Earl Brunner on mon 20 aug 01
I have a theory that the pronunciation Kill for kiln originated from
what the kiln does to my pots.......
(just kidding)
Jennifer F Boyer wrote:
> I know, we've talked about this before, but the archive entries
> weren't helpful.
>
> I've always pronounced the "n" in kiln. I have friends who say
> "kil". A friend just asked me how the "kil" pronunciation
> originated. Any ideas?
>
> Jennifer, who needs a drop of rain, just ONE drop......
> --
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec/
bruec@anv.net
Jennifer F Boyer on mon 20 aug 01
I know, we've talked about this before, but the archive entries
weren't helpful.
I've always pronounced the "n" in kiln. I have friends who say
"kil". A friend just asked me how the "kil" pronunciation
originated. Any ideas?
Jennifer, who needs a drop of rain, just ONE drop......
--
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Jennifer Boyer mailto:jboyer@adelphia.net
Thistle Hill Pottery
95 Powder Horn Glen Rd
Montpelier, VT 05602 USA
802-223-8926
http://www.thistlehillpottery.com/
Never pass on an email warning without checking out this site
for web hoaxes and junk:
http://urbanlegends.about.com/science/urbanlegends/cs/nethoaxes/index.htm
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Cathi Newlin on tue 21 aug 01
I was taught the "n" was silent...
At 08:01 PM 8/20/01, Jennifer F Boyer wrote:
>I know, we've talked about this before, but the archive entries
>weren't helpful.
>
>I've always pronounced the "n" in kiln. I have friends who say
>"kil". A friend just asked me how the "kil" pronunciation
>originated. Any ideas?
>
>Jennifer, who needs a drop of rain, just ONE drop......
>--
>~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
>Jennifer Boyer mailto:jboyer@adelphia.net
>Thistle Hill Pottery
>95 Powder Horn Glen Rd
>Montpelier, VT 05602 USA
>802-223-8926
>http://www.thistlehillpottery.com/
>
>Never pass on an email warning without checking out this site
>for web hoaxes and junk:
>http://urbanlegends.about.com/science/urbanlegends/cs/nethoaxes/index.htm
>~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
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>melpots@pclink.com.
C Newlin, typicalgirl@stinkbalm.com
StinkBalm! www.stinkbalm.com
FAYEvision! www.stinkbalm.com/FAYEvision
www.MidwestBoxerRescues.org
Des Howard on tue 21 aug 01
Jennifer
Our local heritage listed, damp dust, coal fired
brickworks always refer to "burning bricks in the kil' ".
Could be like a rural/regional dropping of "g".
Similar to a city tendency to use "f" instead of "th" at the start of a word.
A twist to that was my country born dad's habit of calling
a shingle makers "froe", a "throw".
Des
ps I spell it "kiln", I say it "kiln".
But then I spell it "tomato", I say "tomarto",
what do I know?
D
Jennifer F Boyer wrote:
> I know, we've talked about this before, but the archive entries
> weren't helpful.
>
> I've always pronounced the "n" in kiln. I have friends who say
> "kil". A friend just asked me how the "kil" pronunciation
> originated. Any ideas?
--
Des & Jan Howard
Lue Pottery
LUE NSW 2850
Australia
Ph/Fax 02 6373 6419
http://www.luepottery.hwy.com.au
Snail Scott on tue 21 aug 01
At 09:01 PM 8/20/01 -0400, you wrote:
>I've always pronounced the "n" in kiln. I have friends who say
>"kil". A friend just asked me how the "kil" pronunciation
>originated. Any ideas?
>
>Jennifer
Given that 'kiln' shares its etymology with words like
'culinary', I have also wondered at the widespread
practice of dropping the voiced 'n'. So, I went to the
Oxford English Dictionary on this.
Roughly synposized, the editors state that in the
period of Middle English, the 'n' became silent in
most [English] districts, though not all. They give
as a corollary the the older spelling of 'mill' as
'miln' (which survives in the surname 'Milner',
along with the more common name 'Miller'.
In my personal experience, slightly more people use
'kiln' that use 'kil', but it's pretty close.
The OED, however, indicates that 'most districts'
dropped the 'n'. (The OED, which is British, does
list both pronunciations, with 'kil' first, as does
my (US) Webster's Dictionary.) I wonder, then, at the
prevalence of the 'kiln' pronunciation. Did the
districts which retained the voiced 'n' have a
disproportionate share of the English pottery
industry? Do they also have more families named
'Milner' than 'Miller'?
Or, is the voiced 'n' an Americanism? (Do you UK
folks say 'kiln' or 'kil' more often?) If it's
mainly a US thing, perhaps it indicates a trend
in early immigration, with proportionately more
British immigrants coming from those minority
'n'-pronouncing districts than from the others?
It wouldn't be the only 'archaic' pronunciation
to have survived here and not in Britain. (I await
more info on British pronunciation, before drawing
any conclusions here. How's the pronunciation score
in other former colonies? Australia? Canada?)
For that matter, is is regionally distributed
within the US? I've mainly lived in the West.
What do folks say in the South? the Northeast?
Just for kicks and grins, here are a few historic
spellings:
cyline, cylene, cyln, cyln, kulne, kylne, kyline,
kilne, kylle, kyll, kil, kill, kell, keele, kiele
Old Norse: kylna Norwegian: kjolne Swedish: kolna
Danish: Kolna (not the proper 'o' in these, by the way)
Welsh: cilin or cil
-Snail
(who says 'kiln')
FireRight on tue 21 aug 01
See http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?kiln . I assume the first
pronunciation listed ("kiln") is the preferred pronunciation. I'm guessing
that "kil" is derived from the word's "Old English" etymology.
Shall we add to the confusion? I've often heard people use the
pronunciation "kil-lun"! :-)
Interestingly, there are only a couple of words that end in "ln", so
there aren't any other examples to go by when deciding on common usage. One
of the others is "Lincoln", which we pronounce as "Linkun" rather than
"Lincol" :-).
The other is "wedeln". Any skiers in the group?
Naturally, we use "kiln". (We'd otherwise have to promote our
products as "controls for kills" or "controls for killun". :-)
-=gw=-
Alexis Evans on tue 21 aug 01
> I was taught the "n" was silent...
>
In 1950 when I made my first little clay figure my Mom and the lady that
fired it said that people who worked in ceramics and knew what they were
talking about always called it "kill". So when I got back to messin' with
clay some 30 years later I was surprised that there were such learned folks
who didn't know how to say it!!! It's how we are raised and the first folks
who talk to us about it that influence how we pronounce it.
I always thought comptroller was weird too!!! Pronounced "controler" and
means the same....pronouncing an "n" that isn't even there AND dropping the
p!!!
Lexxey
Philip Poburka on tue 21 aug 01
..or the 'ell' in "Solder"...
Phil
'ell' vee...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alexis Evans"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: kiln/kil
> > I was taught the "n" was silent...
> >
>
>
>
> In 1950 when I made my first little clay figure my Mom and the lady that
> fired it said that people who worked in ceramics and knew what they were
> talking about always called it "kill". So when I got back to messin' with
> clay some 30 years later I was surprised that there were such learned
folks
> who didn't know how to say it!!! It's how we are raised and the first
folks
> who talk to us about it that influence how we pronounce it.
>
> I always thought comptroller was weird too!!! Pronounced "controler" and
> means the same....pronouncing an "n" that isn't even there AND dropping
the
> p!!!
> Lexxey
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Cyberpotter@AOL.COM on wed 22 aug 01
The English she is a silly language. ;-) Orthographically, anyway. Old joke:
How do you spell "fish"?
Answer: GHOTI
"GH" as is "tough"
"O" as in "women"
"TI" as in "nation"
If you consider Worcester which is pronounced "wooster" and Chalmondaley
which is pronounced "chumley", leaving the "n" off kiln doesn't seem too odd.
If you really want to know of a language where they drop sounds though, you
can't beat Tibetan.
Nancy in Cincinnati - who doesn't speak Tibetan and does pronounce the "n",
but I probably don't count because I learned to read before I learned to
speak ... well that's an exaggeration ... but I also grew up in SE
Massachusetts where everybody talks funny. ;-)
Chris Clarke on wed 22 aug 01
I worked at a place in ohio where they called in the KILM. drove me crazy
: )
chris
temecula, california
chris@ccpots.com
www.ccpots.com
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