Gail Dapogny on thu 23 aug 01
I purchased some of the cement (?) bats at NCECA which are drilled to the
now- standard 10 inches between holes.
On the two Shimpos (old) that I use, the holes in the wheel heads are the
previously used distance of 8 3/8 inches apart. I would like to drill a
new set of holes 10 inches apart in each of the wheel heads. I need
advice: how to drill it accurately, what kind of drill bit, etc. I have a
decent drill ($60 DeWalt) but not anything fancy like a drill press.
Incidentally, the wheel heads cannot be removed; they have been in place
for 40 years and nothing is going to budge them!
Any help is very much appreciated. ----Gail
Gail Dapogny
1154 Olden Road
Ann Arbor, MI 48103-3005
(734) 665-9816
gdapogny@umich.edu
vince pitelka on fri 24 aug 01
> hole goes through a very thin section, so you only need a short screw. If
> you can, get 1/4"-diameter by 1/2"-long (length of the shaft) socket-head
> allen camp screws. If you can't find 1/2" ones, 3/4"-long ones should
work
> fine.
As you probably deduced, that should be 1/4" socket-head Allen cap screws.
Be sure to get an Allen wrench which fits them.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Tom Buck on fri 24 aug 01
Fabienne C, others:
The bats in question are made of concrete (she said), and could be
drilled with a proper masonry bit, so I like your idea better than
drilling the wheelhead for new holes/pins. I drilled my wooden bats for
three wheelheads (all pinned differently) by dilling extra holes in the
bats. Once you make a jig for the holes it is fast.
til later. Peace. TomB.
Tom Buck ) tel: 905-389-2339
(westend Lake Ontario, province of Ontario, Canada).
mailing address: 373 East 43rd Street,
Hamilton ON L8T 3E1 Canada
Matt MacIntire on fri 24 aug 01
Gail,
I have an old Shimpo that had no holes for bat pins. I drilled out mine by
hand. It works fine if you are reasonably careful about drilling the holes.
The tolerances for this are large enough that careful hand work is plenty
accurate.
Here is what I did...
0> Get something to use a scribe to mark the wheel head accurately. Don't
use a pencil; use something that will leave a nice little scratch.
1> Find the EXACT center. To do this, turn on the wheel and draw a teeny
tiny circle near the middle of the wheel head. Eyeball to find the center
of this tiny circle. (Though I can easilly see the center of a wheel while
it is turning, I wasn't able to mark the exact center with the scribe, so I
made a tiny circle instead.) Scratch a little cross (an X) right on the
center point.
2> Carefully draw a neat line EXACTLY through the center of the wheel head.
3> Locate the centers of the pins on this line. Measure out from the
center point half the distance between the pins (5") and mark on the line.
Then measure to be sure the total spacing is exact.
4> use a center punch to carefully locate the center of the hole you will
drill. A center punch makes a slight dent and keeps the drill bit from
wandering off the mark.
5> drill the holes Start with a small drill bit (1/8" or so) and work up
through successive sizes until the hole is the right size to recieve the bat
pins snugly. (or the proper size to be tapped) Be sure to keep the drill
vertical. Get someone else to eyeball the drill for you if you need a
second viewpoint to be sure.
voila! You can now apply for a job in a machine shop! Potters must master
many trades, eh?
Some people tap the hole and cut threads so they can screw the bat pins
right into the head without any nuts. It has been my experience that these
threads frequently seize up. It can often be difficult to remove the bat
pins later. If you want the bat pins ultra secure, and don't mind that you
may have trouble removing them later, then you can cut threads into the
wheel head and screw in your bat pins. If you plan to remove them often,
then you might prefer to use holes exactly large enough for the pins to fit
through.
I often remove my bat pins since I prefer to work right on the wheel head.
So I just drilled a hole large enough for the bat pins to go through. The
holes are only large enough to just admit the bat pins, so nothing wobbles.
I used standard drill sizes and it seems to work fine for me. I secure the
bat pin with a wing nut on the bottom of the wheel head. There has been a
little bit of wear and the holes are a jillionth of in inch too big now.
Sometimes they wiggle just a teeny bit. If I need them really secure, I
tighten the wing nuts a lot. It works for me.
I made everything as accurate as I could and then lived with the minor
variations. A few thousandths of an inch of play doesn't worry me. This
approach has worked well for me. Just take your time and be careful.
good luck...
Matt
Marcia Selsor on fri 24 aug 01
Dear Gail
I have drilled lots of wheel heads with a hand drill. I was thinking of
writing this up for PMI.
First:
get a bat with holes where you want, center it.
Clamp in place.
Get a drill bit the size of these holes and make a divet (slight indent)
by drilling through the bat onto the wheel head. The holes of the bat
should help keep the bit from wiggling around.
Once you have a divet, start with small bits and work up in size.
I used about 6 sizes. Keep your bits lubricated with oil.
Be sure to go in straight.You can do it. It is like opening a pot.
I did the wheel heads at school plus my partners' wheels in the co-op.
It probably isn't great for your wood drill bits but it does work.
Marcia Selsor in Montana
Gail Dapogny wrote:
>
> I purchased some of the cement (?) bats at NCECA which are drilled to the
> now- standard 10 inches between holes.
> On the two Shimpos (old) that I use, the holes in the wheel heads are the
> previously used distance of 8 3/8 inches apart. I would like to drill a
> new set of holes 10 inches apart in each of the wheel heads. I need
> advice: how to drill it accurately, what kind of drill bit, etc. I have a
> decent drill ($60 DeWalt) but not anything fancy like a drill press.
>
> Incidentally, the wheel heads cannot be removed; they have been in place
> for 40 years and nothing is going to budge them!
>
> Any help is very much appreciated. ----Gail
>
> Gail Dapogny
> 1154 Olden Road
> Ann Arbor, MI 48103-3005
> (734) 665-9816
> gdapogny@umich.edu
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
--
Marcia Selsor
selsor@imt.net
http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls
http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls/May2001.html
http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls/Tuscany2001.html
http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls/Gallery.html
Tony Allison on fri 24 aug 01
Dear Gail
Dont try to do this by hand. Theres no way you will get an accurate hole
using a hand drill. I highly reccomend you take the wheel to a machine shop
and have them do it. It may cost you a few bucks but your going to like the
results a lot better.
Tony
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gail Dapogny"
To:
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 10:14 PM
Subject: drilling holes in wheelheads
> I purchased some of the cement (?) bats at NCECA which are drilled to the
> now- standard 10 inches between holes.
> On the two Shimpos (old) that I use, the holes in the wheel heads are the
> previously used distance of 8 3/8 inches apart. I would like to drill a
> new set of holes 10 inches apart in each of the wheel heads. I need
> advice: how to drill it accurately, what kind of drill bit, etc. I have a
> decent drill ($60 DeWalt) but not anything fancy like a drill press.
>
> Incidentally, the wheel heads cannot be removed; they have been in place
> for 40 years and nothing is going to budge them!
>
> Any help is very much appreciated. ----Gail
>
>
>
> Gail Dapogny
> 1154 Olden Road
> Ann Arbor, MI 48103-3005
> (734) 665-9816
> gdapogny@umich.edu
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Charles Moore on fri 24 aug 01
Gail,
I picked up an interesting technique at Eric Struck's workshop this summer
(Orangevale, CA): even though he uses a masonite bat, he does not place the
bat on the holes. Eric explained that when he pulls a really large pot up,
the bats tend to life off the pins. (In addition, I have found the holes
often loosen and cause a chattering as I pot. If the wheel head around the
pins is not absolutely clean and flat, the bat may sit flat.) So Eric
quickly centers a lump of any soft clay that is around and then flatters it
out, leaving finger ridges as he moves out; the resultant flat "plate" of
clay is about a half inch thick. Then he places the bat slightly off-center
(toward him); he then pushes the bat forward to center it (well, at least
approximately).
The clay under the bat holds the bat in place and does away with the need to
use the bat holes altogether. Your plaster bats should work at least as
well as masonite or other composition bats.
This technique might answer you needs without drilling.
Charles Moore
Sacramento, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gail Dapogny"
To:
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 8:14 PM
Subject: drilling holes in wheelheads
> I purchased some of the cement (?) bats at NCECA which are drilled to the
> now- standard 10 inches between holes.
> On the two Shimpos (old) that I use, the holes in the wheel heads are the
> previously used distance of 8 3/8 inches apart. I would like to drill a
> new set of holes 10 inches apart in each of the wheel heads. I need
> advice: how to drill it accurately, what kind of drill bit, etc. I have a
> decent drill ($60 DeWalt) but not anything fancy like a drill press.
>
> Incidentally, the wheel heads cannot be removed; they have been in place
> for 40 years and nothing is going to budge them!
>
> Any help is very much appreciated. ----Gail
>
>
>
> Gail Dapogny
> 1154 Olden Road
> Ann Arbor, MI 48103-3005
> (734) 665-9816
> gdapogny@umich.edu
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Matt MacIntire on fri 24 aug 01
I don't mean to start a flame war about this, but I gotta disagree with
Tony. Gail could do it by hand if she is reasonably careful. Besides, she
said she couldn't get the wheel head off to take it to a machine shop.
What is the absolute worst case: she has a couple harmless holes in the
wheel head of her ancient Shimpo. No worries...
I have drilled bat pin holes by hand on three wheel heads. Just me and my
drill using a scribe, a ruler and my trusty eyeball. I know others who have
also done this by hand. It is actually quite amazing how accurate our eyes
can be if you train them and trust them. For example, sight down a board
and you can see very small deviations from a straight edge.
If one is careful, the slop between the bat pins and the holes in the bat is
much greater than the error in drilling the holes. Sure, a machine shop
would be more precisely accurate, but these are potters wheels, not lathes
to make parts for the space shuttle.
best wishes
Matt
PS to Gail:
I'm sorry about the formatting of my last post about this. It looked better
before I hit send. Outlook has a mind of its own sometimes. Apparently
Outlook reformatted my message when it saw the way I had numbered my list
using
1>
2>
etc.
I think you can decipher my intent. If not, let me know and I'll send you a
document that is formatted more clearly.
You can do it!! Good luck.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Allison [mailto:anthony@MLECMN.NET]
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 6:36 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: drilling holes in wheelheads
Dear Gail
Dont try to do this by hand. Theres no way you will get an accurate hole
using a hand drill. I highly reccomend you take the wheel to a machine shop
and have them do it. It may cost you a few bucks but your going to like the
results a lot better.
Tony
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gail Dapogny"
To:
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 10:14 PM
Subject: drilling holes in wheelheads
> I purchased some of the cement (?) bats at NCECA which are drilled to
> the
> now- standard 10 inches between holes.
> On the two Shimpos (old) that I use, the holes in the wheel heads are the
> previously used distance of 8 3/8 inches apart. I would like to drill a
> new set of holes 10 inches apart in each of the wheel heads. I need
> advice: how to drill it accurately, what kind of drill bit, etc. I have a
> decent drill ($60 DeWalt) but not anything fancy like a drill press.
>
> Incidentally, the wheel heads cannot be removed; they have been in
> place for 40 years and nothing is going to budge them!
>
> Any help is very much appreciated. ----Gail
>
>
>
> Gail Dapogny
> 1154 Olden Road
> Ann Arbor, MI 48103-3005
> (734) 665-9816
> gdapogny@umich.edu
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Fabienne Micheline Cassman on fri 24 aug 01
At 11:14 PM 08/23/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>I purchased some of the cement (?) bats at NCECA which are drilled to the
>now- standard 10 inches between holes.
>On the two Shimpos (old) that I use, the holes in the wheel heads are the
>previously used distance of 8 3/8 inches apart. I would like to drill a
>new set of holes 10 inches apart in each of the wheel heads. I need
>advice: how to drill it accurately, what kind of drill bit, etc. I have a
>decent drill ($60 DeWalt) but not anything fancy like a drill press.
Hello Gail,
Have you thought about drilling the bats? Mimic their holes just at 8 3/8
inches apart. I don't know if it's possible, but it may be easier than
drilling the wheel head. Has anyone here done this?
Cheers,
Fabienne
--
Milky Way Ceramics http://www.milkywayceramics.com/
Yes, I have learned from my mistakes...
I can reproduce them exactly.
Matt MacIntire on fri 24 aug 01
Hi Charles,
I am not sure why am posting so much on this topic, but here comes another
one... Charles, your post made me want to mention a couple things.
I agree that the method you mention is mighty handy. I used to use an
approach similar to what you describe. Securing the bats with a clay
"plate" works well and is totally non invasive. This is a great trick to
have up you sleeve if you go somewhere and there are no bat pins, or the
holes in the bat don't line up or something. The only thing I dislike about
this method is that you can not effectively put the bat back onto the wheel
head and have the pot run true. (At least, I've never figured out anything
that works) With bat pins, you can take off the bat, and replace it on the
wheel later. You may want to trim or add a coil and throw more height or
whatever... Another minor irritation to bats on clay is that unless you are
quite careful when removing the bat, you have to dress up the clay cylinder
(plate) between bats. All things considered I much prefer bat pins. I am
glad I know how to use a clay ring when the need arises though.
One more thought... To get around the problem of bats lifting off the pins
when using large amounts of clay, I use a related trick. Before you place
the bat on the wheel, spread around a gob of thick slop on the wheel head.
Then press the bat into this gooo. This doesn't add enough height to
interfere with the bat pins, but the suction holds the bat down quite
firmly. In fact, to get the bat off, you'll have to pry it up with a knife
or thin wooden tool. This is kind of an intermediary approach that combines
bat pins and the clay plate approach. I only bother with this if I am
working on something large and the bat keeps lifting off while I am
centering.
Matt
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Moore [mailto:camoore33@EARTHLINK.NET]
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 9:15 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: drilling holes in wheelheads
Gail,
I picked up an interesting technique at Eric Struck's workshop this summer
(Orangevale, CA): even though he uses a masonite bat, he does not place the
bat on the holes. Eric explained that when he pulls a really large pot up,
the bats tend to life off the pins. (In addition, I have found the holes
often loosen and cause a chattering as I pot. If the wheel head around the
pins is not absolutely clean and flat, the bat may sit flat.) So Eric
quickly centers a lump of any soft clay that is around and then flatters it
out, leaving finger ridges as he moves out; the resultant flat "plate" of
clay is about a half inch thick. Then he places the bat slightly off-center
(toward him); he then pushes the bat forward to center it (well, at least
approximately).
The clay under the bat holds the bat in place and does away with the need to
use the bat holes altogether. Your plaster bats should work at least as
well as masonite or other composition bats.
This technique might answer you needs without drilling.
Charles Moore
Sacramento, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gail Dapogny"
To:
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 8:14 PM
Subject: drilling holes in wheelheads
> I purchased some of the cement (?) bats at NCECA which are drilled to
> the
> now- standard 10 inches between holes.
> On the two Shimpos (old) that I use, the holes in the wheel heads are the
> previously used distance of 8 3/8 inches apart. I would like to drill a
> new set of holes 10 inches apart in each of the wheel heads. I need
> advice: how to drill it accurately, what kind of drill bit, etc. I have a
> decent drill ($60 DeWalt) but not anything fancy like a drill press.
>
> Incidentally, the wheel heads cannot be removed; they have been in
> place for 40 years and nothing is going to budge them!
>
> Any help is very much appreciated. ----Gail
>
>
>
> Gail Dapogny
> 1154 Olden Road
> Ann Arbor, MI 48103-3005
> (734) 665-9816
> gdapogny@umich.edu
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
tomsawyer on fri 24 aug 01
Gail,
What I did a few years ago when faced with this situation was (1) to measure
the width of my wheel head (2) use a compass and cardboard to draw a circle
= to the diameter of your wheel head. (3) place the cardboard cut out over
the new bat and punch holes in the cardboard to match the holes already
existing in your new bats (4) attach the cardboard cut out with holes onto
your wheel head and drill away.
Tom Sawyer
tsawyer@cfl.rr.com
vince pitelka on fri 24 aug 01
We drilled bat-pin holes in all our Shimpos with a hand drill. As others
have stated, it just requires reasonable care and a steady hand. Just
follow Marcia Selsor's directions. Buy or borrow a masonite or plastic bat
that has bat-pin holes going all the way through it, and center it carefully
on your wheelhead and clamp it in place. Get a drill bit that exactly fits
the bat pin holes, put it in your electric drill, and use that to create a
small dimple in the wheelhead at the two bat-pin holes. Remove the bat, and
replace the large drill bit with a 1/8" drill bit, and using the dimple as a
guide, drill through the wheelhead. Use the 1/8" hole as a guide and drill
out to 1/4". Get some 1/2"-long (length of the shaft portion) 1/4"
coarse-thread socket-head allen cap screws and some coarse-thread 1/4" wing
nuts, and install them in your wheelhead. Most of the big home improvement
centers like Lowe's and Home Depot have a display which features some fairly
esoteric hardware, and in that display you should have no trouble finding
the socket-head cap screws. When you use such screws on a pre-drilled Brent
wheelhead the hole goes through a cast boss on the underside of the
wheelhead, and it requires a 1"-long screw. With the Shimpo wheelhead, the
hole goes through a very thin section, so you only need a short screw. If
you can, get 1/4"-diameter by 1/2"-long (length of the shaft) socket-head
allen camp screws. If you can't find 1/2" ones, 3/4"-long ones should work
fine.
Good luck -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Jane Vernon on sat 25 aug 01
I have a Shimpo wheel with no holes for bats. I have devised my own
method of attaching bats. On the underneath of each bat I draw a circle
the exact size of the wheelhead. I then screw four little blocks of
wood up close to the line at 90 degree intervals. The bats then fit
snugly onto the wheel. The blocks have two screws each and to make sure
of a good fit I leave off the last screw of the last block, settle the
bat on the wheel and position the last block so it fits well before
securing the last screw. One or two bats have somehow worked loose over
the years, but it's a simple remedy to attach another block.
Jane
http://www.otbo.demon.co.uk
Liz Gowen on sat 25 aug 01
Gail, I use an adapter bat when I switch from my shimpo to my dynac
wheel. One has 10" pin set the other 6". The bat I believe is one of
the plastibats and was premade but it doesn't look like it would be
hard to duplicate.
It has the 1 set of holes drilled to fit the wheel head you need
it on . It then has a set of pins that were drilled and perhaps
epoxied to secure fit to accept the bats you have. The pins have
been cut off flush with the bat on the bottom. I just put on this
adapter when I switch wheels and keep the bats the same size. Think
I would feel better drilling into a 10 to 20 dollar plastibat than
my wheel head.
Liz Gowen
> > I purchased some of the cement (?) bats at NCECA which are
drilled to
> > the
> > now- standard 10 inches between holes.
> > On the two Shimpos (old) that I use, the holes in the wheel
heads are the 8 3/4
Rick Hugel on sat 25 aug 01
Drilling the bats sounds like a good idea (why mess with the wheel; mess
with the variables[bats] ) - if removing the old pins can't be done; they
might be as rusted in as the wheel head sounds to be to the shaft. I
haven't done that with plaster bats, but have with plywood ones. And the
suggestion of spreading some slop between the wheel head and the bats is
right on.
Rick
>At 11:14 PM 08/23/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>>I purchased some of the cement (?) bats at NCECA which are drilled to the
>>now- standard 10 inches between holes.
>>On the two Shimpos (old) that I use, the holes in the wheel heads are the
>>previously used distance of 8 3/8 inches apart. I would like to drill a
>>new set of holes 10 inches apart in each of the wheel heads. I need
>>advice: how to drill it accurately, what kind of drill bit, etc. I have a
>>decent drill ($60 DeWalt) but not anything fancy like a drill press.
>
>Hello Gail,
>
>Have you thought about drilling the bats? Mimic their holes just at 8 3/8
>inches apart. I don't know if it's possible, but it may be easier than
>drilling the wheel head. Has anyone here done this?
>
>Cheers,
>
>Fabienne
>--
>Milky Way Ceramics http://www.milkywayceramics.com/
>
> Yes, I have learned from my mistakes...
> I can reproduce them exactly.
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
Joseph Herbert on sun 26 aug 01
First, for everyone who used bat pins: Buy stainless steel!! Quarter inch
stainless socket head screws cost little more than ordinary steel ones and
appropriate stainless steel wing nuts are also available (65 cents maybe).
Much of the looseness of bats is from the erosion of bat pins as layer after
layer of rust is removed over time. Available at most hardware stores.
Second, the Japanese handbook of pottery shows bats secured to the wheel
using cleats (as described by some) and a wedge driven the do the holding.
In this case three cleats and one thin wedge hold the bat in place. The
wedge must always be applied to the same cleat to recover the centering.
You can now use your potter's hammer for something other than failures.
Joseph Herbert
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