Paul Lewing on mon 27 aug 01
on 8/27/01 9:35 PM, mel jacobson at melpots@PCLINK.COM wrote:
> church folks are often the worst...often.
> they think they have a higher social order.
Harold Balasz, an incredibly prolific artist in many media from Spokane,
Washington, who has done hundreds of commissions and dozens of them for
churches, says you shouldn't work for any body but the Catholics and the
Jews. They assume they'll have to pay an artist. All the others think
you'll do it free for the good of your soul.
Personally, though I've done close to 1000 commissions in the last 15 years,
and really enjoy the process (usually) I've only ever done two jobs for
churches, so I'm in no position to comment.
Paul Lewing, Seattle
Earl Brunner on mon 27 aug 01
I have kept this note from 1979 that I make myself (and if I don't, my
wife does) read every time I'm tempted to take a special order job.
"Earl Brunner,
We're basically pleased with the lamp base, but since you're firing
again this next week, I'd appreciate re-glazing in more of a brown
rather than so gray.
I'd like the brown bands wider so there's not so much gray space i the
middle. I'd like 2 or 3 brown tones, as in the vase I've left. I'd
also really like the speckled look on the plain part so it isn't so white.
The finish is a bit too shiny-can it be a matte glaze?
Appreciate your patience with me; any questions please give me a call."
Keep in mind that the customer approached me in the first place because
they liked my work, and my glaze palette and we looked at examples
before settling on the one that I fired for them. This was 14x20 inches
and drilled in the bottom for the cord. This pot was never going to be
anything but a lamp base.
Jennifer F Boyer wrote:
> Hmm,
> Funny that I too had a run in with a church: Unitarians. I'd
> made a teapot for them to give an administrator who was leaving.
> Everyone loved it: they'd pursuaded me to draw (freehand) the
> church itself on the teapot. They had a drawing for me to use
> as a guide. A bitch, but it was the Unitarians, you know?
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec/
bruec@anv.net
mel jacobson on mon 27 aug 01
hard stuff to deal with, and i have had
some tough problems to deal with.
for example:
a church called. locals, nice folks. wanted a complete
communion set, candle sticks..big clay ones.
fonts, all.
i gave them a good bid price of 500 bucks.
being nice...church and all.
did it a few days after carpel tunnel surgery.
they wanted it for easter.
well, did it, fired it..and it was perfect. just like they
ordered.
hmm, one gal did not like it..decided they should have
black. then all of a sudden they all wanted black.
so, i did black...temmoku.
well, the temmoku went crystals with red. (just what i was
working on)
nope, they sure did not want that.
so, did the third set.
then they decided on silver.
fired me.
i sued them.
got the money...that is what small claims court is for.
you cannot back down.
church folks are often the worst...often.
they think they have a higher social order.
asked for 700. got it.
they did the same thing to the weaver. vestments.
she got her money too.
i have a 2x4 with a big spike through it sitting in my
studio. if i ever take a commission from anyone again, sharlene
is supposed to hit me square in the face with the nail end of the
2x4. no one needs money that badly.
many, many people do not have a clue what a hand crafts person
goes through. they think we are `marshall fields`. just take
it back. not.
craft folks gotta be careful. some think they can jack us around,
so do not let them.
mel.
i stuck great big bowls on top of the candle holders (epoxy) and called
them `center pieces`...sold them for hundred bucks each.
nice. sold all of them.
and made the patens and pitchers just like my regular plates and pitchers.
they just went back to stock...sold them all too.
gotta think ahead.
From:
Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
web site: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
Susan Fox-Hirschmann on mon 27 aug 01
I take many custom orders thruout the year, and require payment up
front....but they are usually tough to deal with.
And i can commiserate with you mel.
I have them sign my form saying they recognize the one of a kind nature of
the work, that all sizes, shapes, colors, etc are approximate and that they
understand that are willing to accept the order, based upon that. as a
result, i have not had too many problems with people returning etc. but you
are right, mel, one has to weigh
whether such orders are worth the aggravation.
I usually charge about 50% more for custom orders, especially with color
swatches, and feel that if they go for that, chances are they are willing to
accept the piece. I require that the order be totally prepaid, so that i
don't have to try and collect from them when the piece is done, and ready to
ship. But i always do one extra one just to "cover my butt" incase one
doesn't make it!
on the other hand, i am trying to stay in business, so it is hard for me to
say no,unless i am absolutely sure that it is a color that i cannot get, or
a piece i will not make, or something, that i aesthetically feel will look
awful!
then, on the other hand, i like paying my bills.
but then there are always the commissions from hell!
susan
>From: mel jacobson
>Reply-To: Ceramic Arts Discussion List
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: returns and commissions
>Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 16:35:14 -0500
>
>hard stuff to deal with, and i have had
>some tough problems to deal with.
>for example:
>
>a church called. locals, nice folks. wanted a complete
>communion set, candle sticks..big clay ones.
>fonts, all.
>i gave them a good bid price of 500 bucks.
>being nice...church and all.
>did it a few days after carpel tunnel surgery.
>they wanted it for easter.
>well, did it, fired it..and it was perfect. just like they
>ordered.
>hmm, one gal did not like it..decided they should have
>black. then all of a sudden they all wanted black.
>so, i did black...temmoku.
>well, the temmoku went crystals with red. (just what i was
>working on)
>nope, they sure did not want that.
>so, did the third set.
>then they decided on silver.
>fired me.
>i sued them.
>got the money...that is what small claims court is for.
>you cannot back down.
>church folks are often the worst...often.
>they think they have a higher social order.
>asked for 700. got it.
>they did the same thing to the weaver. vestments.
>she got her money too.
>
>i have a 2x4 with a big spike through it sitting in my
>studio. if i ever take a commission from anyone again, sharlene
>is supposed to hit me square in the face with the nail end of the
>2x4. no one needs money that badly.
>
>many, many people do not have a clue what a hand crafts person
>goes through. they think we are `marshall fields`. just take
>it back. not.
>
>craft folks gotta be careful. some think they can jack us around,
>so do not let them.
>mel.
>i stuck great big bowls on top of the candle holders (epoxy) and called
>them `center pieces`...sold them for hundred bucks each.
>nice. sold all of them.
>and made the patens and pitchers just like my regular plates and pitchers.
>they just went back to stock...sold them all too.
>gotta think ahead.
>From:
>Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
>web site: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
_________________________________________________________________
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Les Crimp on mon 27 aug 01
Mel -
Amen, Brother!
Les Crimp on that Island in the Pacific.
lcrimp@home.com
Jennifer F Boyer on mon 27 aug 01
Hmm,
Funny that I too had a run in with a church: Unitarians. I'd
made a teapot for them to give an administrator who was leaving.
Everyone loved it: they'd pursuaded me to draw (freehand) the
church itself on the teapot. They had a drawing for me to use
as a guide. A bitch, but it was the Unitarians, you know? So a
year later there's a new director and they come to me to do the
same teapot with picture for someone else who's leaving. I
groan, remember "UNITARIANS" and do it again, under silent
duress. They don't like it. Want something else......I scratch
my head, since all but the new director had seen the first one
and they were very much alike. BUT my motto is "the customer is
always right even if he/she is wrong". They ended up buying a
hanging bird bath I had made as a one of a kind piece. It had
been kicking around the studio forever. It was also more
expensive than the teapot. That was good. The bad part was
having a teapot kicking around the studio with the Unitarian
Church on the side......I was young. I'm much better at saying
no (to weird special orders, not to returns), now that I have a
lot of gray hair.....
Jennifer
mel jacobson wrote:
>
> hard stuff to deal with, and i have had
> some tough problems to deal with.
> for example:
>
> a church called. locals, nice folks. wanted a complete
> communion set, candle sticks..big clay ones.
> fonts, all.
> i gave them a good bid price of 500 bucks.
> being nice...church and all.
> did it a few days after carpel tunnel surgery.
> they wanted it for easter.
> well, did it, fired it..and it was perfect. just like they
> ordered.
> hmm, one gal did not like it..decided they should have
> black. then all of a sudden they all wanted black.
> so, i did black...temmoku.
> well, the temmoku went crystals with red. (just what i was
> working on)
> nope, they sure did not want that.
> so, did the third set.
> then they decided on silver.
> fired me.
> i sued them.
> got the money...that is what small claims court is for.
> you cannot back down.
> church folks are often the worst...often.
> they think they have a higher social order.
> asked for 700. got it.
> they did the same thing to the weaver. vestments.
> she got her money too.
>
> i have a 2x4 with a big spike through it sitting in my
> studio. if i ever take a commission from anyone again, sharlene
> is supposed to hit me square in the face with the nail end of the
> 2x4. no one needs money that badly.
>
> many, many people do not have a clue what a hand crafts person
> goes through. they think we are `marshall fields`. just take
> it back. not.
>
> craft folks gotta be careful. some think they can jack us around,
> so do not let them.
> mel.
> i stuck great big bowls on top of the candle holders (epoxy) and called
> them `center pieces`...sold them for hundred bucks each.
> nice. sold all of them.
> and made the patens and pitchers just like my regular plates and pitchers.
> they just went back to stock...sold them all too.
> gotta think ahead.
> From:
> Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
> web site: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
--
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Jennifer Boyer mailto:jboyer@adelphia.net
Thistle Hill Pottery
95 Powder Horn Glen Rd
Montpelier, VT 05602 USA
802-223-8926
http://www.thistlehillpottery.com/
Never pass on an email warning without checking out this site
for web hoaxes and junk:
http://urbanlegends.about.com/science/urbanlegends/cs/nethoaxes/index.htm
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
MaryBeth Bishop on tue 28 aug 01
Okay. I have two things to throw in here. One is a question, one an
observation.
Returns: What if you allow exchanges? Not on commissioned work but on
regular sales. I often tell people that if they tire of a piece or whatever,
I'll give them credit toward an exchange. No one ever takes me up on it but
it feels good as a part of the transaction. I particularly do this with
friends. It makes me comfortable.
Commissions: I never take these. I think a commissioned work is hexed.
Even if I try to do something someone thought they would like I go through
agonies of failure. I just have too strong resistance to outside control or
whatever and I unconsciously undermine my own efforts. Still, I have a
studio neighbor downtown who made a commissioned dinnerware set for a friend.
Worked on it for ages. Every time I asked how it was going, she smiled and
said "great". He loved it and now she is making another one for someone
else. It is "her thing". Can't knock it.
My take on all this? Whatever makes you happy and never what makes you
miserable.
Mary Beth Bishop
Fabienne Micheline Cassman on tue 28 aug 01
Greetings,
I understand the frustration you had to go through. It takes a lot of work
and patience to deal with situations of this kind.
At 04:35 PM 08/27/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>many, many people do not have a clue what a hand crafts person
>goes through. they think we are `marshall fields`. just take
>it back. not.
Would it help perhaps to educate the people a bit by explaining to them
what goes into the process before you agree to the work? I remember
someone mentioning they had made a board with pictures illustrating how
they made their pots. I have also noticed that when people see things,
they can feel the experience better than with words. It may fall on deaf
hears or "blind eyes," but then maybe not. At the same time, it could give
you an idea of who you are really dealing with. I know if someone was hand
knitting a sweater for me, I would think about it twice to request a
specific color knowing what they have to go through if I change my mind; I
do knit by the way :)
>craft folks gotta be careful. some think they can jack us around,
>so do not let them.
Here is one element I emphasize all the time at work although people and
everyone always looks at me funny. I'm a firm advocate of written
contract; it makes things clear and defines tasks/responsibilities/terms of
both parties. They don't have to be convoluted. There is a book out there
by Tad Crawfort, "Business and Legal Forms for Fine Artists." One of the
forms in there can be modified to your needs, "Contract to Commission an
Artwork." You still can be nice and offer a price. Go as far as showing
them the discount you are giving them on the contract so they know you are
offering them a deal whether or not they get it, but you have to be
compensated for your work. Like you said, you're not Marshall Fields.
One more thing, I don't believe that it is a fair conclusion that it was
because they were church people that it happened; aren't we all "church
people?" We all do believe in something and congregate to worship it, be
it a church or a health club or a clay studio. Anyway, one experience
hardly constitutes a rule.
My 2 cents,
Fabienne :)
--
Milky Way Ceramics http://www.milkywayceramics.com/
Yes, I have learned from my mistakes...
I can reproduce them exactly.
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