Karen Sullivan on wed 5 sep 01
Jan....
For coloured clay...I dry the clay to bone dry...
then slake the clay...i.e. drop it in water to dissolve at
which point I add about .05% mason stain...this way it
blends well...otherwise you get streaks of color.
So then you need to re-condition the clay until it is
workable again.
Depending on the temperature you fire... makes a big difference and
will influence
the colors...high fire...blues/browns/greens...
low fire...much more of a range. All much more muted blended
with the clay...than suspended in a glaze.
Get some canvas to work on...that way the mess is transportable
..not staining tables...
Have fun...laminate slabs...
Try porcelain as well...
bamboo karen
on 9/5/01 7:26 PM, Jan Zender-Romick at talkingdogstudio@HOTMAIL.COM wrote:
> Hello,
> Another lurker comes out of the shadows and joins the parade!
> I am going to be teaching an adult clay class focussing on glazing and
> decorating techniques. Some of my students have been asking me about trying
> colored clay. I've never done it myself, but if they are willing to
> experiment, I thought I'd give them the opportunity.
> I'd like some feedback on some points:
> I thought I'd start out with white earthenware clay and use a few different
> Mason stains to add color to small batches. The clay we use is bought in 25
> lb bags, so it's already mixed. I don't know how much stain to use, enough
> to give the clay some good color, I guess. Actually, the wet clay is rather
> gray, so it could be a problem figuring out what good color looks like. I
> realize that to make this more systematic I would have to do some line blend
> tests to get the right amount, but maybe my students will get into it and
> want to do that themselves. Does anyone see any problem with this scenario
> so far? Is is lunacy to try this out on my class without trying it myself
> first?
> I did have a couple of questions,
> 1) Do we need to wear gloves whenever we handle colored clay if it is made
> with Mason stains?
> 2) Does it make a mess and stain the canvas covered tables? Should I think
> of protecting the tables?
> If anyone has tried this already and has some pointers on what colors work
> well, (or if some just stink), or ideas on how much stain I'd have to add to
> a pound of clay, I'd appreciate it!
> I have Paulus Berensohn's book, maybe I should take a look at that....
> Thanks everybody.
>
> Jan Z
> In beautiful late summer Michigan
>
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Jan Zender-Romick on wed 5 sep 01
Hello,
Another lurker comes out of the shadows and joins the parade!
I am going to be teaching an adult clay class focussing on glazing and
decorating techniques. Some of my students have been asking me about trying
colored clay. I've never done it myself, but if they are willing to
experiment, I thought I'd give them the opportunity.
I'd like some feedback on some points:
I thought I'd start out with white earthenware clay and use a few different
Mason stains to add color to small batches. The clay we use is bought in 25
lb bags, so it's already mixed. I don't know how much stain to use, enough
to give the clay some good color, I guess. Actually, the wet clay is rather
gray, so it could be a problem figuring out what good color looks like. I
realize that to make this more systematic I would have to do some line blend
tests to get the right amount, but maybe my students will get into it and
want to do that themselves. Does anyone see any problem with this scenario
so far? Is is lunacy to try this out on my class without trying it myself
first?
I did have a couple of questions,
1) Do we need to wear gloves whenever we handle colored clay if it is made
with Mason stains?
2) Does it make a mess and stain the canvas covered tables? Should I think
of protecting the tables?
If anyone has tried this already and has some pointers on what colors work
well, (or if some just stink), or ideas on how much stain I'd have to add to
a pound of clay, I'd appreciate it!
I have Paulus Berensohn's book, maybe I should take a look at that....
Thanks everybody.
Jan Z
In beautiful late summer Michigan
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
Marcia Selsor on thu 6 sep 01
I had a student who mixed mason stains into porcelain in small amounts.
Then she made beautiful laminated slabs with many colors. She didn't use
a whole pound at a time but small amounts like 1/8 of a pound. She made
a thumb hole, put the stain in the started to blend it. I agree with
Karen that you could get streaky color. I think you should have those
students who are interested to each mix up a few colors and share them
among their group. Keep them wrapped up in baggies.
Inlaying with colored slips might be an option. It is a better way to
mix in the stains..into a wetter slip and then stiffen it up a little on
plaster. Clean canvas is a necessity.
Marcia Selsor in Montana where we had rain for the first time since July 22!!!
Jan Zender-Romick wrote:
>
> Hello,
> Another lurker comes out of the shadows and joins the parade!
> I am going to be teaching an adult clay class focussing on glazing and
> decorating techniques. Some of my students have been asking me about trying
> colored clay. I've never done it myself, but if they are willing to
> experiment, I thought I'd give them the opportunity.
> I'd like some feedback on some points:
> I thought I'd start out with white earthenware clay and use a few different
> Mason stains to add color to small batches. The clay we use is bought in 25
> lb bags, so it's already mixed. I don't know how much stain to use, enough
> to give the clay some good color, I guess. Actually, the wet clay is rather
> gray, so it could be a problem figuring out what good color looks like. I
> realize that to make this more systematic I would have to do some line blend
> tests to get the right amount, but maybe my students will get into it and
> want to do that themselves. Does anyone see any problem with this scenario
> so far? Is is lunacy to try this out on my class without trying it myself
> first?
> I did have a couple of questions,
> 1) Do we need to wear gloves whenever we handle colored clay if it is made
> with Mason stains?
> 2) Does it make a mess and stain the canvas covered tables? Should I think
> of protecting the tables?
> If anyone has tried this already and has some pointers on what colors work
> well, (or if some just stink), or ideas on how much stain I'd have to add to
> a pound of clay, I'd appreciate it!
> I have Paulus Berensohn's book, maybe I should take a look at that....
> Thanks everybody.
>
> Jan Z
> In beautiful late summer Michigan
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
--
Marcia Selsor
selsor@imt.net
http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls
http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls/May2001.html
http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls/Tuscany2001.html
http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls/Gallery.html
Chris Campbell on thu 6 sep 01
Hi -
I have worked with colored porcelain for years and will try to give
some answers.
" Is is lunacy to try this out on my class without trying it myself first?"
The first time I tried coloring clay it was in a class where no one,
including the instructor had done it before. We knew this going in so
everyone felt the fun of the adventure.
" Do we need to wear gloves whenever we handle colored clay if it is made
with Mason stains?" YES
" Does it make a mess and stain the canvas covered tables?"
YES, but we were able to scrub it all clean. You could put down some
protective cloths as insurance.
' how much stain to add to a pound of clay"
The Mason company will be glad to help you with this. They will tell you
which stains are designed to be used in a clay body and they have a wonderful
color chart of all their stains. Since this is such a time consuming messy
job, I generally add the maximum stain they recommend, then tone it down
later. This is sometimes as high as 25%.
Here is how we did it in the class with good results.
Every student was assigned to mix one color into a pound of clay. We mixed
the stain with a bit of water right in the plastic bag it came in. Then we
mixed it into the clay weighed straight from the bag. If you take the time
you can mix it to a consistent color. Then everyone took a bit of each color
and played.
We made pattern blocks as seen in the "Femo" clay books...we mixed colors to
get new ones....we diluted the colors with increasing amounts of white to see
fades....some slapped the patterns onto freshly thrown pots of the same base
clay ....we all just had fun, made stuff, then fired it, glazed it and fired
again.
After a bit no one was even remembering to take notes ......but all of us had
a blast ... learned a lot ... and some ( like me ) fell in love with the
possibilities and have never looked back.
If everyone knows that you are all exploring, you should be able to
have a fun class.
Chris Campbell - in North Carolina - watching my neighbor's cat stalk the
butterflies in the garden ... they seem to be his mid day snack.
vince pitelka on thu 6 sep 01
> " Do we need to wear gloves whenever we handle colored clay if it is made
> with Mason stains?"
I am afraid I must disagree with my friend Chris Campbell here. There is no
reason to wear gloves when handling colored clays, whether they are colored
with Mason stains or oxides. The particles are insoluble, and are far too
coarse for any skin absorption. There is no danger fron that at all. I
have been handling clays colored with Mason stains and oxides for twenty
years. There is no danger that I know of, other than the ones we should be
aware of with all clays and all ceramic materials (primarily inhalation and
ingestion).
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Nevin Murtha on fri 7 sep 01
I would suggest that you get MSDS sheets for the oxides or stains you intend
to use. Although inhalation is the most sensitive route of inhalation for
metallic oxides, absorption can be a significant route (per Chemical Hazards
of the Workplace and NIOSH Pocket Guide to Chemical Hazards). In addition,
people are frequently allergic to nickel. Cobalt oxide can also produce
allergic reactions on skin. Why not use gloves? If they have enough
sensitivity for surgery we should be able to use them when working with
clay.
Nevin Murtha
n.murtha@worldnet.att.net
-----Original Message-----
From: vince pitelka
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: Thursday, September 06, 2001 9:26 PM
Subject: Re: colored clay with mason stains
>> " Do we need to wear gloves whenever we handle colored clay if it is made
>> with Mason stains?"
>
>I am afraid I must disagree with my friend Chris Campbell here. There is
no
>reason to wear gloves when handling colored clays, whether they are colored
>with Mason stains or oxides. The particles are insoluble, and are far too
>coarse for any skin absorption. There is no danger fron that at all. I
>have been handling clays colored with Mason stains and oxides for twenty
>years. There is no danger that I know of, other than the ones we should be
>aware of with all clays and all ceramic materials (primarily inhalation and
>ingestion).
>Best wishes -
>- Vince
>
>Vince Pitelka
>Appalachian Center for Crafts
>Tennessee Technological University
>1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
>Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
>615/597-5376
>Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
>615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
>http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
___
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Jan Zender-Romick on fri 7 sep 01
Hi All,
First, I want to thank you for your responses, Clayart is such a wonderful
group and resource.
Second, at the urging of my husband, who is a geochemist (kindof handy,
huh?), I called the Mason company with the question "Should I wear gloves
when I use stains for colored clay?" Their response was that it was
optional, mostly from the standpoint that it might stain the hands, but
there was not a health hazard of soaking through the skin per se.
I am going to go ahead and order some stains and we'll go for it! And when I
place the order I will be sure to get the MSDS's so we can have the
paperwork on file for everyone's benefit. I think I will let people in my
class use their own discretion as to whether to wear gloves or not. It just
seemed to me to take some of the pleasure out of the whole clay experience
to be wearing latex, and besides my hands get all pruny after wearing gloves
for too long.
I'm sure that you have all explored the subject of material safety many
times already and don't mean to revisit anything that might be overworked,
but I just have a few comments.
I took my first pottery class in college over 20 years ago, and caught the
bug. For only 3 semesters, I got a pretty good education, but I had to set
aside my clay dreams for 20 years while I paid off my student loans, helped
my husband get through graduate school, moved across the country, and kept
the household going. Many of you can say, yeah, been there. So I am finally
getting my act together and have bought a house with a basement big enough
for a little studio. I am also a kiln tech at a local community art center,
and teach a class now and then.
Between the time I learned pottery and today, a lot has been learned about
safety issues. Now instead of mixing glaze with my hands (what I consider a
rather sensuous and almost necessary experience to get the consistency
right), I know that there are dangerous chemicals in there that can be
absorbed by the skin. I also have to wear a dust mask and keep the dust
level down (I remember watching my high school ceramics class mixing dry
clay in the classroom and they of course did not use such precautions,
shudder the thought at that cloud of dust in that room). And now we have to
be concerned with glaze stability, so we have to know a lot more about our
recipes than we used to.
I could go on (however I'll spare you). I am glad that there is more
knowledge and recommendations and safety equipment out there, and I am
careful to pass on good habits to my students. However I sometimes need to
know if there is scientific proof behind some of these precautions, and not
just hysteria. Like the current craze for having all of our soaps be
antibacterial, sometimes I wonder if we go just a little too far with safety
precautions. I just want to be sensible, so I can still enjoy the clay
without getting too worked up about what is going to kill me if I touch it.
I do have some experiences that tell me that I should take some of these
issues seriously. I will pass on some anecdotes. I remember that back in
college, our star student had to quit ceramics because of some allergies to
the clay dust. Now that we know more, maybe we could have helped her by
keeping the dust level down, or she could have worn a mask, or maybe a
better ventilation system would have helped. It could have been the silica,
maybe mold, or maybe she just had supersensitive allergies and none of these
remedies would have worked.
I remember that sometimes students would get a rash from working in the
clay. I don't know if this was dry skin, or mold, but it is important for me
as a teacher to remember that certain individuals are more prone to problems
that others take for granted.
We had a potter in our group at my art center here in Michigan who did have
extreme allergies to a number of substances. That, combined with lack of
knowledge about handling wet glazes properly, led to a bout of nerve damage
from some manganese glazes.
So we do have to be careful! I don't want to come down with a bad reaction
to something that could have easily be prevented. But I also don't want to
be so wrapped up in safety equipment and unscientific warnings that I miss
some of the pleasure of the experience.
Thanks for your help. One of the daunting things about clay as an art form
is that there is so much to know! It is such a joy to have a forum of
generous people who share their knowledge.
Yours,
Jan Z
(With my two samoyeds at my feet helping me write this message.)
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vince pitelka on fri 7 sep 01
> I would suggest that you get MSDS sheets for the oxides or stains you
intend
> to use. Although inhalation is the most sensitive route of inhalation for
> metallic oxides, absorption can be a significant route.
This is not correct. If you are talking about the normal ceramic oxides
(cobalt oxide, cobalt carbonate, chrome oxide, black iron oxide, red iron
oxide, rutile, copper carbonate, manganese dioxide), or if you are talking
about Mason stains, then there is no danger at all from absorption. Let's
get real here folks. These materials are insoluble, and do not penetrate
the skin.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Imzadi Donelli on sun 9 sep 01
Coming out of lurk mode again...
Haven't seen anyone post this link. It is a great site for directions and
pictures of how to lay out the various colors of clay. The potter calls his
process "agateware". Not sure if he is a member of Clayart, so I hope this
is okay to post.
http://www.dhpot.demon.co.uk/
Imzadi
ababi on tue 11 sep 01
Yes this is how it is called and David is a dear and
helping member of ClayArt
Ababi-hope to have normal connection
>Coming out of lurk mode again...
>Haven't seen anyone post this link. It is a great site
for directions and
>pictures of how to lay out the various colors of clay.
The potter calls his
>process "agateware". Not sure if he is a member of
Clayart, so I hope this
>is okay to post.
>
>http://www.dhpot.demon.co.uk/
>
>
>Imzadi
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change
your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached
at melpots@pclink.com.
>
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