vince pitelka on sun 9 sep 01
> There are six basic MACHINES in this world. The wedge,the inclined
> plane, the wheel, the lever and fulcrum, the screw, and the pulley. If
> you use any one of these MACHINES, in any form or shape to make your
> pot, then your pot is not handmade.
Maybe it is time to move on to some other topic, because this is evolving
into the absurd. I hope you do not take offense, but I have to say that the
above is patently ridiculous. I am do not want to be contrary or
disrespectful, but I am appalled at this convoluted logic. No one and no
definition ever implied that the term "handmade" precludes the use of tools
or machines. It means that the maker, via his hands and/or by the tools
held in or controlled by his hands, has primary control of the shape and
form of each and every item, produced individually as a unique piece,
different from all others. In each individual piece there is a
decision-making process regarding shape and form, and it is up to the eye
and skills of the craftsperson to determine the shape and form of each
piece. So a woodworker turning a table leg on a lathe, shaping it with a
gouge, may never touch the piece with his hands until he/she removes it from
the lathe, and yet it is obviously handmade, because he/she is controlling
every nuance of the finished product BY HAND, and no two table legs turned
BY HAND are going to be identical.
The same is true of the pottery wheel, as I stated in another post today.
There is no way you can say the same is true of jiggering, slip casting, or
ram pressing. Once the original mold is made, the industrial process
controls the shape and form of every piece with absolutely uniformity, and
the operator no longer has any control over those qualities.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Terrance Lazaroff on sun 9 sep 01
Vince
I have to go with you on this. It is about time to close the book and think
about the dilemma. Perhaps some of out university students can use the
subject for a thesis. Then the subject would be looked at in a more
standardized way.
Yes enough is enough.
Terrance
.
gadget on sun 9 sep 01
Vince,
No offense taken.
I believe in definitions. They provide a starting point, as language
is always evolving.
I checked in the Random House College dictionary that I have handy and
this is their definition of a simple machine.
Absurd or ridiculous, I don't know.
Their definition of handmade is "Made by hand, rather than by machine"
My convulted logic tells me that if I use one of these six basic
machines to make a piece, than that piece is not 100% handmade.
I am somewhat anal about these things (too many true/false questions
in school) and I am sorry if I struck a wrong note with you. We agree
on so many other things.
You wrote:
It means that the maker, via his hands and/or by the tools
>held in or controlled by his hands, has primary control of the shape
and
>form of each and every item, produced individually as a unique piece,
>different from all others. In each individual piece there is a
>decision-making process regarding shape and form, and it is up to the
eye
>and skills of the craftsperson to determine the shape and form of
each
>piece.
I wish that I could write as well as you. This is exactly what I was
trying to say when I wrote at the end of my post: the machinery
that one chooses to use and the skill with which one uses those
machines, defines the works place in the world.
No offence or disrespect intended.
have fun,
Charles
-----Original Message-----
From: vince pitelka
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: Sunday, September 09, 2001 5:51 AM
Subject: Re: handmade ad nauseum
>> There are six basic MACHINES in this world. The wedge,the inclined
>> plane, the wheel, the lever and fulcrum, the screw, and the pulley.
If
>> you use any one of these MACHINES, in any form or shape to make
your
>> pot, then your pot is not handmade.
>
>Maybe it is time to move on to some other topic, because this is
evolving
>into the absurd. I hope you do not take offense, but I have to say
that the
>above is patently ridiculous. I am do not want to be contrary or
>disrespectful, but I am appalled at this convoluted logic. No one
and no
>definition ever implied that the term "handmade" precludes the use of
tools
>or machines. It means that the maker, via his hands and/or by the
tools
>held in or controlled by his hands, has primary control of the shape
and
>form of each and every item, produced individually as a unique piece,
>different from all others. In each individual piece there is a
>decision-making process regarding shape and form, and it is up to the
eye
>and skills of the craftsperson to determine the shape and form of
each
>piece. So a woodworker turning a table leg on a lathe, shaping it
with a
>gouge, may never touch the piece with his hands until he/she removes
it from
>the lathe, and yet it is obviously handmade, because he/she is
controlling
>every nuance of the finished product BY HAND, and no two table legs
turned
>BY HAND are going to be identical.
>
>The same is true of the pottery wheel, as I stated in another post
today.
>There is no way you can say the same is true of jiggering, slip
casting, or
>ram pressing. Once the original mold is made, the industrial process
>controls the shape and form of every piece with absolutely
uniformity, and
>the operator no longer has any control over those qualities.
>Best wishes -
>- Vince
>
>Vince Pitelka
>Appalachian Center for Crafts
>Tennessee Technological University
>1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
>Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
>615/597-5376
>Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
>615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
>http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
>
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>
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>
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melpots@pclink.com.
>
Richard Urban on sun 9 sep 01
I'd have to disagree with you on the enough is enough business. I mean you do
have a delete button don't you?
Tommy Humphries on sun 9 sep 01
OK, if we take your argument to the logical conclusion, then ware made using
our hands is also machine made, as most of the joints in the body are simple
levers, often in conjunction with pulleys...:^)
No one can argue that items made with these simple machines, are not
handmade as the hands do the shaping. I am officially changing my stance on
this issue, and will now say that the stationary jigger machine will produce
good hand-jiggered, pots...not hand made, but hand jiggered...we still have
to distinguish between manual operated machines and the big automatic
ones...at least I think we do...
The human machine
Tommy Humphries
----- Original Message -----
From: "gadget"
To:
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2001 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: handmade ad nauseum
> Vince,
> No offense taken.
> I believe in definitions. They provide a starting point, as language
> is always evolving.
> I checked in the Random House College dictionary that I have handy and
> this is their definition of a simple machine.
> >> There are six basic MACHINES in this world. The wedge,the inclined
> >> plane, the wheel, the lever and fulcrum, the screw, and the pulley.
> If
> >> you use any one of these MACHINES, in any form or shape to make
> your
> >> pot, then your pot is not handmade.
Robert Dye on mon 10 sep 01
I would expect that when interest wanes, nobody responding to a post, that
then, and only then, is it time to move on to other topics.
vince pitelka on mon 10 sep 01
> I'd have to disagree with you on the enough is enough business. I mean you
do
> have a delete button don't you?
Richard -
Well know, what exactly do you mean by "delete button?" This could be
fodder for a very lively debate with which we could clog Clayart for weeks.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
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