David Hendley on sun 16 sep 01
I've observed 2 interesting realities concerning functional pottery.
First, many, many people buy supposedly functional pottery and never
use it for its intended function.
In fact, there are throngs of 'pseudo-functional' pottery lurking in
every craft gallery and at every art fair: leaching bowls, dribbling
pitchers, and overly fragile teapots with foot-long spouts.
In this environment, what does it matter if a piece of earthenware is
durable?
Second, people are so used to being ripped off by shoddy merchandise
that most will never think twice if a piece of pottery chips or breaks after
a
short while.
Corporations start training consumers for this mind-set at a very early
age by deceptive advertising and packaging of toys. How many junk
e-mails did you receive today that promised happiness, riches, or bigger
breasts?
Compared to all this, a low-fire cup that will likely 'only' last several
years
actually seems quite permanent.
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
hendley@tyler.net
http://www.farmpots.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "CINDI ANDERSON"
To:
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 2:39 PM
Subject: Low fire "functional" ceramics: oxy moron, right?
> I have learned from you all that there there is no way to use low fire
clay and get a functional piece that is dishwasher safe, microwave safe, and
durable.
>
> So I have a problem when I see low fire functional pieces in all the
galleries and stores. They are usually very pretty, very nicely decorated.
But I have a problem every time I see them; I think consumers are being
ripped off because they don't know that the pieces won't last. I have
succumbed to a few myself, and they work for a while but eventually chip or
crack.
>
> I am not trying to judge low fire ceramists. But trying to understand.
Am I exaggerating how bad this problem is? Are there some low fire bodies
that truly are vitrified? Do these artists bisque at high fire, then glaze
at low fire? Or am I correct in my apprehension?
>
> Thanks
> Cindi
> Fremont, CA
.
Tim Skeen on mon 17 sep 01
David, Vince...
I was wondering not so much about the chipping but putting low-fire
functional pottery in the microwave or oven. I have some low fire mugs and
they do fine in the microwave even better than a few of my ^6 mugs I have
purchased. However as you stated people don't always use pottery for what
it was intended for. Would low fire be safe if put in the oven? I'm sure
some customers would do that with a bowl or pot looking like a casserole.
We can tell our customers about the pottery even hand them a card with the
do's and don'ts but how many customers will remember what bowl is low fire
and what bowl is high fire or tell the family member or friend they give it
to.
I'm not a functional potter but I have made a few items in low fire clay and
wondered how these items would hold up down the road or how safe they would
be if used differently (oven, microwave).
It's wonderful to be thinking about clay again.
Audrey Skeen
mailto:taskeen@mtdpottery.com
http://mtdpottery.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of David Hendley
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 12:34 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Low fire "functional" ceramics
I've observed 2 interesting realities concerning functional pottery.
First, many, many people buy supposedly functional pottery and never
use it for its intended function.
In fact, there are throngs of 'pseudo-functional' pottery lurking in
every craft gallery and at every art fair: leaching bowls, dribbling
pitchers, and overly fragile teapots with foot-long spouts.
In this environment, what does it matter if a piece of earthenware is
durable?
Second, people are so used to being ripped off by shoddy merchandise
that most will never think twice if a piece of pottery chips or breaks after
a
short while.
Corporations start training consumers for this mind-set at a very early
age by deceptive advertising and packaging of toys. How many junk
e-mails did you receive today that promised happiness, riches, or bigger
breasts?
Compared to all this, a low-fire cup that will likely 'only' last several
years
actually seems quite permanent.
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
hendley@tyler.net
http://www.farmpots.com
=?iso-8859-1?q?sally=20Bazett?= on mon 17 sep 01
I have made, fired and used earthanware cassaroles
before now. They work well but it is best to fire
them towards the high end of the earthanware scale. I
tend to preheat them before use with hot water. If
you are unsure about yours why not make one and test
it for a while. But saying that alot of the baking
dishes industrially produced in this country are
earthanware, have a look in your local cookshop.
Sally in England
--- Tim Skeen wrote: >
David, Vince...
>
> I was wondering not so much about the chipping but
> putting low-fire
> functional pottery in the microwave or oven. I have
> some low fire mugs and
> they do fine in the microwave even better than a few
> of my ^6 mugs I have
> purchased. However as you stated people don't
> always use pottery for what
> it was intended for. Would low fire be safe if put
> in the oven? I'm sure
> some customers would do that with a bowl or pot
> looking like a casserole.
> We can tell our customers about the pottery even
> hand them a card with the
> do's and don'ts but how many customers will remember
> what bowl is low fire
> and what bowl is high fire or tell the family member
> or friend they give it
> to.
> I'm not a functional potter but I have made a few
> items in low fire clay and
> wondered how these items would hold up down the road
> or how safe they would
> be if used differently (oven, microwave).
>
> It's wonderful to be thinking about clay again.
> Audrey Skeen
> mailto:taskeen@mtdpottery.com
> http://mtdpottery.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List
> [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
> Behalf Of David Hendley
> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 12:34 AM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: Low fire "functional" ceramics
>
>
> I've observed 2 interesting realities concerning
> functional pottery.
> First, many, many people buy supposedly functional
> pottery and never
> use it for its intended function.
> In fact, there are throngs of 'pseudo-functional'
> pottery lurking in
> every craft gallery and at every art fair: leaching
> bowls, dribbling
> pitchers, and overly fragile teapots with foot-long
> spouts.
> In this environment, what does it matter if a piece
> of earthenware is
> durable?
>
> Second, people are so used to being ripped off by
> shoddy merchandise
> that most will never think twice if a piece of
> pottery chips or breaks after
> a
> short while.
> Corporations start training consumers for this
> mind-set at a very early
> age by deceptive advertising and packaging of toys.
> How many junk
> e-mails did you receive today that promised
> happiness, riches, or bigger
> breasts?
> Compared to all this, a low-fire cup that will
> likely 'only' last several
> years
> actually seems quite permanent.
>
> David Hendley
> Maydelle, Texas
> hendley@tyler.net
> http://www.farmpots.com
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change
> your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at melpots@pclink.com.
____________________________________________________________
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CINDI ANDERSON on mon 17 sep 01
I have a problem with this. An art piece such as a teapot that you can tell is not
intended to be used often is one thing. I can even buy into something like a large
platter which you wouldn't use every day, but only on special occassions. But the
idea of selling things that a normal person would assume to be used everyday,
knowing that it is only going to last a couple years but "who cares", that bugs
me. I'm sorry, I don't want to attack you personally. But if that is what these
artists are thinking then I am appalled. I hope you are in the minority and most
of them have developed durable clay bodies and glazes.
Cindi
David Hendley wrote:
> First, many, many people buy supposedly functional pottery and never
> use it for its intended function.
>
> Second, people are so used to being ripped off by shoddy merchandise
> that most will never think twice if a piece of pottery chips or breaks after
> a short while.
> Compared to all this, a low-fire cup that will likely 'only' last several
> years actually seems quite permanent.
>
> David Hendley
Tommy Humphries on mon 17 sep 01
Actually most ceramic baking dishes are supposed to go into a cold oven.
Even flameproof claybodies are not always what they are supposed to be.
Cold, fragile pot...Cold oven.
Tommy Humphries
----- Original Message -----
From: "sally Bazett"
To:
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 4:05 PM
Subject: Re: Low fire "functional" ceramics
> I have made, fired and used earthanware cassaroles
> before now. They work well but it is best to fire
> them towards the high end of the earthanware scale. I
> tend to preheat them before use with hot water. If
> you are unsure about yours why not make one and test
> it for a while. But saying that alot of the baking
> dishes industrially produced in this country are
> earthanware, have a look in your local cookshop.
> Sally in England
>
vince pitelka on mon 17 sep 01
> I have a problem with this. An art piece such as a teapot that you can
tell is not
> intended to be used often is one thing. I can even buy into something
like a large
> platter which you wouldn't use every day, but only on special occassions.
But the
> idea of selling things that a normal person would assume to be used
everyday,
> knowing that it is only going to last a couple years but "who cares", that
bugs
> me.
I do not understand why this is coming up all of a sudden. Lots of people
have beautiful low-fire dinnerware that they keep for decades. As long as
the customer is notified that the wares are low-fired, and therefore more
fragile than high-fired china, then what is the problem?
Another issue that has not been mentioned (or I did not see it) is the
possibility of firing to that practically unusued nether region between low
fire and midrange - what I call low midrange. You can fire utilitarian
cookware and dinnerware to cone 1 to cone 3 and get very durable utilitarian
wares.
I have a variety of redware utilitarian wares made by Patricia Fay, who now
teaches at Florida Gulf Coast University in Fort Myers. When she was making
this work she was glaze-firing to cone 04, using Francine Ozereko's
terracotta body, which contains a little 3124 frit. It does not vitrify,
but it fires very dense and resilient. I have used those wares in the
microwave and diswasher without any problems.
This seems to be another one of those issues of truth in advertising. If
you make low-fired wares, be straightforward with the customer about what
the work is and how it should be treated. If you buy low-fired dishes
because you love them, and you accept those conditions, then I expect you
will be more careful with these wares and they will last through
generations.
From some of these comments in this discussion it sounds like people expect
to be able to handle their handmade pottery dishes like they do a set of
vitreous commercial china. Personally I would never handle handmade wares
like that. I cannot imagine such a thing.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
vince pitelka on mon 17 sep 01
> I was wondering not so much about the chipping but putting low-fire
> functional pottery in the microwave or oven. I have some low fire mugs
and
> they do fine in the microwave even better than a few of my ^6 mugs I have
> purchased. However as you stated people don't always use pottery for what
> it was intended for. Would low fire be safe if put in the oven?
Audrey -
Again, I think it is up to the potter to give the customer proper
instructions to maximize the life of the wares. If I were selling lowfired
wares I would advise customer against soaking them in water, and I would
give the same advice for lowfire cookware that I would give with highfired
cookware. Logically, a lowfired casserole or platter should be more thermal
shock resistant than a highfired one, because the sintered lowfired matrix
is more flexible.
In either case, all casseroles should be preheated with hot water before
being placed in a hot oven, and upon removal from a hot oven should never be
placed on a cold hard surface. Hot food should never placed in a cold
platter or serving dish, and it is especially risky to place hot item (like
a potroast or a whole fish right out of the oven) in the center of a large
cold plate or dish. Whether lowfired or highfired, that will likely crack
the dish.
> We can tell our customers about the pottery even hand them a card with the
> do's and don'ts but how many customers will remember what bowl is low fire
> and what bowl is high fire or tell the family member or friend they give
it
> to.
There is nothing we can do about this and no reason we should worry about
it.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Martin Howard on tue 18 sep 01
Just about to deliver 60 pieces to a local restaurateur. Olive pots with
separate bases for the stones. All in earthenware, with a simple rim of dark
blue slip and clear glazed.
Fired at cone 1/2.
The cook at the restaurant particularly wanted tough ware which would
withstand the hard handling they will get in his kitchen.
He must have heard how difficult it was to smash my pottery from people who
went to the Saling Village Fete and tried to satisfy their feelings at the
Smash the Pottery Stall :-)
I might just be lucky in my selection of clay, slip, glaze and firing
routine, but Vince and others, my ware seems to be very strong and can be
handled roughly, although saving energy by firing low.
We should have a measure of how well pots bounce off a tiled floor:-)
Martin Howard
Webb's Cottage Pottery
Woolpits Road, Great Saling
BRAINTREE, Essex CM7 5DZ
England
martin@webbscottage.co.uk
http://www.webbscottage.co.uk
Wanda Holmes at Alistia on tue 18 sep 01
I am a tile maker so my definition of "functional" may be a bit different
from most in this group, but I'll add my two cents anyway. In my experience
you cannot generalize about earthenware or stoneware, low fire or high fire.
You must test and then you can talk about specific situations.
I test my clays (unglazed) for porosity and strength at various firing
temperatures. I test the fit (beyond the obvious visual examination) for
each clay and glaze combination by a series of thermal shock tests as well
as more strength tests. I test each glaze for hardness and durability.
I've tested a broad range of locally available clays and some of the
earthenware clays are stronger and less porous at 01/1 than many stoneware
clays at mid-range temperatures - and I mean stoneware clays that are
advertised as mid-range clays. Some of my test results fly directly in the
face of conventional wisdom, but the results are clear and repeatable. I
know that durable, long-lasting "functional" ware can be created at low fire
temperatures - I do it every day.
Wanda Holmes
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of Martin Howard
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 1:44 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Low fire "functional" ceramics
Just about to deliver 60 pieces to a local restaurateur. Olive pots with
separate bases for the stones. All in earthenware, with a simple rim of dark
blue slip and clear glazed.
Fired at cone 1/2.
The cook at the restaurant particularly wanted tough ware which would
withstand the hard handling they will get in his kitchen.
He must have heard how difficult it was to smash my pottery from people who
went to the Saling Village Fete and tried to satisfy their feelings at the
Smash the Pottery Stall :-)
I might just be lucky in my selection of clay, slip, glaze and firing
routine, but Vince and others, my ware seems to be very strong and can be
handled roughly, although saving energy by firing low.
We should have a measure of how well pots bounce off a tiled floor:-)
Martin Howard
Webb's Cottage Pottery
Woolpits Road, Great Saling
BRAINTREE, Essex CM7 5DZ
England
martin@webbscottage.co.uk
http://www.webbscottage.co.uk
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
David Hendley on thu 20 sep 01
> I'm sorry, I don't want to attack you personally. But if that is what
these
> artists are thinking then I am appalled. I hope you are in the minority
and most
> of them have developed durable clay bodies and glazes.
> Cindi
First of all Cindi, I was just trying to answer your question.
I would never presume to know what a low-fire pottery
artist is thinking.
I think the truth is, many are not even 'thinking' about things
like glaze fit and durability at all. That's certainly true for
potters working with stoneware.
That, combined with a buying public that will pretty much
accept any thing they get, means that the subject of durability
is never considered.
Second, since you did attack me personally even though you
didn't want to, let it be known that I am very conscious about
producing technically sound pottery. I know of no other potters
in my area who, like I, have formulated their own claybodies,
had them tested with a dilatometer, keep records of absorption
tests, and do regular test for durability with freeze/boiling water
cycle tests.
I actually would expect more, technically, from a piece of pottery
than you say you would. How large would a platter have to be
for it to be 'only used on special occasions'?
12 inches, 16 inches, 20 inches?
I would expect a 20 inch platter to be as durable as a salad plate.
How can you tell a teapot is 'not intended to be used often'?
If it's a teapot that can be used once, it should be technically sound.
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
hendley@tyler.net
http://www.farmpots.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "CINDI ANDERSON"
To:
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 1:56 PM
Subject: Re: Low fire "functional" ceramics
> I have a problem with this. An art piece such as a teapot that you can
tell is not
> intended to be used often is one thing. I can even buy into something
like a large
> platter which you wouldn't use every day, but only on special occassions.
But the
> idea of selling things that a normal person would assume to be used
everyday,
> knowing that it is only going to last a couple years but "who cares", that
bugs
> me. I'm sorry, I don't want to attack you personally. But if that is
what these
> artists are thinking then I am appalled. I hope you are in the minority
and most
> of them have developed durable clay bodies and glazes.
>
> Cindi
>
> David Hendley wrote:
>
> > First, many, many people buy supposedly functional pottery and never
> > use it for its intended function.
> >
> > Second, people are so used to being ripped off by shoddy merchandise
> > that most will never think twice if a piece of pottery chips or breaks
after
> > a short while.
> > Compared to all this, a low-fire cup that will likely 'only' last
several
> > years actually seems quite permanent.
> >
> > David Hendley
>
CINDI ANDERSON on thu 4 oct 01
Hi
Thanks for answering.
It seems that at cone 1 a durable body is possible. It is cone 04, 06, etc. that
it does not really seem possible. In fact all those on the list who said they did
low fire but it was durable, all fired at least Cone 1.
And you are absolutely right about stoneware being useless too if it isn't fired
right.
Cindi
Wanda Holmes at Alistia wrote:
> I am a tile maker so my definition of "functional" may be a bit different
> from most in this group, but I'll add my two cents anyway. In my experience
> you cannot generalize about earthenware or stoneware, low fire or high fire.
> You must test and then you can talk about specific situations.
>
> I test my clays (unglazed) for porosity and strength at various firing
> temperatures. I test the fit (beyond the obvious visual examination) for
> each clay and glaze combination by a series of thermal shock tests as well
> as more strength tests. I test each glaze for hardness and durability.
>
> I've tested a broad range of locally available clays and some of the
> earthenware clays are stronger and less porous at 01/1 than many stoneware
> clays at mid-range temperatures - and I mean stoneware clays that are
> advertised as mid-range clays. Some of my test results fly directly in the
> face of conventional wisdom, but the results are clear and repeatable. I
> know that durable, long-lasting "functional" ware can be created at low fire
> temperatures - I do it every day.
>
> Wanda Holmes
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
> Behalf Of Martin Howard
> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 1:44 AM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Low fire "functional" ceramics
>
> Just about to deliver 60 pieces to a local restaurateur. Olive pots with
> separate bases for the stones. All in earthenware, with a simple rim of dark
> blue slip and clear glazed.
> Fired at cone 1/2.
> The cook at the restaurant particularly wanted tough ware which would
> withstand the hard handling they will get in his kitchen.
> He must have heard how difficult it was to smash my pottery from people who
> went to the Saling Village Fete and tried to satisfy their feelings at the
> Smash the Pottery Stall :-)
>
> I might just be lucky in my selection of clay, slip, glaze and firing
> routine, but Vince and others, my ware seems to be very strong and can be
> handled roughly, although saving energy by firing low.
>
> We should have a measure of how well pots bounce off a tiled floor:-)
>
> Martin Howard
> Webb's Cottage Pottery
> Woolpits Road, Great Saling
> BRAINTREE, Essex CM7 5DZ
> England
>
> martin@webbscottage.co.uk
> http://www.webbscottage.co.uk
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
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