jean mitton on wed 19 sep 01
Hi folks,
Please clear your minds of conventional throwing practices =
when you read this. I posted it once, but Im sure that the one response =
I got, namely*Ivor from Oz* showed my message was not fully understood. =
Most potters would casually see it a normal throwing practice. Bear in =
mind, it is for large cylinders,18" Diameter Plus. I am sure for smaller =
12" diameter or less, conventional methods are more appropriate. You =
might ask12" to 18" diam??? Well thats up to you.
Ivor wrote *When you try it, perhaps you will let us know if the =
collar of clay starts to ripple as you collar it inwards from its =
conical form to the cyklinder shape*
Ivor, at no time should it be necessary to collar inwards to form a =
cylinder. The cylinder is formed when the cone is opened out fully. =
Obviously as the cone is opened up, clay has to be pulled up, as is done =
normally when forming a cylinder. Initially towards the imaginary apex =
of the cone, then to the top of cylinder formed. Basically you are =
bringing the radius of the pancake to a vertical position at its =
circumference.
=20
Now let me try and clarify Janets method, as best as I can.
Janet gradually separates the pancake from the bat face centre =
outwards, (not pushing) but lifting it from the bat to form a cone. Only =
the outside diameter of the pancake is left attached. This is the =
eventual base and diam. of the cylinder.
When I state(not pushing) there is a pushing action outwards with the =
tips of the fingers of the left hand, to separate the pancake from the =
bat, simultaneously lifting the clay. Initially her left hand is totally =
underneath the disc/pancake of clay, revolving above it. With repeated =
lifting and conventional pulling, plus the centrifugal action, this cone =
rises upwards and opens outwards at the top, eventually forming the =
cylinder.
Janet threw this on a bat approx. 18" diam. to a similar height.. =
The only collaring, if you can call it that, is for the base,*which is =
thrown inverted* when it is still a cone shape and not yet a cylinder, =
the top is closed in to form a base. Ensuring that it is made slightly =
hollow *concave* to prevent pot from rocking. Note all three parts are =
made in a similar manner. Ivor forget me trying it. The throwing of =
this size is beyond my capabilities. But I am hoping that someone who is =
capable, could find this post and technique useful.
=20
Regards,
RON MITTON.
S. AFRICA
Tommy Humphries on wed 19 sep 01
do you have the weight of the clay used, and the thickness of the "pancake"
before opening the walls?
This sounds interesting
Tommy
----- Original Message -----
From: "jean mitton"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 11:30 AM
Subject: Throwing tips part 2
Hi folks,
Please clear your minds of conventional throwing practices when
you read this. I posted it once, but Im sure that the one response I got,
namely*Ivor from Oz* showed my message was not fully understood. Most
potters would casually see it a normal throwing practice. Bear in mind, it
is for large cylinders,18" Diameter Plus. I am sure for smaller 12" diameter
or less, conventional methods are more appropriate. You might ask12" to 18"
diam??? Well thats up to you.
Ivor wrote *When you try it, perhaps you will let us know if the
collar of clay starts to ripple as you collar it inwards from its conical
form to the cyklinder shape*
Ivor, at no time should it be necessary to collar inwards to form a
cylinder. The cylinder is formed when the cone is opened out fully.
Obviously as the cone is opened up, clay has to be pulled up, as is done
normally when forming a cylinder. Initially towards the imaginary apex of
the cone, then to the top of cylinder formed. Basically you are bringing the
radius of the pancake to a vertical position at its circumference.
Now let me try and clarify Janets method, as best as I can.
Janet gradually separates the pancake from the bat face centre outwards,
(not pushing) but lifting it from the bat to form a cone. Only the outside
diameter of the pancake is left attached. This is the eventual base and
diam. of the cylinder.
When I state(not pushing) there is a pushing action outwards with the tips
of the fingers of the left hand, to separate the pancake from the bat,
simultaneously lifting the clay. Initially her left hand is totally
underneath the disc/pancake of clay, revolving above it. With repeated
lifting and conventional pulling, plus the centrifugal action, this cone
rises upwards and opens outwards at the top, eventually forming the
cylinder.
Janet threw this on a bat approx. 18" diam. to a similar height.. The
only collaring, if you can call it that, is for the base,*which is thrown
inverted* when it is still a cone shape and not yet a cylinder, the top is
closed in to form a base. Ensuring that it is made slightly hollow *concave*
to prevent pot from rocking. Note all three parts are made in a similar
manner. Ivor forget me trying it. The throwing of this size is beyond my
capabilities. But I am hoping that someone who is capable, could find this
post and technique useful.
Regards,
RON MITTON.
S. AFRICA
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Alisa og Claus Clausen on thu 20 sep 01
Dear Ivor and Clayart,
This is the method and learned and use from Janet last summer. She throws
her large forms this way. But she throws a series or three parts and luts
them together when they are appropriately stiffened.
Janet started with about 10lbs of clay and centered it flat, like a thick
pancake. Then she smacked another ball of 10lbs or so on top of the
pancake. She slowly pressed it down and out to cover and adhere to the
underlying pancake. She did this 2 to 3 times, depending on the amount of
clay she needed to center. She stressed that this method is to save over
extension of upper body muscles. She also uses her forearms to center the
entire piece of clay.
When she pulled up the cylinders, she pulled up a lot of clay at one
time. She throws fluidly and quickly, not much nitpicking around.
To make the 2 or 3 components for her pots, she threw the first component
as Ron described. She opens the first ball of clay all the way to the
bottom and then pulls up the walls into a cylinder, eventually closing the
cylinder at the top. She levels off the top of the closed cylinder with a
rib and presses it down in the middle for stability and strength. I find
sometimes necessary to prick a small hole in the vessel to get the concave
shape. I do not recall her collaring. But, I collar in if my clay gets
too flared. I have no rippling if the clay is well wedged and I am
collaring at an even and easy pressure. It can happen with uneven walls,
especially if the pot is too thin at the base in relation to the top.
Then Janet thows the next component. Same drill as above, but she leaves
the top open, collared in for an eventual coil to be set on and thrown into
the neck.
She has a fantastic method to lut the two components together. She sets
them on top of each other and goes around the pot while it slowly turns on
the wheel, pinching and twisting the clay into a very decorative set of
locking keys inside and out, simultaneoulsy. One hand on the inside, the
other outside. She eventually smooths this pattern over. Then she sets a
coil on top and throws that into a short neck. If she wants a bigger pot,
she throws a middle section, that is equally opened at the base and top,
and puts that between the top and bottom sections. Janet says the easiest
way to measure a good fit between the circumferences of the components, is
to measure them on the bat. Throw them out to equal distances just short
of the bat's circumference. It will be that much easier to fit them
together later.
I use this technique and I think it is very good. I am not a fantastic
thrower. I mean I can throw, but I do not consider myself a "Phil". Phil
was the graduate student I knew when I was an undergraduate that threw the
50 mugs I needed for a sale. He took pity on me after days of nothing but
adding to the slop population. He did the entire business in a couple of
hours. So,even though I am not a "Phil", I can use this technique. What I
am saying is you do not need to be a heavy hitter to get the hang of
this. I have taken to throwing my smaller exhibition work with this
method. I just throw the first the component, make the foot ring and
invert it to carve.
Best regards,
Alisa in Denmark
C TRIPP on fri 21 sep 01
Dear Ron,
I have to admit that I cannot make head nor tail of what you wrote. I shall
save it until I am mentally stronger. Meanwhile, could I suggest that your
write this method up with drawings or photos and get it published in Pottery
Making Illustrated? PMI is the perfect magazine for this type of info.
Contact Bill Jones at his email . Please.
Best regards,
Carol
PS I don't work for PMI.
On Wed, 19 Sep 2001 18:30:31 +0200, Ceramic Arts Discussion List wrote:
> Hi folks,
> Please clear your minds of conventional throwing practices when
you read this. I posted it once, but Im sure that the one response I got,
namely*Ivor from Oz* showed my message was not fully understood. Most
potters would casually see it a normal throwing practice. Bear in mind, it
is for large cylinders,18" Diameter Plus. I am sure for smaller 12" diameter
or less, conventional methods are more appropriate. You might ask12" to 18"
diam??? Well thats up to you.
>
> Ivor wrote *When you try it, perhaps you will let us know if the
collar of clay starts to ripple as you collar it inwards from its conical
form to the cyklinder shape*
> Ivor, at no time should it be necessary to collar inwards to form a
cylinder. The cylinder is formed when the cone is opened out fully.
Obviously as the cone is opened up, clay has to be pulled up, as is done
normally when forming a cylinder. Initially towards the imaginary apex of
the cone, then to the top of cylinder formed. Basically you are bringing the
radius of the pancake to a vertical position at its circumference.
>
> Now let me try and clarify Janets method, as best as I can.
> Janet gradually separates the pancake from the bat face centre
outwards, (not pushing) but lifting it from the bat to form a cone. Only the
outside diameter of the pancake is left attached. This is the eventual base
and diam. of the cylinder.
> When I state(not pushing) there is a pushing action outwards with the
tips of the fingers of the left hand, to separate the pancake from the bat,
simultaneously lifting the clay. Initially her left hand is totally
underneath the disc/pancake of clay, revolving above it. With repeated
lifting and conventional pulling, plus the centrifugal action, this cone
rises upwards and opens outwards at the top, eventually forming the
cylinder.
>
> Janet threw this on a bat approx. 18" diam. to a similar height..
The only collaring, if you can call it that, is for the base,*which is
thrown inverted* when it is still a cone shape and not yet a cylinder, the
top is closed in to form a base. Ensuring that it is made slightly hollow
*concave* to prevent pot from rocking. Note all three parts are made in a
similar manner. Ivor forget me trying it. The throwing of this size is
beyond my capabilities. But I am hoping that someone who is capable, could
find this post and technique useful.
>
> Regards,
> RON MITTON.
> S. AFRICA
>
>
_______________________________________________________
Send a cool gift with your E-Card
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becky schroeder on fri 21 sep 01
carol,
great suggestion. i thought i was the only soggy headed dope who couldn't
figure this out for love nor $.
becky schroeder
>Dear Ron,
>I have to admit that I cannot make head nor tail of what you wrote. I
>shall
>save it until I am mentally stronger. Meanwhile, could I suggest that your
>write this method up with drawings or photos and get it published in
>Pottery
>Making Illustrated? PMI is the perfect magazine for this type of info.
>Contact Bill Jones at his email . Please.
>Best regards,
>Carol
>PS I don't work for PMI.
>
>On Wed, 19 Sep 2001 18:30:31 +0200, Ceramic Arts Discussion List wrote:
>
> > Hi folks,
> > Please clear your minds of conventional throwing practices
>when
>you read this. I posted it once, but Im sure that the one response I got,
>namely*Ivor from Oz* showed my message was not fully understood. Most
>potters would casually see it a normal throwing practice. Bear in mind, it
>is for large cylinders,18" Diameter Plus. I am sure for smaller 12"
>diameter
>or less, conventional methods are more appropriate. You might ask12" to 18"
>diam??? Well thats up to you.
> >
> > Ivor wrote *When you try it, perhaps you will let us know if the
>collar of clay starts to ripple as you collar it inwards from its conical
>form to the cyklinder shape*
> > Ivor, at no time should it be necessary to collar inwards to form a
>cylinder. The cylinder is formed when the cone is opened out fully.
>Obviously as the cone is opened up, clay has to be pulled up, as is done
>normally when forming a cylinder. Initially towards the imaginary apex of
>the cone, then to the top of cylinder formed. Basically you are bringing
>the
>radius of the pancake to a vertical position at its circumference.
> >
> > Now let me try and clarify Janets method, as best as I can.
> > Janet gradually separates the pancake from the bat face centre
>outwards, (not pushing) but lifting it from the bat to form a cone. Only
>the
>outside diameter of the pancake is left attached. This is the eventual base
>and diam. of the cylinder.
> > When I state(not pushing) there is a pushing action outwards with the
>tips of the fingers of the left hand, to separate the pancake from the bat,
>simultaneously lifting the clay. Initially her left hand is totally
>underneath the disc/pancake of clay, revolving above it. With repeated
>lifting and conventional pulling, plus the centrifugal action, this cone
>rises upwards and opens outwards at the top, eventually forming the
>cylinder.
> >
> > Janet threw this on a bat approx. 18" diam. to a similar height..
>The only collaring, if you can call it that, is for the base,*which is
>thrown inverted* when it is still a cone shape and not yet a cylinder, the
>top is closed in to form a base. Ensuring that it is made slightly hollow
>*concave* to prevent pot from rocking. Note all three parts are made in a
>similar manner. Ivor forget me trying it. The throwing of this size is
>beyond my capabilities. But I am hoping that someone who is capable, could
>find this post and technique useful.
> >
> > Regards,
> > RON MITTON.
> > S. AFRICA
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________________
>Send a cool gift with your E-Card
>http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
_________________________________________________________________
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