hilda Wagner on tue 23 oct 01
CSLPZZN@AOL.COM wrote:
>
> Could someone please tell me if it is proper/correct or not for an instructor
> to put his/her hands on a students pot or on a students hands at any time?
> Is there some unwritten rule that I don't know about?
>
> Should it be "hands off" at all times?
>
> I've been helping out at a community center for a couple of years and have
> started about 27 people.
>
> People have said that it helps them if I throw from the other side at the
> beginning once or twice. I also like to take what they think is a centered
> ball of clay and really center it so they can feel the difference.
> Somethimes they'll say they are done with a pot and feel there are no more
> pulls in there. I'll go to the bottom and make one last huge pull and
> transform the piece in one pull to their total amazement. Then I crash it
> and they try again.
>
> Now I've been criticized by the other pottery instructor for touching the
> students pieces.
>
> She says she would NEVER put her hands on a students pot.
>
> I've even put my hands on top of a persons hands and showed her what a
> "productive" pull feels like. I've only had to do that once with someone who
> just wasn't getting it. I realize that this is invading someones personal
> space and I always tell them what I'm going to do before I do it.
>
> I'm forever amazed at what all these people can make now and how happy they
> are with the learning process and how they understand the long journey. They
> are accomplished in all the basic forms and combined forms. This isn't an
> accredited art school...just a well run and happy community pottery studio.
> I would like to think that this speaks for itself.
>
> I couldn't find anything in the archives regarding this and I really want to
> know if my method, if you can call it that....I basically instruct by the
> seat of my pants, is incorrect.
>
> Thanks in advance
> Carolyn
I am a ceramics student who has taken classes off and on for 10 years. I
rarely post here as I am here to learn - in other words, a lurker.
I have run into this attitude over and over again in classes. Sure there
are students who treasure every mis-shapen glob and would be traumatized
if you touch their work, but with adult students who really want to
learn - not just make things, I think some things can best be taught by
holding their hands or touching their work in some way. You should
always ask and be very careful with the very timid students. You know
who they are!
This is also a very touchy thing in painting and drawing classes and it
may have started there. With an oil painting, you might work on it for
weeks or months, learning all the way. If an instructor shows you how to
do something on the piece itself, by definition, it ruins the integrity
of the piece.
When one is doing quick sketches or studies, it is a different thing.
These are meant as learning exercises and are best thrown away when
finished. Who cares if the instructor has changed the position of a hand
or shaded an area?
Pottery might be the same thing. If the pot is seen by the student as a
learning tool, do what you will. If the pot is seen as an enduring
expression, never touch it.
Your job will be to divine the intent and attitude of the student!
But ask first :)
HIlda
David Hendley on tue 23 oct 01
When I was teaching beginners to throw, I always put my hands
on top of the student's hands to show them what centered clay
feels like.
Also did the same, for those that needed it, for opening the
ball and pulling up the clay.
Now for the 'big but':
This was 25 years ago.
I still think it's the best way to teach throwing, but I wonder if
you are opening yourself up to possible problems in today's
overly sensitive, politically correct, infectious disease
conscious society.
I don't know, but I know your teaching instincts are correct.
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
hendley@tyler.net
http://www.farmpots.com
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 5:43 PM
Subject: teaching methods help please
> Could someone please tell me if it is proper/correct or not for an
instructor
> to put his/her hands on a students pot or on a students hands at any time?
> Is there some unwritten rule that I don't know about?
>
> Should it be "hands off" at all times?
>
> I've been helping out at a community center for a couple of years and
have
> started about 27 people.
>
> People have said that it helps them if I throw from the other side at the
> beginning once or twice. I also like to take what they think is a
centered
> ball of clay and really center it so they can feel the difference.
> Somethimes they'll say they are done with a pot and feel there are no more
> pulls in there. I'll go to the bottom and make one last huge pull and
> transform the piece in one pull to their total amazement. Then I crash it
> and they try again.
>
> Now I've been criticized by the other pottery instructor for touching the
> students pieces.
>
> She says she would NEVER put her hands on a students pot.
>
> I've even put my hands on top of a persons hands and showed her what a
> "productive" pull feels like. I've only had to do that once with someone
who
> just wasn't getting it. I realize that this is invading someones personal
> space and I always tell them what I'm going to do before I do it.
>
> I'm forever amazed at what all these people can make now and how happy
they
> are with the learning process and how they understand the long journey.
They
> are accomplished in all the basic forms and combined forms. This isn't an
> accredited art school...just a well run and happy community pottery
studio.
> I would like to think that this speaks for itself.
>
> I couldn't find anything in the archives regarding this and I really want
to
> know if my method, if you can call it that....I basically instruct by the
> seat of my pants, is incorrect.
>
> Thanks in advance
> Carolyn
>
C TRIPP on tue 23 oct 01
Others have addressed the touch/not touch students' hands issue. I'd like to
add a method I use for teaching various things. I let my students practice
on something I have made. That way, they can make the first clumsy steps on
my sample and then go on to practice upon their own "precious" piece. E.g.
I make a mug, demonstrate pulling some handles (suggesting they make at
least three times the number of handles needed, groan) demonstrate how to
attach the handle and then let the student use my handles to add three or
four more to the sample mug. I also put on a handle and show how to cut if
off and redo it. Gasps always greet this move. Then the student goes on to
put her handles on her mugs and she is much less overawed by the whole
process and probably does a better job, being calmer.
As for the teacher who never touches a student pot, I had one who was always
interfering and finishing pots off for students. Move aside, ninny, and
away she would go.
Best regards,
Carol
_______________________________________________________
Send a cool gift with your E-Card
http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/
CSLPZZN@AOL.COM on tue 23 oct 01
Could someone please tell me if it is proper/correct or not for an instructor
to put his/her hands on a students pot or on a students hands at any time?
Is there some unwritten rule that I don't know about?
Should it be "hands off" at all times?
I've been helping out at a community center for a couple of years and have
started about 27 people.
People have said that it helps them if I throw from the other side at the
beginning once or twice. I also like to take what they think is a centered
ball of clay and really center it so they can feel the difference.
Somethimes they'll say they are done with a pot and feel there are no more
pulls in there. I'll go to the bottom and make one last huge pull and
transform the piece in one pull to their total amazement. Then I crash it
and they try again.
Now I've been criticized by the other pottery instructor for touching the
students pieces.
She says she would NEVER put her hands on a students pot.
I've even put my hands on top of a persons hands and showed her what a
"productive" pull feels like. I've only had to do that once with someone who
just wasn't getting it. I realize that this is invading someones personal
space and I always tell them what I'm going to do before I do it.
I'm forever amazed at what all these people can make now and how happy they
are with the learning process and how they understand the long journey. They
are accomplished in all the basic forms and combined forms. This isn't an
accredited art school...just a well run and happy community pottery studio.
I would like to think that this speaks for itself.
I couldn't find anything in the archives regarding this and I really want to
know if my method, if you can call it that....I basically instruct by the
seat of my pants, is incorrect.
Thanks in advance
Carolyn
Tony Ferguson on tue 23 oct 01
Always ask for permission before you touch anything--it's a good idea. In
the beginning, I put my hands on my student's and help with a few pots and
then it's hands off for me.
Tony Ferguson
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 5:43 PM
Subject: teaching methods help please
> Could someone please tell me if it is proper/correct or not for an
instructor
> to put his/her hands on a students pot or on a students hands at any time?
> Is there some unwritten rule that I don't know about?
>
> Should it be "hands off" at all times?
>
> I've been helping out at a community center for a couple of years and
have
> started about 27 people.
>
> People have said that it helps them if I throw from the other side at the
> beginning once or twice. I also like to take what they think is a
centered
> ball of clay and really center it so they can feel the difference.
> Somethimes they'll say they are done with a pot and feel there are no more
> pulls in there. I'll go to the bottom and make one last huge pull and
> transform the piece in one pull to their total amazement. Then I crash it
> and they try again.
>
> Now I've been criticized by the other pottery instructor for touching the
> students pieces.
>
> She says she would NEVER put her hands on a students pot.
>
> I've even put my hands on top of a persons hands and showed her what a
> "productive" pull feels like. I've only had to do that once with someone
who
> just wasn't getting it. I realize that this is invading someones personal
> space and I always tell them what I'm going to do before I do it.
>
> I'm forever amazed at what all these people can make now and how happy
they
> are with the learning process and how they understand the long journey.
They
> are accomplished in all the basic forms and combined forms. This isn't an
> accredited art school...just a well run and happy community pottery
studio.
> I would like to think that this speaks for itself.
>
> I couldn't find anything in the archives regarding this and I really want
to
> know if my method, if you can call it that....I basically instruct by the
> seat of my pants, is incorrect.
>
> Thanks in advance
> Carolyn
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
_________________________________________________________
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Cindy Griffis on tue 23 oct 01
Carolyn,
Speaking as a fairly new (1 year) potter who took 2 courses at a
community art center, I would have loved to have someone do what you
described. I pretty much spent my second course "un-learning" almost
everything the first instructor 'taught' me. It took me nearly 3
months to really learn how to center...which I don't feel is
necessary. I'm still not certain that I am getting all the pulls out
of a piece, but am reluctant to waste any more money at this facility
when they aren't concerned with the ineptitude of their instructors.
(Several of us reported the ineffectual help, and simply wrong
information the instructor gave us to the studio director, and they
continue to have her teach.)
IMHO it would be so rewarding and encouraging to become productive
sooner than later when beginning pottery. So, keep up the great
work---do what ever it takes to help your students!
--- CSLPZZN@AOL.COM wrote:
> Could someone please tell me if it is proper/correct or not for an
> instructor
> to put his/her hands on a students pot or on a students hands at
> any time?
> Is there some unwritten rule that I don't know about?
>
> Should it be "hands off" at all times?
>
> I've been helping out at a community center for a couple of years
> and have
> started about 27 people.
>
> People have said that it helps them if I throw from the other side
> at the
> beginning once or twice. I also like to take what they think is a
> centered
> ball of clay and really center it so they can feel the difference.
> Somethimes they'll say they are done with a pot and feel there are
> no more
> pulls in there. I'll go to the bottom and make one last huge pull
> and
> transform the piece in one pull to their total amazement. Then I
> crash it
> and they try again.
>
> Now I've been criticized by the other pottery instructor for
> touching the
> students pieces.
>
> She says she would NEVER put her hands on a students pot.
>
> I've even put my hands on top of a persons hands and showed her
> what a
> "productive" pull feels like. I've only had to do that once with
> someone who
> just wasn't getting it. I realize that this is invading someones
> personal
> space and I always tell them what I'm going to do before I do it.
>
> I'm forever amazed at what all these people can make now and how
> happy they
> are with the learning process and how they understand the long
> journey. They
> are accomplished in all the basic forms and combined forms. This
> isn't an
> accredited art school...just a well run and happy community pottery
> studio.
> I would like to think that this speaks for itself.
>
> I couldn't find anything in the archives regarding this and I
> really want to
> know if my method, if you can call it that....I basically instruct
> by the
> seat of my pants, is incorrect.
>
> Thanks in advance
> Carolyn
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
> subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
__________________________________________________
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Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
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Earl Brunner on tue 23 oct 01
I often put my hands on the hands of beginners at the art center and
demonstrate the amount and placement of pressure involved in some of
the basic, beginning steps. They often don't really know what they are
supposed to be doing. I would have to say that it depends on the
circumstances though. I'm not sure that I would do it in a public
school environment. We have been cautioned again and again against
physical contact of any kind with students in school. (different issue)
CSLPZZN@AOL.COM wrote:
> Could someone please tell me if it is proper/correct or not for an instructor
> to put his/her hands on a students pot or on a students hands at any time?
> Is there some unwritten rule that I don't know about?
>
> Should it be "hands off" at all times?
>
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec/
bruec@anv.net
Karin Hurt on tue 23 oct 01
Hi Carolyn,
as a "forever" student I can only say "I wish I had a teacher like you." We
sit facing the wall and now and then the teacher comes up behind us, if we
are totally desperate, he might even sit down at our wheel and show us, but
those times are few and far between. From my own student perspective I'd say
hurray for you, keep doing what you are doing.
Karin
Valerie Johnson on tue 23 oct 01
As a student in a private studio, I certainly appreciated my teacher's
putting her hands on my pots; she did this either on top of my hands or on
the opposite side. I felt like I obtained a better idea of what she was
saying with her words when her words were combined with action. However, I
don't recall her ever pulling without my hands on the pot at the same time
as well. I don't know if it would have mattered to me or not.
If this is a teaching faux pas, then I've been had!
Valerie Johnson
Eads, TN
Dannon Rhudy on tue 23 oct 01
At 08:43 PM 10/23/2001 EDT, you wrote:
>Could someone please tell me if it is proper/correct or not for an instructor
>to put his/her hands on a students pot or on a students hands at any time?
>Is there some unwritten rule that I don't know about?
I always show my beginning students what it feels like to
center the clay - my hands over theirs. At some point on
the first day I also show each beginner how it feels to pull
up the clay - so that they know how much pressure to use.
My hands over theirs, again.
My beginners leave the first throwing class able to center,
open and pull up a piece of two pounds or so. So far, no
complaints. Do whatever works. Only one student so far
did not WANT me to help - and he didn't need any. A
blacksmith, used to using his hands.
If you're worried, ask if they would like such help. Bet each
says "yes, please".
regards
Dannon Rhudy
Cindy Strnad on tue 23 oct 01
Dear Carolyn,
You are treating your students with respect. They
are learning and happy. Do you care what this
other teacher thinks?
Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels Pottery
RR 1, Box 51
Custer, SD 57730
USA
cindy@earthen-vessels-pottery.com
http://www.earthen-vessels-pottery.com
vince pitelka on tue 23 oct 01
> Could someone please tell me if it is proper/correct or not for an
instructor
> to put his/her hands on a students pot or on a students hands at any time?
> Is there some unwritten rule that I don't know about?
> People have said that it helps them if I throw from the other side at the
> beginning once or twice. I also like to take what they think is a
centered
> ball of clay and really center it so they can feel the difference.
> Somethimes they'll say they are done with a pot and feel there are no more
> pulls in there. I'll go to the bottom and make one last huge pull and
> transform the piece in one pull to their total amazement. Then I crash it
> and they try again.
> Now I've been criticized by the other pottery instructor for touching the
> students pieces.
> She says she would NEVER put her hands on a students pot.
Carolyn -
Your associate's approach seems a bit extreme. I would draw the line at
putting your hands on the other person's hands. I do not think anyone can
afford to do that today. It is too easy to misunderstand your intentions.
Regarding touching student pots, it depends on the situation. I agree with
you about re-centering the lump and letting the student see the difference,
or doing another pull on the student's cylinder to show them how much clay
is left in the lower walls. But I would avoid putting my hands on the pot
spefically to make an aesthetic change or to finish the form - to "improve"
the appearance of the pot. Give the student all the suggestions you can,
and do demos again and again so it really sinks in, and get your hands in
there occasionally to show the process and technique, but let them make the
major decisions and finish up the form and surface, so the pots will be
theirs and not yours.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Tommy Humphries on tue 23 oct 01
Gosh I don't know of a way to teach someone to make a pot that wouldn't
involve touching the pot or guiding the hands occasionally. As long as the
intrusions are brief, I think that the helping touch can be a Godsend in
helping the learner see the light. BUT after showing them the way, let them
mess up a few times, don't just jump in and take over on the pot. Usually
there will be a cue from the student when they want help...when the rim is
going wompy and they look up in desperation to you...you show them again how
to steady the rim.
A clay student has to KNOW how a certain pull feels, or it will take forever
to learn. If you are in charge of TEACHING them to throw, then it should be
up to you to TEACH them how to throw, not just SHOWING them.
There is a difference
try learning to play a violin without the instructor SHOWING how hard to
hold the strings, or how much pressure to place on the bow
Learning clay is a complex task... your students didn't take the class to be
left stranded for want of knowing how hard to push on the clay to get it
centered.
There is a big difference in a teaching touch, and the bossy taking over of
the wheel "HERE MOVE OVER...LET ME SHOW YOU HOW ITS DONE!"
Tommy
A kind touch never hurt anyone
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 7:43 PM
Subject: teaching methods help please
> Could someone please tell me if it is proper/correct or not for an
instructor
> to put his/her hands on a students pot or on a students hands at any time?
> Is there some unwritten rule that I don't know about?
>
> Should it be "hands off" at all times?
>
> I've been helping out at a community center for a couple of years and
have
> started about 27 people.
>
> People have said that it helps them if I throw from the other side at the
> beginning once or twice. I also like to take what they think is a
centered
> ball of clay and really center it so they can feel the difference.
> Somethimes they'll say they are done with a pot and feel there are no more
> pulls in there. I'll go to the bottom and make one last huge pull and
> transform the piece in one pull to their total amazement. Then I crash it
> and they try again.
>
> Now I've been criticized by the other pottery instructor for touching the
> students pieces.
>
> She says she would NEVER put her hands on a students pot.
>
> I've even put my hands on top of a persons hands and showed her what a
> "productive" pull feels like. I've only had to do that once with someone
who
> just wasn't getting it. I realize that this is invading someones personal
> space and I always tell them what I'm going to do before I do it.
>
> I'm forever amazed at what all these people can make now and how happy
they
> are with the learning process and how they understand the long journey.
They
> are accomplished in all the basic forms and combined forms. This isn't an
> accredited art school...just a well run and happy community pottery
studio.
> I would like to think that this speaks for itself.
>
> I couldn't find anything in the archives regarding this and I really want
to
> know if my method, if you can call it that....I basically instruct by the
> seat of my pants, is incorrect.
>
> Thanks in advance
> Carolyn
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Martin Howard on wed 24 oct 01
Carolyn, if there is a law about touching hands in pots when teaching people
to throw, then I break the rule almost every time.
I actually have my fingers on the opposite side of the pot to the student or
child, so they can feel just how the clay is moving and can see why it moves
in that way.
By having fingers of both teacher and student in the pot the student throws
pots first time and can then repeat it. Otherwise it means months of
struggle.
He or she remembers the movements of the fingers which are very difficult to
describe.
Touch teaching every time!
Take to me court if you like:-)
Is there a law about shaking hands? or dancing?
Martin Howard
Webbs Cottage Pottery
Woolpits Road, Great Saling
BRAINTREE, Essex CM7 5DZ
01371 850 423
martin@webbscottage.co.uk
http://www.webbscottage.co.uk
This web-site is being updated NOW!
Veena Raghavan on wed 24 oct 01
Hi Carolyn,
I would not worry about the other teacher or what he or she thinks of you=
r
methods. You should do what you feel is best.
I have found that putting your hands around the beginning students' hands=
is the best way for them to get the feel of the clay, of what pressure ca=
n
be applied (they are usually slightly scared of the clay and are too
tentative). It also gives them the feeling or the various moves in
centering and pulling up.
I think you are a concerned teacher, and that is so very important. I hav=
e
seen teachers, who practice the hands off method, and I usually ended up
helping their students get on the right track. They couldn't thank me
enough.
Good luck.
Veena
Veena Raghavan
75124.2520@compuserve.com
Penni Stoddart on wed 24 oct 01
Carolyn,
I have only ever taught kids' work shops and those were mostly hand building
so I will relate my answer from a student's point of view.
I have had several teachers over the past 5 years of my pottery history and
have found the hands on thing VERY helpful. I had one teacher (happened to
be male) who took my hand as if it was a pot and "pulled" on it to show me
how strong I could be with my pulls. Since then I get a good cylinder up in
about 4 pulls - very helpful.
Everytime a teacher has wanted to "fix" one of my pots (and I use the term
"fix" to mean show me how it should really look!) he or she has asked first.
Only once did I keep a pot that a teacher helped me make. It was my first
attempt at a globe shape. We were in a teapot workshop (two Tuesday evenings
in a row) and I eventually made the teapot all on my own but his help in
making that first globe was so helpful. I SAW how to do it. He sat and
talked me through finishing it, rounded it some more etc etc. I liked it so
much I trimmed, fired and glazed it. I did not sign it and it sits in my
kitchen on the top of a knic knac shelf (awaiting a use).
I guess what I am saying is that if your students don't mind why the heck
should another teacher? We all teach differently and we all learn
differently. I have found the personal touch very helpful, others may be
offended. If you ask first I don't see a problem.
~~~~
Penni Stoddart of Penelope's Pots
President, Artisans London (Ontario, Canada)
It takes fewer muscles to smile then to frown....
and fewer still to ignore someone completely. =o)
ASHPOTS@AOL.COM on wed 24 oct 01
Hi Carolyn,I also touch students pots, how can they know what a good one
feels like if they cant feel one.
I found out that a lot of adult students wont take my class because i say :
nice , cut it in half and lets see what you have thrown".
Also when i am teaching handles i dont let them have the handles i made.
Really whats the point if they use my handles.
I try to tell my students in MY class that this is a LEARING experience not a
class in how much begining pots they can take home. I am mean
Capt Mark the mean one
miriam on wed 24 oct 01
Carolyn wrote:
>
> Could someone please tell me if it is proper/correct or not for an instructor
> to put his/her hands on a students pot or on a students hands at any time?
>
If it would be helpful for the student, for me to get my hands on the
pot as the student is working on it, I do it. I always ask first if I
can. It really helps them understand the amount of pressure needed to
move the clay. One squeeze of my hands over theirs does way more than
just my talking them through it. Especially if we are not well versed
in one another's language.
Do they know beforehand that after you give their pot "one more pull"
you are going to "crash" it? If you have their informed agreement,
there is no problem. I'm thinking it might be more instructive to leave
them the pot, though, so they can use it for reference.
Mimi Stadler in NJ
John Baymore on wed 24 oct 01
Now I've been criticized by the other pottery instructor for touching the=
students pieces.
She says she would NEVER put her hands on a students pot.
I've even put my hands on top of a persons hands and showed her what a
"productive" pull feels like. I've only had to do that once with someone=
who
just wasn't getting it. I realize that this is invading someones persona=
l
space and I always tell them what I'm going to do before I do it.
Carolyn,
Sounds like YOU have a good grasp of some basic elements of good teaching=
.
Being a group of VISUAL artists........ many of us tend to be visually
dominant in our own learning. Hence, the usual emphasis on the "DEMO". =
"Hey, Bob........ let's go see Peter Volkous....he's over at the art cent=
er
today". You'll notice NCECA demos often focus on the TV monitor or the
slides and the image quality MORE than the audio quality. And so on.
However, there are a number of "ways" people learn.... learning styles,
they are usually called. A good teacher tries to find the modality that
the student is most at home in and use that format as often as possible. =
Lacking a feeling for that.... you try to hit ALL of them..... sort of th=
e
"shotgun" approach. The shotgun approach means that if you fire enough
"pellets" out there.... you're bound to hit something with some of them
. Not elegant.... but it works OK . A place to start from.
To help identify a student's modality.... listen to what they say in your=
interactions. Listen for "key" words. Phrases like "I can't grasp what
you are saying".... or "what does that feel like"....... tend to indicate=
someone who will process information well through sensations. Touch em'!=
=
Use lots of sensory metaphors. Those who tend to say things like "I can
see that."....or "can you show me how"..... process visual information we=
ll
and can learn easily from watching demos, videos, and slides. Those who=
want very detailed, technical explanations tend to learn verbally. You'l=
l
get...... "can you explain what you are doing there"....type comments fro=
m
these people. Explain and analyze everything to the Nth degree. Recommen=
d
books. Draw diagrams showing the force vectors .
And the person who just can't seem to sit still and wait for you to talk,=
demo, or get around to touching them are the "doers" of the world........=
.
if they aren't doing something.... they are fidgiting. Tapping
feet......... tapping fingers.....rapidly chewing gum......... shifting
around incessantly. Just set up the right circumstances as fast as you c=
an
for them and get out of their way . They'll try everyhing in sight...=
and figure it out mostly on their own. Your main goal is providing the t=
he
right opportunities at the right time for them to experiment with
themselves.
Sometimes a person KNOWS how they learn best....... don't be afraid to as=
k
how they get the most out of a learning situation. They might just make
your job a lot easier.
You can actually many times identify learning style by where a persons ey=
es
go when they are thinking about a "problem". See any good college level
sports science instructional text for a lot more info on this whole
subject. Basic throwing is first a mechanical, active, body-involving,
motor skill.... before you get around to the issues of WHAT someone is
making...... where it moves into the realm of the aesthetic. How people
learn motor skills is an important understanding, either formally or
intuitively, for the teacher of throwing .
SO.......... for someone who tends to process kinesthetic information
well........ "hands on" is the way to go to communicate sensations. You
go, girl!!!!! Stick by your guns. You can "verbage" a kinesthetic learn=
er
to death....... and they won't "get it". Showing is a little better
there....... but give them a feeling to relate to your verbal explanation=
s
or demos, .......... and THEN they go "AHA".
=46rom my experience from presenting with him in at the Alabama Clay
Conference..... it is clear to me that our own "mayor mel" is widely
regarded as such a good teacher and workshop leader because he understand=
s
all of this stuff SO well. He's had YEARS of experience in which to lea=
rn
that. It is not theory to him.... he owns it in his soul. So he figures=
out what a person needs...... and gives it to them. Sounds simple.... it=
ain't . Effective, mastery level teaching. =
=
There is a tendency for a person to "fall into" teaching mainly in the
style in which THEY tend to learn. The less experience you have the more=
you tend to do this. While this is particularly evident in newer teacher=
s,
it extends to all of us. Put us in a "hard" situation.... and we go righ=
t
to the good old comfort zone . We are most comfortable with relating
information in our own dominant style... and FEEL that we do it best that=
way. And we often get frustrated when someone doesn't "get it" when we
fire what we think is our "best shot". "What a dummy......... they are
clueless. Can't believe that they don't get it!"
Not always true. If you only speak French well, and I only speak English=
well........ we will still have some basic communication problems going o=
n
. If we each share a little of the other's language..... we are movin=
g
in the right direction. We both have to have a reasonable command of the=
same language for us to communicate really effectively. It is best when =
we
are both very fluent in the same one. The students you tend to "naturall=
y
connect with" are often the ones that share your own dominant learning
style . You are most easliy effective with them. You communicate wel=
l.
Not rocket science.
One issue you have to confront with any physical motor skill process is
that it IS a kinesthetic endeavor. So part of your job is also to help a=
student develop more kinesthetic awareness if it is not already well
developed. It is hard to throw well if you can'rt bring some sense of th=
e
feeling of what ios happening to the clay into play. (Not impossible....=
but difficult.) While we all have dominant tendencies...... we can be
taught to enhance our non dominant learning abilities. In this case.....=
do things that focus a person ON sensations. One great one to develop a
focus on "feeling" is blindfolded throwing. REALLY blindfolded or in a
pitch black room.
If you feel that you need to physically touch a student...... ask first..=
..
as you already mentioned. If you are working with kids....... ask your
administration first and then the kid too. And make sure that 6
million people are in the room with you when you DO put your hands i=
n
contact with theirs. (No easy answer to THIS one........... good teachin=
g
issues can sometimes go out the window when political correctness,
liability, and sexual harrassment issues come in.)
As to "finishing" or altering their pieces without the physical contact
..........
Depends on the person and the situation. Ask yourself WHY are you feelin=
g
a need to do this HERE and now? Again...... ask first if it is OK to alt=
er
their piece is some way. If they hesitate at all..... in word OR body
language....... don't do it. Find another way to communicate what you
need. Make your own piece that mirrors the aspect you want to address in=
theirs.... and then altrer your OWN.
Coming from the other way around.......... I often take an approach where=
I
will throw certain basic forms on the wheel and then have the student tak=
e
over. Sometimes I go from wheel to wheel in the room pulling basic
cylinders....and having the students take over as I get up....and around
again....and around again.....and then vary the way I have left it for
them....... and around again. "Hey....John...... this one has a thick
spot in the middle"....... "Yeah......... fix it"....... around again. I=
just keep varying the problems I leave, tailored to the needs of the
particular person whose wheel I am on. =
This often allows them to experience sensations and qualities of the clay=
that they haven't felt before. Really good for the kinesthetic and the
doer...but good for all. Heck...... what does the clay feel like when a =
2
pound cylinder is "well thinned out"? A cut up visual of that is one pie=
ce
of information..... a descriuption is another........ and a "hands on"
gives even more info. =
And so on.
And the real question in all this is ..... is the real goal the piece
itself........ or is it the learning?
Sounds like you already know a few things that it would be good to share
with your colleague. Good luck .
Best,
..............................john
John Baymore
River Bend Pottery
22 Riverbend Way
Wilton, NH 03086 USA
603-654-2752 (s)
800-900-1110 (s)
JohnBaymore.com
JBaymore@compuserve.com
John.Baymore@GSD-CO.com
"Earth, Water, and Fire Noborigama Woodfiring Workshop 2002 Dates TBA"=
Earl Brunner on wed 24 oct 01
Yeah, I always love it when I throw a demo piece and when I'm done,
slice it in half. Love the expressions, can imagine the ones that would
have difficulty doing it to their own pots. Surprisingly though after
I've done it, I will find those few students that recognize the value of
the exercise and will do it to their own pots because they know that
they will get something out of the experience. They are there to learn,
not just to make a couple of "precious" things and go home.
ASHPOTS@AOL.COM wrote:
> Hi Carolyn,I also touch students pots, how can they know what a good one
> feels like if they cant feel one.
> I found out that a lot of adult students wont take my class because i say :
> nice , cut it in half and lets see what you have thrown".
> Also when i am teaching handles i dont let them have the handles i made.
> Really whats the point if they use my handles.
> I try to tell my students in MY class that this is a LEARING experience not a
> class in how much begining pots they can take home. I am mean
>
> Capt Mark the mean one
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec/
bruec@anv.net
claybair on wed 24 oct 01
Carolyn,
I always asked permission.
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island, WA
http://claybair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of CSLPZZN@AOL.COM
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 5:44 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: teaching methods help please
Could someone please tell me if it is proper/correct or not for an
instructor
to put his/her hands on a students pot or on a students hands at any time?
Is there some unwritten rule that I don't know about?
Should it be "hands off" at all times?
I've been helping out at a community center for a couple of years and have
started about 27 people.
People have said that it helps them if I throw from the other side at the
beginning once or twice. I also like to take what they think is a centered
ball of clay and really center it so they can feel the difference.
Somethimes they'll say they are done with a pot and feel there are no more
pulls in there. I'll go to the bottom and make one last huge pull and
transform the piece in one pull to their total amazement. Then I crash it
and they try again.
Now I've been criticized by the other pottery instructor for touching the
students pieces.
She says she would NEVER put her hands on a students pot.
I've even put my hands on top of a persons hands and showed her what a
"productive" pull feels like. I've only had to do that once with someone
who
just wasn't getting it. I realize that this is invading someones personal
space and I always tell them what I'm going to do before I do it.
I'm forever amazed at what all these people can make now and how happy they
are with the learning process and how they understand the long journey.
They
are accomplished in all the basic forms and combined forms. This isn't an
accredited art school...just a well run and happy community pottery studio.
I would like to think that this speaks for itself.
I couldn't find anything in the archives regarding this and I really want to
know if my method, if you can call it that....I basically instruct by the
seat of my pants, is incorrect.
Thanks in advance
Carolyn
claybair on wed 24 oct 01
It took me a year to learn to center... I was on my own and had little to no
instructor assistance.
When asked by this same instructor to teach two women he couldn't deal with.
I taught them to center in one 2 hour class. One was a nurse who just
couldn't get it and was very anxious. I asked permission to place my hands
over hers and within minutes she "got it". I kept off her work unless she
asked for help. Several times I threw a piece like hers on a wheel across
from her mimicking her difficulty and showing her how to handle it.
Her class goal was making a large bowl. She was so happy when she made it.
It was a good thing!
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island, WA
http://claybair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of Tommy Humphries
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 7:00 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: teaching methods help please
Gosh I don't know of a way to teach someone to make a pot that wouldn't
involve touching the pot or guiding the hands occasionally. As long as the
intrusions are brief, I think that the helping touch can be a Godsend in
helping the learner see the light. BUT after showing them the way, let them
mess up a few times, don't just jump in and take over on the pot. Usually
there will be a cue from the student when they want help...when the rim is
going wompy and they look up in desperation to you...you show them again how
to steady the rim.
A clay student has to KNOW how a certain pull feels, or it will take forever
to learn. If you are in charge of TEACHING them to throw, then it should be
up to you to TEACH them how to throw, not just SHOWING them.
There is a difference
try learning to play a violin without the instructor SHOWING how hard to
hold the strings, or how much pressure to place on the bow
Learning clay is a complex task... your students didn't take the class to be
left stranded for want of knowing how hard to push on the clay to get it
centered.
There is a big difference in a teaching touch, and the bossy taking over of
the wheel "HERE MOVE OVER...LET ME SHOW YOU HOW ITS DONE!"
Tommy
A kind touch never hurt anyone
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 7:43 PM
Subject: teaching methods help please
> Could someone please tell me if it is proper/correct or not for an
instructor
> to put his/her hands on a students pot or on a students hands at any time?
> Is there some unwritten rule that I don't know about?
>
> Should it be "hands off" at all times?
>
> I've been helping out at a community center for a couple of years and
have
> started about 27 people.
>
> People have said that it helps them if I throw from the other side at the
> beginning once or twice. I also like to take what they think is a
centered
> ball of clay and really center it so they can feel the difference.
> Somethimes they'll say they are done with a pot and feel there are no more
> pulls in there. I'll go to the bottom and make one last huge pull and
> transform the piece in one pull to their total amazement. Then I crash it
> and they try again.
>
> Now I've been criticized by the other pottery instructor for touching the
> students pieces.
>
> She says she would NEVER put her hands on a students pot.
>
> I've even put my hands on top of a persons hands and showed her what a
> "productive" pull feels like. I've only had to do that once with someone
who
> just wasn't getting it. I realize that this is invading someones personal
> space and I always tell them what I'm going to do before I do it.
>
> I'm forever amazed at what all these people can make now and how happy
they
> are with the learning process and how they understand the long journey.
They
> are accomplished in all the basic forms and combined forms. This isn't an
> accredited art school...just a well run and happy community pottery
studio.
> I would like to think that this speaks for itself.
>
> I couldn't find anything in the archives regarding this and I really want
to
> know if my method, if you can call it that....I basically instruct by the
> seat of my pants, is incorrect.
>
> Thanks in advance
> Carolyn
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
william schran on wed 24 oct 01
Carolyn - That's between you and each individual student. I simply
ask my students if I may, or if they would like me to demonstrate
some technique or whatever with their pot, telling them that the pot
must be cut in half when I'm finished. If they say no, I don't touch
it and explain as best as I can verbally.
Bill
BobWicks@AOL.COM on wed 24 oct 01
Hi Mimi:
I am a firm follower of Victor Lowenfeld. Victor was a child psychologist
and later became the head of the Department of Art Education at Penn State
University? He was a strong advocate of holding the students hands when
learning the wheel. I have used this technique for the 45 years that I have
taught art. There is nothing like knowing just how much pressure to use and
when to use it. I never allow a student to keep anything that I have helped
with. Work the students make is solely their own and not the teacher's. My
students appreciated this kind of instruction and then they felt confident in
what they were trying to do. This type of teaching is almost like one on
one. Students don't get much of that today.
Good luck.
Bob Wicks, Prof.
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