putitinink@YAHOO.COM on wed 24 oct 01
How common is it for craft fairs to charge both a booth fee and ask
for a percentage of the day's sales? I'm referring to non-juried,
very small fairs (25 to 50 vendors of all types total) held as
fundraisers for schools or churches. I have no idea what attendance
might run but perhaps a few hundred or maybe a couple thousand
people??? What's reasonable for this type of situation?
What's generally considered reasonable for table fees at such sales?
I've called a number of upcoming fairs and have been quoted table
fees all over the board -- between $25 and $150.
I realize that higher booth fees are reasonable when attendance
numbers are higher and that juried shows probably draw more people
willing to spend on craft items, but it's really not practical for me
to pay a high booth fee if I have to worry about covering the cost of
the booth. At this point, I don't really have enough items to sell
at high enough prices to make an expensive booth fee worth it to me.
I'm not ready to try a juried show yet...
I've done only a couple of fairs on my own (plus a couple with other
pottery students) so any suggestions are welcome. Thanks!
Brad S. Reitz on wed 24 oct 01
Frank Mcguire, a promoter in the Southwest US, usually has two fee
schedules. One without commission, which is higher, and one with a 5%
commission schedule. I usually do the higher fee (without the 5%)
banking on gross sales being high enough to justify the difference.
Chris Jones on thu 25 oct 01
Hello, I have done many art/craft fairs and I can tell you from experience
that you have to get out there and show your work. I have found that I was
too critical of my own work and didn't think I could compete with
"established" potters. WRONG. I found I was more than competitive and have
a great time selling at art shows. As for the fees, I have not been to an
event that required both a booth fee and a commission. Most of the events I
do only charge a booth fee and it is usually between $125-175 for the show.
Go out and try some shows!
Visit www.jonespottery.net
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 4:54 PM
Subject: Fairs: Percentage of sales, fees & suggestions
> How common is it for craft fairs to charge both a booth fee and ask
> for a percentage of the day's sales? I'm referring to non-juried,
> very small fairs (25 to 50 vendors of all types total) held as
> fundraisers for schools or churches. I have no idea what attendance
> might run but perhaps a few hundred or maybe a couple thousand
> people??? What's reasonable for this type of situation?
>
> What's generally considered reasonable for table fees at such sales?
> I've called a number of upcoming fairs and have been quoted table
> fees all over the board -- between $25 and $150.
>
> I realize that higher booth fees are reasonable when attendance
> numbers are higher and that juried shows probably draw more people
> willing to spend on craft items, but it's really not practical for me
> to pay a high booth fee if I have to worry about covering the cost of
> the booth. At this point, I don't really have enough items to sell
> at high enough prices to make an expensive booth fee worth it to me.
>
> I'm not ready to try a juried show yet...
>
> I've done only a couple of fairs on my own (plus a couple with other
> pottery students) so any suggestions are welcome. Thanks!
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Gesine Rodger on thu 25 oct 01
A friend of mine who subscribes to the Sunshine Artist magazine just came
across this ad for a group who co-ordinate three shows a year (March and two
in November) in Alabama and Tennessee. Here is the e-mail address
CVFest@aol.com
They don't take any percentage of sales nor do they charge any kind of fee.
Has anyone ever attended or heard of any of these shows? Obviously they
must make money by charging admittance.
The ad reads:
all corner booths
easy drive-in
unloading assistance
credit cards accepted
church service
convenient RV parking
booth sitters
No Application Fee
No Application Deadline
Jury once for all shows
Their spring-time show is called "Cottontail's Village Arts & Crafts
Festival" and the two in November are called "Christmas Village Festival
Arts & Craft Shows. I have never heard of a show that does not charge a fee
for selling arts/crafts. I have been to shows were the fee was rather
low and then they charged a percentage of ones sales, or they took a
percentage of the sales or, a set booth fee applied depending on location
and size. I wonder why they didn't mention serving lunch.
Gesine@vaxxine.com
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 4:54 PM
Subject: Fairs: Percentage of sales, fees & suggestions
> How common is it for craft fairs to charge both a booth fee and ask
> for a percentage of the day's sales? I'm referring to non-juried,
> very small fairs (25 to 50 vendors of all types total) held as
> fundraisers for schools or churches. I have no idea what attendance
> might run but perhaps a few hundred or maybe a couple thousand
> people??? What's reasonable for this type of situation?
>
> What's generally considered reasonable for table fees at such sales?
> I've called a number of upcoming fairs and have been quoted table
> fees all over the board -- between $25 and $150.
>
> I realize that higher booth fees are reasonable when attendance
> numbers are higher and that juried shows probably draw more people
> willing to spend on craft items, but it's really not practical for me
> to pay a high booth fee if I have to worry about covering the cost of
> the booth. At this point, I don't really have enough items to sell
> at high enough prices to make an expensive booth fee worth it to me.
>
> I'm not ready to try a juried show yet...
>
> I've done only a couple of fairs on my own (plus a couple with other
> pottery students) so any suggestions are welcome. Thanks!
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Cindy Strnad on thu 25 oct 01
Dear Gesine,
They probably sell lunch. Got to pay for the event
somehow. I suspect they do this as a service to
the community, that they have their own booths as
well, that they don't make any money off the
events and don't want to, and that they hope you
and your customers will attend the church service.
But I could very well be wrong. Ask them.
Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels Pottery
RR 1, Box 51
Custer, SD 57730
USA
cindy@earthen-vessels-pottery.com
http://www.earthen-vessels-pottery.com
Jeanette Harris on thu 25 oct 01
>A friend of mine who subscribes to the Sunshine Artist magazine just came
>across this ad for a group who co-ordinate three shows a year (March and two
>in November) in Alabama and Tennessee. Here is the e-mail address
>CVFest@aol.com
>
>They don't take any percentage of sales nor do they charge any kind of fee.
>Has anyone ever attended or heard of any of these shows? Obviously they
>must make money by charging admittance.
Usually shows charge for booths and sales percentages based upon their
overhead costs and the question of if they want to make a profit. Groups
may also have a charity or a project they want to finance with the profit.
And they may have a venue that is offered to them at no cost. They also
have a volunteer workforce.
Overhead usually includes cost for venue rental (including janatorial and
insurance), PR production and other PR costs such as signs & posters, post
cards, print matter, postage. On top of overhead, a profit percentage is
added into the mix and that's basically how you arrive at the booth costs.
Taking a percentage off of sales is a bit more iffy than covering the show
costs with flat booth fees only. Also the takings from admissions could be
either up or down depending on many variables -- some as fickle as the
weather.
The pitfall with charging a percentage of the sales is that it tends to
make the organizers of shows favor booths that have high sales and not
necessarily high quality works for sale. I know of one show that has
deteriorated quite a bit in the quality of work because the promoters have
been led down this path. Their older customers who went to find good
artworks have melted away and now they are trapped in a junky-crafty show.
With no sales commission, the question of good or bad sales then rests
directly on the artist, their work, and salesmanship. Gets the organizers
out of that equasion and into the place they should be: organizing and
promoting.
I personally think sales percentages are a bad idea unless they are for
sales over a fixed amount of money and not another burden for the
artists--like $100.00 to $500.00 limit--Say 10% of sales over $100. for
small shows with low booth costs; higher percentages for higher limits.
After all, the artists have to make enough to make it worth coming back. A
salient point lost on some promoters.
Somewhere, I saw a thing that said that you should make back your show
costs on the first day; make your profit on the next one. I'm sure this is
just a rule of thumb and there are lots of times when you don't do this
good and others when you do much better than this. If we could figure out
shows that easily, we'd all be rich.
When you are considering a show, take a look at the cost/attendance ratio.
If you have access to a festival/show reference book for your region, this
information is usaually contained in the listings of shows.
If the organization is making money on attendance, they will certainly be
making the effort to get as many people into their show as possible, which
then means that they are spending a good deal of effort and money on
promoting the show. This is good--the more potential customers, the more
potential sales. Doesn't take rocket science to figure that out.
Ask other artists whose work is similar to yours if they have good sales at
what shows. Artist's word of mouth is a great resource. Established shows
with good attendance records and high standards is usually a winning
combination.
**Sometime let me tell you about an Arabian horse auction I attended that
had a free picnic lunch and open bar for two hours before the bidding
free-for-all began. heh
Hope this helps
Jeanette in Rainy Poulsbo WA
putitinink@YAHOO.COM on thu 25 oct 01
From: Chris Jones
Date: Thu Oct 25, 2001 4:32 am
Subject: Re: Fairs: Percentage of sales, fees & suggestions
Hello, I have done many art/craft fairs and I can tell you from
experience
that you have to get out there and show your work. I have found that
I was
too critical of my own work and didn't think I could compete with
"established" potters. WRONG. I found I was more than competitive
and have
a great time selling at art shows. As for the fees, I have not been
to an
event that required both a booth fee and a commission. Most of the
events I
do only charge a booth fee and it is usually between $125-175 for the
show.
Go out and try some shows!
Visit www.jonespottery.net
----- Original Message -----
Thanks for the encouragement. ;) I'm also very critical of my own
work. Other people have told me that they love some of the peices
that I've priced cheaply just to get rid of the stuff. Even what I
consider my decent work is priced very reasonably because I don't
feel it's up to competing with professional potters. I price my
stuff lower than the going rates at *real* craft fairs because 1) I
don't think mine is up to their standards, and secondly, at this
point, I'm sticking to the school fairs and bizaars rather than the
art & craft shows that draw professional artists. My guess is that
these type of events (school fairs) probably draw different crowds
from the type that goes to the juried arts and crafts fairs. I
suspect that most people who come by my booth are probably not geared
towards spending a lot on *artwork,* just supporting the school and
maybe picking up a piece of pottery on impulse.
I consider myself advanced beginner or maybe intermediate. I can
throw a decent shape on a bowl, mug, vase, pitcher, or platter, but
most of my pieces are fairly ecletic. Looking at an individual mug,
it might be a nice piece, but I can't make a whole set of them in the
same size. I haven't really practiced making sets of identical sizes
yet (though I can reproduce a shape fairly well), as I'm still
deciding what shapes and sizes I like best. For instance, I made
some mug handles that I thought were awkwardly large, but had a few
people mention that they prefered that at my last fair (one woman
commented to her friend that it was easier to grasp with her
arthritic hands). I also discovered that I prefer certain mug shapes
or bowl shapes for ease of use. So I'm still *sounding out* my own
preferences. <:} And I'm still playing around with glazes (depending
on which studio I happen to use) and patterns, so not many pieces
would really match.
Plus, I have to depend on the studios were I get my pottery fired and
they've managed to damage a good bit of my stuff. Some pieces have
been ruined by getting bits of glaze from another pot on them while
loading the kiln, breaking them (carelessness in bumping them, not
through the firing process), or even firing them on dirty shelves so
that chunks of glaze (of a color I haven't even used) and shelf gets
stuck to the bottom of my pottery. ARGH!! Very frustrating....
;)
Sue
John Baymore on fri 26 oct 01
If the organization is making money on attendance, they will certainly be=
making the effort to get as many people into their show as possible, whic=
h
then means that they are spending a good deal of effort and money on
promoting the show. This is good--the more potential customers, the more=
potential sales. Doesn't take rocket science to figure that out.
Jeanette,
Some good thoughts in your post. One comment........
They really have to BE potential customers . Not just "warm human
bodies" walking around in the fair. Unfortunately, disposable income com=
es
into the picture for what it is that we do. Although historically
clayworkers typically did......most of us don't sell "survival necessitie=
s"
anymore. On Maslow's Heiarchy....we're all working way above the bottom
tier .
One thing that unfortunately happens in the "gate" game......... where th=
e
organizers make a good chunk of their gross money from sales of
admissions........ is that they are pretty much looking ONLY at the numbe=
rs
of people through the gate...... not the TYPE of people through the gate.=
=
To them a paying body is a paying body. To the craftsperson, the TYPE of=
person matters a lot.
If your work is a little more toward the "high end" in average pricing, a=
nd
the promoters are not being selective in targeting their marketing of the=
event into a demographic segment that can AFFORD such works..... then the=
gate attendance figures mean little to such a craftsperson trying to sell=
at that show. If you are making "sculptural vessels" and the preponderan=
ce
of the fair audience is seeking out the infamous "Crocheted Pink Poodle
Ketchup Bottle Covers" (CPPKBC)........ attendance figures don't matter a=
ll
that much. And in that case, the reverse is true also .
For some people attending a show...... no matter how much they like your
work....... if there ain't no money....there ain't no money.
So just as important in seleciting a venue to sell in as the attendance
figures for the show is the average demographics of the attendees. This
information is MUCH harder to find out. Word of mouth from other
craftspeople who do work similar in nature/pricing to yours is one good
resource. Going to the show to look around before participating is
another.
I tend to track Effective Sales Penetration (ESP ) by dividing my gros=
s
booth sales by the daily attendance at the gate. Gives you a Gross Dolla=
rs
Earned per Person Attending sales figure. It is a measure of how much ea=
ch
person walking through the gate "earns" me. The higher that figure... th=
e
more effective I am being in selling to that market. If there is a 60,00=
0
total attendance figure ....... but I get a low number.......... then
either I am not doing a good "salesmanship" job, my work is no good ,
....... or those people are the wrong market for what it is that I do. I=
f
there are only 1,000 people attending the show and I get a high number...=
..
I am likely in the right place doing the right thing. STILL...... if the=
overall Gross sales figure then is still too low for the time invested fo=
r
that show....... then it is still a questionable proposition....unless th=
e
organizers can increase the attendance OF THE SAME DEMOGRAPHIC PEOPLE.
For example, compared to a big retail show..... at a major wholesale show=
,
the attendance figure is usually WAY smaller. But the sales per person
attending is very high. Not really a good direct comparision because the=
buyers at a wholesale show are representing a business..... but the base
concept is pretty similar. =
What you want at a show is people willing and ABLE to buy. They are ther=
e
SHOPPING....not for a day's entertainment in looking at the work. Then i=
t
is just a question of if they WANT to buy your work....... not if they ca=
n
afford to buy ANYTHING other than food and facepainting for the kids .=
I know one show that "inflates" it's attendance figures by inviting all t=
he
local kids camps to attend. YES...... it is an important opportunity to
educate the coming generations to handcraft...... but if you are looking =
at
attendance figures relative to SALES..... it can be very misleading. Tho=
se
kids don't buy too much other than food and the lowest priced items like
hemp necklaces and such (which IS good if that is what you make .).
(Yes..... if you are a "market driven" craftsperson ........ you then pla=
n
on making pieces that will appeal to and are priced for that market . =
But if you are the type to "make what you make" and then try to find the
correct market for it...... whole different story . Personally... I
sometimes give kids a small piece or charge them a token fee to let them
feel like they bought it...depending on the circumstances.)
I know another good show (excellent work) that tried to make a go of it a=
s
a "fine craft" venue........ but located itself into a "working class" bl=
ue
collar type town. You can guess how long that lasted . The locals
couldn't afford the higher end work...and those from elsewhere who could=
,
didn't see that town as a desireable place to go. Yes... sometimes the
promoters make mistakes and take it on the chin too .
More thoughts on the whole subject......... likely worth every cent that
you paid for them .
Best,
..............................john
John Baymore
River Bend Pottery
22 Riverbend Way
Wilton, NH 03086 USA
603-654-2752 (s)
800-900-1110 (s)
JohnBaymore.com
JBaymore@compuserve.com
John.Baymore@GSD-CO.com
"Earth, Water, and Fire Noborigama Woodfiring Workshop 2002 Dates TBA"=
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