dayton j grant on wed 24 oct 01
Hey Bill, its a bummer when you get ripped off like that
,we gotta transcend the creepy energy ,if we can.
The thing about 'throwing dry' is that it should be called 'throwing hard
clay', because it may seem weird, but the harder the clay(up to a point)
you start with, the less lubrication you need, so really to start off
with, the first step in 'throwing dry' is learning how to wedge hard
clay, but in the meantime and while we work towards that, the best
lubricant is slip thats just about the consistency of butter(with no sand
or grog) so it dosent soak into the claybody , you can use it to center
and raise a primary cylinder and then you can just wipe it off (the
slip)and i dont think you should put soap or oil or anything in it ,and
if you want it 'really' slimey(like a whale turd) you make some and keep
it in a lidded container and when it turns green around the edges and
gets that funky smell you know its ripe and extra slimey ,these posts
today have me laughin out loud ,I was born at home (on a couch they tell
me) 33 years ago this month ,my mother says it was the 30th of Oct my
father says it was the 31st and the birth certificate (signed by somebody
who wasnt there)says the 29th so ,i dont know exactly when but im gonna
be thirty three at the end of this month,wish me luck .
D.G.
Craig Martell on mon 27 jan 03
Hi:
One thing to think about if you wanna throw dry, or with little water or
slip, is torque. Water and slip eliminate, or greatly reduce torque that
is tranmitted to the clay via the brakeing action of yer fingers, sponge,
or a rib. If you adjust for this by using lighter pressure when throwing
dry or dryer, things are usually ok. I use slip and water when I throw
porcelain and use little or no water the last pull or two and none at all
except on the inside of the pot when I'm shaping with a rib.
regards, Craig Martell, Hopewell, Oregon
Lily Krakowski on thu 30 jan 03
This is like stretching strudel dough. It seems impossible till you know
how to do it, and then it is easy as pie....(I can make neither strudel
dough, nor piecrust)
1. It can be done. You can do it.
2. Run your fingertips over a highly polished piece of wood. Remember the
feel. Now run your fingers over (plane and sanded) piece of wood. Do both
several times. Make your fingers remember the different feel, the different
tension of the slide. THIS IS THE BASIC DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WET AND DRY
THROWING.
3. Throw a cylinder as you normally would. Get all water out of inside,
scrape off mud on outside and let it sit for about an hour. Time differs
with location, temperature etc. but let it set up.
4. Now with your dry hands throw a bit more on it. Little pressure, soft
touch. Try for reshaping, try for a bit more height. DO NOT try to make a
neck, nor a gallery--both of these, I find, require a bit of water.
Get used to the feel. If your ruin the thing, make another and another.
5. Throw another cylinder, this time going only through the preliminary
pulls. Dry your hands and the pot as above, let it set up if necessary, and
now pull it up with dry hands. If you use a gentle touch, and slow your
wheel down a bit (what's the hurry? Another pot will come along any
minute!) you should succeed.
6. Center an open a lump of clay as you normally have. Dry the thing
thoroughly, sponge inside, mud scraped off outside,dry your hands and finish
your pot.
These steps require practice. What gets people into trouble is that they
pick up some water or mud from the wheelhead or bucket and get it on the
pot and then their fingers slip on it, just as you would slip if you hitn
ice on an otherwise dry road.
For making galleries, or for closing in a lot, as for a neck, you do need
some water. However, ask Noah, the Flood is over and done with and you do
not need to create a hippo wallow in your studio.
The best part of throwing dry is that one stays dry, the floor stays dry.
the walls stay clean. We all learned to throw dry when we used German style
kickwheels--if you throw wet you have a permanently wet and muddy crotch and
red,raw, chapped inner thighs. Thanks a lot.
There was a piece on throwing dry in a Ceramics Monthly. I found it and
sent a copy to one of us, snailmail, a while back. Maybe she remembers what
the issue was....
Lili Krakowski
P.O Box #1
Constableville, N.Y.
(315) 942-5916/ 397-2389
Be of good courage....
Hendrix, Taylor J. on thu 30 jan 03
Thanks Lili. I found the CM article. Vol 21, No 8 pp 22-26.(Oct 1973).
Ivor had suggested it a wile back. Found it in the archives. Some
REALLY bad (good?) dressers in the 70's. Funny thing is potters still
dress that way!
taylor
-----Original Message-----
From: Lily Krakowski [mailto:mlkrakowski@CITLINK.NET]
...
There was a piece on throwing dry in a Ceramics Monthly. I found it and
sent a copy to one of us, snailmail, a while back. Maybe she remembers =
what
the issue was....
Lily Krakowski on wed 26 mar 03
Throwing dry is no big deal.
The first thing to understand is that whether you pour a gallon of water
over the lump of clay on your wheel, or a mere 1/2 cup, once you stgart
spinning the wheel all but a minute amount of this water will spin off.
Onto the wall, the floor, you.
You start then by using ONLY the amount that actually is needed. Which is
very little.
You use water--a small amount only, generally obtained simply by wetting the
hands--when centering and opening.
The clay is then dried with a sponge on the inside, a metal rib, or credit
card on the outside,ALL water wiped off the bat or wheelhead, and the hands
dried thoroughly.
You then throw. The drag, the traction, whatever it is called, will be
different than if you are playing Noah throwing in the Flood. At the
beginning while you are getting used to this different feel, it is best to
work slowly. After a little while it will feel normal.
A little water may be needed to form a gallery, or the lip. A little.
It is a simple question of practice. Nothing in clay but is...
Lili Krakowski
P.O. Box #1
Constableville, N.Y.
(315) 942-5916/ 397-2389
Be of good courage....
lili krakowski on fri 31 oct 03
Throwing dry is a decision.
For one: in the days of kickwheels (not the treadle, but the Continal or =
German style) one got a crotch full of mud if one threw wet. This might =
have amuysing aspects in Summer, but not in cold weather.
Thank goodness kickwheels turn slowly. Because they turn slowly one =
throws slower. Because one throws slower there is less drag.
One therefore can use softer clay and less water. =20
Having said all that: today with electric wheels production throwers =
try for speed. You do not need to.
Use softer clay. Do not pour water over the clay, but wet your hands. =
(I use water). Keep a sponge handy and wipe up excess water from the =
wheel when necessary. Use wet hands when opening. Now you scrape mud =
OFF with a rib (credit cards are good here) dry your hands and throw =
dry. YOU CAN DO IT if you go slowly. As I have said before about 60 =
revolutions a minute is enough.
It takes practice. But in a few hours you should have it.
John Rodgers on sat 1 nov 03
I don't throw "Dry" really, but I do throw drier than I use to. In the
beginning I used water, but learned through the Clayart List to throw
with a clay slurry instead. Boy did that make my throwing easier.
Now-a-days if I don't have a slurry accumulated from throwing the day
before, I throw a bit of clay in a small bucket with water, hit it just
a bit with my wand mixer/blender and I have instant slurry. I usually
don't let a slurry sit more than a couple of days or so as t ets smelly.
I don't like the addition of chemicals to keep the smell down, so I just
make some more slurry. It's easy enough when you are setting up for a
days worth of throwing. Sometimes I make a stiff slurry and sometimes a
more runny slurry, just depends on what I am doing that day.
Regards,
John Rodgers
Chelsea, AL
lili krakowski wrote:
>Throwing dry is a decision.
>
>For one: in the days of kickwheels (not the treadle, but the Continal or German style) one got a crotch full of mud if one threw wet. This might have amuysing aspects in Summer, but not in cold weather.
>
>Thank goodness kickwheels turn slowly. Because they turn slowly one throws slower. Because one throws slower there is less drag.
>
>One therefore can use softer clay and less water.
>
>Having said all that: today with electric wheels production throwers try for speed. You do not need to.
>
>Use softer clay. Do not pour water over the clay, but wet your hands. (I use water). Keep a sponge handy and wipe up excess water from the wheel when necessary. Use wet hands when opening. Now you scrape mud OFF with a rib (credit cards are good here) dry your hands and throw dry. YOU CAN DO IT if you go slowly. As I have said before about 60 revolutions a minute is enough.
>
>It takes practice. But in a few hours you should have it.
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
Lee Love on sun 2 nov 03
----- Original Message -----
From: "lili krakowski"
>For one: in the days of kickwheels (not the treadle, but the Continal or
German style)
>one got a crotch full of mud if one threw wet. This might have amuysing
aspects in
>Summer, but not in cold weather.
I've not used a splash pan since I left St. Paul. Nobody uses
them here. Most wheels sit inside of platforms. My wheel head is just
low enough in relationship to the throwing platform, so that a board laid
across the hole above the wheel head won't touch. The water I use barely
touches the wheelhead when I throw off the hump. If any water or mud I
get on my legs, it is when my hand travels from the throwing bowl to the
hump. My clay is very soft. There is no stress on my arms or wrists
when I wedge. I wedge everything by hand and don't currently own a
pugmill.
My platform wasn't totally enclosed, until a new kitten adopted us
(we rescued it from a rice field the day before they run the combine through
it.) He pissed in the clay below the wheel once and I boarded up the
sides of the platform and I cover the hole with boards at the end of the
day. I clean the trimmings out once a cycle. The new kitten usually
sits beside me on his own cushion when I throw.
--
Lee In Mashiko, Japan
http://Mashiko.org
Web Log (click on recent date):
http://www.livejournal.com/users/togeika/calendar
Tig Dupre on wed 5 nov 03
I throw a porcelanous body, using slip or thick glaze (makes neat patterns!). When I taught classes, I showed the students how to use very little water, and thus be able to work the clay longer. The interesting thing was that the students still tried to work the wheel at Warp Factor 9.
If I had my way, I'd teach students how to use a kickwheel, and have them build it before they used it. I learned that when there is a problem with a lump of clay, a student will forget to kick and the wheel will stop. If there is a problem on an electric, the student follows the Home Improvement theory of "MORE POWER!" And everyone else get sprayed with clay juice or flying lumps. Pretty interesting.
Slow is more better!
Now, if I can just get those walls a *little* thinner...
Best to all,
Tig
in Port Orchard, WA
Lili Krakowski on mon 26 mar 07
There is noting new, nor remarkable, nor eccentric in throwing dry. It was
in the 80s if not earlier that Ceramics Monthly had a long well-illustrated
piece on it. And the Archives must mention it...
Anyone who has thrown on a Continental kickwheel knows how muddy one can
get if one throws "wet". In winter chapping becomes a debilitating problem.
When one throws dry one stays--guess what?--drier, as well as cleaner.
Cleaning the wheel area becomes a cinch. The only time one uses one's
splashpan is for trimming (for which, in my opinion, commercial sps are too
small in diameter.
To throw dry.
1. Use clay on the softer side.
2. Center and open, using a minimum of water.
3. With a sponge, dry the pot inside, outside, as well as the wheelhead.
4. Clean and DRY your hands.
5. With the wheel turning slowly, start to throw. You will feel a small
"drag". Get over it. After some practice the drag will feel normal, your
hands will move speedily, and you will not be collecting yuk along the way.
6. You will use your ribs dry as well. Remember? We all dried our pots
before ribbing, anyhow?
7.For finishing the rim with a leather, or pulling a spout use a little
water or slurry.
I do not think it slows the speed of throwing, once one has learned how to
do it. For me it speeds things up as I am not wasting time mopping myself,
the wheel etc.
Lili Krakowski
Be of good courage
Ivor and Olive Lewis on tue 27 mar 07
Lili Krakowski tells us
<was
in the 80s if not earlier that Ceramics Monthly had a long =
well-illustrated
piece on it. And the Archives must mention it....>>
True Lili, I have given the references several times over the past five =
years or so. But nothing was said about leather gloves and steel =
fingertips. The only time I could have used such accessories was when I =
got a sample of local brick clay and did not subject it to blunging and =
filtering. It contained slivers of white Quartz which had razor sharp =
edges.
Best regards,
Ivor
Earl Brunner on tue 27 mar 07
When I was in school we learned to throw with minimal water, just enough
water to lightly lubricate the surface. No dripping or running water
collecting in the splash pan. After getting the cylinder up, little or no
water was used to shape. Often if the pot was lost, the clay would be dryer
than when you started.
Some of the potters in our advanced studio threw incredibly thin, big, light
pots, too light in my opinion. You had to be careful when you dampened the
clay, if you got a drip of actual water on the surface, that one spot would
soak it up and become softer/weaker than the rest of the pot and put the
whole pot in jeopardy.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lili Krakowski [mailto:mlkrakowski@CITLINK.NET]
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 7:31 AM
Subject: Throwing dry
There is noting new, nor remarkable, nor eccentric in throwing dry. It was
in the 80s if not earlier that Ceramics Monthly had a long well-illustrated
piece on it. And the Archives must mention it...
Anyone who has thrown on a Continental kickwheel knows how muddy one can
get if one throws "wet". In winter chapping becomes a debilitating problem.
When one throws dry one stays--guess what?--drier, as well as cleaner.
Cleaning the wheel area becomes a cinch. The only time one uses one's
splashpan is for trimming (for which, in my opinion, commercial sps are too
small in diameter.
To throw dry.
1. Use clay on the softer side.
2. Center and open, using a minimum of water.
3. With a sponge, dry the pot inside, outside, as well as the wheelhead.
4. Clean and DRY your hands.
5. With the wheel turning slowly, start to throw. You will feel a small
"drag". Get over it. After some practice the drag will feel normal, your
hands will move speedily, and you will not be collecting yuk along the way.
6. You will use your ribs dry as well. Remember? We all dried our pots
before ribbing, anyhow?
7.For finishing the rim with a leather, or pulling a spout use a little
water or slurry.
I do not think it slows the speed of throwing, once one has learned how to
do it. For me it speeds things up as I am not wasting time mopping myself,
the wheel etc.
Lili Krakowski
Be of good courage
Rogier Donker on thu 29 mar 07
Hey Lili!
Sure glad there's someone else out there who does not use
five gallons of water to throw.... I too was taught to throw "dry" by
the late Karl Martz. Never could understand why people get so muddy
and have water flying all over the place when throwing a pot. Of
course I'm the guy who threw pots single handedly ,dressed in a
tuxedo, at the 1974 NCECA convention in Chicago... been doing those
school demos for 42 years in shirt and tie, nary a clay spot on me....
Rogier
See us on the web at http://www.donkerstudio.org
Eric Hansen on sat 31 mar 07
These are good practices. They encourage proper hand
and finger positions. When pulling up I have had to
learn not to dig in with the fingers but gently use
the sides of the finger more like you would with
wooden ribs.
I have a slop bucket, and use slop intead of water
about the thickness between buttermilk and sour cream.
Now I am trying adding a little bentonite to the slop
as a lubricant. s long as the hands stay lubricated
the clay can be kept as dry as possible. I will post
results on how the bentonite affects surfaces.
H A M B O N E ( E R I C )
> To throw dry.
> 1. Use clay on the softer side.
> 2. Center and open, using a minimum of water.
> 3. With a sponge, dry the pot inside, outside, as
> well as the wheelhead.
> 4. Clean and DRY your hands.
> 5. With the wheel turning slowly, start to throw.
> You will feel a small
> "drag". Get over it. After some practice the drag
> will feel normal, your
> hands will move speedily, and you will not be
> collecting yuk along the way.
> 6. You will use your ribs dry as well. Remember?
> We all dried our pots
> before ribbing, anyhow?
> 7.For finishing the rim with a leather, or pulling a
> spout use a little
> water or slurry.
>
> I do not think it slows the speed of throwing, once
> one has learned how to
> do it. For me it speeds things up as I am not
> wasting time mopping myself,
> the wheel etc.
>
>
> Lili Krakowski
> Be of good courage
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change
> your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
TV dinner still cooling?
Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
http://tv.yahoo.com/
| |
|
