Cathi Newlin on fri 26 oct 01

Maybe a floating stock tank heater like we use for the horses' and goats'
water?
They're about $25 and available and most feed stores...


At 02:45 PM 10/26/01, you wrote:
>an old crock pot works great....
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>"My problem is that my water source is a 350 gal. cistern filled by run-off
>from the garage roof, and while it never freezes hard enough or long enough
>here to freeze the water, it's cold all heck. My hands suffer. I'd love to
>find a way to safely and easily, maybe I should say cheaply, heat it up to a
>reasonable temperature. Any one have ideas there?"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org You may look at the archives for
>the list or change your subscription settings from
>http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/ Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who
>may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.

C Newlin, typicalgirl@stinkbalm.com
StinkBalm!
Midwest Boxer Rescues

Snail Scott on fri 26 oct 01

At 11:06 AM 10/25/01 EDT, you wrote:
>My question is this... my studio is a seperate building out in the back yard,
>it is heated with a space heater, when i am in there. My concern is, as the
>weather gets colder at nite, do I need to worry about drying work and the
>cold temps? Any experiences anyone might care to share?


Marie-

I used to work in a detached studio with a space heater.
(Still do, actually.) The big problem was lack of insulaton.
With my current studio, there is enough insulation that if
the studio was adequately warm the night before when I
quit work, it generally wouldn't freeze by the next day.
In my old uninsulated space, it would freeze.

Frozen clay gets a very weird texture, due, I suspect, to
the formation of ice crystals. Although largely irrelevant
with raw clay, it is a real pain in the ass when it happens
to work in progress. I'm noy sure how much it affects the
structural strength of the clay, but it did seem to make it
weaker. The strange surface texture was re-workable, but I
was never really confident of the strength of the clay in
pieces where I was pushing the limits even before the freeze.

I never wanted to risk running the space heater unattended
in my ramshackle old building. I did do a few low-budget
solutions which worked for me, more or less.

1. I tried to have only a few pieces in wet clay at a time.

2. I would cover them with damp cloth, then plastic bags.
(I do this in the summer, too, to keep the clay wet, but
in the winter I used lots more cloth, hot water, and black
trash bags under blankets.)

3. I tried light bulbs for heat, but they tended to cause
hot (and therefore dry) spots nearest the bulbs. I had to
put the bulbs as close as possible without melting the
plastic, and I was reluctant to enclose the bulbs with the
piece for fear of fire. It worked, but not very well.
(Those 100W incandescents sure pump out the heat; could
be they helped keep the whole space warmer.) Smaller,
portable work might lend itself to building a 'hot box'
with a lightbulb inside, suitably baffled. Maybe doing
double duty as a damp box in the dry season?

4. Eventually, I started combing the thrift stores for
electric blankets with working controllers. I would wrap
the blanket around the piece, and put the controller on
'low'. It didn't melt the plastic, and the heat was more
even than the lightbulb method.

All in all, insulating the studio seems the most efficient.
The effort was considerable, I had to clear out the studio
while I did it, and the cash outlay was more than I could
have paid back then, but it's a much more comfortable
workspace now, in addition to the no-freeze benefit. I used
that silver-covered 1 1/2" foam board, which seemed to have
the best R-value-to-cost ratio at my local builders' supply.

If I have to leave town in winter, I try to finish all the
claywork in progress and get it mostly dry. If I did have
to leave wet work for a few days, though, I'd probably go
back to the electric-blanket method.
-Snail

Chris Jones on fri 26 oct 01

Maybe you could keep another barrel near your kiln? The radient heat =
keeps my clay warm. If you use a space heater, keep some throwing water =
near the heater. Just some ideas.
Visit www.jonespottery.net =20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Darla=20
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=20
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 3:45 PM
Subject: Re: cold studios



an old crock pot works great....=20




"My problem is that my water source is a 350 gal. cistern filled =
by run-off
from the garage roof, and while it never freezes hard enough or =
long enough
here to freeze the water, it's cold all heck. My hands suffer. =
I'd love to
find a way to safely and easily, maybe I should say cheaply, heat =
it up to a
reasonable temperature. Any one have ideas there?"








Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com=20

=
_________________________________________________________________________=
_____ Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org You may look at the =
archives for the list or change your subscription settings from =
http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/ Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson =
who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.=20

CMG on fri 26 oct 01

I live in Montana, almost on the border of Canada. It's cold here, I =
mean cold, my studio is heated with a propane heater, hangs on the wall =
has a thermostat and was not expensive. In the summer I get a nice =
breeze through open windows, it gets hot here in the summer not Phoenix =
hot but hot for us northerners. I keep my water in jugs and add boiling =
water from a cheap electric perc. coffee pot, very little energy used, =
doesn't take much to warm up my throwing water. All in all its a very =
nice situation. I turn the heat down to almost nothing at night. After =
slogging through the snow to get to the studio there is no nicer sound =
then that hum of the propane burning...well unless it's the sound of the =
crackling fire I just left in the wood stove in the house.=20

Oh and the tool with the pointed metal with a ball on the tip is called =
a stylus. Use that for signing my name, or my other favorite, an old =
worn out pen. Cheap, I swear potters are cheap, or maybe more well put =
inventive. That's it, we're not cheap we're inventive. =20

I also had a question about peoples pit firings. How can it be called a =
pit firing if it isn't in a pit??? I don't need an answer or discussion =
on that one. Just an observation.

Klyf Brown on sat 27 oct 01

Hardware stores sell "heat tape". It is like an extension cord that is flat
and will keep it's shape when bent. Sold in varying lengths and kick in
temps. They are meant to be wraped around water pipes to keep
them from freezing. I think they can also be used in conjunction with
insulation.
Not sure of the safety implications of this one, but i put my slip bucket
(a five gallon plastic can) on a heating pad. The kind you use for sore
body parts and flip it on medium overnight. Unplug it when in use. I
think as long as it is on a concrete slab and plugged into a GFCI outlet
it will be safe enough.
For even warmer buckets, duct tape the heating pad to the side of the
bucket and wrap the entire bucket in radiant barrier (two layers of
bubble pack stuck together and coated on both surfaces with
aluminum. Cover the lid in the barrier too. Set on high the heating pad
will keep the contents at nearly 90 degrees. Set on low it keeps it nice
and toasty and does not cost that much to run.

Klyf Brown in Southern (we don't do winter) New Mexico
I hate being cold. My hands don't work when cold.

10/26/01 9:42:06 AM, Wanda Holmes at Alistia
wrote:

>I keep a small electric heater with an automatic thermostat in my
studio
>(it's a room off the garage - insululated but not heated by any other
>means). I set the thermostat to just about freezing, say 40 degrees,
when
>I'm not working. My work does dry slower, but I've never had any
problem
>with materials or the work itself.
>
>My problem is that my water source is a 350 gal. cistern filled by
run-off
>from the garage roof, and while it never freezes hard enough or long
enough
>here to freeze the water, it's cold all heck. My hands suffer. I'd love
to
>find a way to safely and easily, maybe I should say cheaply, heat it
up to a
>reasonable temperature. Any one have ideas there?
>
>Wanda
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List
[mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
>Behalf Of Penni Stoddart
>Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 8:38 PM
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: Re: cold studios
>
>
>Marie,
>My studio is in our heated garage. There is a gas heater attached to
one
>wall that heats things up quite well. However, if I am not out there it
is
>turned right down to about nothing. Being the "Great WHite North"
it gets
>quite cold in there.
>My only problem is in drying times. My work dries a lot slower in
the cold,
>damp garage in the winter then it does in the summer. However, a
very humid
>summer will do the same thing to some extent.
>As long as things don't freeze I think you just need to be aware that
it
>will take longer to dry things then usual.
>I am no expert mind you. Just my humble opinion.
>~~~~
>Penni Stoddart of Penelope's Pots
>President, Artisans London (Ontario, Canada)
>
>It takes fewer muscles to smile then to frown....
>and fewer still to ignore someone completely. =o)
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Marie Gibbons"
>To:
>Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 11:06 AM
>Subject: cold studios
>
>
>> Hello Clayarters...
>> I have a question about outdoor studios... I have just finished
building
>> myself a studio... it is beautiful, I am thrilled, and now my family
gets
>the
>> living room and the coffee table back, as that is where I have
worked for
>the
>> last 6 years!
>> My question is this... my studio is a seperate building out in the
back
>yard,
>> it is heated with a space heater, when i am in there. My concern
is, as
>the
>> weather gets colder at nite, do I need to worry about drying work
and the
>> cold temps? Any experiences anyone might care to share?
>>
>> Marie Gibbons
>> www.oooladies.com
>>
>>
>___________________________________________________
_________________________
>__
>> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
>> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>
>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
>
>___________________________________________________
_________________________
>__
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
>
>___________________________________________________
___________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
>

Russel Fouts on sat 27 oct 01

Marie,

>> I have just finished building myself a studio... it is beautiful, I am thrilled, and now my family gets the living room and the coffee table back, as that is where I have worked for the last 6 years! My question is this... my studio is a seperate building out in the back yard, it is heated with a space heater, when i am in there. My concern is, as the weather gets colder at nite, do I need to worry about drying work and the cold temps? Any experiences anyone might care to share? <<

Didn't the Airstream work out?

Russel
____________________________________________________________________________
--


Russel Fouts
Mes Potes et Mes Pots
Brussels, Belgium
Tel: +32 2 223 02 75
Fax: +32 2 210 04 06
Mobile: +32 476 55 38 75
Web: www.mypots.com

Earl Brunner on sun 28 oct 01

Electric blankets and heating pads will work, but I've read cautions on
them about putting weight on them. Apparently they can overheat or short
out. I would put them on or over something before under something.

Klyf Brown wrote:

> Hardware stores sell "heat tape". It is like an extension cord that is flat
> and will keep it's shape when bent. Sold in varying lengths and kick in
> temps. They are meant to be wraped around water pipes to keep
> them from freezing. I think they can also be used in conjunction with
> insulation.
> Not sure of the safety implications of this one, but i put my slip bucket
> (a five gallon plastic can) on a heating pad. The kind you use for sore
> body parts and flip it on medium overnight. Unplug it when in use. I
> think as long as it is on a concrete slab and plugged into a GFCI outlet
> it will be safe enough.
> For even warmer buckets, duct tape the heating pad to the side of the
> bucket and wrap the entire bucket in radiant barrier (two layers of
> bubble pack stuck together and coated on both surfaces with
> aluminum. Cover the lid in the barrier too. Set on high the heating pad
> will keep the contents at nearly 90 degrees. Set on low it keeps it nice
> and toasty and does not cost that much to run.
>
> Klyf Brown in Southern (we don't do winter) New Mexico
> I hate being cold. My hands don't work when cold.
>
> 10/26/01 9:42:06 AM, Wanda Holmes at Alistia
> wrote:
>
>
>> I keep a small electric heater with an automatic thermostat in my
>
> studio
>
>> (it's a room off the garage - insululated but not heated by any other
>> means). I set the thermostat to just about freezing, say 40 degrees,
>
> when
>
>> I'm not working. My work does dry slower, but I've never had any
>
> problem
>
>> with materials or the work itself.
>>
>> My problem is that my water source is a 350 gal. cistern filled by
>
> run-off
>>from the garage roof, and while it never freezes hard enough or long
> enough
>
>> here to freeze the water, it's cold all heck. My hands suffer. I'd love
>
> to
>
>> find a way to safely and easily, maybe I should say cheaply, heat it
>
> up to a
>
>> reasonable temperature. Any one have ideas there?
>>
>> Wanda
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List
>
> [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
>
>> Behalf Of Penni Stoddart
>> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 8:38 PM
>> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>> Subject: Re: cold studios
>>
>>
>> Marie,
>> My studio is in our heated garage. There is a gas heater attached to
>
> one
>
>> wall that heats things up quite well. However, if I am not out there it
>
> is
>
>> turned right down to about nothing. Being the "Great WHite North"
>
> it gets
>
>> quite cold in there.
>> My only problem is in drying times. My work dries a lot slower in
>
> the cold,
>
>> damp garage in the winter then it does in the summer. However, a
>
> very humid
>
>> summer will do the same thing to some extent.
>> As long as things don't freeze I think you just need to be aware that
>
> it
>
>> will take longer to dry things then usual.
>> I am no expert mind you. Just my humble opinion.
>> ~~~~
>> Penni Stoddart of Penelope's Pots
>> President, Artisans London (Ontario, Canada)
>>
>> It takes fewer muscles to smile then to frown....
>> and fewer still to ignore someone completely. =o)
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Marie Gibbons"
>> To:
>> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 11:06 AM
>> Subject: cold studios
>>
>>
>>
>>> Hello Clayarters...
>>> I have a question about outdoor studios... I have just finished
>>
> building
>
>>> myself a studio... it is beautiful, I am thrilled, and now my family
>>
> gets
>
>> the
>>
>>> living room and the coffee table back, as that is where I have
>>
> worked for
>
>> the
>>
>>> last 6 years!
>>> My question is this... my studio is a seperate building out in the
>>
> back
>
>> yard,
>>
>>> it is heated with a space heater, when i am in there. My concern
>>
> is, as
>
>> the
>>
>>> weather gets colder at nite, do I need to worry about drying work
>>
> and the
>
>>> cold temps? Any experiences anyone might care to share?
>>>
>>> Marie Gibbons
>>> www.oooladies.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ___________________________________________________
>
> _________________________
>
>> __
>>
>>> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>>
>>> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
>>
> subscription
>
>>> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>>
>>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>>
>> melpots@pclink.com.
>>
>> ___________________________________________________
>
> _________________________
>
>> __
>> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>
>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>> melpots@pclink.com.
>>
>> ___________________________________________________
>
> ___________________________
>
>> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>
>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.


--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec/
bruec@anv.net

Earl Brunner on sun 28 oct 01

Thanksgiving weekend 1977. Left the studio with $2000.00 worth of
greenware in central Utah and went to have Thanksgiving with the family
in Vegas. The landlord decided to conserve energy while I was gone and
turned the heat off. Lost every pot. Unable to deliver any of my last
few Christmas orders.

However you work it out, don't let wet pots freeze and it's better if
your clay can be stored somewhere warmer. I hated throwing clay that
was a couple degrees above freezing.

Connie Christensen wrote:

> Hi Marie
>
> I've had one experience with this when I left a leather hard pot in my
> car overnight in freezing weather. After it thawed, it sort of fell
> apart. It might be a good idea to try to keep your studio (or at least
> your work) above freezing.
>
> One thought is instead of a damp box, create a heat box. An enclosed
> cabinet with a light bulb or two on in it at night to create enough heat
> to prevent freezing. Then you don't have to heat the whole studio.
>
> Connie
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.


--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec/
bruec@anv.net

Earl Brunner on sun 28 oct 01

One of those little desktop coffee mug heaters in your throwing water.
Your throwing water in a crock pot.

Wanda Holmes at Alistia wrote:

> I keep a small electric heater with an automatic thermostat in my studio
> (it's a room off the garage - insululated but not heated by any other
> means). I set the thermostat to just about freezing, say 40 degrees, when
> I'm not working. My work does dry slower, but I've never had any problem
> with materials or the work itself.
>
> My problem is that my water source is a 350 gal. cistern filled by run-off
> from the garage roof, and while it never freezes hard enough or long enough
> here to freeze the water, it's cold all heck. My hands suffer. I'd love to
> find a way to safely and easily, maybe I should say cheaply, heat it up to a
> reasonable temperature. Any one have ideas there?
>
> Wanda
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
> Behalf Of Penni Stoddart
> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 8:38 PM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: cold studios
>
>
> Marie,
> My studio is in our heated garage. There is a gas heater attached to one
> wall that heats things up quite well. However, if I am not out there it is
> turned right down to about nothing. Being the "Great WHite North" it gets
> quite cold in there.
> My only problem is in drying times. My work dries a lot slower in the cold,
> damp garage in the winter then it does in the summer. However, a very humid
> summer will do the same thing to some extent.
> As long as things don't freeze I think you just need to be aware that it
> will take longer to dry things then usual.
> I am no expert mind you. Just my humble opinion.
> ~~~~
> Penni Stoddart of Penelope's Pots
> President, Artisans London (Ontario, Canada)
>
> It takes fewer muscles to smile then to frown....
> and fewer still to ignore someone completely. =o)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marie Gibbons"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 11:06 AM
> Subject: cold studios
>
>
>
>> Hello Clayarters...
>> I have a question about outdoor studios... I have just finished building
>> myself a studio... it is beautiful, I am thrilled, and now my family gets
>
> the
>
>> living room and the coffee table back, as that is where I have worked for
>
> the
>
>> last 6 years!
>> My question is this... my studio is a seperate building out in the back
>
> yard,
>
>> it is heated with a space heater, when i am in there. My concern is, as
>
> the
>
>> weather gets colder at nite, do I need to worry about drying work and the
>> cold temps? Any experiences anyone might care to share?
>>
>> Marie Gibbons
>> www.oooladies.com
>>
>>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> __
>
>> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>
>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.


--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec/
bruec@anv.net

Klyf Brown on mon 29 oct 01

That is something I have concerns about as well. That is one reason I
only use it on a GFCI circuit. Probably still isn't safe.
But there is that pesky law about heat rising.
Klyf Brown

10/28/01 8:11:37 PM, Earl Brunner
wrote:

>Electric blankets and heating pads will work, but I've read cautions
on
>them about putting weight on them. Apparently they can overheat or
short
>out. I would put them on or over something before under
something.
>
>Klyf Brown wrote:
>
>> Hardware stores sell "heat tape". It is like an extension cord that is
flat
>> and will keep it's shape when bent. Sold in varying lengths and
kick in
>> temps. They are meant to be wraped around water pipes to keep
>> them from freezing. I think they can also be used in conjunction
with
>> insulation.
>> Not sure of the safety implications of this one, but i put my slip
bucket
>> (a five gallon plastic can) on a heating pad. The kind you use for
sore
>> body parts and flip it on medium overnight. Unplug it when in use.
I
>> think as long as it is on a concrete slab and plugged into a GFCI
outlet
>> it will be safe enough.
>> For even warmer buckets, duct tape the heating pad to the side of
the
>> bucket and wrap the entire bucket in radiant barrier (two layers of
>> bubble pack stuck together and coated on both surfaces with
>> aluminum. Cover the lid in the barrier too. Set on high the heating
pad
>> will keep the contents at nearly 90 degrees. Set on low it keeps it
nice
>> and toasty and does not cost that much to run.
>>
>> Klyf Brown in Southern (we don't do winter) New Mexico
>> I hate being cold. My hands don't work when cold.
>>
>> 10/26/01 9:42:06 AM, Wanda Holmes at Alistia
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I keep a small electric heater with an automatic thermostat in my
>>
>> studio
>>
>>> (it's a room off the garage - insululated but not heated by any
other
>>> means). I set the thermostat to just about freezing, say 40
degrees,
>>
>> when
>>
>>> I'm not working. My work does dry slower, but I've never had
any
>>
>> problem
>>
>>> with materials or the work itself.
>>>
>>> My problem is that my water source is a 350 gal. cistern filled by
>>
>> run-off
>>>from the garage roof, and while it never freezes hard enough or
long
>> enough
>>
>>> here to freeze the water, it's cold all heck. My hands suffer. I'd
love
>>
>> to
>>
>>> find a way to safely and easily, maybe I should say cheaply, heat
it
>>
>> up to a
>>
>>> reasonable temperature. Any one have ideas there?
>>>
>>> Wanda
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List
>>
>> [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
>>
>>> Behalf Of Penni Stoddart
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 8:38 PM
>>> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>>> Subject: Re: cold studios
>>>
>>>
>>> Marie,
>>> My studio is in our heated garage. There is a gas heater attached
to
>>
>> one
>>
>>> wall that heats things up quite well. However, if I am not out
there it
>>
>> is
>>
>>> turned right down to about nothing. Being the "Great WHite
North"
>>
>> it gets
>>
>>> quite cold in there.
>>> My only problem is in drying times. My work dries a lot slower
in
>>
>> the cold,
>>
>>> damp garage in the winter then it does in the summer. However,
a
>>
>> very humid
>>
>>> summer will do the same thing to some extent.
>>> As long as things don't freeze I think you just need to be aware
that
>>
>> it
>>
>>> will take longer to dry things then usual.
>>> I am no expert mind you. Just my humble opinion.
>>> ~~~~
>>> Penni Stoddart of Penelope's Pots
>>> President, Artisans London (Ontario, Canada)
>>>
>>> It takes fewer muscles to smile then to frown....
>>> and fewer still to ignore someone completely. =o)
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Marie Gibbons"
>>> To:
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 11:06 AM
>>> Subject: cold studios
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hello Clayarters...
>>>> I have a question about outdoor studios... I have just finished
>>>
>> building
>>
>>>> myself a studio... it is beautiful, I am thrilled, and now my family
>>>
>> gets
>>
>>> the
>>>
>>>> living room and the coffee table back, as that is where I have
>>>
>> worked for
>>
>>> the
>>>
>>>> last 6 years!
>>>> My question is this... my studio is a seperate building out in the
>>>
>> back
>>
>>> yard,
>>>
>>>> it is heated with a space heater, when i am in there. My
concern
>>>
>> is, as
>>
>>> the
>>>
>>>> weather gets colder at nite, do I need to worry about drying
work
>>>
>> and the
>>
>>>> cold temps? Any experiences anyone might care to share?
>>>>
>>>> Marie Gibbons
>>>> www.oooladies.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
___________________________________________________
>>
>> _________________________
>>
>>> __
>>>
>>>> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>>>
>>>> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
>>>
>> subscription
>>
>>>> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>>>
>>>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>>>
>>> melpots@pclink.com.
>>>
>>>
___________________________________________________
>>
>> _________________________
>>
>>> __
>>> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>>
>>> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
>>> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>>
>>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>>> melpots@pclink.com.
>>>
>>>
___________________________________________________
>>
>> ___________________________
>>
>>> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>>
>>> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
>>> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>>
>>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>>
>> melpots@pclink.com.
>>
>>>
>>
>>
____________________________________________________
__________________________
>> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
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>> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>
>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>--
>Earl Brunner
>http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec/
>bruec@anv.net
>
>___________________________________________________
___________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
>

Gerard Carriere on mon 29 oct 01

Two solutions to 2 problems. In the winter, I keep my bags of clay in a
large wooden box 2 x 2 x 3 ft with a hot house cable set in the bottom. I=
t
uses little electricity and keeps the clay just perfect (around 75 F or =
22
C.
For the water, I just add a bit of hot water from my kettle. Just takes a
minute to heat and I can choose the temperature.
Potters need warm hands especially with age. G=E9rard =E0 No=EBlville
P. S. I f you really want to warm up, I invite you for a few days of cros=
s
country skiing on my trails. Come home in total sweat. Might even appreci=
ate
a bit of cold water then. Have a nice winter.

Marie Gibbons on mon 29 oct 01

In a message dated 10/29/01 6:26:20 AM Pacific Standard Time,
gerardc@CYBERBEACH.NET writes:


> Two solutions to 2 problems. In the winter, I keep my bags of clay in a
> large wooden box 2 x 2 x 3 ft with a hot house cable set in the bottom. It
> uses little electricity and keeps the clay just perfect (around 75 F or 22
> C.
>

what is a hot house cable and where do you purchase them??
marie
www.oooladies.com

Jim Bob Salazar on mon 29 oct 01

clay storage,
i got an old non working chest freezer from the recycling center. our clay is kept
outside under a covered area. if you put it in at room temp it pretty much stays
that way.

jim bob


> Two solutions to 2 problems. In the winter, I keep my bags of clay in a
> large wooden box 2 x 2 x 3 ft with a hot house cable set in the bottom. It
> uses little electricity and keeps the clay just perfect (around 75 F or 22
> C.
> F

Klyf Brown on wed 31 oct 01

John,
I have never studied thermodynamics and have no degree in any
sciences, but I have studdied five gallon buckets full of cold liquids
for the last sixteen years. If I place a bucket on top of a heating device
overnight I find the inside material to be nice and warm in the morning.
If I place that same heating device on the TOP of the bucket of
material overnight the contents will not be heated very much at all.
My conclusion: heat rises.
I use a small propane space heater in my shop in the winter (yes Mel,
I am a total cold wimp). When I want to warm my hands I hold them
a ways over the top of the heater and use the rising heated air. I have
held my hands the same distance under the heater and I feel no heat at
all.
My conclusion: Heat rises.
SNIP
But the movement of heat energy really knows no direction. Heat
energy
>moves from areas of higher concentration to areas of lower

I am curious about this John, if heat is omnidirrectional, how can I
stand under the stack of a kiln at cone 10 and not get fried in all that
falling heat?
Klyf Brown, still wrongly believing that heat rises.

10/31/01 9:08:33 AM, John Baymore
wrote:

>
>But there is that pesky law about heat rising.
>
>
>Klyf,
>
>Actually... that is one of those things that everyone "knows" that isn't
>exactly true .
>
>Hot gases, being less dense than the surrounding cold gases, rise.
We
>often "learn" this idea experientally from feeling the higher
temperature
>near the ceiling of a room, or feel the "heat" rising from a candle, and
so
>on.
>
>Convective heat transfer is what we are experiencing in this case......
the
>heat energy is transfered to the gases...... and the hot gases move to
a
>different place....taking some heat energy with them.
>
>But the movement of heat energy really knows no direction. Heat
energy
>moves from areas of higher concentration to areas of lower
concentration.
>Basic law of thermodynamics..... kind of like "water always flows
downhill"
>
>
>Conductive heat transfer makes illustrating this concept easier.
>
>Hold a steel bar in one hand horizontally and heat the other end with
a
>blowtorch. Eventually you'll have to drop it . Now (after it has
>completely cooled) do it again holding the bar vertically and have the
blow
>torch heating the top. Takes the same amount of time until the "drop
>thing" happens . Now do it again with the blowtorch heating the
bottom
>of a vertically held bar. Once again...same time.
>
>There are a couple of minute other phenomona that will affect the
above
>example very slightly........ but for all intents and purposes...... it
>illustrates the point pretty well.
>
>
>The ONLY reason I bring this up at all is that an accurate
understanding of
>heat energy transfer is an important thing to potters....as it relates to
>building and firing kilns.
>
>So the heat transfered through the wall of a kiln doesn't care if it is
the
>arch, wall, or floor. If the temperature differential across the
>refractory structure between hot face and cold face is the same......
the
>rate of heat loss through the wall will be the same. Again...couple of
>other factors adjust this a tad in the practical application.... but close
>enough to true.
>
>This "common knowledge" about heat rising has led to countless
kilns being
>built that have underinsulated floors .... like 5 inches of hard firebrick
>when the decision has been made to construct the rest of the
structure out
>of 9 inches of insulating firebrick. Then the potter wonders why the
>bottom tends to fire cold . Years ago, Rhodes' Kiln Book
helped to
>foster this problem with the some of the designs in it.
>
>
>Best,
>
>..............................john
>
>John Baymore
>River Bend Pottery
>22 Riverbend Way
>Wilton, NH 03086 USA
>
>603-654-2752 (s)
>800-900-1110 (s)
>
>JohnBaymore.com
>
>JBaymore@compuserve.com
>John.Baymore@GSD-CO.com
>
>"Earth, Water, and Fire Noborigama Woodfiring Workshop 2002
Dates TBA"
>___________________________________________________
___________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
>

John Baymore on wed 31 oct 01

But there is that pesky law about heat rising.


Klyf,

Actually... that is one of those things that everyone "knows" that isn't
exactly true .

Hot gases, being less dense than the surrounding cold gases, rise. We
often "learn" this idea experientally from feeling the higher temperature=

near the ceiling of a room, or feel the "heat" rising from a candle, and =
so
on.

Convective heat transfer is what we are experiencing in this case...... t=
he
heat energy is transfered to the gases...... and the hot gases move to a
different place....taking some heat energy with them.

But the movement of heat energy really knows no direction. Heat energy
moves from areas of higher concentration to areas of lower concentration.=
=

Basic law of thermodynamics..... kind of like "water always flows downhil=
l"


Conductive heat transfer makes illustrating this concept easier.

Hold a steel bar in one hand horizontally and heat the other end with a
blowtorch. Eventually you'll have to drop it . Now (after it has
completely cooled) do it again holding the bar vertically and have the bl=
ow
torch heating the top. Takes the same amount of time until the "drop
thing" happens . Now do it again with the blowtorch heating the botto=
m
of a vertically held bar. Once again...same time.

There are a couple of minute other phenomona that will affect the above
example very slightly........ but for all intents and purposes...... it
illustrates the point pretty well.


The ONLY reason I bring this up at all is that an accurate understanding =
of
heat energy transfer is an important thing to potters....as it relates to=

building and firing kilns. =


So the heat transfered through the wall of a kiln doesn't care if it is t=
he
arch, wall, or floor. If the temperature differential across the
refractory structure between hot face and cold face is the same...... the=

rate of heat loss through the wall will be the same. Again...couple of
other factors adjust this a tad in the practical application.... but clos=
e
enough to true.

This "common knowledge" about heat rising has led to countless kilns bein=
g
built that have underinsulated floors .... like 5 inches of hard firebric=
k
when the decision has been made to construct the rest of the structure ou=
t
of 9 inches of insulating firebrick. Then the potter wonders why the
bottom tends to fire cold . Years ago, Rhodes' Kiln Book helped to
foster this problem with the some of the designs in it. =



Best,

..............................john

John Baymore
River Bend Pottery
22 Riverbend Way
Wilton, NH 03086 USA

603-654-2752 (s)
800-900-1110 (s)

JohnBaymore.com

JBaymore@compuserve.com
John.Baymore@GSD-CO.com

"Earth, Water, and Fire Noborigama Woodfiring Workshop 2002 Dates TBA"=

miriam shelomith on wed 31 oct 01

This reply/info is what keeps me looking forward to reading each and every
posting. :-} This, as with last Sunday, when there were over 725 messages to
read. Had been offlline in the studio...
Thanks to everyone!
pottermim listening to NPR and their talk about the newest scare of
terrorist activity.

>From: John Baymore
>>
>But there is that pesky law about heat rising.
>
>
>Klyf,
>
>Actually... that is one of those things that everyone "knows" that isn't
>exactly true .
>
>Hot gases, being less dense than the surrounding cold gases, rise. We
>often "learn" this idea experientally from feeling the higher temperature
>near the ceiling of a room, or feel the "heat" rising from a candle, and so
>on.
>
>Convective heat transfer is what we are experiencing in this case...... the
>heat energy is transfered to the gases...... and the hot gases move to a
>different place....taking some heat energy with them.
>
>But the movement of heat energy really knows no direction. Heat energy
>moves from areas of higher concentration to areas of lower concentration.
>Basic law of thermodynamics..... kind of like "water always flows downhill"
>
>
>Conductive heat transfer makes illustrating this concept easier.
>
>Hold a steel bar in one hand horizontally and heat the other end with a
>blowtorch. Eventually you'll have to drop it . Now (after it has
>completely cooled) do it again holding the bar vertically and have the blow
>torch heating the top. Takes the same amount of time until the "drop
>thing" happens . Now do it again with the blowtorch heating the bottom
>of a vertically held bar. Once again...same time.
>
>There are a couple of minute other phenomona that will affect the above
>example very slightly........ but for all intents and purposes...... it
>illustrates the point pretty well.
>
>
>The ONLY reason I bring this up at all is that an accurate understanding of
>heat energy transfer is an important thing to potters....as it relates to
>building and firing kilns.
>
>So the heat transfered through the wall of a kiln doesn't care if it is the
>arch, wall, or floor. If the temperature differential across the
>refractory structure between hot face and cold face is the same...... the
>rate of heat loss through the wall will be the same. Again...couple of
>other factors adjust this a tad in the practical application.... but close
>enough to true.
>
>This "common knowledge" about heat rising has led to countless kilns being
>built that have underinsulated floors .... like 5 inches of hard firebrick
>when the decision has been made to construct the rest of the structure out
>of 9 inches of insulating firebrick. Then the potter wonders why the
>bottom tends to fire cold . Years ago, Rhodes' Kiln Book helped to
>foster this problem with the some of the designs in it.
>
>
>Best,
>
>..............................john
>
>John Baymore
>River Bend Pottery
>22 Riverbend Way
>Wilton, NH 03086 USA
>
>603-654-2752 (s)
>800-900-1110 (s)
>
>JohnBaymore.com
>
>JBaymore@compuserve.com
>John.Baymore@GSD-CO.com
>
>"Earth, Water, and Fire Noborigama Woodfiring Workshop 2002 Dates TBA"
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

MOORE, Robert J. on thu 1 nov 01

If you are wanting to keep the full 350 gallons from freezing how about a
heating element apparatus that farmers use to keep their livestock's water
supply from freezing. I think I have seen them anywhere between $30-80. I'm
not sure how warm the water actually is, I would not think the water would
be extremely warm, but it would not freeze. Prob. depends on how many
gallons it is rated for as to what temp. it would keep the H2O.

-----Original Message-----
From: Darla [mailto:wdw@ABOUT.COM]
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 3:45 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: cold studios





an old crock pot works great....




"My problem is that my water source is a 350 gal. cistern filled by run-off
from the garage roof, and while it never freezes hard enough or long enough
here to freeze the water, it's cold all heck. My hands suffer. I'd love to
find a way to safely and easily, maybe I should say cheaply, heat it up to a
reasonable temperature. Any one have ideas there?"









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____________________________________________________________________________
__ Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org You may look at the archives
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may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.

claymom on thu 1 nov 01

Let me add my caution from sad personal experience about using an electric
blanket to keep clay from freezing. Just to remphasize my tale from several
years ago on these archives. Had my husband not been a night owl who
smelled smoke at 3:AM my home and attached studio would have been a pile of
ashes as the result of an electric blanket short. As it was Don sustained
severe lung damage from the smoke which probably contributed to his death
from lung cancer 3 years ago. I suppose the blanket idea works but be very,
very careful not to overlap any part of it. I had a wall heater installed
by a professional electrician and keep it at just above freezing during
those long winter nights. Yes, the power bill is higher now, but I think
it's better than the potential alternative.

Gerry Turner aka
claymom@palacenet.net
___________________________________________
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
> --
> Earl Brunner
> http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec/
> bruec@anv.net
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>

Snail Scott on fri 2 nov 01

At 02:47 PM 11/1/01 -0600, Gerry wrote:

>...my home and attached studio would have been a pile of
>ashes as the result of an electric blanket short...


As one of the people who mentioned the electric-blanket
technique for keeping clay unfrozen, let me support this
caution! I used one because I was A) dirt poor and couldn't
afford a safe space heater and B) I had a detached studio.

If you can afford safer heat, get it!
And if your studio is attached, use a smoke alarm.

(Are there smoke alarms with remote 'noisemakers', to allow
an alarm in a detached building to be heard inside another?
I'd love to know, if there are.)
-Snail