Dai Scott on sat 27 oct 01
Stephen/Stefano - You need to find shows where they clearly state that
discounting items is forbidden. Better shows do not allow this kind of
thing. If the shows you are doing seem, in other ways, to be pretty good
quality shows, maybe a letter to the convener(s) remarking about how the
"discount days" makes their otherwise quality show look like a Dollar Store
(or Flea Market, or your choice of tacky analogy) would be in order. Make
it a "nice" letter, especially if you want to get back in to that show in
the future .
All the shows we do forbid discounting at any time during the show; this
makes refusing customers who are looking for a "deal" on your stuff
easy---"I'm so sorry, but the rules of this show don't allow us to sell for
less than the tagged price. If we were to do that, we would be barred from
future shows here." Works every time! If the customer is really nice, and
spends a fair amount of money, I offer them an extra piece as a gift, rather
than the discount they wanted. They're usually thrilled; we do some small
fluted candle cups (hold a tealight candle) in raku, and a pair of them is
usually the freebie (retail value - $10---a three-minute project, we make
them by the score). Some customers feel they just HAVE to have some sort of
"deal" if they're spending major cash; I let them have their way if they
haven't totally pissed me off in the haggling.
Dai in Kelowna, BC
"There is no right way to do the wrong thing."
potterybydai@shaw.ca
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Cappelli"
To:
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: [CLAYART] Fairs and 1/2 price items
> Evening Group, I need some feedback on something that is a little
> frustrating to me. First let me say I am still a beginner on the craft
fair
> route ( 7 in my first year, I teach full time so the fairs are not my main
> source of income), but have noticed at the last three fairs that some
> potters (one at one and two at the others) have taken between a third to
> half of their booths and mark things down half price on the last day, and
> have signs in the booth stating that. I know that we all can do what is
> necessary to get rid of things, but when the booth is directly across from
> you how do you compete. I do one of a kind functional porcelain, prices
are
> competitive, and try to only show and display only my best. But have
found
> this 1/2 price practice a little demeaning on the profession . Have not
> seen any other medium do this. No glass people, no jewelers, no wood
> workers, etc..... Then after people tell me about so and so across the
way
> selling his stuff for 1/2 of my price, love my stuff (it's so unique) and
> would I be willing to take less.........I say no and end up with out a
> sale..... do I need to find better shows, go against my business and
> professional standards and succumb or what??? (besides being new at this
> venue, I was a painter for 20 years and corporations, museums etc bought
my
> work for investments-and I know what they would feel about 1/2 price sales
> in that investment market....... So I guess I am just venting .... well
> have another one in Pensacola this coming weekend, just hope the market is
a
> little more educated as I will not stoop to the 1/2 price blue light
> special....
> CIAO from Stefano in the Gump......
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: mel jacobson
> To:
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Stephen Cappelli on sat 27 oct 01
Evening Group, I need some feedback on something that is a little
frustrating to me. First let me say I am still a beginner on the craft fair
route ( 7 in my first year, I teach full time so the fairs are not my main
source of income), but have noticed at the last three fairs that some
potters (one at one and two at the others) have taken between a third to
half of their booths and mark things down half price on the last day, and
have signs in the booth stating that. I know that we all can do what is
necessary to get rid of things, but when the booth is directly across from
you how do you compete. I do one of a kind functional porcelain, prices are
competitive, and try to only show and display only my best. But have found
this 1/2 price practice a little demeaning on the profession . Have not
seen any other medium do this. No glass people, no jewelers, no wood
workers, etc..... Then after people tell me about so and so across the way
selling his stuff for 1/2 of my price, love my stuff (it's so unique) and
would I be willing to take less.........I say no and end up with out a
sale..... do I need to find better shows, go against my business and
professional standards and succumb or what??? (besides being new at this
venue, I was a painter for 20 years and corporations, museums etc bought my
work for investments-and I know what they would feel about 1/2 price sales
in that investment market....... So I guess I am just venting .... well
have another one in Pensacola this coming weekend, just hope the market is a
little more educated as I will not stoop to the 1/2 price blue light
special....
CIAO from Stefano in the Gump......
----- Original Message -----
From: mel jacobson
To:
claybair on sun 28 oct 01
Stephen,
I had a similar experience last year at a studio tour.
Another potter was selling seconds at $3-$5, slip cast work and assorted
rather unaesthetic pieces. I picked up one of her bowls that had a very
weighty bottom and a way too thin rim. There were several that looked
identical so I asked her about them. That's when she told me they are slip
cast. Her prices were way less than mine and technically less proficient.
My pieces are labor intensive, are not slip cast and received similar
comments you heard " Your work is so beautiful" blah, belong in a gallery
blah, blah, blah as they walked off without a purchase. Anyway I made much
less than she did! It was a very disappointing show!
Now that said, I continued to do local shows, have built up my exposure,
have a bit of a following and am eagerly waiting to see what happens this
year. I have also added some lower priced pieces.
To add more excitement...another potter has been added to our site. This
will be interesting. Who knows what will happen there are so many factors...
the economy, terrorist crap, the weather, anthrax, the flu, and do you know
what.... I am not going to sweat it..... I'll give it my all but am not
going to lose sleep over it! I now have a different attitude and just
cannot obsess about this or any other show.
Keep at it.... maintain your integrity... you will succeed in the long run.
The other person may find that people wait for that 1/2 price sign to come
out before they make any purchases.
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island, WA
http://claybair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of Stephen Cappelli
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 6:53 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Fairs and 1/2 price items
Evening Group, I need some feedback on something that is a little
frustrating to me. First let me say I am still a beginner on the craft fair
route ( 7 in my first year, I teach full time so the fairs are not my main
source of income), but have noticed at the last three fairs that some
potters (one at one and two at the others) have taken between a third to
half of their booths and mark things down half price on the last day, and
have signs in the booth stating that. I know that we all can do what is
necessary to get rid of things, but when the booth is directly across from
you how do you compete. I do one of a kind functional porcelain, prices are
competitive, and try to only show and display only my best. But have found
this 1/2 price practice a little demeaning on the profession . Have not
seen any other medium do this. No glass people, no jewelers, no wood
workers, etc..... Then after people tell me about so and so across the way
selling his stuff for 1/2 of my price, love my stuff (it's so unique) and
would I be willing to take less.........I say no and end up with out a
sale..... do I need to find better shows, go against my business and
professional standards and succumb or what??? (besides being new at this
venue, I was a painter for 20 years and corporations, museums etc bought my
work for investments-and I know what they would feel about 1/2 price sales
in that investment market....... So I guess I am just venting .... well
have another one in Pensacola this coming weekend, just hope the market is a
little more educated as I will not stoop to the 1/2 price blue light
special....
CIAO from Stefano in the Gump......
----- Original Message -----
From: mel jacobson
To:
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
John Baymore on sun 28 oct 01
=
........have taken between a third to
half of their booths and mark things down half price on the last day, and=
have signs in the booth stating that. I know that we all can do what is
necessary to get rid of things, but when the booth is directly across fro=
m
you how do you compete. I do one of a kind functional porcelain, prices
are
competitive, and try to only show and display only my best. But have fou=
nd
this 1/2 price practice a little demeaning on the profession . Have not=
seen any other medium do this. No glass people, no jewelers, no wood
workers, etc..... Then after people tell me about so and so across the
way
selling his stuff for 1/2 of my price, love my stuff (it's so unique) an=
d
would I be willing to take less.........I say no and end up with out a
sale..... do I need to find better shows, go against my business and
professional standards and succumb or what??? (besides being new at thi=
s
venue, I was a painter for 20 years and corporations, museums etc bought =
my
work for investments-and I know what they would feel about 1/2 price sale=
s
in that investment market.......
Stefano,
Way to go! You hit on another "hot one" . Ah yes.......... the "sal=
e"
as a marketing tool. A venerable American tradition. The ability to do
this is the blessing of the "free market", and also the curse .
What is the message the "sale" mentality sends to the public? Why.......=
. =
of course! Don't buy anything at "full price".... they (whoever the heck=
"they" are ) make and price stuff so that they get all the money they=
need to make when it is put on sale. The Manufacturer's Suggested Retail=
Price is a total scam. If you buy at full price.... you're stupid. =
Throwing money away. Never buy at MSRP. The REAL value of the product i=
s
the price it carries on the deepest sale discount available. Clip those
coupons. Watch those flyers. Go to the discount stores. Wait til it
comes on sale. =
"Psst.... Bob....... don't buy that stuff at the fair today. If you wait=
til the last afternoon you can get those pots of his MUCH cheaper."
Most of us have learned that the US new and used car sales field is the
logical epitome of this "game", raised to some sort of perverse art form
. =
As Wendy Rosen has so often pointed out ..........
........ as an average "collective group" (yes, there are exceptions) we
are our own worst enemies in keeping the prices and the perception of val=
ue
for our work DOWN.
If this kind of practice continues....... and I too see it all the
time............ it is hard to expect that the perception of the value of=
claywork will rise in the general public's eye. If we don't highly value=
our work....... who will? Unfortunatley, there is a subliminal message =
in
that discounting act that tells how the craftsperson who does it values
his/her work. That message is pervasive, and affects not only the
valuation of the work of those who do it, but spills over all other artis=
ts
as well.
Such practices are very shortsighted and communicate the perceprion of
handcrafted claywork as merely an expendible commodity not a "special
object". Special objects have elevated real and perceived value.......
expendible commodities do not. Maybe we should leave the "sale" approach=
to selling to the manufacturer's of "pottery as commodity"'s logical
heir...... Corelle Ware and Tupperware . =
Oh oh....Tupperware marketing slogan coming up here: "Plastic.... what
clay wishes it could be!" (just kiddin' )
Tom Peters, business marketing guru, has a little "tip" in his book
"Surviving on Chaos".... it is "Sell on quality, not on price". Food for=
thought.
I'd say a good start is to boycott fairs at which such practices are
allowed by the organizer.
Best,
..............................john
John Baymore
River Bend Pottery
22 Riverbend Way
Wilton, NH 03086 USA
603-654-2752 (s)
800-900-1110 (s)
JohnBaymore.com
JBaymore@compuserve.com
John.Baymore@GSD-CO.com
"Earth, Water, and Fire Noborigama Woodfiring Workshop 2002 Dates TBA"=
Gesine Rodger on sun 28 oct 01
Hi Stephen:
I want to respond to you regarding the 1/2 price items. I am a potter and a
co-ordinator for a good quality show in Canada. In the last 10 years I have
had 3 exhibitors trying to get away with sale signs. My response has always
been "where" and I run. My contract states that no sale signs are allowed.
I lost 2 of those exhibitors. I don't care. I get better ones the
following year.
You are right, it is demeaning to the show and makes it look like a flea
market. I encourage other artists/crafters to tell me when someone puts
sale signs up. I immediately make them take the signs down otherwise they
are not allowed back into the show. Read the fine print of your contract
with the show and see what it says. Most of them state that no sale signs
are permitted. If it does, then you have a definite right to complain.
Otherwise, you may want to look at better shows.
If the show is a good show and worth going back to, you must get the
exhibitors together and as a group and complain. Make the show co-ordinator
aware that you, as a group won't be back until the show solves that problem.
They need you guys to put the show together. Without you they wouldn't have
a show. They cannot afford to lose 10 potters as to the one that 1/2 prices
the items.
Gesine's Pottery
gesine@vaxxine.com
From: "Stephen Cappelli"
To:
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 8:52 PM
Subject: Re: Fairs and 1/2 price items
> Evening Group, I need some feedback on something that is a little
> frustrating to me. First let me say I am still a beginner on the craft
fair
> route ( 7 in my first year, I teach full time so the fairs are not my main
> source of income), but have noticed at the last three fairs that some
> potters (one at one and two at the others) have taken between a third to
> half of their booths and mark things down half price on the last day, and
> have signs in the booth stating that. I know that we all can do what is
> necessary to get rid of things, but when the booth is directly across from
> you how do you compete. I do one of a kind functional porcelain, prices
are
> competitive, and try to only show and display only my best. But have
found
> this 1/2 price practice a little demeaning on the profession . Have not
> seen any other medium do this. No glass people, no jewelers, no wood
> workers, etc..... Then after people tell me about so and so across the
way
> selling his stuff for 1/2 of my price, love my stuff (it's so unique) and
> would I be willing to take less.........I say no and end up with out a
> sale..... do I need to find better shows, go against my business and
> professional standards and succumb or what??? (besides being new at this
> venue, I was a painter for 20 years and corporations, museums etc bought
my
> work for investments-and I know what they would feel about 1/2 price sales
> in that investment market....... So I guess I am just venting .... well
> have another one in Pensacola this coming weekend, just hope the market is
a
> little more educated as I will not stoop to the 1/2 price blue light
> special....
> CIAO from Stefano in the Gump......
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: mel jacobson
> To:
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Wade Blocker on sun 28 oct 01
Years ago I participated in an annual show with painters and other artists.
Two women came and just hung around for hours, looking but not buying
anything. I finally asked them if there was anything we could help them
with. They responded that they were waiting for the prices to drop by 50%.
Apparently that is a common practice with garage sales toward the end of
the day. I assured them that this was not going to happen. Whereupon they
left. Mia in cloudy but warm ABQ
Cantello Studios on sun 28 oct 01
Stephen,
I think a call to the promoter or letter informing them of what you saw
occur would be appropriate. My husband and I participated in a 3 day show
that is very large. It is advertised as high quality fine arts and crafts,
no mass production. To our horror they let in a wind vane booth $19.95 out
the door. Everyone was walking around with one. After walking around their
booth and noticing all the parts were packed in plastic etc, it looked very
suspicious as mass production. After the show I sent a letter informing
them of my suspicion and how disappointed I was that, that booth was juried
in. When the application time came around, I called the promoter and asked
if they were going to allow them back. She said I was not the only one to
complain that over 10 peopled called. She said that unfortunately they had
misrepresented themselves in the jurying process, but rest assured they
would not be back. We went back and they weren't there So, if the show
was over all good for you, you may want to inform them, as they may not know
what occurred.
Just my 2 cents...
Tracy
www.cantellostudios.com
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Darlene Beverlin on sun 28 oct 01
I think there might be a fair or two that encourage such pricing. Don't =
go to them again. =20
When I did retail shows and a customer came to me and said "I like your =
cup but it is $5 more than your neighbor" I explain why my cup might be =
better and encourage them to please buy the other potters cup if price =
alone is the determining factor. I agree my prices might not be for =
every one. This might indicate to them that some people can not afford =
my work but he surely can and usually does buy. =20
Best of luck
darlene
http://rarearth.tripod.com
Sheryl VanVleck on tue 30 oct 01
To add to the fair stories. I was a professional portrait artist for seven years before finding pottery. I would do local and national fairs and have people "ohh" and "ahh" over my work. I got commissions to do deceased people (why does no one want a portrait of someone still alive?). The one fair that really did it though was when people would go by and do their "oooing and ahhhing" and I would point out drawings, matted, for as low as $20.00; and they would flip through and go next door and buy a stuffed clown for $20. By the end of the weekend I could have killed that clown lady. They weren't even well done.
My first show with pottery was sooooo nice. People never asked me to "tell them the meaning" behind the piece or some other abstract comment. I still got a lot of "my aunt does this." Which I have never minded. But, they also bought. Now, I'm embaressed at some of the things I sold then, but it sure was nice to come home with sore cheeks from smilking and some money in my pocket.
Sheryl
Wyoming
Jeremy/Bonnie Hellman on tue 30 oct 01
Hi Sheryl,
Nice story. I always enjoy reading "success" stories. And remember that you
did not force anyone to buy those early works which are certainly not as
nice as current work.
Bonnie
Bonnie Hellman in Pittsburgh, PA
> From: Sheryl VanVleck
> Reply-To: Ceramic Arts Discussion List
> Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 15:33:49 EST
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: Fairs and 1/2 price items
>
> To add to the fair stories. I was a professional portrait artist for seven
> years before finding pottery. I would do local and national fairs and have
> people "ohh" and "ahh" over my work. I got commissions to do deceased people
> (why does no one want a portrait of someone still alive?). The one fair that
> really did it though was when people would go by and do their "oooing and
> ahhhing" and I would point out drawings, matted, for as low as $20.00; and
> they would flip through and go next door and buy a stuffed clown for $20. By
> the end of the weekend I could have killed that clown lady. They weren't even
> well done.
>
> My first show with pottery was sooooo nice. People never asked me to "tell
> them the meaning" behind the piece or some other abstract comment. I still
> got a lot of "my aunt does this." Which I have never minded. But, they also
> bought. Now, I'm embaressed at some of the things I sold then, but it sure
> was nice to come home with sore cheeks from smilking and some money in my
> pocket.
> Sheryl
> Wyoming
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
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