marge on tue 6 nov 01
(#2001-309)
Can you help me find the archives that are listed by SUBJECT? I have
several items I need to look up and there is no reason to post a problem
that has already been discussed at length.
Thanks so much,
marge
----- Original Message -----
From: "Automatic digest processor"
To: "Recipients of CLAYART digests"
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 11:00 PM
Subject: CLAYART Digest - 4 Nov 2001 to 5 Nov 2001 (#2001-309)
> There are 89 messages totalling 4139 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
> 1. Centering - Help?
> 2. Making Ceramic Drums (5)
> 3. stoneware ^6 (2)
> 4. the hump's got me stumped! (8)
> 5. Stand Up KickWheel
> 6. still slightly hump stumped (4)
> 7. Bonsai pot competition (2)
> 8. Reverse misogynism (whatever that is) (2)
> 9. Sloppy E-habits
> 10. reds
> 11. Firing Copper Reds right now. (2)
> 12. Fire Songs
> 13. photos of workshop in Italy (2)
> 14. Hotel and conference info for NCECA 2002 (3)
> 15. John and Ron's book
> 16. animal sculptures
> 17. interior designers (2)
> 18. Bonsai/ Cactus pots (4)
> 19. Back Pain / Hydro-collator alternative
> 20. Phyllis' Dog Bowls
> 21. Barium...Why? (2)
> 22. Interior Designers
> 23. Aardvark Bee Mix (2)
> 24. Barium...Why?- reverse misogynism (whatever that is)
> 25. Hello, my name is Brandon... (2)
> 26. Frozen clay? (4)
> 27. Back Pain (2)
> 28. surfin' nov 4 2001
> 29. A different trick: the hump's got me stumped!
> 30. Bonsai pot conpetition
> 31. candle containers
> 32. Centering - Help? - Thanks
> 33. Notta a big green egg. Really!
> 34. Guide to Digital Cameras
> 35. Frozen clay
> 36. A lesson on centering for beginners
> 37. Back Pain Re: sciatica
> 38. doggone it (2)
> 39. mutts (2)
> 40. Thought about sand casting
> 41. The Big Green Egg
> 42. big green eggs and reverse misogynism
> 43. mugs for breast cancer event
> 44. Back Pain--EXERCISE ---the key! (2)
> 45. reverse misogynism
> 46. Hyatt-NCECA 2002
> 47. Back Pain, now exercise
> 48. Copper Red Ceramics
> 49. Back Pain -- hating exercise
> 50. What Can I Do With a Wood Stove? - long
> 51. See you in KC
> 52. Diesel etc. fired kiln idea
> 53. pictures of last red firing
> 54. must be an easier way
>
>
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 22:01:27 -0700
> From: Joan & Tom Woodward
> Subject: Re: Centering - Help?
>
> If you love it, don't chuck it! I had enormous trouble with centering =
for
> months when I was first learning. Then someone showed me a different
method
> which happened to work for me. What a relief. From time to time,
> definitely with different clays, I have trouble again. If I really get
> stuck I go back to basics, like some of the suggestions you've already
> received. Or looking at a book that has been useful in the past. Or
> watching someone. Bracing is something I tend to forget. Breathing is
> convenient, too. I also know that there are just periods that I am
> successful and times when I am not. So, take heart. If you've done it
> before, you can do it again. And then some.
>
> Joan
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 23:39:32 -0500
> From: Ryan Clyde-Rich
> Subject: Making Ceramic Drums
>
> I am a student doing a research project. I am trying to gather research=
on
> making ceramic drums. I would be willing to read anythign that relates =
to
> design or construction. If anyone has any ideas about books or web site=
s
> that are related to drum building I would really appreciate it.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Ryan
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 23:11:03 -0500
> From: ken swinson
> Subject: Re: stoneware ^6
>
> well, it's been 48 hours, and i have done some pretty good work...and
> the studio is STILL clean! i love this store bought clay. it's so eas=
y
> to work with...it's smooth and will stretch and coil. i'm glad to have
> the experience of digging and cleaning and cussing at my native clay,
> but i don't miss it right now. so, if you havent had devastating
> results from earthenware contaminating stoneware....maybe i can mix my
> clay and a stone body and come up with something stronger than the
> original. hmmm. may be worth some testing. first, i want to test
> these new clays, and see how they work.
>
> maybe i will be able to maintain the clean studio...i haven't decided
> whether it is a good habit, or a personality type.
>
> peace love
> ken in kentucky
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 18:28:28 -0500
> From: Elca Branman
> Subject: Re: the hump's got me stumped!
>
> after the pots get leather hard, before trimming, use a surform on the
> bottom if they are uneven....also, when using your cut off wire, hold i=
t
> close to the bottom of the tiny pots, the closer the better..and pull i=
t
> straight toward you..
> Elca Branman.. in Sarasota,Florida,USA
> elcab1@juno.com
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 22:51:09 -0500
> From: ken swinson
> Subject: Re: Stand Up KickWheel
>
> i throw on a stand up kickwheel. i bought it because it was a good
> deal. i love it! i stand when throwing, or use a tall barstool if i
> need to sit. the guy at the pottery supply (who wanted to sell the
> $1000 pottery wheel) called it a good plant stand, but it works great!
> i can do all the things he said i would have a hard time doing. i thin=
k
> i am avoiding back problems from huching over a sit down...but i am
> scared of having one strong/weak leg from kick kick kicking all the
> time. i think it is called a klopfenstien, and i have seen a picture
> in a catalogues....but i can't remember which.
> it basically has a tall cube frame 2'x2'x4'. there is a long shaft fro=
m
> the wheel head to the freeweight which is maybe a foot from the ground
> attached to a 'pedal' in a locomotive style. best part...a huge
> splashpan covering the top of the frame!
> peace love
> ken in kentucky
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 20:01:07 -0400
> From: "L. P. Skeen"
> Subject: Re: the hump's got me stumped!
>
> ---- Original Message -----
> From: Penni Stoddart
>
> After several tries I am left frustrated and at a loss for what to do.
> I am trying to do a series of small vases (less then 1/2 pound of clay)=
so
I
> am throwing off the hump..... cutting it off the hump.....HUGE PROBLEM.
>
> Penni,
>
>
> Da Mayor teaches this trick in his workshops. Tie a short piece of thr=
ead
> to a small piece of bamboo and use THAT to cut the pots off. :)
>
> L
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 21:32:55 -0500
> From: Penni Stoddart
> Subject: still slightly hump stumped
>
> Got an excellent reference to one of Mel's articles in pottery making a=
nd
in
> fact I think I have it here at home (somewhere * scratch head*). All th=
e
> help on cutting off the pot is excellent and thanks to all for that. BU=
T I
> am still having trouble with the idea of where is the bottom.
>
> From Mel's article:
> "Form a small groove at the base of the pot with the index fingernail.
Make
> this groove fairly deep. Judge the depth of the bottom of the pot and m=
ake
> the groove for the string at a place that will give the pot a 1/4-inch
> footring. It is imperative that you do not leave large amounts of clay =
at
> the bottom of the pot, as it takes a great deal of time to trim that cl=
ay
> away, "
>
> What I have a problem with is "judge the depth of the bottom of the pot=
".
> The vessels I am trying to do are very rounded with small openings. Wha=
t
is
> the best way to "judge the bottom" ???? Any more bright ideas?
>
> Thanks to all for your help. This group is unbelieveably (sp?) kind and
> helpful.
> Thanks again in advance,
> ~~~~
> Penni Stoddart of Penelope's Pots
> President, Artisans London (Ontario, Canada)
>
> "When I die, I want to die like my grandmother who died
> peacefully in her sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in her
car."
> * Author Unknown
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 18:30:12 -0800
> From: Earl Brunner
> Subject: Re: Bonsai pot competition
>
> Think cactus pots.
>
> Klyf Brown wrote:
>
> > I have allways been fond of Bonsai and like the pots too, but never
> > tried making one. With all the posts lately on the competition I just
> > had to give it a shot. Went out to the shop this morning and worked
> > up a new extruder die for the walls and another for the feet. They
> > assembled beautifully when they stiffened up a bit. A right handsome
> > pot if I do say so myself. Not that difficult to make. The extruder d=
ie
> > is one of the easiest to make that I have done except for the coil on=
e.
> > I'll be pumpin out the Bonsai pots now!!
> > Klyf Brown in New Mexico, I wonder if there is a market for Bonsai
> > pots in NM and west Texas.
> >
> > 11/4/01 5:20:50 AM, KYancey
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Paul Ringo wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> High quality bonsai pots made with the right clays and glazes if
> >>
> > appropriate are quite pricey when compared with most pottery and
> > time spent developing the skill could add a boost to almost anyone's
> > financial agenda. Paul Ringo, Lake Charles, La.
> >
> >> I had to chuckle at that statement. Sorry, Paul, I mean you no
> >
> > disrespect but that is a pretty narrow statement. The world of potter=
y
> > is vast. Bonsai pots are just one very small part of it.
> >
> >> It does seem that you are successful at making them, so keep up the
> >
> > good work and good luck with the competition. Ken
> >
> >> ___________________________________________________
> >
> > ___________________________
> >
> >> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >>
> >> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscriptio=
n
> >> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >>
> >> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> >
> > melpots@pclink.com.
> >
> >>
> >
> >
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
__
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
> --
> Earl Brunner
> http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec/
> bruec@anv.net
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 03:46:09 -0000
> From: Janet Kaiser
> Subject: Re: Reverse misogynism (whatever that is)
>
> DO you know what Thought did?
> He followed a muck cart, because he thought it was a
> wedding.
>
> Misogyny: Hatred of women
> Misogynist: Hater of women
> Misogynistic: adjective
> So presumably: Misogynism (not in dictionary or spell
> check) Reverse of; is hating women backwards?
>
> Janet Kaiser - 1994 or maybe 1995 was last time I
> bought a dress... Just this week bought a lovely new
> screwdriver to replace my wizard electric screwdriver
> which Eckhard wrecked opening a tin of paint... Forgot
> to lock it up in my overfilled toolbox with the
> combination padlock. Nickers! As bad as all the kitchen
> knives with kinked or broken off blades... "Desk
> Stallion" at work! OK at pushing pencils around and
> maths, but don't let 'em loose in a workshop
> environment! He means well, bless him, but he has two
> left hands and not a lot of tool control. Now stop
> laughing... That was your dirty mind, not mine!
> The Chapel of Art . Capel Celfyddyd
> HOME OF THE INTERNATIONAL POTTERS' PATH
> Criccieth LL52 0EA, GB-Wales Tel: (01766) 523570
> E-mail: postbox@the-coa.org.uk
> WEBSITE: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 03:24:50 -0000
> From: Janet Kaiser
> Subject: Sloppy E-habits
>
> Hey, you guys and gals. I don't want to sound school
> marmy, BUT many are forgetting to clean up adequately
> after hitting the reply button! Counted up to FIVE
> attached mails with the usual adage:
>
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> > You may look in the archives
>
> etc. etc. today.
>
> This is very sloppy!! Especially the one-liners with
> countless other posts "attached". This is a waste of
> resources! We are not a "chat group", even if we tend
> to treat it as one. Banter is wonderful, but remember
> that the Archives are a unique resource and these
> overlong posts of drivel are using them up fast!!!
> Please don't abuse this precious resource ACers
> provides! Clean up all mail before you hit "send".
> PLEASE!
>
> Janet Kaiser - Queen of Drivel and the Inconsequential
> The Chapel of Art . Capel Celfyddyd
> HOME OF THE INTERNATIONAL POTTERS' PATH
> Criccieth LL52 0EA, GB-Wales Tel: (01766) 523570
> E-mail: postbox@the-coa.org.uk
> WEBSITE: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 18:21:10 -0800
> From: linda blossom
> Subject: Re: reds
>
> Actually, the case I know of was not in Nebraska. It was in Skaneatele=
s
NY
> (home of Miller Clay) and it was covered in the book Energy Efficient
> Potter, by Regis Brodie. The person doing the draw tiles was named Geo=
rge
> Wettlaufer who wrote Copper Reds for Potters and had an article in the
> Studio Potter in 1979 on that subject. (footnotes from EEP) In The
Energy
> Efficient Potter is a photo of Jonathan Kaplan in 1982!
>
>
> Linda Blossom
> 760-510-6488
> 240 S. Bent
> San Marcos, CA 92069
> lindablossom@att.net
> www.nottinghamarts.org
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Tsai"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2001 3:07 PM
> Subject: Re: reds
>
>
> > Bob Hollis wrote:
> >
> > "Joyce,
> > You seen it happening therefore it is true, the experts wh=
o
> write
> > the definitive truth, i.e. bullshit, didn't count on a curious woman
doing
> > what they should have done "LOOKED". Your post is probably the first
> > non-bullshit one on this subject, but watch, it will come, the techno
> babble
> > to "scientifically explain" that living in the desert means from time=
to
> > time you must trample cacti and therefore the peyote content has got
into
> a
> > glaze which..."
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Not that I don't appreciate the humor of your response, but the
scientific
> > tests have "looked" as you put it. It wasn't just some random theory
that
> > copper reds develop as the kiln cools, they looked in the kiln and
pulled
> out
> > test rings and found out that there was no red when you first turn of=
f
the
> > kiln, that the red came later. So they looked again later and again
later
> and
> > when the red developed, that's when they said, oh, lookie, it's about
blah
> > blah degrees so this must be when they develop.
> >
> > But who knows, maybe they were in nebraska, and somme corn particles
> combined
> > with cow dung and formed minute little fairies that wander around wit=
h
> magic
> > wands and sprinkle copper reds at higher temperatures in nebraskan
kilns.
> >
> > Who knows. The key really is that you don't just look once.
> >
> > -jeff
> >
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
> __
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 09:15:34 -0600
> From: Clay Coordinator
> Subject: Re: Firing Copper Reds right now.
>
> Chris,
>
> I would not recommend that you fire down.
>
> First of all, if you have changed the beginning cone of reduction from
cone
> 06 to cone 010, you should not change anything else until you see the
> results.
>
> If you change two or three things how will you know which one worked? =
If
> you reduce early, scratch your head and bite your fingernail and you ge=
t
> reds then the next time you will have to reduce early, scratch your hea=
d
and
> bite your fingernail. You will then report to everyone that you really
need
> to scratch your head and bite your fingernail to get reds.
>
> This is the problem with ceramics. If you don't employ the scientific
method
> then superstitution will reign.
>
> In this case, you may have slow enough cooling by just shutting off you=
r
> kiln. Why waste the gas until you know you need to? If you get the re=
ds,
> to what will you attribute your success? Will you then have to down fi=
re
> everytime? How is it that some people recommend slow cooling and other=
s
> recommend quick cooling? Some recommend slow cooling and throwing in a
dead
> cat.
>
> Solutions should only be applied if they are necessary. You don't take
every
> possible suggestion for getting copper reds and apply them all at the s=
ame
> time. You take one and try it and then make adjustments, try that, mak=
e
> adjustments. Otherwise you will never learn for yourself. You will ne=
ver
> understand the principles. You will rely on conflicting suggestions an=
d
> superstitutions from all angles.
>
> Nevertheless I hope you get your reds and can find out why.
>
> Best of luck,
>
> John Britt
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 05:23:30 -0800
> From: Phyllis Tilton
> Subject: Re: Fire Songs
>
> From the 1940's: I Don't Want To Set The World On Fire
>
> The next line in the lyrics: I just want to start a flame in your
heart.......
>
> Ahhhhh Memories!!
>
> Phyllis Tilton
>
> daisypet1@yahoo.com
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Find a job, post your resume on Yahoo! Careers.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 08:47:57 -0500
> From: ken swinson
> Subject: Re: Making Ceramic Drums
>
> cool drums and other ceramic instruments
>
> http://www.ninestones.com/begallery.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 06:12:16 -0700
> From: Marcia Selsor
> Subject: Re: photos of workshop in Italy
>
> Dear Lindsay,
> The next one is May 24 to June 7. The cost is $1500 (US) We stopped
> putting it in Lire because they are going to Euros and because millions
> of lire scare people.
> I don't have anything printed yet. Deposits will be due in jan. and I
> can send you a registration form if you send your snail mail. I plan to
> do it via email by then.
> Marcia
>
> lindsay stevenson wrote:
> >
> > Marcia the photos are incredible. when are you scheduling the next
> > workshop? I would like to be put on the mailing list. thx lindsay
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
> >
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
__
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
> --
> Marcia Selsor
> selsor@imt.net
> http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls
> http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls/May2001.html
> http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls/Tuscany2001.html
> http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls/Gallery.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 05:14:23 -0800
> From: Bill Edwards
> Subject: Hotel and conference info for NCECA 2002
>
> Below is the site information on hotels and their
> addresses. This site is a spring board for information
> some have asked questions about. Some questions I may
> not have an immediate answer to but I will forward
> them on to the sources I have for additional help in
> securing answers to questions regarding the March 2002
> NCECA convention.
> http://www.nceca.net/conf2002.htm#hotels
>
> Blocks of rooms have been reserved at special
> conference rates for NCECA members at
>
> Hyatt Regency Crown Center, 2345 McGee Street,
> 816-421-1234. Rates: $120 single/quad. Limited number
> of rooms at student rates: $90 single/double; $115
> triple/quad - applicable only if student ID is
> presented at check-in. Reservations deadline: February
> 12, 2002.
> The Westin Crown Center, One Pershing Road,
> 816-474-4400. Rates: $120 single/quad. Limited number
> of rooms at student rates: $100 single/quad -
> applicable only if student ID is presented at
> check-in. Reservations deadline: February 11, 2002.
> Room tax is 12.6%, subject to change.
>
> The below link carries you to the specifics of the
> hotels.
> http://www.crowncenter.com/crown-recreationF.html
> http://www.crowncenter.com/crown-westin.html
>
> William Edwards
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Find a job, post your resume.
> http://careers.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 14:31:15 +0200
> From: Ababi
> Subject: Re: John and Ron's book
>
> I understand the question better so I have a better answer:
> Hi Karen
> Enter to :http://amsterlaw.com/ go to links There are links to the
> sites of the clayart people http://amsterlaw.com/clayart.htm or to
> http://www.milkywayceramics.com/links.htm
> Or
> http://users.skynet.be/russel.fouts/favorite.htm
>
> Visit the artists too.
>
> http://lsv.ceramics.org/scripts/wa.exe?S1=3Dclayart
> This last one let's you search in the archives. You insert Ron Roy or
> John Hesselberth
> Better with an E mail and get a lot of answers.
> Now to save you another E mail: My name is Ababi I am a male not Mel
> and love to send E mails.
> My last name Sharon. Neither related to prime minister. Nor the
> political view Yet we both live in the Negev.
>
> Both John and Ron are good people as you could see from John's letter.
> As you will realize after reading theirs to the group.
> To make it easier this time:
> http://digitalfire.com/education/people/ronroy.htm
> http://www.frogpondpottery.com/
>
> Ababi Sharon
> Kibbutz Shoval- Israel
> Glaze addict
> http://members4.clubphoto.com/ababi306910/
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
>
> >on 11/4/01 10:42 AM, Karen and Cliff Sandlin at sandlink@BELLSOUTH.NET
> >wrote:
>
> >> Who are John and Ron and what will be the name of their book on
> >glazes?
> >> Are these oxidation glazes?
> >>
> >> Karen
>
> >Hi Karen,
>
> >Ron is Ron Roy. I'm John. The title of the book is Mastering Cone 6
> >Glazes
> >and the focus is on oxidation firing. We have learned/confirmed that
> >you can
> >get some pretty amazing (and of course durable) glazes out of plain ol=
d
> >vanilla electric kilns and we'll be showing some pictures of some of
> >them
> >when we launch our website in another few weeks.
>
> >Regards,
>
> >John Hesselberth
>
> >Web site: http://www.frogpondpottery.com Email:
> >john@frogpondpottery.com
>
> >"The life so short, the craft so long to learn." Chaucer's translation
> >of
> >Hippocrates, 5th cent. B.C.
>
> >______________________________________________________________________=
__
> >______
> >Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> >You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> >settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> >Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> >melpots@pclink.com.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 13:59:33 +0200
> From: Ababi
> Subject: Re: animal sculptures
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
>
> >Dear Richard,
>
> >I make all my sculptures by throwing and assembling. I also travel to
> >Turkey on a regular basis (Izmir), if that is of any use.
> >relax@moley.uk.com
>
> >happy potting Marek http://www.moley.uk.com
>
> Hello Marek.
> About your visits to Turkey
> I tried to find out if I could buy a small amount 1-25 K'g of Ulexite.
> It might be a good or partly substitute to Gerstley borate. I arrived
> to this address. They did not answer my fax. A friend of mine, she
> dealing export import tried to call them. The women in their office did
> not understand English.
> I remember one letter Tony Hansen wrote to the list, he was astonished
> by the fast melting of this material. I do not say we have THE
> material, but last week, after offering that Frit P2954 , I saw it's
> price and was shocked, we could give a try to this material.
> More about read at: http://www.digitalfire.com/material/m-01u1e0.htm
> Sincerely
> Ababi Sharon
> Kibbutz Shoval- Israel
> Glaze addict
> sharon@shoval.org.il
> http://members4.clubphoto.com/ababi306910/
> http://www.milkywayceramics.com/cgallery/asharon.htm
> http://www.israelceramics.org/
>
> >>--- Ababi wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Thank you Irfan. Are they shop? mine?
> >>
> >> >can find ulexite as much as you want
> >>
> >> >Etibank
> >>
> >> >Tel:(266) 633 7221
> >> > 22
> >> >Fax:(266) 633 7223
> >> >Bal=3DFDkesir
> >>
> >> >and the name of the person you can contact with
> >>
> >> >Mr. Mehmet Ertem
> >> >Mr. Mehmet =3DD6cal
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 06:11:57 -0600
> From: karen terpstra
> Subject: Re: interior designers
>
> Hi Sylvia,
> Interior Designers are as varied as gallery directors---some very good,
> some very bad. Ask if they have a degree in Interior Design or are
> accredited by ASID (American Society of Interior Designers--Maybe the
> organization has changed by now but there are a few legitimate
> credentials that one can obtain.) A good designer will be happy to
> answer questions, give you background experience, give you references.
> Be leery if they are offended by the 20 questions.
>
> Interior Designers work in a variety of ways. Some of them
> independently and will go out and buy for the client. Some of them wor=
k
> through architectural firms or furniture stores. Either way, if they
> like your work they can figure out how to purchase it from you. You
> would sell it to the designer or the firm and they would mark it up
> (usually double) OR in some cases they would tell the customer about yo=
u
> and the customer would buy directly from you. You should decide to pric=
e
> your work as you would to a gallery who is selling for you if the
> designer is working directly with you.
>
> Personally speaking, they might sell a few pots for you here and there
> but it won't pay the bills. I guess the main thing is to ask questions
> and ask more questions. Like I said, the legitimate ones will not mind
> answering.
>
> I have an old degree from Ray-Vogue School of Art in Chicago, now calle=
d
> Ray College. I was a practicing designer for 18 years, then totally
> burned out. Thank goodness I went back to school and fell in love with
> clay!!!
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Karen Terpstra
> La Crosse, WI
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 07:10:51 EST
> From: ASHPOTS@AOL.COM
> Subject: Re: Bonsai/ Cactus pots
>
> well Earl let the cat out of the bag. When i lived in Miami i was a
member
> of the local Bonsai group. I had a nice collection, but i also have bee=
n
> making containers for succulents.You know , cactus.
> I was a certified judge of cactus and succulents. Succulents look great
and
> bonsai containers.
> I am a member of the CSSA , Cactus and Succulent Society of America and
also
> the Vice Pres of the CCSS, the Chattanooga Cactus and Succulent Society
>
> If you hook up with a cactus group , and they are IN EVERYstate the
members
> are desperate for GOOD containers.
> I have some of my containers on a friends web site: OldmanCactus.com
>
> if i can help with more info email me
>
> Capt Mark Lookout Mountain Pottery
> Rising Fawn Ga
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 19:24:37 -0400
> From: Liz Willoughby
> Subject: Re: the hump's got me stumped!
>
> Hi Penni, One of the best tools that I have is a package of bamboo
> skewers. I use them for all sorts of things. They work beautifully
> when you are throwing off the hump. I first cut in at a 45 degree
> angle and then move it horizontally. Then I wire it off. You can
> get them lots of places, I get mine at the grocery store. Liz
>
>
> >After several tries I am left frustrated and at a loss for what to do.
> >I am trying to do a series of small vases (less then 1/2 pound of
> >clay) so I am throwing off the hump. Centering.....no problem.
> >creating the vessel.....no problem. cutting it off the hump.....HUGE
> >PROBLEM.
> >I either end up with no bottom (most of the time) or with such a
> >ragged bottom it would need a ton of trimming. I have tried using my
> >pin tool as a cutter as well as my cutting wire. Both do OK but I
> >can't get an even (straight) or smooth bottom if I have one at all!
> >It is either not there or is on an angle and is ragged.
> >Any suggestions?
> >TIA
> >~~~~
> Penni Stoddart of Penelope's Pots
>
> Liz Willoughby
> RR 1
> 2903 Shelter Valley Rd.
> Grafton, On.
> Canada
> K0K 2G0
> e-mail lizwill@phc.igs.net
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 23:02:43 -0800
> From: peasley
> Subject: Back Pain / Hydro-collator alternative
>
> I, too have used this boil-a-bag heat treatment, with great success.
However
> a friend gave me something that seems to work just as well, and takes l=
ess
> time to heat up. It's a bag of raw rice, stitched into a square or tube=
to
> fit your body part. I've made several, and everyone I show them to wan=
ts
> one, or steals mine.
>
> You put a cup or so of raw rice into a sleeve or square of fabric - not
too
> full or it's too firm and won't conform to your back or butt or neck or
> whatever. Stitch it up real well, so it doesn't leak. I also make a cov=
er
> from an old pillow slip or soft towel, but that's optional.
>
> Heat it on high in your microwave for about 2 or 3 minutes. It produces=
a
> wonderful, moist heat, and lasts for about 45 minutes or so. I've been
using
> the same one for a couple of years. It rehydrates itself and is ready t=
o
go
> when every you want it again. Some say it's good as a cold pack, too,
> straight from the freezer, but have never tried that...
>
> I think you'll like the results. Fast and easy.
>
> Pam in Seattle
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 22:49:33 -0800
> From: peasley
> Subject: Phyllis' Dog Bowls
>
> Your flat sided bowls sound great, but I couldn't get a mental picture =
of
> the construction from your description:
>
> "I made the round pot, when it 'set up' I cut it in two, then cut the w=
all
> from one-half and pulled attached it to the back of the other half.'"
>
> You cut the leather hard bowl vertically in half - I get that part. I
don't
> get the cut-the-wall, pull and attach part. Getting dense(r) in my old
age.
>
> Pam in Seattle
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 01:30:33 -0500
> From: "L. P. Skeen"
> Subject: Re: still slightly hump stumped
>
> > Got an excellent reference to one of Mel's articles in pottery making
and
> in
> > fact I think I have it here at home (somewhere * scratch head*). All =
the
> > help on cutting off the pot is excellent and thanks to all for that. =
BUT
I
> > am still having trouble with the idea of where is the bottom.
> > What I have a problem with is "judge the depth of the bottom of the
pot".
> > The vessels I am trying to do are very rounded with small openings. W=
hat
> is
> > the best way to "judge the bottom" ???? Any more bright ideas?
>
>
> Yup, and again, attributable to mel-san. Use a Tombeau (sp?). Get out=
a
> pencil and a pair of chopsticks, or a pair of popsicle stix, and a rule=
r.
> Place stick #1 vertically inside the pot. Place stick #2 horizontally
over
> top of the pot, crossing #1 like a crucifix or plus sign. Move #2 down
til
> it touches the top of the pot. Holding both stix together, remove from
pot
> and mark #1 with the pencil where #2 touched the pot. Measure from the
mark
> to the bottom of your stick to get the depth of your pot. Let's say
that's
> 3". If you want your bottom to be about 1/2" thick, on the outside of
your
> pot, take the ruler and stand it vertically on the wheelhead. Get your
eyes
> level w/ the rim of the pot and measure down 3.5 inches on the hump. M=
ake
a
> mark there w/ whatever tool is handy. Set tombeau and ruler aside, cut=
in
> your groove like in mel's instructions, and continue from there.
>
> Again and again I wish there were means of making drawings in email.....
>
> L
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 22:09:30 -0800
> From: Gillian Evison
> Subject: Re: Barium...Why?
>
> Cindy, as an ex xray technician I can tell you that the barium we use f=
or
> xrays is barium sulphate - a very stable and therefore non poisonous
> compound. We can't use this for glazes because of the sulphur content =
of
> course, and the one we use, the carbonate, is not stable and will break
down
> into barium and whatever, and the barium is poisonous. As far as MOM is
> concerned - isn't the active ingredient you are thinking of aluminium?=
I
> stopped taking it because I heard that aluminium is suspected in
connection
> with Alzheimers, and goodness knows I have problems enough with aging,
> without that!
> Cheers, Jill
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.=
asp
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 09:43:14 EST
> From: Nancy Guido
> Subject: Interior Designers
>
> I am happy to say that I have a good working relationship with an inter=
ior
> designer. However, she was my friend first, a tennis buddy and after s=
he
saw
> what I did she found that it fit in some of her clients' homes. I even
offer
> her a commission off the sale, but she doesn't take it. She just sells=
it
> direct to her customer for me - which is really nice. However, it wasn=
't
> always that way. A different interior designer would ask me to create
> specific things for her clients - at first I did it and I found it was =
not
> what I wanted to do. My aim now is to not do custom work - if they lik=
e
what
> I do and it fits in the scheme, they can buy what I have in stock or wa=
it
> until I produce more. Even my best friend interior designer comes up w=
ith
> some strange requests because she really doesn't understand the process=
-
she
> just wants the end result.
>
> If you choose to do these types of things, make sure you charge enough =
for
> it, get money up front.
>
> Nancy G.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 09:47:36 -0500
> From: Christena Schafale
> Subject: Re: Aardvark Bee Mix
>
> Re: problems with clay, I agree wholeheartedly with the following:
>
>
> >Honestly I think that most companies have had clay/glaze/equipment
problems
> >at various times.
> >The real issue here is what they do about it. When contacted did they
say,
> >"Oh you are the first person who has said there is a problem. you must=
be
> >doing something wrong! Bye!" without querying you at all. Or do they s=
ay
> >something like, "Yes, we are sorry. We just found one of our raw mater=
ial
> >suppliers has switched sources. We will be happy to replace the clay,
glaze,
> >equipment or here's how to fix ____ etc."
>
> I had a problem with foreign objects in some clay from Highwater in
> Asheville last year, and when I made it clear that I was not happy with
the
> situation, Brian very graciously replaced the clay (several hundred
> pounds). Now I am a VERY loyal Highwater customer. I use their Speckl=
ed
> Brownstone (cone 6) and P5 porcelain (cone 5-6), and have been very hap=
py
> with both, other than this one problem.
>
> Chris Schafale
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 00:50:19 -0800
> From: Dai Scott
> Subject: Re: Bonsai pot competition
>
> Klyf, can you tell me what you make your extruder dies out of, and what
you
> cut them with? Your post sounds like you just went out to the studio a=
nd
> whipped up a couple of dies. It seems to take forever around here to m=
ake
> dies; we make them out of plexiglass, using a drill or Dremel, and it's=
a
> tedious process. Nothing seems to cut/drill the plexiglass very well, =
and
> it's hard to free-hand the bevelled edge---most of our home-made dies l=
ook
> like someone CHEWED them out! I'm thinking a thin metal would be bette=
r,
> but wonder what other people use.
> Dai in Kelowna, BC
> "There is no right way to do the wrong thing."
> potterybydai@shaw.ca
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Klyf Brown"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2001 4:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [CLAYART] Bonsai pot competition
>
>
> > I have allways been fond of Bonsai and like the pots too, but never
> > tried making one. With all the posts lately on the competition I just
> > had to give it a shot. Went out to the shop this morning and worked
> > up a new extruder die for the walls and another for the feet. They
> > assembled beautifully when they stiffened up a bit. A right handsome
> > pot if I do say so myself. Not that difficult to make. The extruder d=
ie
> > is one of the easiest to make that I have done except for the coil on=
e.
> > I'll be pumpin out the Bonsai pots now!!
> > Klyf Brown in New Mexico, I wonder if there is a market for Bonsai
> > pots in NM and west Texas.
> >
> > 11/4/01 5:20:50 AM, KYancey
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Paul Ringo wrote:
> > >
> > >> High quality bonsai pots made with the right clays and glazes if
> > appropriate are quite pricey when compared with most pottery and
> > time spent developing the skill could add a boost to almost anyone's
> > financial agenda. Paul Ringo, Lake Charles, La.
> > >
> > >I had to chuckle at that statement. Sorry, Paul, I mean you no
> > disrespect but that is a pretty narrow statement. The world of potter=
y
> > is vast. Bonsai pots are just one very small part of it.
> > >
> > >It does seem that you are successful at making them, so keep up the
> > good work and good luck with the competition. Ken
> > >
> > >___________________________________________________
> > ___________________________
> > >Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> > >
> > >You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscriptio=
n
> > >settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> > >
> > >Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> > melpots@pclink.com.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
> __
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 01:08:37 -0800
> From: Dai Scott
> Subject: Re: still slightly hump stumped
>
> Penni - Is the hole at the top of the pot large enough to put a chopsti=
ck
> through? If so, with the wheel stopped, put a chopstick into the pot t=
ill
> it touches bottom (you don't need to see the bottom to know when the st=
ick
> stops ); slide your thumb down the chopstick till it comes to the ri=
m
of
> the pot and hold your thumbnail there; remove the chopstick from the po=
t
and
> hold it on the outside of the pot in a position where your thumbnail is
> again at the level of the rim of the pot----voila! you can now see wher=
e
the
> bottom of the inside of the pot is! Make a mark 1/4" or desired amount=
,
> down from the end of the chopstick, and that's your cut-off line. My
> preference for cutting off small pots from a hump is definitely the
> stick-and-thread method, with the thread coiling around the groove and
> cutting through the bottom as the wheel turns slowly. You just have to=
be
> careful to hold the stick end of the thread very still so that you get =
a
> straight cut. It takes a bit of practice at first (and nerve! ). G=
ood
> luck!
> Dai in Kelowna, BC
> "There is no right way to do the wrong thing."
> potterybydai@shaw.ca
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Penni Stoddart"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2001 6:32 PM
> Subject: [CLAYART] still slightly hump stumped
>
>
> > Got an excellent reference to one of Mel's articles in pottery making
and
> in
> > fact I think I have it here at home (somewhere * scratch head*). All =
the
> > help on cutting off the pot is excellent and thanks to all for that. =
BUT
I
> > am still having trouble with the idea of where is the bottom.
> >
> > From Mel's article:
> > "Form a small groove at the base of the pot with the index fingernail.
> Make
> > this groove fairly deep. Judge the depth of the bottom of the pot and
make
> > the groove for the string at a place that will give the pot a 1/4-inc=
h
> > footring. It is imperative that you do not leave large amounts of cla=
y
at
> > the bottom of the pot, as it takes a great deal of time to trim that
clay
> > away, "
> >
> > What I have a problem with is "judge the depth of the bottom of the
pot".
> > The vessels I am trying to do are very rounded with small openings. W=
hat
> is
> > the best way to "judge the bottom" ???? Any more bright ideas?
> >
> > Thanks to all for your help. This group is unbelieveably (sp?) kind a=
nd
> > helpful.
> > Thanks again in advance,
> > ~~~~
> > Penni Stoddart of Penelope's Pots
> > President, Artisans London (Ontario, Canada)
> >
> > "When I die, I want to die like my grandmother who died
> > peacefully in her sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in her
> car."
> > * Author Unknown
> >
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
> __
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 01:13:12 -0800
> From: Dai Scott
> Subject: Re: Reverse misogynism (whatever that is)
>
> Janet said: "...and not a lot of tool control. Now stop
> laughing... That was your dirty mind, not mine!"
>
> Glad to hear that some words are international!
> Dai in Kelowna,BC
>
> "There is no right way to do the wrong thing."
> potterybydai@shaw.ca
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 00:35:06 -0800
> From: Dai Scott
> Subject: Re: Barium...Why?- reverse misogynism (whatever that is)
>
> Aha! Earl---jumping to conclusions, are we? Your post suggests that
you're
> assuming the WOMEN were discussing barium coffee. Please note I said
> "ex-spouses", not ex-husbands----maybe I was the only woman at the
workshop
> I'm not telling
> And, all us "pottery women" ARE different---we have TOOLS!
> Dai in Kelowna, BC, sharpening my knives.
> "There is no right way to do the wrong thing."
> potterybydai@shaw.ca
>
> > See, and I thought all you pottery women were different!!!!
> >
> > Ed Kraft, maybe ALL women aren't like the ones I work with, but there
> > are enough of them out there. The next thing they will be trying to =
say
> > is that it's all OUR fault. I don't know "its all" is, but it's our
> fault.
> >
> > potterybydai wrote:
> >
> > > (which started a great
> > > conversation about ex-spouses and how could one get barium into the=
ir
> > > coffee!).
> > >
> > >
>
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
> __
> > > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> > >
> > > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscripti=
on
> > > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> > >
> > > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Earl Brunner
> > http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec/
> > bruec@anv.net
> >
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
> __
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 23:40:58 -0800
> From: Brandon
> Subject: Hello, my name is Brandon...
>
> Hello all,
> Since I am a usually a lurker, I will introduce myself.
> My name is Brandon, I am 17, and have just recently fallen in love with=
=3D
> clay. Along with my new found passion, I enjoy woodworking. My main =3D
> focus in woodworking would be that of lathe work.
>
> (I just looked up this website if any of you are curious about what =3D
> woodturning is about.)http://home.pacbell.net/latheart/gallery.html
>
> I started with clay while taking a class at the local community =3D
> college. I must say that after my first humbling experience with =3D
> throwing, I was tempted to stick to the comfortable, solid nature of =3D
> wood. However, due to my previous experience with the wood lathe, I =3D
> quickly realized what could be expressed with clay. Needless to say, I =
=3D
> stuck with it.=3D20
> I have officially beat the 8 inch mark, and am becoming proficient =
=3D
> at attaining shapes that are actually pleasing to the eye. I love the =3D
> huge amount of learning that goes on during the beggining statges of an=
y =3D
> new form of expression. I eventually hope to fuse my wood turnings with=
=3D
> clay somehow. I have all sorts of ideas floating around in my head, and=
=3D
> am eager to gain the skills nessasary to see them realized.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Brandon
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 23:52:19 -0800
> From: Brandon
> Subject: Frozen clay?
>
> Hello,
> I just have a quick question. I have been working with clay over th=
e =3D
> summer during a ceramics class. Seeing as though I am a newbie, I have =
=3D
> been using my moms unused wheel outside as there is no room inside. Wel=
l =3D
> the class is over and it is cold outside!! Since I will be doing my woo=
d =3D
> work over the winter, in my nice warm garage, I need a place to store m=
y =3D
> clay. Funny, my mom doesn't seem to like it taking up room in the house=
. =3D
> This means my clay is destined for the backyard in a rubermaid =3D
> container. So here is my question...
> Have any of you had any experience with frozen clay?
> Odd question, I know, but I am curious if any of the working qualities =
=3D
> will be affected after the clay thaws. Any feed back would be =3D
> appreciated.
>
> --Brandon--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 07:12:26 -0800
> From: chris clarke
> Subject: Re: Back Pain
>
> How I hate to be one of these people BUT, exercise.
>
> I have arthritis and my back use to kill me after sitting at the wheel =
all
> day. I started kickboxing and jogging three months ago. I've not had =
a
> single twinge in my joints since. And I can work all day and not pay f=
or
it
> later.
>
> The big plus however is the ten extra pounds I've added to my wheel hea=
d
> (and taken off myself). Even if you just stretch out every day, it hel=
ps,
a
> little goes a long way.
>
> And hear the raspberries back there from you guys!! They can go along
with
> the ones from my family.
>
> chris
>
>
> temecula, california
> chris@ccpots.com
> www.ccpots.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 03:43:50 -0500
> From: Helen Bates
> Subject: surfin' nov 4 2001
>
> Hello you Clayarters!
>
> Got my new machine! Back browsing...
>
> \\> Artist's Register Com
> http://artistsregister.com/
> Searching for Keyword "stoneware" brings up links to Clayarter Vicki
> Conley
> (along with a number of other potters and ceramic sculptors.)
> Site shows clickable images and has links to artist's home pages.
> ///
>
> \\> Itheo Com
> http://www.itheo.com/
> Another artist's online gallery, searchable by keyword or by
> category.
> Many images here, icluding one from Clayarter Marie Gibbons.
> The Ceramics category has over 200 items.
> Enlargable to medium or large image.
> Search can be refined in a number of boxes in a form provided.
> Recommend parental guidance re: erotic subjects (though those I've
> seen are not extreme and have some artistic merit)
> ///
>
> Just these two sites might do you for a week.
>
> Helen
> --
>
>
>
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> Helen Bates
> mailto:nell@quintenet.com
> Web - http://www.geocities.com/nelbanell/HelensClayPicks.html
> Bill Amsterlaw's link to my Clayart Posts -
> http://amsterlaw.com/nell/
>
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 09:40:10 -0800
> From: Michael Wendt
> Subject: Re: A different trick: the hump's got me stumped!
>
> Penni,
> Since no one gave you the float stick technique, I will. Cut a very thi=
n
> wedge shaped stick from the edge of a 2 X 4 (10-12" Long). The thin edg=
e
> needs to be as thin as possible, the thick edge should be 1/8". After y=
ou
> mark the bottom depth of your item by any means you choose (see earlier
> posts for suggestions), or do as I do, attach a small strip of metal to
the
> stick and bend it into a simple height gauge (I do this for all my gobl=
et
> stems for example, so they are all identical without any fuss or lost
> time),dip the stick in water, hold it reasonably level so the water sta=
ys
on
> the stick, place the thin edge at the cut off position as the wheel tur=
ns
> and angle the stick slightly in and down so the water flows off of the
stick
> and into the cut as the stick glides gently inward. When it reaches the
> midpoint, the pot is cut off and sitting on the stick. Then slide the p=
ot
> off onto the carry board. I call this technique "float stick" and it wo=
rks
> better and faster than wiring and lifts and supports the pot during
removal.
> Interested?
> Regards,
> Michael Wendt wendtpot@lewiston.com
> You wrote in part:
> After several tries I am left frustrated and at a loss for what to do.
> I am trying to do a series of small vases (less then 1/2 pound of clay)=
so
I
> am throwing off the hump. Centering.....no problem. creating the
> vessel.....no problem. cutting it off the hump.....HUGE PROBLEM.
> I either end up with no bottom (most of the time) or with such a ragged
> bottom it would need a ton of trimming.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 13:08:11 -0500
> From: scott lykens
> Subject: Re: Bonsai pot conpetition
>
> >Perhaps this organization has done a little market research, perhaps t=
hey
> >are looking for not just a type of pot, but a type of potter. And if =
it
> >seems the criteria for the competition is too uncomfortable to bend in=
to,
> >perhaps its not a competition for anybody and everybody, but rather a
> >showcase for folks who already work in this medium of bonsai planter a=
nd
> >really would benefit in a big way from the exposure.
> Sort of " A CALL TO ALL PROFESSIONAL BONSAI PLANTER ARTISTS" not
expecting
> that this would be something just anyone with a potters studio would be
> interested in applying for.
>
> Much like this years NCECA Invitational was not for anybody and everybo=
dy,
> but rather for individuals already dealling with specific themes in the=
re
> work. There was no time to change gears, and prospectus was advertized=
in
a
> way that made it unfortable to apply for the exhibition unless you alre=
ady
> were deeply involved in a specific genre of activity. Perhaps the
national
> bonsai federation is having an agenda of similar proportion in that wha=
t
> they really want is to seek out the studio artist whos voice is already
> toned in bonsai pots, Already the primary media of choice. Match up if
you
> will this countries most prestigous bonsai plants with the most
prestigous
> bonsai planters and likewise the makers of both, as opposed to providin=
g
an
> avenue for changing gears in to planters in a short term way.
>
>
> Over all it sounds like a highly professional endevour with an entry fe=
e
> designed to turn away large #'s of applicant so as to review a small # =
of
> folks who just cant imagine not entering this kind of show.
> Something like 70-100 applicants total instead of 1000, making hte priz=
e
$$
> quite on target with the kind of $$ left over when its done.
>
> Sort of making the nationally advertised show into a small community
effort
> when its all over. Big event, big $$$ small crowd sort of thing.
>
> This is just my interpertation of how this prospectus might be
interprited.
> So if anybody has a reason to believe otherwise, please feel entitled t=
o a
> different opinion. This is just one i hadnt seen mentioned a whole lo=
t.
>
> cheers
> sct
>
>
> > > The National Bonsai Federation is sponsoring this competition in
part
> >to
> > >help stimulate potters to produce high quality, creative American
bonsai
> >pots
> > >(which is not as easy to do as one might think). I'm sure the
> >registration fee
> > >goes to support the (non-profit) organization and potters will get l=
ots
> >of name
> > >recognition (read business) by displaying and creating bonsai pots.
> >Since
> > >bonsai is not a widespread hobby, the people that do grow trees have=
a
> >deep
> > >appreciation for pots and the intricacies of making pots so the mone=
y
> >invested
> > >in registering might be a good investment in advertising if nothing
else.
> > I'd
> > >encourage anyone interested to check it out and give it a try after
> >talking to
> > >some folks that grow bonsai and maybe visiting a few sites on the ne=
t
to
> >get
> > >some ideas about proportions and specifics of bonsai pot design. It=
's
an
> >art
> > >unto itself.
> > >
> > >Paul Ringo, Lake Charles, La
> > >
> >Wow - an excellent fund raiser [ and a golden opportunity ? ].
> >
> >Entry fee - $75
> >Slides - $? [ non returnable ]
> >Postage and insurance, [two ways or the organisers keep them ] $?
> >
> >The winning pieces are kept by the organisers who are in effect buying
> >the best six pots for =A33500. Two of the winners will receive $250 ea=
ch
> >minus the above costs in return for their work.
> >
> >The ones who reach the second round will have their work on display fo=
r
> >a time at the bonsai centre [ not sure how many ]. They are in fact
> >paying the above costs to have their work in a non selling exhibition.
> >But they do get the chance to then sell it from home for more than the
> >value of the third prize.
> >
> >The ones who don't make it to the second round only have to pay the
> >entry fee and for the non returnable slides but then no one but the
> >judges get to see their work.
> >
> >As a full time potter I could work on the project in my spare time [
> >what spare time ? ]. Or take a few days out of production with the los=
s
> >of income that would entail. Now what shall I do. mmmmmm !
> >
> >
> >I have no objection to fund raising I just think it a pity that some
> >young potters might not see this "competition" for what it really is.
> >
> >Geoff - in the Lake District, England, whatching the lakes fill up by
> >the minute.
> >--
> >chris & geoff cox
> >http://www.potfest.co.uk
> >
>
>________________________________________________________________________=
___
___
> >Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> >You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> >settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> >Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> >melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.=
asp
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 17:12:02 +0000
> From: Jenny Lewis
> Subject: candle containers
>
> Hi all
>
> Only slightly clay related - well, pots appear in there somewhere -
>
> Rather vaguely, I thought recently it would be nice to make candles in
> pots. Well, maybe I should have checked with the wisdom of Clayart
> first!, but anyway, bought my candle making starter kit, and I have
> followed the instructions which were not too difficult, and I now have =
a
> few questions. If anyone makes them, or has made them in the past,
> could you please contact me off list if you don't mind my asking for
> some probably basic advice, but just thought I should check one or two
> points before I set fire to anything...
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Jenny Lewis
> in crisp, cool and sunny autumnal London UK
> (as opposed to foggy, soggy and gloomy autumnal...)
> --
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 09:20:35 -0800
> From: Patti Kratzke
> Subject: Re: Frozen clay?
>
> Brandon, I'm sure you'll get buried with replies on frozen clay, since
> this was a recent topic, but I had to respond just to say I am so JAZZE=
D
> to hear that you are excited about clay and about combining it with woo=
d
> working. I have had similar fantasies about mixing the two, but I don'=
t
> have any wood working tools or experience (for one, I'm old enough to n=
ot
> have been allowed to take shop in school). I have a cousin who might
> help me with this, though, if I gave it some effort. You have inspired
> me.
>
> Frozen clay is not a bad thing if it is not a raw pot you're talking
> about. Freezing and thawing a lump of clay might actually improve its
> handling qualities. What you want to be very careful about is your pot=
s.
> If they freeze while raw, they will not fare so well in thawing;
> although I think one Clayarter offered that in the unfortunate
> circumstance that a raw pot freezes, keeping the pot frozen until it
> dries (sounds like a long process) would avert disaster. There's been =
a
> lot of discussion over the past couple of weeks, if you can look back,
> and also check out the archives.
>
>
>
> On Sun, 4 Nov 2001 23:52:19 -0800 Brandon
> writes:
> > Hello,
> > I just have a quick question. I have been working with clay over
> > the summer during a ceramics class. Seeing as though I am a newbie,
> > I have been using my moms unused wheel outside as there is no room
> > inside. Well the class is over and it is cold outside!! Since I will
> > be doing my wood work over the winter, in my nice warm garage, I
> > need a place to store my clay. Funny, my mom doesn't seem to like it
> > taking up room in the house. This means my clay is destined for the
> > backyard in a rubermaid container. So here is my question...
> > Have any of you had any experience with frozen clay?
> > Odd question, I know, but I am curious if any of the working
> > qualities will be affected after the clay thaws. Any feed back would
> > be appreciated.
> >
> > --Brandon--
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________________________________=
__
> _____
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your
> > subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> > melpots@pclink.com.
> >
>
>
> Patti Kratzke
> Kingston, WA
> pkpotts@juno.com
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 12:15:49 -0500
> From: "Frederich, Tim"
> Subject: Re: still slightly hump stumped
>
> Penni,
> Before closing in the neck of the pot all the way, take a flat wooden t=
ool
> and hold it as if you are going to trim the bottom. Focus your right e=
ye
on
> the tool and your left eye on the bottom of the pot and bring the tool =
in
> until it touches the clay. This mark should be the bottom of the pot. =
It
> works for me. You may have to adjust slightly if your eyes don't focus
the
> same.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Tim Frederich
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Penni Stoddart [mailto:penelopepots@HOME.COM]
> Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2001 9:33 PM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: still slightly hump stumped
>
>
> Got an excellent reference to one of Mel's articles in pottery making a=
nd
in
> fact I think I have it here at home (somewhere * scratch head*). All th=
e
> help on cutting off the pot is excellent and thanks to all for that. BU=
T I
> am still having trouble with the idea of where is the bottom.
>
> From Mel's article:
> "Form a small groove at the base of the pot with the index fingernail.
Make
> this groove fairly deep. Judge the depth of the bottom of the pot and m=
ake
> the groove for the string at a place that will give the pot a 1/4-inch
> footring. It is imperative that you do not leave large amounts of clay =
at
> the bottom of the pot, as it takes a great deal of time to trim that cl=
ay
> away, "
>
> What I have a problem with is "judge the depth of the bottom of the pot=
".
> The vessels I am trying to do are very rounded with small openings. Wha=
t
is
> the best way to "judge the bottom" ???? Any more bright ideas?
>
> Thanks to all for your help. This group is unbelieveably (sp?) kind and
> helpful.
> Thanks again in advance,
> ~~~~
> Penni Stoddart of Penelope's Pots
> President, Artisans London (Ontario, Canada)
>
> "When I die, I want to die like my grandmother who died
> peacefully in her sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in her
car."
> * Author Unknown
>
>
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
> __
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 08:52:29 -0800
> From: Patrick Logue
> Subject: Re: Hello, my name is Brandon...
>
> Hi Brandon
> Welcome to the show.
> Whatever you do get those ideas on paper. If you're
> anything like me, i've forgotten as many ideas as i've
> followed through on.
> Keep at it
> Pat
> --- Brandon wrote:
> > Hello all,
> > Since I am a usually a lurker, I will introduce
> > myself.
> > My name is Brandon, I am 17, and have just recently
> > fallen in love with clay. Along with my new found
> > passion, I enjoy woodworking. My main focus in
> > woodworking would be that of lathe work.
> >
> > (I just looked up this website if any of you are
> > curious about what woodturning is
> > about.)http://home.pacbell.net/latheart/gallery.html
> >
> > I started with clay while taking a class at the
> > local community college. I must say that after my
> > first humbling experience with throwing, I was
> > tempted to stick to the comfortable, solid nature of
> > wood. However, due to my previous experience with
> > the wood lathe, I quickly realized what could be
> > expressed with clay. Needless to say, I stuck with
> > it.
> > I have officially beat the 8 inch mark, and am
> > becoming proficient at attaining shapes that are
> > actually pleasing to the eye. I love the huge amount
> > of learning that goes on during the beggining
> > statges of any new form of expression. I eventually
> > hope to fuse my wood turnings with clay somehow. I
> > have all sorts of ideas floating around in my head,
> > and am eager to gain the skills nessasary to see
> > them realized.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Brandon
> >
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
__
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change
> > your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> > reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Find a job, post your resume.
> http://careers.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 11:49:31 -0500
> From: Karen and Cliff Sandlin
> Subject: Re: Centering - Help? - Thanks
>
> Joan: Bracing was EXACTLY the problem! That and the fact that I had
> unconsciously combined several different methods of wedging, centering =
&
> opening.
>
> Went back to basics and hopefully learned once again. It was SUCH a
> pleasure to throw yesterday and enjoy the feeling of centered clay
> practically raising itself!
>
> Appreciate your kind words.
>
> Karen
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On
> Behalf Of Joan & Tom Woodward
> Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 12:01 AM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: Centering - Help?
>
> If you love it, don't chuck it! I had enormous trouble with centering
> for
> months when I was first learning. Then someone showed me a different
> method
> which happened to work for me. What a relief. From time to time,
> definitely with different clays, I have trouble again. If I really get
> stuck I go back to basics, like some of the suggestions you've already
> received. Or looking at a book that has been useful in the past. Or
> watching someone. Bracing is something I tend to forget. Breathing is
> convenient, too. I also know that there are just periods that I am
> successful and times when I am not. So, take heart. If you've done it
> before, you can do it again. And then some.
>
> Joan
> >
>
> _______________________________________________________________________=
_
> ______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 08:32:29 -0800
> From: Philip Poburka
> Subject: Re: Notta a big green egg. Really!
>
> Well...this reminded me of a swell portable cooking outfit I used to ha=
ve,
> and which I might just replicate one of these days to have handy for th=
e
odd
> occasion.
>
> It was an older medium-smallish squat metal 'Toolbox' what had fitted i=
n
it,
> a removable section of some 'expanded-metal' sheet...on the side near t=
he
> bottom was a simple vent-slide to regulate the way Air could be drawn i=
n,
> and like-wise a similar vent up on the side of the top to regulate the
> out-breathe...
>
> Put some 'Briquettes' in the bottom and get 'em going, and grille, smok=
e,
> bake or as one like, 'Bar-b-Que' to one's Heart's content...
>
> It worked well, was small, light, portable and had the Handle on the to=
p
for
> carrying, and didn't take up much room for carrying to the occasional
> Pic-Nic or what...
>
> I had never seen any versions of the 'High-Botchies' that could come cl=
ose
> to it's snug comact and portable ease...
>
> If one were to make up one of these, I should suggest removeing the old
> Paint first, and maybe hit the outside with some 'hi-heat' manifold Pai=
nt
or
> other...any place that rebuilds Engines would be happy to let it stew i=
n
> the 'soup' (Caustic Soda Tank) for you to get whatever paint there is
about
> as 'off' as off could be...bring them a 'six-pack' of some small favour=
or
> other...
> Neutralize with some Vinegar, wash it and and do a dry-run or two to bu=
rn
it
> clean if ye do the 'Caustic' deal...
>
> Gosh, I think I will make one now...all of a sudden I really miss the o=
ld
> one I'd had!
>
> Anyway...
>
> Not a 'Green' eggasaurous...handy and useful though...'unique'...?
>
> Phil
> Las Vegas...
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Mills"
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2001 2:54 AM
> Subject: Re: a big green egg. Really!
>
>
> > My Barbecue kit:
> > Half tin barrel and an old oven shelf.
> > charcoal.
> > blow torch (to light it).
> > My Wife's hair drier.
> > cold to cooking in 20 minuets flat.
> >
> > There are advantages to being a pyromaniac (pyromantic) :-)
> >
> > Steve
> > Bath
> > UK
> >
> >
> > In message , Janet Kaiser
> > writes
> > >Ha! HA! Tee! He! Giggle, Giggle! Hick! Ick! ICK!
> > >Ye-uch...!
> > >
> > >What is it about the average male barbecue maniac which
> > >attracts him to this sort of gadget, widget or whatever
> > >you want to call it? We get used to them playing with
> > >fire, eventually getting the charcoal to burn two hours
> > >later than the guests arrived, investing mucho energy,
> > >loud self-praise and animated boy-talk about secret
> > >recipes and techniques, whilst we stuff ourselves with
> > >bread and salad waiting for the first sausage to cook,
> > >then feeding the dog all the good stuff because nobody
> > >was hungry at midnight...
> > >
> > >Surely we put up with enough, without Big Green
> > >Eggs...?! And if you doubt my ever so slightly sexist
> > >mail, just look at the price tag... This is aimed at
> > >men. No doubt about it...
> > >
> > >So in the words of the prophet: "You want one? You make
> > >it, Buddy!"
> > >
> > >Don't be teased, cajoled or conscience-pricked into
> > >even trying! And put that eggy website into the
> > >restricted category for good measure... Change the
> > >password if necessary!
> > >
> > >Janet Kaiser - the Hard Iron Woman!
> > >The Chapel of Art . Capel Celfyddyd
> > >HOME OF THE INTERNATIONAL POTTERS' PATH
> > >Criccieth LL52 0EA, GB-Wales Tel: (01766) 523570
> > >E-mail: postbox@the-coa.org.uk
> > >WEBSITE: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
> >
> > --
> > Steve Mills
> > Bath
> > UK
> >
> >
_________________________________________________________________________=
_
> ____
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 09:17:29 -0700
> From: Cindy Strnad
> Subject: Re: Frozen clay?
>
> Dear Brandon,
>
> You don't say where you live, or how much clay you
> have on hand, but if it will all fit into a
> rubbermaid container, it doesn't sound like a lot.
> If you can keep it unfrozen at all, that would
> definitely be best. If you're in a relatively mild
> climate, a bed and blanket of straw might solve
> the problem. Otherwise, the rubbermaid container
> topped with a suitable piece of plywood and a
> tablecloth might make a nice end table?
>
> If the clay freezes, its texture will be
> temporarily destroyed. The clay isn't ruined, but
> you will have to do an awful lot of wedging to get
> it back into workable condition. Some people say
> that freezing and thawing improve the clay's
> ultimate workability, but they all agree that the
> clay requires a good deal more wedging once it's
> been frozen. Unless you're up for that, it's best
> to keep it above freezing.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Cindy Strnad
> Earthen Vessels Pottery
> RR 1, Box 51
> Custer, SD 57730
> USA
> cindy@earthen-vessels-pottery.com
> http://www.earthen-vessels-pottery.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 11:14:27 -0500
> From: Chris Jones
> Subject: Re: Firing Copper Reds right now.
>
> Hello John,
>
> I agree with you and do eliminate 1 variable at a time. I have been
testing
> a couple of mugs or something small with a red glaze each time I fire. =
I
> have gotten beautiful reds here and there firing a typical load of ruti=
le
> blue to ^11 and no special cool down. This past firing was my first
attempt
> at doing an entire load dedicated to copper red and I used the same fir=
ing
> schedule as always stopping at ^8-9.
>
> For the next firing I do of reds, I will reduce earlier at ^012 and try
just
> that. One thing at a time. I know each kiln is different and you just h=
ave
> to learn how to fire it. My first experience was with a 40' c.u. sprung
arch
> downdraft kiln. Now I have a Laser fiber kiln 18'c.u. that fires much m=
ore
> efficiently and easier. I have only fired this kiln 6-7 times so far an=
d
am
> still learning its ways. I will keep posting my results.
>
> Thank you for your advice.
> Chris Jones
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 10:09:16 -0600
> From: Susan Ford
> Subject: Re: stoneware ^6
>
> It's a good habit developed over time. I'm a slob
> inside the house, usually. My clay area is clean,
> however. I sometimes switch from white stoneware
> and porcelain to regular or red stoneware. Keeping
> everything clean helps this process. If I'm having a
> hard time making something. I sit back and clean all
> of my tools. It's meditatvie and I think things over
> and get clean tools as a bonus.
>
> I do have a canvas wedging board for the really red
> stoneware, so that my plaster wedging table doesn't
> get too stained. I attach it to the workbench with C-
> clamps when I need it.
>
> Susan
>
> On 4 Nov 2001, at 23:11, ken swinson wrote:
>
> well, it's been 48 hours, and i have done some pretty
> good work...and the studio is STILL clean! i love this
> store bought clay. it's so easy to work with...it's
> smooth and will stretch and coil. i'm glad to have the
> experience of digging and cleaning and cussing at
> my
> native clay, but i don't miss it right now. so, if you
> havent had devastating results from earthenware
> contaminating stoneware....maybe i can mix my
> clay and
> a stone body and come up with something stronger
> than
> the original. hmmm. may be worth some testing.
> first, i want to test these new clays, and see how
> they
> work.
>
> maybe i will be able to maintain the clean studio...i
> haven't decided whether it is a good habit, or a
> personality type.
>
> peace love
> ken in kentucky
> ---
> Susan K. Ford
> Norman, Oklahoma
> http://www.clueless.norman.ok.us/sf/rerhome.htm
>
> The weakest ink lasts longer
> than the strongest memory.
> -- Confucious
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 11:04:24 -0500
> From: Jonathan Kirkendall
> Subject: Guide to Digital Cameras
>
> Hey everyone!
>
> If you've been wondering about which digital camera to buy, how to spea=
k
> "digital camera-ese," or even if you need a digital camera, check out t=
he
> lastest issue of MacWorld, whose cover article this month is entitled "=
The
> Ultimate Guide to Digital Cameras." It's sort of a "digital cameras fo=
r
> idiots" - very helpful, very easy to read and understand.
>
> The cameras they review and the information they give are not specific =
to
> the Macintosh platform, so if you have a PC you would also find it
helpful.
>
> Jonathan in DC
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 10:48:06 -0500
> From: John Baymore
> Subject: Re: the hump's got me stumped!
>
>
> ..... cutting it off the hump.....HUGE PROBLEM.=3D3D20
> I either end up with no bottom (most of the time) or with such a ragged
=3D3D=3D
>
> bottom it would need a ton of trimming. I have tried using my pin tool
=3D3D=3D
>
> as a cutter as well as my cutting wire. Both do OK but I can't get an =3D=
3D=3D
>
> even (straight) or smooth bottom if I have one at all! It is either not
=3D3D=3D
>
> there or is on an angle and is ragged.
>
>
> Penni,
>
> Hi.
>
> Here's a suggestion.........
>
> Get a short rectangular cross-section piece of wood.... maybe 1/2 inch =
wi=3D
> de
> by 1/4 inch thick by 6-7 inches long. Take one end on a grinding wheel=
a=3D
> nd
> shape that end to look sort of like like the prow of a simple boat.....=
a=3D
>
> pointed tip with two flat angled planes coming up at an angle to form a
> point. That part is a little hard to describe . The goal is to hav=
e =3D
> a
> tool that when pressed into the clay below the foot, it forms a nice de=
ep=3D
>
> precise groove no more than about 1/2 inch wide at the widest point and
> maybe 1/4 inch deep or so, that sort of resembles the V groove in a mac=
hi=3D
> ne
> pulley where the belt would fit.
>
> Then drill a small hole in the other end of the stick (away from the
> pointed end), big enough to thread a thin piece of string through.
>
> Get some braided fly fishing line at the local sport shop. A roll of l=
in=3D
> e
> is a lifetime supply and then some . The thickness is something lik=
e =3D
> 1/
> 32 of an inch or so. Not overly critical. If I remember correctly I u=
se=3D
>
> 30 lb. test line. Braided works best. Don't try monofilament.... too
> smooth and tends to "slip" on the clay and also has a "shape memory". =
Th=3D
> e
> string needs to be soft and flexible, have a little "tooth" to the surf=
ac=3D
> e,
> and not tend to have a "memory" of being wound on a roll. No kinks >.=3D
> =3D
>
> Fishing line is great because it was designed to be wet! Doesn't rot a=
ll=3D
>
> that fast.
>
> Cut a piece of string about a foot to 14 inches long. Thread one end
> through the hole you made in the stick, and tie it firmly there. Trim =
of=3D
> f
> the excess from the knowand trim the line so that you have about 8-10
> inches left attached to the pointed stick. Tie a knot in the free end =
of=3D
>
> the line near the free end, leaving a little "pigtail" AFTER the knot t=
ha=3D
> t
> is just long enough to grab between two fingers. This keeps the string
> from fraying and unbraiding and also makes a little "lump" that will te=
nd=3D
>
> to catch on the clay and stabilize the end there.
>
> OK....the tool part is done. Not much more than a pointed stick with a
> string attached. These are sometimes called a "spear". You can find t=
he=3D
> m
> in pottery supply catalogs. Once you understand them... make one that
> really meets your needs and fits your hands.
>
> SO........ now throw a pot on the hump. Finish it up. =3D
>
>
> ( I am assuming that you are throwing in the usual western direction he=
re=3D
> .)
>
> Use the boat prow end of the wood tool held in your right hand to form =
a =3D
> V
> groove in the clay at the level that you want the cut off to be at. Fl=
ip=3D
>
> the tool around in your right hand. Grab the little "pigtail" of the l=
oo=3D
> se
> string in your left hand and hold the stick as if it were a fishing pol=
e
> (pointed end toward your palm) in your right hand. With the wheel
> revolving very SLOWLY....... working at about the 9 oclock position,
> carefully place the loose end of the string (the knot) against the piec=
e
> exactly in bottom of the V grove....and let the string wrap around the
> piece in the center of the grove until the knot end JUST crosses the lo=
os=3D
> e
> string which is feeding onto the piece from the stick. Keep some very
> light tension on the string as it winds up to make it go straight. Don=
't=3D
>
> stop the wheel rotation. Just after they cross each other,
> QUICKLY.....with a distinct SNAP.... flip the stick AWAY from the piece=
(=3D
> at
> about the 9 oclock position) with your right hand as level with the V
> groove as you can.......... causing the string to very quickly close th=
e
> "noose" that was formed when the string crossed and thereby cutting rig=
ht=3D
>
> through the piece.
>
> After a short amount of practice..... they'll be straight and level jus=
t
> about every time.
>
> Most common mistakes..... stopping the wheel before "flipping" the
> stick...... being too "gentle" about the flipping motion.......... and =
no=3D
> t
> flipping the stick in a somewhat level plane with the plane of the inte=
nd=3D
> ed
> cut. Oh yeah...... another one is having finished pieces in the zone t=
ha=3D
> t
> the string whips through off to the right of the wheel . Goes out
> pretty far. Makes a mess of a finished pot . Been there....done
> that.
>
> This can be done with a separate stick tool to make the V groove and th=
en=3D
> a
> simple piece of loose string too....... but the integrated tool makes i=
t =3D
> so
> much faster. Less picking up and handling of tools. And you don't ten=
d =3D
> to
> lose the string .
>
> When you get really proficient at this, the wheel never really stops...=
..=3D
> .
> you finish forming, slow the wheel a bit, set the groove, wrap the stri=
ng=3D
> ,
> flip, and pick off the piece from the slowly revolving wheel, speed up =
th=3D
> e
> wheel, and center the new chunk of clay.
>
> Hope this description is a bit clearer than mud .
>
>
> Best,
>
> ..............................john
>
> John Baymore
> River Bend Pottery
> 22 Riverbend Way
> Wilton, NH 03086 USA
>
> 603-654-2752 (s)
> 800-900-1110 (s)
>
> JohnBaymore.com
>
> JBaymore@compuserve.com
> John.Baymore@GSD-CO.com
>
> "Earth, Water, and Fire Noborigama Woodfiring Workshop 2002 Dates TB=
A"=3D
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 08:40:19 -0700
> From: Dave Finkelnburg
> Subject: Re: the hump's got me stumped!
>
> Penni,
> I use this technique for pieces with a fairly small foot. For piec=
es
> with a larger foot, I use a very coarsely twisted cutoff string, so the
> piece releases from the hump.
> Try cutting the piece off the rotating wheel using the somewhat
> sharpened handle end of your needle too, or a bamboo skewer as suggeste=
d
by
> Liz, or a chopstick, or whatever similar tool is handy. I first saw th=
is
> technique used by a highly skilled Korean production thrower.
> For me I have found it helps to somewhat mark the cutoff point befo=
re
> throwing the piece. I bring up the amount of clay for the piece to the
top
> of the hump, and roughly mark the bottom of the cut piece with an
> indentation groove in the turning hump, then throw the piece, then cut =
off
> using the plastic handle of my needle tool, which I sharpen to a blunt
point
> in a pencil sharpener.
> Hope this helps!
> Dave Finkelnburg
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 17:19:56 +0200
> From: Ababi
> Subject: Re: Making Ceramic Drums
>
> Daryl . Baird promised us a book on this subjet
> Ababi
> ---------- Original Message ----------
>
> >cool drums and other ceramic instruments
>
> >http://www.ninestones.com/begallery.html
>
> >______________________________________________________________________=
__
> >______
> >Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> >You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> >settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> >Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> >melpots@pclink.com.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 12:51:02 EST
> From: Lou Roess
> Subject: Frozen clay
>
> >Have any of you had any experience with frozen clay?
>
> Brandon, We had a lot of clay parked outside over two Colorado winters,=
so
it
> was frozen and unfrozen lots of times. It was interesting because it
could
> then be pulled apart easily into slabs that had layers like shale. It =
had
to
> be recycled in the clay mixer (easy) or wedged by hand (harder) before
using,
> but it was great clay. When you think that clay has been sitting in th=
e
> ground freezing and unfreezing for hundreds of years before we mine it =
and
> use it, it's obvious that it won't get hurt by one more freezing. It j=
ust
> will take time and effort to get it workable again.
> Regards,
> Lou in Parachute (it's in Colorado)
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 09:23:17 -0600
> From: Bacia Edelman
> Subject: Re: Hotel and conference info for NCECA 2002
>
> who knows which hotel might house the main action plus
> the clayart room? is mel back moderating?
> thanks. bacia
>
> >http://www.nceca.net/conf2002.htm#hotels
> >
> >Blocks of rooms have been reserved at special
> >conference rates for NCECA members at
> >
> >Hyatt Regency Crown Center, 2345 McGee Street,
> >816-421-1234. Rates: $120 single/quad. Limited number
> >o
> >The Westin Crown Center, One Pershing Road,
> >816-474-4400. Rates: $120 single/quad. Limited number
> >of rooms at student rates: $100 single/quad -
>
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 12:51:00 EST
> From: Lou Roess
> Subject: A lesson on centering for beginners
>
> One of the joys of pottery is that there are a hundred ways to Sunday =
to
do=3D
> =3D20
> anything associated with it. And in case anyone=3DE2=3D80=3D99s lookin=
g for
anoth=3D
> er slant=3D20
> on centering for beginners, here it is.
> First, as so many have said, have your clay at the right consistenc=
y.
=3D20
> Too hard clay will fight you all the way and win. If it=3DE2=3D80=3D99=
s too
soft,=3D
> you can=3D20
> center it and then let it sit a while to stiffen up. If it=3DE2=3D80=3D=
99s too
ha=3D
> rd it=3D20
> just gets harder.
> Use a bat to throw on. Then you can take the bat off and set your=
=3D20
> finished piece aside for a short while. When it has dried out a bit, p=
ut
th=3D
> e=3D20
> bat back on the wheel, undercut with a wire and remove your piece to a
ware=3D20
> board. Later, when you have more experience you can use stiffer clay
and=3D20
> remove your pieces immediately, just like the big boys and girls do.
> Have the clay in the shape of a ball before you put it on the wheel.
=3D20
> Don=3DE2=3D80=3D99t use too small or too large a piece of clay. Both a=
re more
dif=3D
> ficult to=3D20
> center for beginners. Use a piece about the size of a grapefruit until
you=3D20
> get the hang of it. Slap it into shape in your hands, then place it on
the=3D20
> bat. =3D20
> I like to roll the bottom of the ball around a bit first to make
it=3D20
> slightly conical. Then when you put it on the bat, point down, you ten=
d
to=3D20
> squeeze any air out, not trap it under the clay. And you don=3DE2=3D80=3D=
99t
have=3D20=3D
> to=3D20
> =3DE2=3D80=3D9Cthrow=3DE2=3D80=3D9D the clay down as so many instructor=
s teach.
It=3DE2=3D
> =3D80=3D99s very hard to throw=3D20
> it down and be accurate about where it will land and it=3DE2=3D80=3D99s=
just
about=3D
> =3D20
> impossible if the wheel is turning and centrifugal force is also
affecting=3D20
> the ball of clay. =3D20
> Press down on the clay with the palms of your hands and pull toward
you=3D20
> with your fingers while you turn the ball (which will also turn the
wheel=3D20
> head). You are adhering it firmly to the bat, centering it even more, =
and
=3D20
> and also shaping it into a flat mound. (No power to the wheel yet.) Be
sure=3D20
> to pull in any blobs of clay that stick out to the side, especially
those=3D20
> down near the wheel head..
> Next, wet your hands and/or the clay and start the wheel. Let the
clay=3D20
> run around inside your hands, thumbs on top. You are applying gentle=3D=
20
> pressure but you=3DE2=3D80=3D99re not trying to center yet, just smooth=
ing off
the=3D
> rough=3D20
> edges.
> At this point the clay is very close to being centered and you have=
=3D20
> expended little or no effort. =3D20
> Pull your stool as close to the wheel as it will go and sit as far=3D=
20
> forward as you can.
> Wet down the clay if it is the least bit dry. A dry ball of clay
will=3D20
> stick to your hands and pull itself off center.
> Tuck your left elbow into your left hip joint, and place the palm o=
f
you=3D
> r=3D20
> left hand on the left side of the clay near the front, with the fingers=
=3D20
> pointing away from you and held away from the clay. You have just one=3D=
20
> contact point, the heel of your hand. =3D20
> Start the wheel and lean on the clay. You are not pushing with your
arm,=3D
> =3D20
> you are leaning your whole body forward and because your arm is tucked=3D=
20
> solidly into your hip joint, the arm is exerting pressure on the heel o=
f
you=3D
> r=3D20
> hand and thus on the clay. The clay is centered when it runs smoothly
aroun=3D
> d=3D20
> without pushing back on your hand. Usually just a few rotations is all
it=3D20
> takes to center. I find that a faster speed makes it easier to center,
but=3D20
> that seems to be a matter of opinion.
> You can try this with two hands, but sometimes one hand will be
centerin=3D
> g=3D20
> while the other will be pushing it off center. If you can apply even=3D=
20
> pressure, it=3DE2=3D80=3D99s a good method. Just put the heels of both=
hands on
t=3D
> he clay,=3D20
> tuck both elbows in and lean.
> Keep the clay lubricated so it doesn=3DE2=3D80=3D99t =3DE2=3D80=3D9=
8catch=3DE2=3D80=3D99
o=3D
> n your hands and=3D20
> uncenter itself.
> Lean back and slowly remove your hand from the clay. E-e-ease
your=3D20
> hands off the clay, both while centering and later while throwing.
Removing=3D
> =3D20
> your hands quickly will often put perfectly centered clay off center
again.=3D20=3D
> =3D20
> Keep the wheel head clean by wiping the slurry off of it and your
hands=3D20
> as you go along. Otherwise you will not want to have the sides of your
hands=3D
> =3D20
> down on the wheel head because it will be so gritty. You=3DE2=3D80=3D9=
9ll end
up=3D20=3D
> with clay=3D20
> which is centered at the top but may not be at the bottom. =3D2=
0
> Once you have the clay centered, stop. If you keep working with it=
,
yo=3D
> u=3D20
> will only throw it off again. (Ask someone to let you put your hands
aroun=3D
> d=3D20
> clay that is already centered so you can recognize the feeling.) =3D2=
0
> Realize that when you open the clay it will probably go slightly
off=3D20
> center again. This happens to the best of us. It=3DE2=3D80=3D99s a ma=
tter of
kno=3D
> wing how=3D20
> to get it back on center - no problem. With your cupped hands on the=3D=
20
> outside and your thumbs on the inside of the opened doughnut, press in
and=3D20
> down gently until it is centered again. You may have to do this several
time=3D
> s=3D20
> in the course of opening and pulling.
> If the piece is farther along, more of a cylinder, press the outsid=
e
wit=3D
> h=3D20
> cupped hands to recenter. Don=3DE2=3D80=3D99t get so attached to every=
piece
you=3D20=3D
> make that=3D20
> you spend inordinate amounts of time on an off center pot trying to
=3DE2=3D80=3D
> =3D98fix=3DE2=3D80=3D99=3D20
> it. It=3DE2=3D80=3D99s probably a waste of time.
> Practice by making up six balls of clay. Center one as best you can=
in
a=3D
> =3D20
> few minutes, cut it off the bat and center another. Keep doing this
until=3D20
> you=3DE2=3D80=3D99ve used all six pieces. If you feel comfortable with =
centering
a=3D
> t this=3D20
> point, open the last ball and make a pot. If you aren=3DE2=3D80=3D99t =
sure,
make=3D20=3D
> six more=3D20
> balls of clay and do it again. Don=3DE2=3D80=3D99t plan on making fini=
shed
pieces=3D
> - this=3D20
> is practice.=3D20
> A musician puts in hours of practice and hits lots of bad notes
before=3D20
> gaining a degree of proficiency, and a whittler throws away a lot of
whistle=3D
> s=3D20
> before he learns to make one that works. but beginning potters never th=
ink
o=3D
> f=3D20
> just practicing. If they get something that even remotely resembles a
pot=3D20
> they want to keep it, I suppose because they aren=3DE2=3D80=3D99t sure=
thay can
d=3D
> o it=3D20
> again. But the best way to learn to do it again and do it better is to=
=3D20
> practice.
> This has turned into a longer lecture than I originally planned, bu=
t
I=3D20
> hope it helps someone.
> Regards, Lou in Parachute (it=3DE2=3D80=3D99s in Colorado)
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 10:25:36 -0500
> From: Janice Alexander
> Subject: Re: Back Pain Re: sciatica
>
> Yes, Patti, you are right about the ice. I had sciatic pain about a yea=
r
> ago, and had been putting heat on it for several days. No relief. Frien=
d
> told me that ice would be better. Put ice on and within a few hours, I
could
> stand much better and the pain was going away. By the next day, I was a=
s
> good as new. Did not use the heat again. Have been pain free (knock on
wood)
> since.
>
> Janice in NC
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 09:39:57 -0800
> From: Stephani Stephenson
> Subject: Re: interior designers
>
> I would agree with the person who described the different approaches,
> attitudes, skills of interior designers.
> Some will not be a good match, the key is to build good working
> relationship with the ones whose style and approach complement yours.
> For example I have seen a designer with a very frou frou pink , fussy,
> frilly approach survey work that was organic and dark and massive and
> say, well I do like that but I would need it in pink, and can you put a
> different shape to it and maybe some cherubs on it?
> She had an amazing ability to see what she wanted to see rather than
> what was actually there!
>
> It is just up to you to keep redirecting the designer as you A) educat=
e
> them about your work or B) sadly, defiantly , or gleefully shake your
> head and suggest another artist that may be more suited and escort them
> to the door! unless of course you crave such a challenge!
>
> On the other hand I have worked with other designers who are marvelous,
> perceptive and organized. One woman comes and shops the boneyard,
> putting together fantastic things for her clients, art rising from the
> rubble! Laird gives her a good deal because she does all the work
> herself, she just shows up and grazes independently, and uses odd stuff
> which will likely not sell any other way, combines it in ways I would
> never think of, and she takes little of anyone's time. She knows what
> she wants and she finds it and she pays a decent price for it. And she
> loves the stuff.
>
> another designer started out with stock orders and now throws me
> wonderful work, custom work, but he trusts my judgment and ability and
> so gives me a free hand with the pricing , concept and completion. He
> will give me the dimensions and a few hints on what he is looking for
> and I do the rest. We have similar tastes so it is greatly rewarding fo=
r
> me, price wise, creative-wise and craft-wise. Customers like him don't
> show up everyday and he values my work so that is one to hang on to.
>
> At least from what I know ,a rule of thumb is that a designer or
> architect receives a 10-15% discount off full retail. they will often
> ask, 'do you give discounts to the trade?'" and that is what they are
> referring to. Sometimes, if it is a small order, they pay full retail.
> If it is a situation where you are helping flesh out the design, doing
> custom work, or doing a lot of consulting, visit to a site, etc. you
> will charge them over and above retail, in the form of 'upcharges' for
> making a mold, site visits, layout, time and services, etc.
> A designer does not receive a full wholesale discount in my experience,
> often times they charge the client a hefty price for those same
> materials in addition to other fees they receive for the client,.
> On the other hand sometimes the designer is not making much
> more,especially with 'moonlighters'. so that discount is important to
> them. It all depends and there is a HUGE variety!
>
> As with other business arrangements, have a sheet stating your terms
> such as payment and returns policies. With a new customer I absolutely
> require 50% deposit before any work begins, or payment in full upon pic=
k
> up or shipment of order. once a working relationship is established I
> will sometimes go to
> invoicing and require payment upon receipt or within 30 days. also I tr=
y
> to give them estimates of lead time right at the outset.
>
> I think designers, architects and landscape designers and architects ar=
e
> a great source of business....your margin is higher than with wholesale
> accounts and they can bring more business to you than a typical
> individual, also some nice high profile projects. Often they will
> publish or photograph their projects for publication, advertising or
> portfolios and your work will gain some additional exposure that way.
> It is just another option . another card in your hand. Sometimes it
> plays nicely when other cards aren't.
> Stephani Stephenson
> steph@alchemiestudio.com
> Carlsbad CA
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 17:08:51 -0000
> From: putitinink@YAHOO.COM
> Subject: Re: doggone it
>
> Cathi is right on the mark with her comments. I can usually
> immediately spot the poorly bred purebred OR mixed breed (some of
> which *are* intentionally bred -- i.e., cockapoos, schnoodles,
> labradoodles, etc) as well as the well-bred purebred or happenstance
> mixed breed that lucked out. As a trainer, it was all too obvious
> which family was going to have to difficulties with their pet if that
> pup started out with a negative start in life.
>
> So...go to a reputable breeder or rescue group (check www.akc.org)
> for your next dog.
>
> Back to pottery...
> Sue ;)
> (Who organized and chaired a local rescue group of a popular breed
> for many years.)
>
> <<
> From: Cathi Newlin
> Date: Fri Nov 2, 2001 7:00 pm
> Subject: Re: doggone it
>
>
> I know this is becoming a pretty OT discussion, but since I am
> *deeply*
> involved in both purebreds and rescue, I can't resist...
> I don't think you left the impression that you did not like purebred
> dogs.
> I think in many ways mixed breed dogs *can* be healthier than (and
> I'll
> stress this over and over) *poorly and irresponsibly bred purebreds*
> As a rescuer of purebred dogs (remember...Boxer Bowls!) here in the
> puppy-producing capitol of the world. I see the effects first hand of
> carelessly breeding purebred dogs. The practice exacerbates diseases
> and
> conditions the breed may be predisposed to anyway.
> *But*...responsible breeders will not breed without screening for such
> defects in behavior and health and will breed to better their breed
> (and
> "inbreeding" is rarely used...more often its line breeding). That's
> just
> one reason we constantly harp on folks to *never* buy a dog from a pet
> store. But purebred dogs *do* offer consistency in appearance,
> size, temperament and behavior, and those are desirable too.
>
> Just because a dog is purebred, or papered by some registry or
> another does
> not automatically make it of better quality or a better companion
> than a
> mixed breed pooch.
>
> When I suggested breed-specific ideas for your fundraiser, it was
> mostly
> because often purebred dog owners in whatever country will buy just
> about
> anything representing their breed...especially if its unique, and more
> especially if its for a great cause!
> Best luck with your fundraiser...hope you help lots of pups.
>
>
> >>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 16:57:44 -0000
> From: putitinink@YAHOO.COM
> Subject: Re: mutts
>
> Actually, yes, I have. (You should have seen the looks I got from
> the locals when I took pictures of the passing strays!)
>
> You're correct that the backgrounds of many such canine populations
> are far-removed from any kind of human intervention at all, much less
> a breeding program. The interesting thing is, such populations *can*
> actually develop into a specific breed type (i.e., the dogs breed
> true to form and possess specific traits), whether by chance (limited
> gene pool) or because dogs of a certain type gain favor of local
> residents and survive. Historically, this is how some of the oldest
> breeds originally developed hundreds of years ago. The dogs of a
> given region began to appear as a certain type with particular traits
> (protective coat, herding ability, etc.) and become desirable to the
> humans *because* of those distinctions.
>
> Some years ago, a well-known breeder here got AKC approval to attempt
> to avoid a particular health problem through a novel approach. She
> went to Africa and brought back some of the local Basenjis to enlarge
> the gene pool in this country. As I recall, she had to select from
> dogs that were indigineous to the region but there was no established
> registry (such as the AKC) to vouch for their ancestry. So she was
> basically evaluating their breed type (visible characteristics
> essential to the breed) and choosing from the population that runs
> loose in that area. One of the traits that happened to be introduced
> from those imports was the brindle coat color gene. That's why there
> are now brindle Basenjis available in the US, when previously, only
> reds and blacks were possible.
>
> Just for interest's sake.... ;)
>
> Now back to pottery.....
> Sue
>
>
> From: Cindy Strnad
> Date: Fri Nov 2, 2001 3:36 pm
> Subject: Re: mutts
>
> Dear Sue,
>
> In reading you post (very informative and
> interesting, btw--thanks), I have to wonder if
> you've ever had the opportunity to spend much time
> in a third-world country. I've never been to
> Guatemala, but I did live for a time in Jamaica,
> and believe me--the mutts there are *mutts*. Most
> of them are also wormy, extremely ribby, and
> overall in pretty desperate straits. Not that
> they're all absolutely the same, but they really
> have been crossbred to the point where you
> couldn't finger one or two breeds as having
> participated in ancestry. The breeds here in the
> USA are like marbled clay. Those in the Jamaican
> countryside have been very well kneaded together.
> Really.
>
> >>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 17:49:36 +0100
> From: De ruyter jean
> Subject: Re: Barium...Why?
>
> Hej Cindy
>
> Concerning the leaching and use of medical Barium You certainly have th=
e
> answer.
> When it concerns working with it to prepare our glazes, well that is in=
a
> way risqu=E9.
> The information I have concerning the action of Ba in our body it is
really
> not "
> a cat to handle without gloves "
>
> For people working with it daily a maximum of 1.to.mug (milligram)
> by inhalation of absorption Ba is first stored in the bone muscles and
than
> very fast and permanently
> in the bones.
> The Ba ions are destroying the Ca ions in the skeleton.
> The first symptoms are diarrhoea and vomit.
> 0.2-0.5 gram is toxic
> 1-3gram is lethal.
> You see that there is strong argument to be careful by handling Ba.
> (Sorry for my BENGLISH) I hope it is understandable
> Jan
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cindy Strnad"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2001 4:20 PM
> Subject: Barium...Why?
>
>
> > Hi, Guys.
> >
> > I hate to ask a stupid question--really I do. But
> > here goes. For as long as I've been in clay (5
> > years--not long, compared to many of you), I've
> > heard that barium is bad, bad, bad, and that we
> > must not put it into our glazes. So I just figured
> > "everyone" knew what they were talking about (as
> > I'm still sure they do), and never used it in
> > glazes intended for food use. But I've been
> > wondering about this off and on for quite a while.
> >
> > Why is such a minute amount of barium as may leach
> > out of a glaze such a really, horribly, terribly,
> > very bad thing? I don't have a bottle of MOM (Milk
> > of Magnesia) on hand to check, but doesn't that
> > contain barium? And we used to make sick people
> > drink barium for medical procedures at the
> > hospital. Not just a couple of cc's, either. Great
> > gobs of the stuff. Yech! Not that that means it's
> > good for you, of course, but it must (I hope) mean
> > it's not too lethal or profoundly, permanently
> > damaging. So, will someone please explain this to
> > me?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Cindy Strnad
> > Earthen Vessels Pottery
> > RR 1, Box 51
> > Custer, SD 57730
> > USA
> > cindy@earthen-vessels-pottery.com
> > http://www.earthen-vessels-pottery.com
> >
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
> __
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 16:38:57 -0000
> From: putitinink@YAHOO.COM
> Subject: Re: doggone it
>
> Not at all, Melinda. I simply spotted a bit of common misinformation
> and couldn't let it pass unchallenged. The myth that mutts are
> healthier than purebreds is essentially as accurate as the claim that
> AIDS can be passed by a handshake, but unfortunately, too many people
> believe the former is true.
>
> Back to pottery....
> ;)
> Sue
>
>
> <<
> From: Ron Collins
> Date: Fri Nov 2, 2001 5:47 pm
> Subject: doggone it
>
>
> If I left any impression that I do not like purebreed dogs,or that I
> meant
> anything disparaging, that is far from true.
>
> >>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 16:34:08 -0000
> From: putitinink@YAHOO.COM
> Subject: Re: mutts
>
> Let's not mix apples and oranges, I'm not sure the resulting fruit-
> mutt would be very marketable, though it might be tasty... ;P
>
> I'm quite familiar with the current research on canine genetics.
> (You didn't mention the current efforts to map the canine genome, DNA
> markers for genetic defects, or the AKC's Canine Health Foundation,
> but I'll assume that you're up to date on them. ;D )
>
> I think we're kind of all over the map on this discussion -- the
> narrowing of the gene pool sufficient to create a breed, the
> linebreeding required to develop sound bloodlines and screen out
> genetic problems, inbreeding taken to extremes when a popular sire is
> over-used in a given breed, and the haphazard inbreeding practiced by
> backyard breeders and puppymillers with no knowledge of genetics or
> proper breeding theories mating very close relatives. All of these
> examples are facets of the same issue if you want to call all of it
> *inbreeding,* but there can be VERY different results, ranging from
> highly positive to very detrimental to a breed's (or litter's) health
> and soundness (both mental and physical). Again, you need to know
> what you're doing and how to do it properly, but my point is that
> *inbreeding* (more often practiced as LINEbreeding with not-so-close
> relatives) is NOT ALWAYS a detrimental practice.
>
> The only reason that I responded to the original poster's message was
> to nip it in the bud when I saw her claim of mixed breeds being
> healthier than purebreds -- about equivalent to the claim that AIDS
> can be passed by a handshake.
>
> Your comments on breedings the need to look for a reputable breeder
> are right on the mark.
>
> Sue
> (For the record, I've been the chair of my local breed rescue
> (directly placing about 50 dogs a year and assisting on a couple
> hundred more) since organizing it some years ago.
>
> <<
>
> From: Lee Love
> Date: Fri Nov 2, 2001 11:02 am
> Subject: Re: mutts
>
> Sue and Melinda,
>
> While I am a fan of the purebred Akita dog (I brought my Akita
> Taiko with
> me to Japan), I know there are problems related to inbreeding in
> purebred dogs.
> See below for information.
>
> There is a big market for breed specific products. All you
> need to do
> is scan the web and see for yourself,. I've both sold them and
> donated them
> to my local Akita Club in St. Paul and have donated to the national
> Akita club
> for fund raising for health issue and rescue.
>
> Melinda, usually mutts are just a combination of two or more
> inbred
> purebred dogs, often of accidental breedings. No health checks (hips,
> eyes
> thyroid problems, etc.) or selection for diversity or temperament is
> done.
> Often these mixed breed dogs are bred to close relatives so can be
> more inbred
> than your average purebred dogs. So, inbreeding, in purebreds and
> mutts is
> not good for their health. The big reason for going with a
> reputable purebred
> breeder is because you can look for a breeder who follows breeding
> practices
> that focus on the better health and temperament of the dog, rather
> than just
> gamble. For more info, see below:
>
> The Canine Diversity Project
>
> http://www.magmacom.com/~kaitlin/diverse.html
>
> The Canine Diversity Project is an attempt to acquaint breeders of
> domesticated
> Canidae (dogs) with the dangers of inbreeding and the overuse of
> popular sires.
> Both lead to the indiscriminate loss of genetic diversity and
> increase the
> frequency of genetic problems in the population.
>
> Popular Sires
> http://www.magmacom.com/~kaitlin/diversity/other/popsire.html
>
> The Poodle and The Chocolate Cake:
>
> http://www.magmacom.com/~kaitlin/diversity/essays/cake.html
>
>
> --
>
> Lee Love
> Mashiko JAPAN
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 20:15:57 +0200
> From: Ababi
> Subject: Thought about sand casting
>
> I had tried twice to make sand casting follow the article of Kari
> Brovold Hagen in the lovely book "Creative Ideas For Clay Artist, was
> published first in CM.
> As I don't intend to copy the article I will go forward and backward in
> a way that I will not get a literature price for this letter.
> It was a mistake to follow her great Idea of adding oil, to avoid
> using too much water. On the other hand it was interesting to use
> bentonite as an add. We know what bentonite and water do, We read that
> Bentonite is being used to stop oil, from running. An emulsion. Nice
> material. (Perhaps we can use it for Mayonnaise).
> The first problem was What to do with the left over oily sand?
> The second problem was What if I live in Texas or Shoval, where the
> water dries fast, what for I need the oil in the mix?
> Except making it all around dirty?
> I suggest to start from the beginning. If you live New York or North
> read her article and follow her directions. Actually this is not a
> recipe but direction. as I said according to your climate.
> If you live somewhere between Shoval L.A. San Diego or Johannesburg.
> take sand add water and build a "negative" sand palace, in a wooden /
> box cardboard full with sand.
> The writer calls for a wooden box, similar to the kind you use
> for preparing the plaster cast: Strong, but you can easily remove the
> walls.
> This is how I made it: Took a cardboard box wrapped it around with
> plastic the kind you wrap around packages to reinforce the box. Inside
> I put a plastic bag , to protect the paper box from the humidity of the
> wet sand. Than added the sand and followed the explanations.
> I failed twice. Yet It have learnt something.
> I might repeat it in the summer.
> I added a JPG to "Development of ideas" in my site. Perhaps If I would
> a bigger studio and bigger patient. It would not have to be dumped.
> Ababi Sharon
> Kibbutz Shoval- Israel
> Glaze addict
> sharon@shoval.org.il
> http://members4.clubphoto.com/ababi306910/
> http://www.milkywayceramics.com/cgallery/asharon.htm
> http://www.israelceramics.org/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 10:08:06 -0800
> From: claybair
> Subject: Re: Bonsai/ Cactus pots
>
> Hi Capt. Mark,
> I am curious about the cactus pots. Do they have a drain hole? Do they
need
> one?
> Are thee any standards as to dimension? Do they have to be glazed insid=
e?
> Curious minds need to know!
> Thanks
> Gayle Bair
> Bainbridge Island, WA
> http://claybair.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 09:28:50 -0600
> From: Mary O'Connell
> Subject: Re: Making Ceramic Drums
>
> Dear Ryan,
>
> While in school I researched ceramic musical instruments and made a cou=
ple
> drums. Best to high fire the drum body. I bisqued and then pit fired =
a
> couple and stretched the skins nice and tightly. When the winter came =
and
> the air dried the skins shrunk more and tore the top part of the cerami=
c
> drum off. Pretty brutal but I learned a good lesson.
>
> Good luck with your venture.
>
> Mary O'Connell
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ryan Clyde-Rich
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2001 10:39 PM
> Subject: Making Ceramic Drums
>
>
> > I am a student doing a research project. I am trying to gather resear=
ch
on
> > making ceramic drums. I would be willing to read anythign that relate=
s
to
> > design or construction. If anyone has any ideas about books or web si=
tes
> > that are related to drum building I would really appreciate it.
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Ryan
> >
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
> __
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 20:46:50 +0100
> From: Russel Fouts
> Subject: Re: The Big Green Egg
>
> But LORI drives a Mitsubishi Storm Trooper that she has to climb up
> into!
>
> And then there's Merrie and Lucille. Merrie's the potter Lucille is the
> chain-saw!
>
> Ru, gonna go do some "butch" stuff in my studio for a while. ;-)
> --
>
> Russel Fouts
> Mes Potes & Mes Pots
> Brussels, Belgium
> Tel: +32 2 223 02 75
> Mobile: +32 476 55 38 75
> Http://www.mypots.com
> http://www.Japan-Net.ne.jp/~iwcat
>
> "There is a theory which states that
> if ever anyone discovers exactly what
> the universe is for and why it's here,
> it will instantly disappear and be
> replaced by something even more bizzarly
> inexplicable."
>
> "There is another theory which states
> that this has already happened!"
>
> Douglas Adams' The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 20:35:16 +0100
> From: Russel Fouts
> Subject: Re: big green eggs and reverse misogynism
>
> Millie,
>
> >> I have always had Vans or Jeeps. (my son has my old 85 Grand
> wagoneer, a real truck.)
> My dream is a pick up truck of my own. ( wound up renting a ford ranger
> when we were
> in TN this past summer, I hated to turn it in.) <<
>
> Lisa Skeen told me I wasn't "girl" enough to driver her truck! ;-)
>
> Ru
> --
>
> Russel Fouts
> Mes Potes & Mes Pots
> Brussels, Belgium
> Tel: +32 2 223 02 75
> Mobile: +32 476 55 38 75
> Http://www.mypots.com
> http://www.Japan-Net.ne.jp/~iwcat
>
> "There is a theory which states that
> if ever anyone discovers exactly what
> the universe is for and why it's here,
> it will instantly disappear and be
> replaced by something even more bizzarly
> inexplicable."
>
> "There is another theory which states
> that this has already happened!"
>
> Douglas Adams' The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 14:05:20 -0500
> From: Christena Schafale
> Subject: Re: the hump's got me stumped!
>
> Penni,
>
> I had this problem too, when I first started off-the-hump throwing. Th=
ree
> suggestions:
> 1) Keep at it, after awhile you will get a better sense of where the
bottom
> of your pot is. Make a groove with a fettling knife about 1/4" below
where
> you think the inside bottom is, before you try cutting off. If you are
> consistently cutting through the bottom, try deliberately making the
groove
> lower than you think it "should" be.
>
> 2) Try using the fettling knife to make the cut, with the wheel
> turning. If you are really coordinated, the pot will end up balanced o=
n
> the knifeblade and you will transfer it gracefully to your wareboard (O=
n
> the other hand, if you are like me, the pot will go 'splat" on the floo=
r
as
> you make the transfer at least half the time)
>
> 3) What actually works best for me is to use a more flexible cutting wi=
re
> -- the typical ones are too stiff and always seem to leave a gouge or a=
n
> uneven place. I find a twisted nylon "wire" works well.
>
> Having said all that, I have to admit that I still end up doing some
> trimming on most of my hump-thrown pots, though I do less and less as t=
ime
> goes by. Good luck.
>
> Chris
>
> At 04:56 PM 11/4/01 -0500, you wrote:
> >After several tries I am left frustrated and at a loss for what to do.
> >I am trying to do a series of small vases (less then 1/2 pound of clay=
)
so
> >I am throwing off the hump. Centering.....no problem. creating the
> >vessel.....no problem. cutting it off the hump.....HUGE PROBLEM.
> >I either end up with no bottom (most of the time) or with such a ragge=
d
> >bottom it would need a ton of trimming. I have tried using my pin tool=
as
> >a cutter as well as my cutting wire. Both do OK but I can't get an eve=
n
> >(straight) or smooth bottom if I have one at all! It is either not the=
re
> >or is on an angle and is ragged.
>
> Consultation and Referral Specialist
> Resources for Seniors
> christenas@rfsnc.org
> www.resourcesforseniors.com
> Phone: (919) 713-1537
> FAX: (919) 872-9574
> 1110 Navaho Dr, Suite 400
> Raleigh, NC 27609
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 13:45:48 -0500
> From: "Belton, Christine"
> Subject: Re: mugs for breast cancer event
>
> Dear Billie,
>
> Here's the information:
>
> " I am a potter and breast cancer survivor and started Cups for the Cur=
e
in
> gratitude for my recovery. My friend Polly was a teacher who died of
breast
>
> cancer two years ago and I now call my project, the Polly Kellum Cups f=
or
> the
> Cure.
> I also take small bowls and all the money goes to breast cancer researc=
h.
> The past two years each raised over $10,000.
> You can send pots to me: Jan Omans, 1565 Forest Ave., Winter Park,
Fl.
> 32789
> Mike Lalone, ceramics teacher at Dr. Phillips High School, in Orlan=
do
> has
> had his students participate every year and feels it is a great way for
> young
> people to contribute to helping the world with their art. Thanks for y=
our
> response and I look forward to your reply. All the best, Jan Omans"
>
> Good luck!!
>
> Christine
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: billie schwab [SMTP:billieschwab@HOTMAIL.COM]
> > Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2001 7:55 PM
> > To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> > Subject: mugs for breast cancer event
> >
> > i have lost the address to send mugs to and cannot find it in the
archives
> > -
> > which also means i do not have the name of the person, from this list=
, i
> > originally go the info. from
> > can anyone help me out?
> > tia,
> > billie
> >
> > www.venus-pottery.com
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
> >
_________________________________________________________________________=
_
> > ____
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> > melpots@pclink.com.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 13:30:41 -0500
> From: "Belton, Christine"
> Subject: Re: Making Ceramic Drums
>
> Ryan,
>
> Try this website: http://www.ninestones.com/burntearth.shtml
>
> Christine
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ryan Clyde-Rich [SMTP:rclyde400@EARTHLINK.NET]
> > Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2001 11:40 PM
> > To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> > Subject: Making Ceramic Drums
> >
> > I am a student doing a research project. I am trying to gather resear=
ch
on
> > making ceramic drums. I would be willing to read anythign that relate=
s
to
> > design or construction. If anyone has any ideas about books or web si=
tes
> > that are related to drum building I would really appreciate it.
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Ryan
> >
> >
_________________________________________________________________________=
_
> > ____
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> > melpots@pclink.com.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 23:27:05 +0200
> From: Michal Alon
> Subject: Re: photos of workshop in Italy
>
> Hello Lindsay,
> As one of the lucky participants in the Marcia's Oct workshop in Italy =
I
> just wanted to say that the photos do not even start to show what a
> wonderful time we've had. It was a great workshop and a wonderful time.
> Marcia not only was generously informative and teaching, but was also v=
ery
> busy "mothering" us all... And Pietro was more then a wonderful host at=
La
> Meridiana, which is a beautiful place and a very well equipped studio a=
nd
> lovely accommodations. And then there's the food... Christina is simply
> unbelievable...
> In short - go if you can, you won't regret it.
> Michal
> In Israel
>
>
> lindsay stevenson wrote:
> >
> > Marcia the photos are incredible. when are you scheduling the next
> > workshop? I would like to be put on the mailing list. thx lindsay
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
> __
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
> --
> Marcia Selsor
> selsor@imt.net
> http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls
> http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls/May2001.html
> http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls/Tuscany2001.html
> http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls/Gallery.html
>
>
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
> __
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 16:11:15 -0500
> From: Susan Fox-Hirschmann
> Subject: Re: Back Pain--EXERCISE ---the key!
>
> As a potter and personal trainer, i will stress to all of you the
importance
> of EXERCISE to keep you all healthy and capable of doing the work we al=
l
> love. This means a balanced program, of cardiovascular
> (aerobic) exercise, minimum 20 minutes 4 times a week, as well as some
> weight (resistance) exercises, and then, and only when the muscles are
> warmed up, some gentle stretching. OF COURSE you should never begin an=
y
> exercise program without the approval of your doctor.
>
> The key to overcoming back pain, i think, at least if it is a muscle is=
sue
> (and not discs) is to strengthen your CORE_----that is your chest,
abdominal
> muscles as well as all your back muscles and Glutes (meaning rear end!)
But
> the best way, as i said above is with a BALANCED program, that strength=
ens
> the entire body, using every muscle group. Of course, i recommended
working
> with a trainer that understands the body, and the proper form and amoun=
t
of
> weight you should use for each exercise. This means using easily
managable
> weights in the proper way, for exercises that will use all your muscle
> groups, large as well as smaller muscles.
> Doing only part of the body, sets you up for possible muscle imbalances=
,
> that could cause other injuries.
>
> I look as exercise as a "warm up" to my work, that gets me warmed for
> throwing pots---and hope to be able to do it the rest of my life. It ha=
s
> just become as way of life for me, and also is great as far as "stress"
> management. When you are sweating hard, it is really difficult to thin=
k
> about things that have been worrying you!!!
>
> So if i can help any of you--feel free to email me off list, if you lik=
e
> susan fox hirschmann
> annandale, va
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.=
asp
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 11:43:05 -0500
> From: Marianne Lombardo
> Subject: Re: Back Pain
>
> Hi Chris;
>
> You are right that exercise is the best way to get rid of a lot of ache=
s
and
> pains. I too have arthritis in my spine. For months I was working out=
at
> the local "Y" but I really hated it. I did lose weight, but hated to g=
o,
so
> eventually stopped. It made me exhausted, and caused headaches, to the
> point where I had to take a two hour nap to recover. Seriously.
>
> Now I have a 5 month Golden Retriever pup and I have to walk him twice =
a
day
> so that helps somewhat.
>
> Marianne
> Peterborough, Ontario
>
>
> > How I hate to be one of these people BUT, exercise.
> > I have arthritis and my back use to kill me after sitting at the whee=
l
all
> > day. I started kickboxing and jogging three months ago. I've not ha=
d a
> > single twinge in my joints since. And I can work all day and not pay
for
> it
> > later.
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 21:46:22 +0100
> From: "F.Chapman Baudelot"
> Subject: reverse misogynism
>
> The reason that I am now back in Spain is that I was "replaced", mainly=
=3D20
> because I was an "anomaly" and would always buy tools and gadgets
rather=3D20
> than shoes and clothes. However, I see that I am in good company.
> I'm still without kiln or wheel or clay, but I have acquired a little=3D=
20
> Yorkshire terrier pup from my potter friend Sophie Cuendet, to replace
the=3D
> =3D20
> dear old doggie I had to leave behind. She is a great comfort to me.
> My future pottery will no longer be 'Indalo Pottery', but 'Alfarer=3DED=
a
el=3D20
> Fenix'. Here in Almer=3DEDa just about every kind of business from=3D
> electronics=3D20
> to cement factories are called 'Indalo'. I'm just hoping that future
is=3D20
> not too far distant and that 'El Fenix' will indeed arise from the ashe=
s
of=3D
> =3D20
> 'Indalo Pottery'.
> So, all you female "anomalies" married to cleanfreaks, be=3D20
> warned................
> Fran=3DE7oise
>
> http://indalopottery.tripod.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 14:14:52 -0600
> From: LOWELL BAKER
> Subject: Hyatt-NCECA 2002
>
> I just called the Hyatt and they are already out of rooms at the
> conference rate. The new non-conference rate is $180. Have we
> been baited and switched or are there huge numbers of you making
> early reservations? I did get a room at the westin.
>
> See you in KC.
>
> Lowell
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 15:10:00 EST
> From: ASHPOTS@AOL.COM
> Subject: Re: Bonsai/ Cactus pots
>
> Also , i dont bother glazing the inside, i spray all my ash glazes. I d=
o
> spray on the lip on the inside, just so i see glaze instead of raw clay=
,
its
> a matter of taste , i think
>
> Capt Mark
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 15:07:17 EST
> From: ASHPOTS@AOL.COM
> Subject: Re: Bonsai/ Cactus pots
>
> Hi Gail, instead of 1 or 2 big holes i use a drill and i make lots of
holes
> like a collonder. I also use elevated feet . I spend more time trimming
the
> pots then the time to throw them
> I grow plants , plants like curculation and good drainage
> as far as making Bonsai pots and just making 1 or 2 big holes , they ar=
e a
> pain in the a. Most bonsai pots , you have to wire a screen to keep th=
e
soil
> in. When you repot the roots have grab the screen and have sucked it up=
,
hard
> to cut loose.
> Capt Mark
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 12:33:09 -0800
> From: Dai Scott
> Subject: Re: Back Pain, now exercise
>
> >Chris said: " How I hate to be one of these people BUT, >exercise."
>
> I tried the jog/walk routine, but found, especially at this time of yea=
r,
> that I just didn't do it, because it required putting on civvies, leavi=
ng
> the house/studio, then having to change into potting clothes when I got
> back, and try to get enthused about potting. Just too much disruption =
for
a
> frantic, behind-the-8-ball potter. So, what I do now is skip---yes, th=
e
old
> skipping rope thing. I can do it in my carport, rain or shine (or snow=
),
> don't need to change clothes, can fit it in any old time of day---it's
> perfect! I'd like to say I do it religiously every day, but I'd be lyi=
ng
> . But, hey, the rope is waiting there any time I want to skip.
> Dai in Kelowna, BC, trying to remember all those skipping songs we used=
to
> chant in elementary school.
> "There is no right way to do the wrong thing."
> potterybydai@shaw.ca
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 12:23:02 -0800
> From: Dai Scott
> Subject: Re: Frozen clay?
>
> Hi, Brandon, and welcome! Frozen clay can certainly be used after
thawing,
> but requires more wedging or running through a pugmill to get it ready =
to
> throw than clay that hasn't been frozen. The freezing and thawing
> process(es) create a texture that is sort of like cottage cheese, in th=
at
> there are slimy, watery areas separating "curds" of drier clay. Needs =
to
be
> cut-and-slammed, then wedged to get it in shape. The (only) bonus is t=
hat
> you have some nice clay to work with afterwards.
> Dai in Kelowna, BC
> "There is no right way to do the wrong thing."
> potterybydai@shaw.ca
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 16:56:55 -0800
> From: Ed Kraft
> Subject: Re: Back Pain--EXERCISE ---the key!
>
> Susan
>
> I agree that exercise and strengthening those back mussels is the long
term
> solution. My twist on that theme is to meditate. I meditate for a minim=
um
of
> 1hr daily. Holding your spine in a strait line for that long really
> strengthens those mussels. Plus there is the added benefit of a calm mi=
nd.
> Ed
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Susan Fox-Hirschmann"
> To:
> Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 1:11 PM
> Subject: Re: Back Pain--EXERCISE ---the key!
>
>
> > As a potter and personal trainer, i will stress to all of you the
> importance
> > of EXERCISE to keep you all healthy and capable of doing the work we =
all
> > love. This means a balanced program, of cardiovascular
> > (aerobic) exercise, minimum 20 minutes 4 times a week, as well as som=
e
> > weight (resistance) exercises, and then, and only when the muscles ar=
e
> > warmed up, some gentle stretching. OF COURSE you should never begin =
any
> > exercise program without the approval of your doctor.
> >
> > The key to overcoming back pain, i think, at least if it is a muscle
issue
> > (and not discs) is to strengthen your CORE_----that is your chest,
> abdominal
> > muscles as well as all your back muscles and Glutes (meaning rear end=
!)
> But
> > the best way, as i said above is with a BALANCED program, that
strengthens
> > the entire body, using every muscle group. Of course, i recommended
> working
> > with a trainer that understands the body, and the proper form and amo=
unt
> of
> > weight you should use for each exercise. This means using easily
> managable
> > weights in the proper way, for exercises that will use all your muscl=
e
> > groups, large as well as smaller muscles.
> > Doing only part of the body, sets you up for possible muscle imbalanc=
es,
> > that could cause other injuries.
> >
> > I look as exercise as a "warm up" to my work, that gets me warmed for
> > throwing pots---and hope to be able to do it the rest of my life. It =
has
> > just become as way of life for me, and also is great as far as "stres=
s"
> > management. When you are sweating hard, it is really difficult to th=
ink
> > about things that have been worrying you!!!
> >
> > So if i can help any of you--feel free to email me off list, if you l=
ike
> > susan fox hirschmann
> > annandale, va
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
> __
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 21:30:38 -0500
> From: Helen Bates
> Subject: Copper Red Ceramics
>
> To my friends on Clayart;
>
> Here's just a little sampling of what I found from my search in
> www.google.com's search engine when I entered the terms "Copper red".
>
> \\> Eddie and Margaret Curtis
> http://www.eddiecurtis.com/
> Work in Copper Reds, Celedons, blues at cone 11+
> Interesting for the extremely tall and narrow pieces Eddie makes -
> demo slides included
> ///
>
> \\> Christine Cox
> http://www.potfest.co.uk/ChristineCox/christinecox.htm
> Copper Reds, Barium glazes, and more
> ///
>
> \\> Daniel Vito and Donna Hetrick
> http://fireborn.com/
> This husband and wife potter team have a high quality production
> studio of quite formal functional pieces.
> They show a child's kick wheel at:
> http://fireborn.com/chilkicwheel.html
> (I don't know if they sell them)
> ///
>
> \\> G.F. and Penny Cloud (2 sites)
> http://www.cloudsporcelain.com/
> http://www.sushiware.com/index.html
> A California company with more than 20 potters producing a large line
> of functional ware.
> Of particular interest is a link to a Japanese restaurateur's
> presentation of several dishes using the Cloud's porcelain in the
> Japanese tradition:
> http://www.sushiware.com/sushiya.html
> ///
>
> \\> Rod Queen
> http://www.azstarnet.com/~rqueen/
> Competent, attractive studio ware, of which I especially like the
> "Desert Scenes" pieces.
> ///
>
> \\> John Tilton
> http://www.tiltonpottery.com/
> Mustn't forget John! (Site under construction, but images of pots are
> up)
> Does lovely glazes, especially yellow, and crystalline, both glossy
> and matte.
> ///
>
> \\> The Percival David Foundation
> http://www.artofmemory.co.uk/david/
> (Click on picture when site loads, then on "collection", then on
> "browse collection". )
> Small but neat site features beautiful ancient chinese porcelain.
> (Pictures of modest size.)
> ///
>
> \\> Paul Frazer
> http://www.frazerstudios.com/
> Large site with mainly sculptural works, though often referencing the
> vessel to a greater or lesser degree.
> ///
>
> \\> Ivar MacKay
> http://www.porcelain-shirepottery.co.uk/
> ///
>
> \\> History of Imari Pottery
> http://www.net-jp.com/nut/koimari/e_koimari.shtml
> (The site takes a second or so to load the English files)
> Brief text with each picture.
> Click on Chapter 1. then on any link for a page with images of 5 or 6
> pieces in that particular chapter.
> Each chapter links to the next.
> ///
>
> \\> Vermeer and Griggs
> http://www.teadust.com/
> Antique Chinese Porcelain
> A site with a lot of images, well-presented.
> Has many links to sites about Asian Art, as well as a link to Chinese
> pottery Chronology
> ///
>
> \\> John Eagle
> http://ren.netconnect.com.au/~lstudios/
> Australian Studioo potter (Site under construction)
> Lush copper reds, in combination with blues, greens and golds
> ///
>
> Regards,
>
> Helen
> --
>
>
>
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> Helen Bates
> mailto:nell@quintenet.com
> Web - http://www.geocities.com/nelbanell/HelensClayPicks.html
> Bill Amsterlaw's link to my Clayart Posts -
> http://amsterlaw.com/nell/
>
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 16:16:20 -0800
> From: chris clarke
> Subject: Re: Back Pain -- hating exercise
>
> Marianne stated
> For months I was working out at
> > the local "Y" but I really hated it.
>
> That's the key!!! You won't do it if you hate it. I have a stationary
> bike, hate it. Clothes hanger. I have a rowing machine, hate it, gone.
I
> have a tread mill, hate it, don't know where it is.
>
> But I found a gym that appeals to my aggressive side. Kickboxing is
> something I look forward to. We workout on heavybags for an hour, I lo=
ve
> it. Wrap up those hands but on those gloves and beat the hell out of a
bag
> while our drill instructor trainer yells at us. Everything melts.
Granted
> when I first started, I came home and dropped to couch with a major
> headache. Found out the headaches were caused by not drinking enough
water
> and the exhaustion went away after a while.
>
> Walking a dog is walking and it counts. So does shooting hoops, or
anything
> else that gets ya moving.
>
> Now that I'm hooked, I've a year long membership to my gym, locked in. =
It
> helps that I'm paying for it, since I'm so cheap I can't bear to miss a
> class and not get my money's worth. It also helps that I'm bathing sui=
t
> ready long before the season!!!
>
> I've now added jogging to my off days, had to buy an MP3 player though,=
I
> need music to keep me going.
>
> And again, I hate being one of these people. My family already ganged =
up
on
> me and told me they hate it too. But it has helped my studio time, I'm
> throwing longer hours and larger pieces. I still have those two hour n=
ap
> days though =3D )
>
> chris
>
>
> temecula, california
> chris@ccpots.com
> www.ccpots.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 23:40:37 +0000
> From: Steve Mills
> Subject: Re: the hump's got me stumped!
>
> In message , Patrick Logue writes
> >Hi Penni
> >You could try this; after you've made the piece put a
> >groove at the base with a trim tool.This acts as a
> >guide for the cutoff wire.You can stop and guage your
> >floor depth that way too..You might try fishing line
> >for smaller pieces.
> >good luck
> >Pat
>
> after you cut the groove, take a piece of thin string, wet it, and with
> the wheel turning very slowly, lay one end of the string in the groove,
> feed the string in until it has completed one full circle, then, with
> the fingers of your other hand ready to catch the pot, pull the string
> smoothly outwards. Mel the main man illustrated this very well in an
> edition of PMI, which he published on his website.
>
> Steve
> Bath
> UK
>
>
> >--- Penni Stoddart wrote:
> >> After several tries I am left frustrated and at a
> >> loss for what to do.
> >> I am trying to do a series of small vases (less then
> >> 1/2 pound of clay) so I am throwing off the hump.
> >> Centering.....no problem. creating the vessel.....no
> >> problem. cutting it off the hump.....HUGE PROBLEM.
> >> I either end up with no bottom (most of the time) or
> >> with such a ragged bottom it would need a ton of
> >> trimming. I have tried using my pin tool as a cutter
> >> as well as my cutting wire. Both do OK but I can't
> >> get an even (straight) or smooth bottom if I have
> >> one at all! It is either not there or is on an angle
> >> and is ragged.
> >> Any suggestions?
> >> TIA
> >> ~~~~
> >> Penni Stoddart of Penelope's Pots
> >> President, Artisans London (Ontario, Canada)
> >>
> >> "When I die, I want to die like my grandmother who
> >> died
> >> peacefully in her sleep. Not screaming like all the
> >> passengers in her car."
> >> * Author Unknown
> >>
> >>
>
>________________________________________________________________________=
___
___
> >> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >>
> >> You may look at the archives for the list or change
> >> your subscription
> >> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >>
> >> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> >> reached at melpots@pclink.com.
> >
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >Find a job, post your resume.
> >http://careers.yahoo.com
>
> --
> Steve Mills
> Bath
> UK
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 17:47:03 -0600
> From: Kurt Wild
> Subject: What Can I Do With a Wood Stove? - long
>
> Since I have been off Clayart for a few days what I have to offer at th=
is
> point may be redundant but I'm going to offer it anyway.
>
> Before offering my thought I would like to say that Snail Scott's comme=
nts
> of Nov. 3rd were excellent. I have added, in italics my comments to
what,
> in part he said...."Used burnished pots, pre-heated on top of the stove.
> (Burnished the clay; no terra sig.) Did a Mata Ortiz-style firing by
> putting the pot on a stilt (in the stove) spreading rabbit poop (sawdus=
t)
> around, and covering it with a coffee can. A good seal is required for
> blackware and can be achieve by doing the above on a bed of ashes and
> squiggling the can down into the ashes to provide a seal. (The Mata Or=
tiz
> folks use cow pies, (and cotton wood bark) .....,.but
> . Since the can was inside the stove, I didn't put any poop banked up
> around the can. I got some great solid-
> black pots - ....."
>
> If the stove is not dampered down and burns somewhat clear you might be
> able to get more oxidized pots. Get a nursery flower pot (not one made
> with acrylic but a real clay pot with a hole in the bottom). Invert th=
at
> pot over your pots to be fired/. Your piece should be on stilts or pie=
ces
> of old kiln shelf and then prop the flower pot up about a half inch so
> there is an opportunity for air to get under the flower pot.
>
> If you don't want to do the preheating as Snail Scott suggests, start t=
he
> fire away from the can as far as you can and feed the fire little by
little
> keeping it low for about 45 minutes and then stoke it up! The same
> technique can be used outside in a bonfire situation (summer camps,
etc.).
>
>
> Another technique first published some years ago in Ceramics Monthly de=
alt
> with primitive style firing in a barbecue grill. See "Barbecue and
> Fireplace Firing", Poupeney, June 1977, pg. 59.
> As I remember the article it dealt with a firing that mimicked doing ba=
ked
> potatoes, only with pots and sawdust wrapped in aluminum foil in a
barbecue
> grill .
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 15:54:49 -0600
> From: Dale Neese
> Subject: See you in KC
>
> Whew, I didn't realize that the rooms at the Hyatt would have been take=
n =3D
> so fast. I did make reservations early on this past summer.
> Dale Tex
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 16:46:47 -0500
> From: Ilene Mahler
> Subject: Re: Hotel and conference info for NCECA 2002
>
> Does anyone know which hotel Clayart rRoom will be in..Ilene had such a
> great time last year looking foward to this year
>
> Bill Edwards wrote:
> >
> > Below is the site information on hotels and their
> > addresses. This site is a spring board for information
> > some have asked questions about. Some questions I may
> > not have an immediate answer to but I will forward
> > them on to the sources I have for additional help in
> > securing answers to questions regarding the March 2002
> > NCECA convention.
> > http://www.nceca.net/conf2002.htm#hotels
> >
> > Blocks of rooms have been reserved at special
> > conference rates for NCECA members at
> >
> > Hyatt Regency Crown Center, 2345 McGee Street,
> > 816-421-1234. Rates: $120 single/quad. Limited number
> > of rooms at student rates: $90 single/double; $115
> > triple/quad - applicable only if student ID is
> > presented at check-in. Reservations deadline: February
> > 12, 2002.
> > The Westin Crown Center, One Pershing Road,
> > 816-474-4400. Rates: $120 single/quad. Limited number
> > of rooms at student rates: $100 single/quad -
> > applicable only if student ID is presented at
> > check-in. Reservations deadline: February 11, 2002.
> > Room tax is 12.6%, subject to change.
> >
> > The below link carries you to the specifics of the
> > hotels.
> > http://www.crowncenter.com/crown-recreationF.html
> > http://www.crowncenter.com/crown-westin.html
> >
> > William Edwards
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Find a job, post your resume.
> > http://careers.yahoo.com
> >
> >
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
__
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 16:33:12 -0500
> From: Ilene Mahler
> Subject: Re: Aardvark Bee Mix
>
> I am in love with Loafers Glory a cone 10 white nogrog clay that makes
> fantastic crystals and they were great to me at Highwater..Ilene in Con=
n
>
> Christena Schafale wrote:
> >
> > Re: problems with clay, I agree wholeheartedly with the following:
> >
> >
> > >Honestly I think that most companies have had clay/glaze/equipment
problems
> > >at various times.
> > >The real issue here is what they do about it. When contacted did the=
y
say,
> > >"Oh you are the first person who has said there is a problem. you mu=
st
be
> > >doing something wrong! Bye!" without querying you at all. Or do they
say
> > >something like, "Yes, we are sorry. We just found one of our raw
material
> > >suppliers has switched sources. We will be happy to replace the clay=
,
glaze,
> > >equipment or here's how to fix ____ etc."
> >
> > I had a problem with foreign objects in some clay from Highwater in
> > Asheville last year, and when I made it clear that I was not happy wi=
th
the
> > situation, Brian very graciously replaced the clay (several hundred
> > pounds). Now I am a VERY loyal Highwater customer. I use their
Speckled
> > Brownstone (cone 6) and P5 porcelain (cone 5-6), and have been very
happy
> > with both, other than this one problem.
> >
> > Chris Schafale
> >
> >
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
__
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 16:55:07 -0800
> From: Brad Sondahl
> Subject: Diesel etc. fired kiln idea
>
> I've got a retired 7 cu.ft. electric kiln I've been considering
> converting to a diesel kiln. The reasoning is this--although most
> reduction kilns are gas fired, they require a large tank of fuel or
> access to gas lines, and lots of special burners etc. The idea is to
> use low tech gravity flow of liquid fuel to a pan inside the kiln where
> it would start burning, and let the kiln itself be the burner. This is
> probably similar to oil drip burning kilns. I've heard of using
> furnace burners, but don't think forcing air through the kiln (which I
> think would be a byproduct) is the most efficient way of heating the
> kiln (too much heat out the flue). As it is gas firings mostly take so
> long due to all the heat going up the flue. I've encountered two
> problems, which I expected-- getting the kiln to vent out a down draft
> chimney, and getting sufficient oxygen to burn the fuel without a fast
> (large)draft.
> I've tried getting the draft started by heating the chimney with a
> propane torch, and by putting in some fuel. For trial purposes only,
> I've dripped fuel through a clay tube into a spoonlike burning area. I
> also drilled a 3/4 inch hole at an angle down to it so I could monitor
> the burning and for adding oxygen. Unfortunately these steps have stil=
l
> resulted in death by CO and CO2. I'm guessing I need a larger primary
> air intake (I already expanded the chimney hole to about 2" in diameter.
>
> Would like to hear from others who've experimented with this sort of
> thing.
> Brad Sondahl
> --
> For original art, music, pottery, and literature, visit my homepage
> http://pages.about.com/bsondahl
> Pottery homepage http://sondahl.freeyellow.com
> New music site at mp3.com http://www.mp3.com/sondahl
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 19:54:44 EST
> From: Neil Fallon
> Subject: Re: the hump's got me stumped!
>
> John Baymore wrote a very detailed description of a small tool and meth=
od
of
> removing a piece from the hump. As a reference point, John showed me
(taught
> me) how to make and use this simple homemade tool. Using this tool and
method
> makes cutting from the hump a task that one can anticipate without
trembling
> from fear.
>
> One note, plan on having at least on piece totally ruined during the
learning
> process. But do keep practicing. You'll be amazed the results of
efficiently
> snapping the line through the clay. Sounds stupid, but I still grin eve=
ry
> time I do this.
>
> Neil
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 16:59:20 -0500
> From: Chris Jones
> Subject: pictures of last red firing
>
> Hello all,
>
> I have taken a photo of my last firing and added it to my web site. Go =
=3D
> to the photo archive page. I added some pics of finished firings and =3D
> some shots of red mugs (tests). The picture of the blue and green mugs =
=3D
> was my last firing and is the one I wrote my recent posts about. =3D
> Enjoy.......
>
> Chris
> Visit www.jonespottery.net =3D20
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 13:44:21 -0800
> From: primalmommy@IVILLAGE.COM
> Subject: must be an easier way
>
> Hi folks. I have been experimenting with 100 gram batches of glaze made
with my local (wolf lake) earthenware. It has been a slow and laborious
process (both low tech and low budget) and at the risk of opening myself =
up
to ridicule, I'm going to describe it in hopes that someone will pity me =
and
suggest a better way.
>
> When I dug the clay, I mixed it into a thickish slop with water, and
poured/squished it through the strainer basket of an old washing machine =
to
sort out the big chunks of root/rock. Then it dried hard into chunks.
>
> To grind it, I take a chunk in my hand and rub it back and forth on an =
old
window screen over a bowl. (like for hours.) Then I take the resulting
powder and rub it through an 80 mesh sieve.
>
> God help me if I LIKE one of these glazes and want to make a BIG batch.=
..
>
> So how do I grind up these chunks of clay and turn them into powder?
>
> another quickie: I have seen an albany slip glaze that is 90 albany, 10
lithium carb, and am trying that with my clay. also a mix of clay and ash=
es.
Is there another obvious 'addition" I should try mixing with the clay, to
make it more like a glaze?
>
> And yes, i know it's ridiculous to spend this much energy on locally du=
g
stuff, but this lake is practically a holy site for my dad, and i really
want to glaze his gift in "his" lake's clay...
>
> thanks in advance
>
> Yours, Kelly in Ohio -- swamped with last minute "orders" from family a=
nd
friends who want me to whip up some stuff for their christmas giving list.
My mother in law wants pitchers, colanders, "kitcheny things", all "in th=
e
10 to 15 dollar range". Oh, and can you match their kitchens?
>
> Somebody shoot me...
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> iVillage.com: Solutions for Your Life
> Check out the most exciting women's community on the Web
> http://www.ivillage.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of CLAYART Digest - 4 Nov 2001 to 5 Nov 2001 (#2001-309)
> ************************************************************
> =01=01=01
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