Lois Ruben Aronow on tue 18 dec 01
I was reading Jenny's post about blue selling (among other things).
Got me thinking - what exactly is "blue"? Is it a cobalt blue? a
teal blue? a primary blue? My studio partner often tells me glazes I
consider blue (such as a luscious satin-y robin's egg blue) are not
really considered blue - they are green. I have a teal blue, which
looks VERY blue to me, yet I am told it is not really considered
"blue". Blue is something else - blue - not teal blue. Just BLUE.
I've used Floating Blue in the past, and personally, I don't find it
very attractive. Is that what is meant by blue? I am only just
beginning to do shows, so I wonder: what is this blue that makes pots
fly off the shelf?
Other than the robin's egg and the teal, I don't really work with
blue. I'm the queen of green. Have no problem selling green,
especially chartreuse(!). =20
Cindy 673-3260 Strnad on tue 18 dec 01
Hey,
If you can sell green, why worry about it? You like green;
make green. Green is great! :) By the way, tell your secret
so I, too, can sell green.
Cindy
Martin Howard on tue 18 dec 01
Just had a lovely lot of bowls come out of the kiln. MY type of green:-)
Secret? No, simplicity itself.
2% copper oxide, CuO, in a white earthenware slip.
That is applied by dipping at leather hard stage to my red earthenware pots.
Fired at 1100+ and then clear glazed and fired at 1100+ again.
Soaked for 1 1/4 hours at top.
Result is a dusky, soft derby green, with sort of cloud formation light and
darker patches.
Very restful. Now to see if it sells.
Martin Howard
Webbs Cottage Pottery
Woolpits Road, Great Saling
BRAINTREE, Essex CM7 5DZ
01371 850 423
martin@webbscottage.co.uk
http://www.webbscottage.co.uk
Updated 13/12/01
Marta Matray Gloviczki on tue 18 dec 01
Martin Howard wrote:
>Just had a lovely lot of bowls come out of the kiln. MY type of green:-)
>
>Result is a dusky, soft derby green, with sort of cloud formation light and
>darker patches.
martin,
what about putting up some pictures of your green to your website?
i`d love to see it,
marta
C. Burkhart on wed 19 dec 01
> Forget what potters call any thing . We give the strangest names to
things. If it has not got a japanese name derived from some mountain area in
china, it has to be from the French - after some pantomime caricature
dressed in green.<
So I've noticed, Paul. Do you suppose these countries would
adopt any of us aging potters so we may claim undisputed credibility?
Perhaps they could bestow the title of "Living Adopted Treasures."
Regards,
Carolsan
Janet Kaiser on wed 19 dec 01
Blue is just one of three primary colours, the other two naturally being
yellow and red... Beyond that, "teal", "turquoise", "French", "Navy",
"indigo", "Prussian", "azure", "cobalt", "Venetian", "baby" etc. etc. are
all just shorthand forms, which are supposed to indicate to others, whether
you mean a warm blue or a cold blue, does it tend towards yellow and is
therefore greenish, or red and therefore more purple? Is it milky and
opaque, or pure and shiny? Indeed, who can point at a "primary blue"?
Colour theory is an absolute minefield!
And all because people's perceptions of colour are VERY individual indeed.
There are so many million colours or hues that the human eye cannot "carry"
a precise colour, only an approximation. Even the most trained eye cannot
look at a colour, walk out of the room and then point at that exact colour
in a swatch... That has yet to be done and it is highly unlikely that
anyone will ever acquire this facility.
That is why a retailer's heart will sink, when someone says, "Oh, that is
exactly the same colour as my sofa/carpet/curtains... I would like a whole
set please". They usually return the lot and say, "It didn't quite match".
It is why I personally try to steer people into buying a complementary
colour... If they say their room is "in tones of peach", I will do my
damndest to show them how good a "lime green" would look...
The names we give colours are only an aid to the general "area" to which we
refer. The various colour systems which have been invented to quantify and
record colours have to rely on numbers, and the human brain cannot deal
with that. Hence all these "pet", "fashion" or "tradename" colours. For
example, if I say "coca-cola red", everyone would know which hue I am
referring to. Maybe cobalt blue too, although cobalt to a potter is a
slightly different animal to the cobalt blue of the fine artist... It gets
even more difficult when someone says "turquoise"... What you call
turquoise is probably different to what I would envision. "Peach" is
another one which everyone seems to have a different perception of... I
just know that most have very little to do with the actual colour of a
peach, unless it was tinned and even then, what is called "peach" is much
more red/pink than any peach I ever saw!
We are also very influenced by the fashion industry and this is constantly
changing. My mother would refer to colours such as Nigger Brown, Eau de
Nil, Duck Egg Blue and Cerise... Most young people today would have no idea
what she was talking about and absolutely no concept of the "colour
direction". What my grandfather would call Khaki, is quite a different
colour to what I would imagine at mention of the name. And if I were told
"cinnamon", "citrus yellow" and "desert sand" are this year's "in"
colours... Well, I wouldn't really have much conception of what they are...
just a general idea.
What is known as "teal", could be classed as either a blue or a green. It
just depends on who is looking at it. And don't forget those in the
population who are colour blind to some degree... From slight to complete
colour-blindness...
In short, any colour which is NOT yellow or red, MUST BE BLUE!!! Or maybe
not...
Janet Kaiser
The Chapel of Art . Capel Celfyddyd
Marine Crescent . Criccieth LL52 0EA . GB-Wales . UK
E-MAIL: postbox@the-coa.org.uk
WEB: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
TEL: (++44) 01766-523570
Home of The International Potters' Path
Got me thinking - what exactly is "blue"? Is it a cobalt blue? a
teal blue? a primary blue? My studio partner often tells me glazes I
consider blue (such as a luscious satin-y robin's egg blue) are not
really considered blue - they are green. I have a teal blue, which
looks VERY blue to me, yet I am told it is not really considered
"blue". Blue is something else - blue - not teal blue. Just BLUE.
I've used Floating Blue in the past, and personally, I don't find it
very attractive. Is that what is meant by blue? I am only just
beginning to do shows, so I wonder: what is this blue that makes pots
fly off the shelf? Other than the robin's egg and the teal, I don't really
work with blue. I'm the queen of green. Have no problem selling green,
especially chartreuse(!).
Snail Scott on wed 19 dec 01
At 10:55 AM 12/19/01 -0600, you wrote:
>Interestingly people 100-150 years ago could not perceive the color
purple. Through the process of evolution our perceptions of color become
finer.
>
Say what? (And how much evolution can there be
in 150 years?) Sorry, but I have to question your
source on this!
Color terminology has changed, to be sure...the
color the classical world called 'purple' was a
bit to the mulberry side of the modern crayon
color, but they certainly perceived it! And in
medieval times the English language had no word
for 'orange'; There was simply no need felt at
the time to ascribe a different name to that
shade of yellowish-red. (They had a lot of other
names for colors later on, though, which would
shame the imagination of any catalog-description
writer...a Renaissance English favorite of mine
is a shade of off-white called 'dead Spaniard'!)
The word 'orange' entered the language in the same
manner as words like 'teal' or 'turquoise', by
reference to an object of the color in question.
What color do we call hair if it matches a carrot?
...a classic example of a linguistic archaism
which raises no eyebrows at all; we don't assume a
visual deficiency in the viewer, but rather a
commonly accepted use of language. It's dangerous
to confuse nomenclature with perception!
-Snail
Martin Howard on wed 19 dec 01
Marta wrote website?
i`d love to see it>
Yes, that is one of my many next projects. First I must attend a CPA slide
lecture and demo by Stephen Brayne on Saturday 9th March at The Crafts
Council, 44a Pentonville Road, London N1 9BY.
Cost is between 5 and 15 pounds sterling depending on whether a full time
student, a CPA member, or a potter who hasn't yet joined the CPA!
As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.
But it had better be a good one which accurately portrays what is intended.
And photographing colour is the most difficult thing.
Martin Howard
Webbs Cottage Pottery
Woolpits Road, Great Saling
BRAINTREE, Essex CM7 5DZ
01371 850 423
martin@webbscottage.co.uk
http://www.webbscottage.co.uk
Updated 13/12/01
Alisa og Claus Clausen on wed 19 dec 01
This caught my attention because I am also very much to green rather than blue.
My father once told me that there was an article written in one of his antique
newsletters, about what nationalities buy what color. Blue for Germans and
Green for French. My mother is French, so that is the only documentation I
have
for any truth in these observations...
However, I have a palette of blues in my store. Turkish blue, cobalt blue,
Brown with blue streaking, etc. etc. The blue I sell the most is a blue
produced with Cobalt and Tin or Zircopax. It gives a blue what people
here call a "kitchen" blue. I would call it like a cornflower blue. Also,
gloss
over matt. There are many base gloss recipes you can color with 1-2%
cobalt plus 1%tin or Zircopax
to give a kitchen blue.
Some of my favorite greens are cobalt greens, so that is eating your cake too!
Have a good holiday to all,
Alisa in Denmark
Lois,At 09:54 18-12-01 -0500, you wrote:
>I was reading Jenny's post about blue selling (among other things).
>Got me thinking - what exactly is "blue"? Is it a cobalt blue? a
>teal blue? a primary blue? My studio partner often tells me glazes I
>consider blue (such as a luscious satin-y robin's egg blue) are not
>really considered blue - they are green. I have a teal blue, which
>looks VERY blue to me, yet I am told it is not really considered
>"blue". Blue is something else - blue - not teal blue. Just BLUE.
>I've used Floating Blue in the past, and personally, I don't find it
>very attractive. Is that what is meant by blue? I am only just
>beginning to do shows, so I wonder: what is this blue that makes pots
>fly off the shelf?
>
>Other than the robin's egg and the teal, I don't really work with
>blue. I'm the queen of green. Have no problem selling green,
>especially chartreuse(!).
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
Carole Rishel on wed 19 dec 01
Interestingly people 100-150 years ago could not perceive the color purpl=
e. Through the process of evolution our perceptions of color become fine=
r. =20
=20
Carole Rishel
Smithville, TX
kallahcee@msn.com
From: Janet Kaiser
And all because people's perceptions of colour are VERY individual indeed=
.
There are so many million colours or hues that the human eye cannot "carr=
y"
a precise colour, only an approximation. Even the most trained eye cannot
look at a colour, walk out of the room and then point at that exact colou=
r
in a swatch... That has yet to be done and it is highly unlikely that
anyone will ever acquire this facility.
My mother would refer to colours such as Nigger Brown, Eau de
Nil, Duck Egg Blue and Cerise... Most young people today would have no id=
ea
what she was talking about and absolutely no concept of the "colour
direction". What my grandfather would call Khaki, is quite a different
colour to what I would imagine at mention of the name. And if I were told
"cinnamon", "citrus yellow" and "desert sand" are this year's "in"
colours... Well, I wouldn't really have much conception of what they are.=
..
just a general idea.
Janet Kaiser
Paul Taylor on wed 19 dec 01
Dear Lois
Here in NW Europe it's the other way round . There are many blue celadons
made with a hint of green, they are all considered blue - the power of
wishful thinking over perception..
Forget what potters call any thing . We give the strangest names to
things. If it has not got a japanese name derived from some mountain area in
china, it has to be from the French - after some pantomime caricature
dressed in green.
However if you do not know the secret language it puts you out of the
network.
What you could do, if you have the neck, is to give your next blue
glaze a fancy chinese sounding name - you can make one up. If you can bluff
the name with confidence it could be a long while before you are caught out.
when you do meet a Chinese speaker you just share the joke with him.
By then it is too late. By then Well respected academics will be
discussing the names origins - " a Sanscript name for a southern Mongolian
blue flower" etc. And we can be arguing about it on clay art.
The more I think abut it the more fun it could be. Because chinese is by
accounts a very ornate and visual language, and what would make you cringe
in English would sound ok in Chinese , or our pronunciation would be so bad
it would not matter .
For your Blue - "The blue of the silent spring " , for those old
fashioned sixties buff glazes - "Oat meal sandals and hairy legs', and for
those tan matt glazes - " Dog on dried food ".
Regards Paul Taylor.
--I am afraid we have become one of the people our parents warned us
against.
http://www.anu.ie/westportpottery
> From: Lois Ruben Aronow
> Reply-To: Ceramic Arts Discussion List
> Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:54:31 -0500
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: What exactly is "blue"?
>
> I was reading Jenny's post about blue selling (among other things).
> Got me thinking - what exactly is "blue"? Is it a cobalt blue? a
> teal blue? a primary blue? My studio partner often tells me glazes I
> consider blue (such as a luscious satin-y robin's egg blue) are not
> really considered blue - they are green. I have a teal blue, which
> looks VERY blue to me, yet I am told it is not really considered
> "blue". Blue is something else - blue - not teal blue. Just BLUE.
> I've used Floating Blue in the past, and personally, I don't find it
> very attractive. Is that what is meant by blue? I am only just
> beginning to do shows, so I wonder: what is this blue that makes pots
> fly off the shelf?
>
> Other than the robin's egg and the teal, I don't really work with
> blue. I'm the queen of green. Have no problem selling green,
> especially chartreuse(!).
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
Earl Brunner on thu 20 dec 01
Yeah Snail, I agree, I am certain that it is more of an evolution of words and
language than an evolution of sight. Language changes all the time.
If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is there does it make a noise?
Philosophy aside, I doubt very much that it took the creating of a word to to allow
us to see color.
Snail Scott wrote:
> At 10:55 AM 12/19/01 -0600, you wrote:
> >Interestingly people 100-150 years ago could not perceive the color
> purple. Through the process of evolution our perceptions of color become
> finer.
> >
>
> Say what? (And how much evolution can there be
> in 150 years?) Sorry, but I have to question your
> source on this!
>
> Color terminology has changed, to be sure...the
> color the classical world called 'purple' was a
> bit to the mulberry side of the modern crayon
> color, but they certainly perceived it! And in
> medieval times the English language had no word
> for 'orange'; There was simply no need felt at
> the time to ascribe a different name to that
> shade of yellowish-red. (They had a lot of other
> names for colors later on, though, which would
> shame the imagination of any catalog-description
> writer...a Renaissance English favorite of mine
> is a shade of off-white called 'dead Spaniard'!)
>
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
mailto:bruec@anv.net
Lee Love on thu 20 dec 01
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carole Rishel"
>Interestingly people 100-150 years ago could not perceive
>the color purple. Through the process of evolution our
> perceptions of color become finer.
Depends on "what people." :^) Lady Murasaki certainly could. She
wrote what is considered the worlds first novel, Tale of The Genji. She lived
973-1025 C.E. In Japanese, Murasaki means purple. In China and Japan purple
was the color of the nobility.
The founder of the school of Zen I study, Eihei Dogen, refused the
purple robes presented to him by the Emperor because his Chinese Zen teacher
told him to stay as far from the captiol and politics as possible. He lived
between 1200 and 1253 C.E.
More on Murasaki:
"Murasaki Shikibu is the best known writer to emerge from Japan's glorious Heian
period. Her novel, The Tale of Genji (Genji-monogatari) is considered to be one
of the world's finest and earliest novels. Some argue that Murasaki is the
world's first modern novelist."
Read more here:
Excerpts from the writings of Lady Murasaki
http://www.womeninworldhistory.com/excerpts9.html
--
Lee Love
Mashiko JAPAN Ikiru@kami.com
Interested in Folkcraft? Signup:
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Lexxy on thu 20 dec 01
Janet...Good essay on blue and it reminds me of Anji's signature tag "Good
art doesn't have to match the sofa!" I'm lettering that on a slab to make a
banner and hang with my pots. In fact I have started filling up my studio
with slogans that inspire me along with my favorite pix from magazines.
[I replied to this message with "select all" so it goes to the sender and
the list.]
Lexxey
East GA, Pottery & Gardening
http://www.flummoxed.org/lexxey/index.htm
-
Blue is just one of three primary colours,
In short, any colour which is NOT yellow or red, MUST BE BLUE!!! Or maybe
not...
Janet Kaiser
Wesley Rolley on thu 20 dec 01
Blue is that color which gets Clayart folks excited. This is in contras=
t=20
to a recent post in which the author (I forget whom) complained about hi=
s=20
"boring tan" and got not a single response.=20
--=20
Wesley C. Rolley
wrolley@refpub.com
"I find I have a great lot to learn =96 or unlearn. I seem to know far =
too=20
much and this knowledge obscures the really significant facts, but I am =
getting on." -- Charles Rennie Mackintosh
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