vince pitelka on wed 2 jan 02
> Well I've just had a good lesson in how easy it can be to misuse someone's
> work without realizing it. I've been using one of Mike Bailey's
transparent
> base glazes since I got his book. I'm getting very nice glazes from a
> variety of colorants - glazes that smooth out, don't pinhole, don't craze,
> etc. The recipe contains lithium carbonate, and zinc too for that matter,
> and I became concerned about that due to a discussion about lithium in
this
> forum. I did what has become natural - I posted a message asking whether
I
> should be concerned about the lithium in the glaze. Like a good girl, I
> included the recipe and formula for the glaze in question, never stopping
to
> think that I was posting a newly published recipe. I did give Mike credit
> for the glaze, so that's some comfort.
Wanda -
I cannot imagine that Mike or anyone else would complain about this. In
fact, by bringing such a discussion of a possible problem with one of his
glazes into the public forum you are probably doing Mike a favor. If you
are having trouble with a recipe from a book, and if the author is
accessible, as is the case with John and Ron, then the first course should
certainly be to contact the author. The author will most likely be very
helpful, and might even suggest that you pose the question to the discussion
list, including the recipe.
In general, if you are having trouble with a glaze taken from a particular
book, and you want to discuss the problem on Clayart, then the recipe should
be included in the discussion, and there would be no question of plagiarism
or copyright violation. But if possible, contact the author first.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Wanda Holmes on wed 2 jan 02
Well I've just had a good lesson in how easy it can be to misuse someone's
work without realizing it. I've been using one of Mike Bailey's transparent
base glazes since I got his book. I'm getting very nice glazes from a
variety of colorants - glazes that smooth out, don't pinhole, don't craze,
etc. The recipe contains lithium carbonate, and zinc too for that matter,
and I became concerned about that due to a discussion about lithium in this
forum. I did what has become natural - I posted a message asking whether I
should be concerned about the lithium in the glaze. Like a good girl, I
included the recipe and formula for the glaze in question, never stopping to
think that I was posting a newly published recipe. I did give Mike credit
for the glaze, so that's some comfort.
This is very tricky - how do we discuss results, problems, concerns without
giving all necessary information for analyis? If we are working with these
newly published recipes, should our protocol be to correspond with the
authors privately? To publish unity formulas without the recipe?
As a consumer of the original work of many of you here, I could use some
guidance.
My apologies to Mike.
Wanda
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of Ron Roy
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 10:30 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Posting Recipes from Newly Published Books
I'm grateful for this discussion - it's helping me frame my attitude
towards publishing recipes from books - or should I say reframe my attitude
- it is suddenly a more important subject for me.
When I saw a recipe posted from Mike Bailey's book some weeks ago I was
shocked - but I said - Oh it's just because of our book and I said nothing
- besides - it will look as if I am looking after my own interests. I am
still not sure I made the right decision.
I very much like the idea of sharing information - as I am sure you all
have ample evidence. Makes me want to let everyone share everything but
there are - or should be some rules.
I would never share information that the author did not want me to. Not
here or in print or verbally. I know this is beside the point here but just
setting the mind frame.
John and I have mortgaged the homestead to make this book happen - well
maybe not that much - but enough to keep me going for years. If we are not
commercially successful with this book we will not do another - there are
more pleasant ways to spend our golden years. That would be a shame because
there is much work still to be done - This book raises the bar but there is
lots more to do.
I know there are some who will want the information we have worked so hard
to document for nothing - I would feel good if you all made it as difficult
as possible for them to get it.
On the other hand - some of the information included is so important that I
want you to give it away any chance you get - In the end I cannot decide
for you - as for myself - I will not post any of the recipes from our book
- and I expect John will be of the same mind.
By the way - some of you voiced some concern about how the writing of this
book would affect our relationship. We still don't agree on everything -
and never will - and essential ingredient for successful collaboration -
but speaking for myself - John has been the perfect co-author - hard
working - considerate - dedicated - trustworthy - if I had made a wish list
up before hand I would only have had half the attributes on it that John
brought to the job.
What did we disagree on? To tell the truth I can't remember - is that age
or friendship? Frankly I don't give a damn I'm just very happy it all
worked out that way.
RR
Ron Roy
RR# 4
15084 Little Lake Rd..
Brighton,
Ontario, Canada
KOK 1H0
Residence 613-475-9544
Studio 613-475-3715
Fax 613-475-3513
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Ababi on wed 2 jan 02
>My apologies to Mike.
>Wanda
===========================================
I want to answer my opinion to some of the letters. I do not think you
Wanda,made any harm to Mike Bailey if you posted a recipe from his book.
You might give more people the idea they could learn from the book.
I tell you: A great book! I hardly use the recipes, but I have learned
a lot from it and whenever I need something, I look back to the right
chapter.
I asked some people before: Am I allowed to quote a recipe from a book?
I even asked a common friend to ask a writer for a permission.
Both times, I got the answer, that I can quote, but should write where
from I got the recipe.
Sometimes there are questions, that I can answer, but I prefer to write
in this book you will find it.
It is kind of tricky to know where to do and where not to.
If my writing to clayart caused people to by Bailey's book, or Lana
Wilson's book or Val Cushing's book than there is no harm if I copied a
recipe into a letter.
I have a rule.
When I make a new glaze, I write to me and to you the mother recipe,
as honoring the first developer, and not to forget where it has been
started.
Another rule: never copy a page or so.
Alisa wrote, she took recipes from the net. The net could be a privet
letter that copied to a site
Another rule
In my humble site I mention a lot of recipes. but write down only mine.
Another one: Butterscotch is not mine I got it from Marty Anderson.
To Ron and John: I respect you and will not quote from your book.
On the other hand, it might help to roll around the book, though I
belive both of you are well known in this field and have other ways to
let people know about the existence of your book.
I ordered your book, and got discount of the mail, which is great. I
tell you, if I was not be sure it would be a great book, I would wait.
I understand I am not the only one
To Ron. The way I know you and John, the main thing, before beauty, is
the safety, or the way you have wrote lately stability. I belive there
is place for both books as yours will provide the beautiful yet stable
glazes, while Mike Bailey goes "wild" too.
In every new ceramic book I read, I hate page one to fifty, as they say
"the same", yet I read them as each writer has a different point of
view about this "pure technical" magic field that drags me like drugs.
Ababi Sharon
Kibbutz Shoval- Israel
Glaze addict
ababisha@shoval.org.il
http://members4.clubphoto.com/ababi306910/
http://www.milkywayceramics.com/cgallery/asharon.htm
http://www.israelceramics.org/
Khaimraj Seepersad on thu 3 jan 02
Hello to All ,
Wanda ,
first you would have to determine if the Glaze Author
actually invented the Glaze Recipe or if the Glaze
was yet another variation [ of another variation .....]
Then, did you alter it to fit the body your using or is
the body also the suggested body for that particular
glaze.
Hmm, contacting the author. I did this with aid of Ceramic
Review , some admitted they had just made variations
of older glazes/bodies. Some couldn't help as they hadn't
thought along those lines.
One exceptional Australian , sent me a Big Package of
information on everything.
[ It was embarrassing , I could offer nothing in return ].
By the time you went through all this you would probably
be in Knots !
This is what I did .
I learned all I could that was specific to what I was doing.
Then I created three glazes and they do the bull work.
I design my shapes and decorate them, no happenstance.
Please be forewarned that I am not a Professional Pottery
just a Hobby /Amateur Potter [ of twenty some years ] and
do not sell my work .I give it away.
I spent 3-4 years just making glazes and enamels at 983 deg.
c [ orton small cone 08 ] every day , to understand what
each of the "Non Toxic " metal oxides did.[ Na20 ,K20 , Ca0
, Sr0 , Mg0 , Ti02 , Si02 , P203 ,Fe203 , Zr02 , --{ Al203 } ]
and the some what Toxic - B203.
Plus some many years , learning to clean , refine and use
local clays.
At cone 10 to 6 orton , life is much easier and especially if
you have access to Feldspars or their kin.Good glass starts
at 60 % Si02 and often needs no B203 , or Li20.
If you must use a Toxic Oxide , use it on non-functional wares.
Leave the pretty , pretty for vases , shapes etc.
Otherwise you may have to do batch testing [ bucket to bucket
of glaze mixes ] , to ensure leaching [ chemical ] , physical
wear and so on.
Invent your own glaze effects.
Best to you and the Pandora's Box.
Khaimraj
* I am a Traditional Painter , and I do Pottery and Bonsai
as my relaxation , and to keep up my hand to eye co-ordination.
-----Original Message-----
From: Wanda Holmes
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: 02 January 2002 11:52
Subject: Re: Posting Recipes-Putting my foot in it
>Well I've just had a good lesson in how easy it can be to misuse someone's
>work without realizing it.
>This is very tricky - how do we discuss results, problems, concerns without
>giving all necessary information for analyis? If we are working with these
>newly published recipes, should our protocol be to correspond with the
>authors privately? To publish unity formulas without the recipe?
>
>As a consumer of the original work of many of you here, I could use some
>guidance.
>
>My apologies to Mike.
>
>Wanda
Marianne Lombardo on thu 3 jan 02
> Where do we stop? When we post no testing because we must be absolutely
> sure we are not unintentionally doing anyone damage and become a weeble
world?
Not sure just what a weeble world is, but it sounds positively awful.
Heaven forbid that we become a weeble world. Keep posting, Alisa. Keep on
mixing, testing, and posting. :<)
Marianne Lombardo
Omemee, Ontario, Canada
| |
|
