Anne K. Wellings on sun 6 jan 02
Thanks for everyone's advice on plates and soft or hard clay.
A lot of people make plates by flattening out the whole piece of clay
first to the desired thickness and then pushing up the edges into a mound
or "roll" from which to throw the rim or lip. I have been aware of this
for years but have hesitated to try it because it wasn't how I was taught
and I thought "why flatten out the clay and then unflatten it again?". I
thought it was inviting trouble by overworking the clay in the edge area.
(I've known some people who flatten the whole thing and then lift up the
edge with a rib or other tool to create a pie-plate-like rim. This sounds
worse to me than pushing it up into a roll and then throwing a rim from
it, especially if then making the rim wide and flat.)
It occurs to me that the way I do it, leaving the clay that will become
the rim separated into a roll from the beginning, could make it harder to
establish the thickness of the plate from center to edge because you are
coming up against the rolled area with your rib or hand or whatever.
I would like to try this other method but am afraid my plates will be
different than before, I will be redesigning them. As many problems and
concerns as I have had with them, they turn out pretty well. I'd just
like them to be easier. But I hesitate to change methods in the middle of
a plate order I've been struggling with. Any encouragement?
Anne
Elca Branman on mon 7 jan 02
Trying out a different way is an exploration, not a commitment..
Give yourself permission to be curious for an hour or two..trying a
different approach..
You might end up liking it, hating it or incorporating it..
Its like raw oysters..you got to try them to find out if you love them or
leave them.
Elca Branman
On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 08:37:32 -0500 billie schwab
writes:
> Anne said:
> >
> >I would like to try this other method but am afraid my plates will
> be
> >different than before, I will be redesigning them. As many problems
> and
> >concerns as I have had with them, they turn out pretty well. I'd
> just
> >like them to be easier. But I hesitate to change methods in the
> middle of
> >a plate order I've been struggling with. Any encouragement?
>
>
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Elca Branman.. in Sarasota,Florida,USA
elcab1@juno.com
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Tamara Williams on mon 7 jan 02
Is there a simply way to make plates with out a mold or a wheel?
billie schwab on mon 7 jan 02
Anne said:
>
>I would like to try this other method but am afraid my plates will be
>different than before, I will be redesigning them. As many problems and
>concerns as I have had with them, they turn out pretty well. I'd just
>like them to be easier. But I hesitate to change methods in the middle of
>a plate order I've been struggling with. Any encouragement?
Ann,
Each week I use some of my time to "learn" or "tryout" new ways of doing
something, I currently do. I may try something for a couple of weeks and
decide....nah, I like the old way better. I may try something new for a
couple of weeks and decide.....geez, why did I wait so long to do it this
way.
Regardless, I would finish the plate order you are working on in whichever
method will give you results consistent, with what you have already made, to
fill that particular order. Don't be afraid to dabble with other methods
meanwhile. It is so easy to get into a rut because it is familiar to us.
Remember the saying "Nothing changes? Nothing changes!".
billie
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potterybydai on mon 7 jan 02
Anne said: "> I would like to try this other method but am afraid my plates
will be different than before....."
Anne, just try a couple and see if they're different. Won't take much time;
if you find they're very different from what you're doing, go back to the
old way till you finish the order, then carry on with the new technique.
I've done them both your way, and the other way described (using a rib to
get under the edge,then making it into a rim). I seem to always go back to
my old way (your way), but I think I'll try the other (third)
alternative---moving the flattened clay in to produce a roll, then pulling
it up to make the rim. I found that using the rib to lift the outer edge
into a rim produced a rim that was too weak---probably wasn't doing it
right, but it never seemed to work really well for me. The one advantage
was that it was easier to make the plates all the same diameter, curved
transition and rim size. The third alternative (moving in a roll) may prove
to be the best of both methods.
Dai in Kelowna, BC, trying to get back into a routine after the holidays :(
"Never put off until tomorrow that which can be avoided altogether."
attributed to Ann Landers
Cyberpotter@AOL.COM on mon 7 jan 02
Whew, I never realized there were so many ways of making plates! The method I
use, or truth be told, that I don't use much because plates are not my
favorite thing to make, is to throw a "finished" low cylinder and then tip
the wall out with a wooden rib.
Nancy in Cincinnati
Gary Ferguson on tue 8 jan 02
One idea to make plates without throwing or using a hump mold is using a
piece of cloth/canvas draped across say a 5 gallon bucket. A slab (of any
shape) could be laid on the cloth which would create a natural concave (and
even) shape. When semi-dry a foot ring or foot pegs could be added.
Gary Ferguson
www.garyrferguson.com
Marsh Pottery on tue 8 jan 02
I've been following the 'Plates' discussion with interest.
My wrists (especially the left one) are in terrible shape from centering
stiff clay for 35+ yrs. I recently bought a slab roller to help keep the
damage from worsening.
Question: Is there an optimal way to make Cone 6 porcelain plates using
circles cut from the slab roller? One that will not require much wrist
pressure? How thick should the clay be, please?
Thanks in advance for any help you care to offer.
Marsha
Marsh Pottery Studio
http://www.marshpottery.com
Tony Ferguson on tue 8 jan 02
Marsha,
Why don't you just slump them--I've tried the method and its clunky. Either
use soft clay or roll out slabs and slump them into a form if you want
plates.
Thank you.
Tony Ferguson
315 N. Lake Ave. Apt. 401
Duluth, MN 55806
USA
218.727.6339
Stoneware, Porcelain, Raku
http://www.AquariusArtGallery.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marsh Pottery"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 4:53 AM
Subject: Re: making plates
> I've been following the 'Plates' discussion with interest.
> My wrists (especially the left one) are in terrible shape from centering
> stiff clay for 35+ yrs. I recently bought a slab roller to help keep the
> damage from worsening.
> Question: Is there an optimal way to make Cone 6 porcelain plates
using
> circles cut from the slab roller? One that will not require much wrist
> pressure? How thick should the clay be, please?
> Thanks in advance for any help you care to offer.
> Marsha
> Marsh Pottery Studio
> http://www.marshpottery.com
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
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Marjorie on tue 8 jan 02
A couple/few suggestions: Try some slump molds made from styrofoam -
Frith's plaster book has directions - old cm article shows Leyman (?) using
same for porcelain plates. Slump molds seem to work better for keeping the
pieces from warping. A thrown coil foot is also possible.
I suggest that you develop a plate/form that allows you to alter the edge.
Fools the eye if the piece warps slightly.
There is a new book by Triplett (Lark book) that is called Handbuilt
Tableware that may have some useful directions and other methods for slab
plates.
Possibly a low tech version of jiggering using your thrown bisque forms.
I am hoping to able to throw again in a few weeks after ramming a wide blade
putty knife into palm of left hand and then after stitches were out, I
shifted pressure and blew the tendons in the thumb area - hurts/pain - Just
do not realize how much we use that area when working until we cannot.
MarjB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marsh Pottery"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 7:53 AM
Subject: Re: making plates
> I've been following the 'Plates' discussion with interest.
> My wrists (especially the left one) are in terrible shape from centering
> stiff clay for 35+ yrs. I recently bought a slab roller to help keep the
> damage from worsening.
> Question: Is there an optimal way to make Cone 6 porcelain plates
using
> circles cut from the slab roller? One that will not require much wrist
> pressure? How thick should the clay be, please?
> Thanks in advance for any help you care to offer.
> Marsha
> Marsh Pottery Studio
> http://www.marshpottery.com
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Dannon Rhudy on tue 8 jan 02
At 09:25 PM 1/7/02 EST, you wrote:
>Is there a simply way to make plates with out a mold or a wheel?
Depends what you mean by "without a mold". One does not have to
have a plaster mold, or a slip-casting mold to make plates.
Go hunting for shapes that you find attractive, in any material.
Use that shape for your "mold", either as a slump or hump mold.
Hump molds seem easier to me (you can attach any required foot
at the same time you make your plate), but either works. You
only need a good release agent to prevent the clay sticking to
the form. You can use paper, or a spray release such as cooking
spray or WD-40. Experiment, you'll find lots of good ideas
once you start thinking in that way. And, look back through
the ceramics magazines - there'll be lots of good suggestions.
regards
Dannon Rhudy
Marsh Pottery on tue 8 jan 02
Thank you Tony, for the good suggestion. I'm already slumping shallow
bowls and small trays.. never thought to use that method for plates too.
I need to explore more uses for the slab roller. All these years I've been
completely wheel-oriented.
Marsh
Tony Wrote:
Subject: Re: making plates
Why don't you just slump them--I've tried the method and its clunky. Either
use soft clay or roll out slabs and slump them into a form if you want
plates.
potterybydai on tue 8 jan 02
Question: Is there an optimal way to make Cone 6 porcelain >plates using
circles cut from the slab roller?
Marsha - I have made plates from 1/4" - 5/16" slabs, using a hump mold. Lay
the slab over the mold of your choice (rims, no rims, shallow well,deep
well, etc.), center it on your wheel, still on the mold; add a coil for a
footring(score and slip), firmly attach the coil, then "throw" the footring,
trimming it to the desired height, and finishing it with a nice rounded
profile. An added note: if you take your damp sponge and compress the clay
on the mold, while on the turning wheel, it will help the plate to not warp.
Cut off the rim at the edge of the mold, smooth the available edge (bottom
side of rim); when plate is leatherhard, remove from mold and trim the upper
side of the rim (I use a Sur-form, sort of a cheese-grater carpentry
tool/rasp), then sponge to remove tool marks. Dry between two pieces of
gyproc. The only disadvantage with this method is that you get more warpage
than with wheel-thrown plates.
Good luck with it!
Dai in Kelowna, BC
potterybydai@shaw.ca
"Never put off until tomorrow that which can be avoided altogether."
attributed to Ann Landers
Lee Love on wed 9 jan 02
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Love"
> The snakes I used were a little under an inch in circumference.
This should read, "were a little under an inch in diameter."
Sorry!
--
Lee Love
Mashiko JAPAN Ikiru@kami.com
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Steve Mills on wed 9 jan 02
Marsha,
A technique I used when I was laid up and couldn't throw, was to pin a
piece of canvas on to the four legs of an upside down stool, lay the
clay in it until stiff, then turn over and lute three small feet onto
the underside. I found this a very enjoyable technique; as once the
shape was in the canvas it assumed a natural curve, which I could help
with a small rubber kidney. I could then decorate it with slips etc.
Steve
Bath
UK
message , Marsh Pottery writes
> I've been following the 'Plates' discussion with interest.
>My wrists (especially the left one) are in terrible shape from centering
>stiff clay for 35+ yrs. I recently bought a slab roller to help keep the
>damage from worsening.
> Question: Is there an optimal way to make Cone 6 porcelain plates usi=
>ng
>circles cut from the slab roller? One that will not require much wrist
>pressure? How thick should the clay be, please?
>Thanks in advance for any help you care to offer.
>Marsha
>Marsh Pottery Studio
>http://www.marshpottery.com
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
Rikki Gill on wed 9 jan 02
I save my bisque fired, cracked plates to use as molds for plates I roll
out. I then sponge the clay lightly by hand, no need to put them on the
wheel, and get a smaller lunch plate. My customers buy them as easily as the
ones I hand throw into jigger bats, and for the same price. Rikki Gill
rikigil@cwnet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Mills"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 3:49 AM
Subject: Re: making plates
> Marsha,
>
> A technique I used when I was laid up and couldn't throw, was to pin a
> piece of canvas on to the four legs of an upside down stool, lay the
> clay in it until stiff, then turn over and lute three small feet onto
> the underside. I found this a very enjoyable technique; as once the
> shape was in the canvas it assumed a natural curve, which I could help
> with a small rubber kidney. I could then decorate it with slips etc.
>
> Steve
> Bath
> UK
>
>
> message , Marsh Pottery writes
> > I've been following the 'Plates' discussion with interest.
> >My wrists (especially the left one) are in terrible shape from centering
> >stiff clay for 35+ yrs. I recently bought a slab roller to help keep the
> >damage from worsening.
> > Question: Is there an optimal way to make Cone 6 porcelain plates
usi=
> >ng
> >circles cut from the slab roller? One that will not require much wrist
> >pressure? How thick should the clay be, please?
> >Thanks in advance for any help you care to offer.
> >Marsha
> >Marsh Pottery Studio
> >http://www.marshpottery.com
>
> --
> Steve Mills
> Bath
> UK
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Dwiggins, Sandra (NCI) on thu 10 jan 02
To Lee Love:
You wrote about this method when I asked the list two years ago about making
square plates. I found this to be the best method for keeping the rims from
warping, while giving each plate a sense of individuality. I made a
commissioned dinnerware set with this method, of triangular and square
plates. It was great, and as long as I kept the snakes the same thickness,
the plates all came out with narry a warp.
Thanks for sharing this method, Lee
Sandy
Lee Love on thu 10 jan 02
I didn't see this make it to the list the first time I sent it so I am sending
it again. Sorry if you see it twice:
I posted this information back in Feb. 2000 from my experiences
here in Mashiko. Round plates can be as easily made as square ones (we made
square, oval, rectangular and round cornered square plates with this method.)
Just make the slab template in the shape you desire, even irregular shapes.
Using the bag of cornstarch and paper give the sides a nice curve. As someone
on ClayArt told me in private mail after using this method, the clay coils
shrink with the plate and this reduces warping. If you have any questions,
please ask and I will do my best to explain. No need to wait for the book.
;^) The two posts follow below:
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 11:13:46 EST
Reply-To: Ceramic Arts Discussion List
From: Lee Love
Subject: Re: square plates
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
At the first pottery I working in, here in Mashiko (I worked there for two
and a half months), the most interesting thing I learned was what they
taught all the new employees in the beginning: making plates, sushi
platters and pickle dishes just using a cutout, some newspaper and extruded
clay coils (hebi nendo = clay snake.)
Most of the templates were cut out of light plywood and were either squares
or rectangles or rounded cornered squares or rectangles, but you could
actually use any shape and cut them out of card board. The clay is
smoothed with a metal scraper on both sides. you then lay it on 3 sheets
of paper on a board,the paper is a little bigger than the slab you use (we
cut the slabs from a block of clay, using a cutting wire and cutting slats).
Lay the template down and cut the shape you want. Remove the excess
clay. Then, take come clay snake and put it under the edge of the clay
shape, so that half of the snake is covered by the edge of the slab. On
square or rectangular shapes, you lay snakes at parallel ends, and then you
lay the two other sides, with the ends crossing the first snakes. The
snakes should be under two sheets of paper, and on top of the bottom sheet.
Next, take a cotton bag filled with cornstarch (tie the end with a rubber
band to hold the starch in) and smooth the slap from the middle to the
edge. To get a nice smooth surface on the wall of the outside of the
plate, lift the two pieces of paper and roll the cornstarch bag into the
edge, toward the clay snake. When you have all the edges the way you want
them, slide the form off of the board with the paper and snakes intact and
leave it out to dry. When it is dry, you can smooth the edges with a
shammie.
Where I work now, I am developing a new respect for molded work.
I work next to the retired Forman who makes most of the molded bottles,
jars, bowls, etc. Right now, he is making little calligraphy water
droppers. I think he does most of the production of these molded forms
and does the finishing, but the Sensei does the enamel work on them. I
want to learn the mold work so my wife can make her own work and do he
decoration on them. The slab work would also be nice flat surfaces for
her to put her imagery on.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 20:40:03 EST
Reply-To: Ceramic Arts Discussion List
From: Lee Love
Subject: Re: square plates
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Hi Curtis (I'll send a copy to ClayArt because I've received other questions
from there),
A quick note for now. (I'm moving the big stuff to our new
house/studio today. And English potter from Kasama is coming over to help
with his big van.)
You can make the snakes follow the exact shape of the slab, (I
typoed slap for slab before) but it isn't necessary. For some reason,
all the sides are the same, even if the parallel side snakes overlap the
first ones. The snakes go under two of the papers, but over one paper.
You need two papers for strength under the slab because otherwise they get
wet and fall apart. The snakes I used were a little under an inch in
circumference.
You pat with the cornstarch bag, otherwise, you smudge the clay.
The cloth bag gives the plate a nice texture.
You lift the paper at the edge of the slab to give the side a nice
curve and so that you don't imprint the snake on the outside edge. If
you don't lift the paper toward the bag when you get to the edge, you with
have a concaved indentation on the outside of the edge of the wall.
The paper under the snakes is so that you can move the snakes and
the slab together, after you are finished shaping. The snakes remain with
the plate until it is hard enough to hold its shape. At that time, you
smooth the edges with a shammie.
Hope this clarifies my post. Please write with more questions if
it didn't. :^) My wife is going to clobber me if I don't get off of my
"Toy" and start packing. ;^)
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan Ikiru@Kami.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
David Berg on thu 4 jan 07
FYI
Good news for those who have been asking how to make plates!
In the January/February 2007 Clay times is a Teaching Techniques
article by Bill van Gilder entitled: "Making Plates"
David
David Berg
dberg2@comcast.net
http://bergstoneware.com/
Dale Neese on sat 10 feb 07
Doncha really hate it when the rims on your plate fold up like closing
pedals on a flower? In my experience careful drying is the key. Almost
always when the plates are dry the rims will return to the original thrown
shape. However if the angle is too flat when finally thrown the rims will
slump in the high fire.
Throw the clay out compressing the center out to the ring of clay left for
the rim. Pull the rim up and out to the desired width. Then with a rib press
the rim down just before horizontal. Compress the outer edge to thicken
avoiding a thin rim. I use the curvature of the rib on the inside of the
rim, compressing underneath the rim at the base of the wheel head to
strengthen the shallow rise from the flat surface of the plate to the rim.
Most of us get the throwing part right. Then comes the drying.
Once the freshly thrown plates stiffen, cover with plastic. Let them slowly
dry until the plates pop loose from the bat. Using another bat on top ( I
use a 14" plasti-bat) of the plate flip the plate over and fix it to the
wheel head. Trim, measure the foot and use the same foot width for all the
plates. Place a couple sheets of newspaper on top of the trimmed foot. Place
clean bat on top and flip the plate back over never touching he plate.
Leaving the plate on the newspaper and bat, place the plate back under
plastic for the night. Next morning you can easily lift the plates placing
them on a flat sheet of drywall. The drywall ads in the absorption of
moisture from the bottom of the plate. Cover them all with an old cotton
sheet. Keep the plates covered for several days. As they dry you may see the
rims turn up some but when they are completely dry they will return to the
original thrown shape.
In the bisque fire I stack three plates together. In between the plates, at
4 equal places at the start of the inside rim I place a cut 2 inch square
piece of fiber blanket. The foot of the second plate rests on the fiber
squares and duplicate the same for the next plate on top. Have all your
little squares of fiber line up over the one underneath. I've never had
plates to crack using this method, unless your shelves are warped from three
posting. Then I would start with the fiber under the first plate on the
shelf.
Dale Tex
"across the alley from the Alamo"
San Antonio, Texas USA
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