Richard Jeffery on sat 19 jan 02
...Newcastle. not much coal there, or anywhere, now....
Yes Ivor, Janet is having a bad year. I have the emergency schnapps on 24
hour standby - just need a spare helicopter to cut down the 7 hour drive
each way to deliver.
I have a lot of sympathy for gallery owners, or at least the ones that take
it seriously. Fortunately, the ones that don't usually fail quicker than
the artists they represent. Short term pain, and reading insurance small
print usually ensues. My own estimations of cost of sales when I have sold
direct is around the 30% - 40% mark.
I do think it is different when it's a Sale or Return basis, as many
galleries are. The real problem for me is when a gallery steps out of line.
I believe retail prices should be the same to the end user wherever and
however I sell - either directly or through a gallery. That's OK while
galleries keep within a band of commission rates - typically 30% - 45%. I
can accept the difference in return to me.
This week I have been approached by a high profile gallery in Southampton,
which operates at 75%.... They have some strange marketing ideas at times -
like buy 3 pieces and get the cheapest for free. Gallery was set up by an
entrepreneur (who started the biggest DIY chain in UK - B&Q) - and it shows.
Good reputation, listed by Craft Council, etc - but I have no idea whether
things actually sell or not.
I would be crazy to turn the opportunity down, but to stick to my pricing
principles would mean accepting a daft price for my work. Result is that I
will give them work, but will have to increase my prices to get anything
like a reasonable return. Now, I sort of expect that for London, but this
isn't London. They reckon they need the mark up to they can pursue their 3
for the price of 2 type campaigns...
I guess I'll try it and find out. If they were buying, I wouldn't care so
much. it possibly means skewing the way I price my work across the board -
I wanted to get into more galleries east of here, but may have to end up
adopting 2 or 3 tier pricing, which is what I have always fought against.
Richard Jeffery
Web Design and Photography www.theeleventhweb.co.uk
Bournemouth UK
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of iandol
Sent: 18 January 2002 07:23
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Gallery commision
Dear Janet,
I had a discussion a long time ago with a local silversmith. His work is
exported around the World. Objects and jewellery from his studio is marketed
in New York and Germany.
He put it this way. "I give a wholesale price plus delivery expenses. If a
gallery wants to mark that up by five hundred percent, that's their
business. They sell my stuff like there will be no tomorrow and the repeat
order roll in. they know what the market will accept how it will respond.
they market me, they advertise, they promote. Yes, heavy expenses but we all
benefit, producer, seller and client" He employs three artisans to keep up
with the demand and contracts out his gem cutting. David did work for him
for a while
Great stuff this exporting. I was told this week that my best customers ar
the Japanese. Now that is selling coals to.... where was that place?
Cheer up Lass and try to have a better year.
Regards,
Ivor .
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Maid O'Mud on sat 19 jan 02
Personally, I would *never* deal with a Gallery that takes 75%. That makes
the marketing worth more than the product! Ridiculous!
Have you tried to sell to them (at maybe 65% of your retail price, hence
netting you your usually 30-40% markdown) and let them mark it up however
they want? That way, your concious is clear. Once you've sold a product,
you have no control over the price it is re-sold at. Keep your prices where
they are - do NOT accept less.
If they won't purchase (only consign) can you not look elsewhere? Sometimes
that which is offered as a huge opportunity is - but not for the artist :-(
Please let us know how this turns out. This whole business of consignment
over 50% really rattles my chain. Hell, over 40% rattles my chain!!!
sam - who finally finished the studio addition, and is awaitng the
electrician so I can fire again.....
> I have a lot of sympathy for gallery owners, or at least the ones that
take
> it seriously. Fortunately, the ones that don't usually fail quicker than
> the artists they represent. Short term pain, and reading insurance small
> print usually ensues. My own estimations of cost of sales when I have
sold
> direct is around the 30% - 40% mark.
>
> I do think it is different when it's a Sale or Return basis, as many
> galleries are. The real problem for me is when a gallery steps out of
line.
> I believe retail prices should be the same to the end user wherever and
> however I sell - either directly or through a gallery. That's OK while
> galleries keep within a band of commission rates - typically 30% - 45%. I
> can accept the difference in return to me.
>
> This week I have been approached by a high profile gallery in Southampton,
> which operates at 75%.... They have some strange marketing ideas at
times -
> like buy 3 pieces and get the cheapest for free. Gallery was set up by an
> entrepreneur (who started the biggest DIY chain in UK - B&Q) - and it
shows.
> Good reputation, listed by Craft Council, etc - but I have no idea whether
> things actually sell or not.
>
> I would be crazy to turn the opportunity down, but to stick to my pricing
> principles would mean accepting a daft price for my work. Result is that
I
> will give them work, but will have to increase my prices to get anything
> like a reasonable return. Now, I sort of expect that for London, but this
> isn't London. They reckon they need the mark up to they can pursue their
3
> for the price of 2 type campaigns...
Ben Morrison on sat 9 jun 12
That's a good point. I'm an accountant, and have helped my family=3D
All,=3D0A=3D0AThat's a good point. I'm an accountant, and have helped my fa=
mily=3D
run businesses for many years. The one thing they all had on their side wa=
=3D
s sales skills, and a fair marketing campaign. They all also had the added =
=3D
benefit of a retail establishment. Professional store fronts are just not a=
=3D
n option for the vast majority of us potters. It's not a practical use of o=
=3D
ur money in most cases. =3D0A=3D0AI have met some potters that had a good e=
noug=3D
h following from doing many of the things that Mitch mentioned that they co=
=3D
uld have sales at their home. Many in my area band together to put a sort o=
=3D
f home studio tour together with moderate success. It was very interesting =
=3D
to see the potter's studios along with their wares. It was a bonus over the=
=3D
street show, or gallery exhibition.=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A-Ben=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A_____=
____________=3D
_______________=3D0A From: Nina Jones =3D0ATo: Cla=
yart=3D
@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG =3D0ASent: Friday, June 8, 2012 7:21 PM=3D0ASubject: Fw: =
gall=3D
ery commission=3D0A =3D0A----- Forwarded Mes=3D0ASure Mitch meant to send t=
his to=3D
the group.=3D0ANina=3D0A=3D0A----- Forwarded Message -----=3D0AFrom: mitch=
lyons <=3D
clayprint@yahoo.com>=3D0ATo: Nina Jones =3D0ASent=
: Fr=3D
iday, June 8, 2012 2:27 PM=3D0ASubject: Re: gallery commission=3D0A=3D0A=3D=
0AGaller=3D
ies do not work for everyone. It certainly works for the BLUE CHIP artists =
=3D
who can sell their work for more money than you and I make in a year. Witho=
=3D
ut their gallery representation they would be just another artists who stru=
=3D
ggles to make ends meet. It would never bother me to "give" 50% to a galler=
=3D
y, who handles my work, if they sold enough to make it worth while. Most of=
=3D
the galleries that carry my work, I feel, TAKE 50%,=3DA0 but=3DA0do not EA=
RN t=3D
heir commission because they do not=3DA0make any strong effort to promote m=
y =3D
career. If I were an artists, represented in a gallery, that sold LOTS of w=
=3D
ork, I think they would treat me differently.=3D0A=3DA0=3D0AThe argument is=
"rais=3D
e your prices to reflect more of a retail price point, rather than a wholes=
=3D
ale number". That way you get what you want for it. But then the gallery wo=
=3D
uld have to double the price, and that may take it to an unrealistic amount=
=3D
.=3D0A=3DA0=3D0AIn today's world of economics, I feel, to survive=3DA0I hav=
e to div=3D
ersify and augment=3DA0my income with: Gallery representation, exhibitions,=
s=3D
treet shows, commissions, teach workshops, sell on ebay,=3DA0 open studios,=
m=3D
ake/sell DVD,s, etc, etc, etc.=3D0AMitch Lyons=3D0Awww.mitchlyons.com
rikigil@SBCGLOBAL.NET on sun 10 jun 12
Hi Ben and All,
I occasionally have an open studio at my home studio. Sometimes it is just
great,
sometimes so so. I show with another group of potters twice a year, and
most
Saturdays, inside our building. That's my best show. I keep a large list o=
f
my email
customers, and send that out when it seems a good time to do so. I
encourage
people on the list to call me when they need a gift, or want me to make a
set of
dinnerware. We arrange an appointment for a visit to the home studio, if
that's
what they want. I like people in general, and enjoy these times when they
visit.
I think customers of ceramics are really very reliable. They see us as har=
d
workers,
and respect that, and in return we need to respect them.
Rikki Gill
rikigil@sbcglobal.net
www.rikkigillceramics.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Morrison
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 7:23 PM
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: gallery commission
That's a good point. I'm an accountant, and have helped my family
All,
That's a good point. I'm an accountant, and have helped my family run
businesses for many years. The one thing they all had on their side was
sales skills, and a fair marketing campaign. They all also had the added
benefit of a retail establishment. Professional store fronts are just not a=
n
option for the vast majority of us potters. It's not a practical use of our
money in most cases.
I have met some potters that had a good enough following from doing many of
the things that Mitch mentioned that they could have sales at their home.
Many in my area band together to put a sort of home studio tour together
with moderate success. It was very interesting to see the potter's studios
along with their wares. It was a bonus over the street show, or gallery
exhibition.
-Ben
________________________________
From: Nina Jones
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Sent: Friday, June 8, 2012 7:21 PM
Subject: Fw: gallery commission
----- Forwarded Mes
Sure Mitch meant to send this to the group.
Nina
----- Forwarded Message -----
From: mitch lyons
To: Nina Jones
Sent: Friday, June 8, 2012 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: gallery commission
Galleries do not work for everyone. It certainly works for the BLUE CHIP
artists who can sell their work for more money than you and I make in a
year. Without their gallery representation they would be just another
artists who struggles to make ends meet. It would never bother me to "give"
50% to a gallery, who handles my work, if they sold enough to make it worth
while. Most of the galleries that carry my work, I feel, TAKE 50%, but do
not EARN their commission because they do not make any strong effort to
promote my career. If I were an artists, represented in a gallery, that sol=
d
LOTS of work, I think they would treat me differently.
The argument is "raise your prices to reflect more of a retail price point,
rather than a wholesale number". That way you get what you want for it. But
then the gallery would have to double the price, and that may take it to an
unrealistic amount.
In today's world of economics, I feel, to survive I have to diversify and
augment my income with: Gallery representation, exhibitions, street shows,
commissions, teach workshops, sell on ebay, open studios, make/sell DVD,s,
etc, etc, etc.
Mitch Lyons
www.mitchlyons.com
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