MOLINA, RAFAEL on sat 19 jan 02
Carolsan:
>Colleges compete vigorously to attract those 6.4 million older college
students, who are in the >vanguard of more than 70 million adults their age
who will take some sort of job-related or >personal development class,
seminar or workshop in the coming year.
Some colleges may recruit others have to turn some away because the
enrollment is so great that the physical plant cannot serve it. It depends
on the location. That is whether they are out in rural areas or in a suburb
or in an urban setting.
There is a HUGE difference between "job-related or personal development
class,
seminar or workshop" and a college credit class towards an Associate of
Bachelors degree.
I challenge you or anyone else on the the List to cite one example where the
taxpayer's of a county voted to buy land, build structures and offer only
continuing education/community service classes. It doesn't happen.
Those kinds of classes exist and have spaces to meet solely because the
taxpayers of a county voted to create and fund college districts to offer
college credit at a lower cost to the price of a university education.
I believe in CE and have taken a variety of of courses under the auspices of
their department. This semester I will be taking private guitar lessons
through a program (I've played the instrument for 16 years, but I want to
improve my sight reading).
In the summer, in addition to teaching adults, I teach ceramics in the CE
College 4 Kids program. There is a 3 week June session and a 3 week July
session. I have 85 kids in four different classes each session.
It's a very popular class and a good time is had by all including the
parents when they come to Parent's Day on the last day of each session. You
should see the parents at their turn on the wheel.
I have a great relationship with the staff and Dean of CE. We are currently
planning for this summers activities.
>One could reasonably argue that the welfare of many community colleges is
enhanced with a state >subsidized continuing education program.
I'm not sure how they do it in your state, but the state of Texas only
reimburses college districts for college credit classes. Even if your state
reimburses your local district for CE classes the $ are MUCH lower than what
the district receives for college credit.
>With this additional funding a greater number of instructors remain
employed in often under->utilized facilities,
This is a complete FALLACY. Rarely, if ever, does the course load of a
full-time tenure track professor include CE classes as a part of the load.
Here's the real truth. When a CE class is offered concurrently with a
credit class the tuition and fees paid by a CE student goes directly into
CE's coffers not the academic budget. Furthermore, the teacher of record
gets the same pay whether there is 15 credit students and 5 CE students or
15 credit and no CE. CE does not pay the instructor when a class is offered
concurrently with a credit class.
Define under-utilized. As I've stated before, the faculty and
administration, including CE, have a responsibility to the District, Board
of Trustees, and taxpayers to be moderate and effecient not wasteful and
inefficient.
You must be to the left of me. I'm a Democrat, but I do believe that
government should be held accountable for spending. And, as a government
employee I do my best to keep the taxpayers trust.
Chao,
Rafael
-----Original Message-----
From: C. Burkhart [mailto:sottovoce1@HOTMAIL.COM]
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2002 1:49 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: College bashing - the real truth
This past fall, 42 percent of the students in the nation's colleges and
universities were 25 or older, according to the Education Department. That's
up from 28 percent in 1980, before so many working women began to enroll.
Colleges compete vigorously to attract those 6.4 million older college
students, who are in the vanguard of more than 70 million adults their age
who will take some sort of job-related or personal development class,
seminar or workshop in the coming year.
One could reasonably argue that the welfare of many community colleges is
enhanced with a state subsidized continuing education program. With this
additional funding a greater number of instructors remain employed in often
under-utilized facilities, not to mention the benefit to the surrounding
community. However, it should be the obligation of the facility to impose
fees and regulations to benefit all parties. The operative word is
c-o-m-m-u-n-i-t-y. So those who rebel against the older students in 'your'
facility, get over yourselves or move out of the way.
Carolsan
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C.Burkhart on sat 19 jan 02
Molina,
It is not my intent to engage in a name-calling agenda, because I concur
with many of the basic concepts you've stated loud and clear to all who can
read, as you said. That being said, it is difficult to reply to your
verbose declaration because it was not my intention to refer to Continuing
Education as in CEU's, but as adults continuing their education for credit
or audit, whether privately funded, state assisted, etc. The point I was
making is that education is big business. It is the largest national
corporation, employing the most people.
However, it was MY opinion that these large numbers of non-traditional
students (age 25 and above) enhance the education of the traditional
learners. Although, you site your institution as being overly crowded, that
is not true in each institution, otherwise why would they need compete for
registrants? These additional 40% of adult students provide employment for
more instructors, plant operators, security guards, cafeteria workers,
office workers, etc., and allow businesses to sell more educational product
to generally keep the economy in a healthier situation.
> There is a HUGE difference between "job-related or personal development
> class, seminar or workshop" and a college credit class towards an
> Associate of Bachelors degree.
Yet one can obtain all of the above, can't they?
As you are aware, currently specialized programs and services exist for a
multitude of student populations - resident students, international
students, minority students, so there's no logical reason why
non-traditional students can't be provided flexibility also. I think it
time educators and organizations eliminate the private agendas that
interfere with the adult learning community.
You are to be commended on saving the taxpayer money, but, hopefully, not at
the expense of your adult students.
Oh, my politics are my own.
Carolsan
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