MOLINA, RAFAEL on tue 22 jan 02
real truth
Carolsan:
Well, why didn't you say college credit or audit non-traditional students
instead of "continuing education" as you wrote in your initial post. As far
as non-traditional students go we share common cause.
One of my strengths as an instructor is my experience with a diverse student
population including non-traditional students. On the credit and audit side
I've taught students from age 18 to 78. My students in CE programs range
from as young as 8 and into their 70's. My current class population covers
the spectrum of students from young adults right out of high school to more
mature adults returning to higher education or attending college for the
first time.
I believe serving the non-traditional student is one of the missions of the
community college. It's one reason, along with the orientatation on
TEACHING, that I feel like I've found my niche in the community college
environment.
On a personal level, the community college is the reason I was able to pull
myself up by my bootstraps out of poverty and into the middle class. I
graduated from high school at seventeen and was not emotionally mature,
academically prepared and financially able to move across state or country
to attend university. I joined the local Lather's Union and worked full
time as an apprentice for a commercial drywall company and took one or two
college courses at night. After two years, I quit that job and went to
school full time while working at a succesion of part-time jobs. It still
took me two years to complete my Associate's and transfer to university for
three more years to finish my undergraduate degree.
>It is the largest national corporation, employing the most people.
This is a mis-characterization. It's not national it's individual county
districts or state-wide systems. Community college districts are created
and funded by taxpayer's of a county and, yes, they do recieve some funding
from the state. Most campuses are located in a given county, but some
satellite campuses may be in a neighboring county. They offer Associate
degrees and CE courses. State university systems have locations throughout
the state and offer four-year Bachelors degrees as well as Graduate
programs. For instance, the University of Texas system and Texas A&M system
in our great state or the Louisiana State system (i.e. LSU Baton Rouge, LSU
Shreveport). Of course, there are other state supported universities as
well as private universities which are funded largely through tuiton, fees,
endowments and the like.
I also wouldn't describe the college districts or state-wide systems as a
corporation. They are independant of each other. They do not march
lock-step with one another as a monolithic whole.
>However, it was MY opinion that these large numbers of non-traditional
students (age 25 and above) enhance the education of the >traditional
learners.
In what way?
Is it possible that it might be reciprocal. Might traditional college age
students enhance the education of non-traditional learners?
>Although, you site your institution as being overly crowded
I never wrote of inferred that. On the contrary, in spite of our campus
being designed for 4500 students last semster we had over 8000. One way we
accomodate this large number was through the creativity of our
administration who had the wisdom to schedule classes beginning at 7:00 am
through 10:00 pm Monday -Friday and all day Saturday.
Plans are already being made for extending a wing of the campus to the East
and the District recently purchased approximately 25 acres adjacent to our
property for further expansion.
>As you are aware, currently specialized programs and services exist for a
multitude of student populations - resident students, >international
students, minority students, so there's no logical reason why
non-traditional students can't be provided flexibility also
There already is. It's called the community college system. College credit
courses towards and Associate or Bacccalaureate degree at tuition and fees
much lower than at university are available. Courses offered on campus at
convenient hours including evening and weekends. Arranged class times.
Distance learning through internet and other media. Tutoring labs. Child
care. College credit for life experience, military training, etc,...(I am
not a proponent of this)
What else do you have in mind? Between this idea of college credit for life
experience and other previous training as well as grade inflation don't you
think that at some point degrees are being diminished in value?
>I think it time educators and organizations eliminate the private agendas
that interfere with the adult learning community.
I don't get this. What agendas are you talking about? I think colleges
place a premium on enrollments and contact hours. Why would they
"interfere" with any segment of the student population?
Chao,
Rafael Enrique
Molina,
It is not my intent to engage in a name-calling agenda, because I concur
with many of the basic concepts you've stated loud and clear to all who can
read, as you said. That being said, it is difficult to reply to your
verbose declaration because it was not my intention to refer to Continuing
Education as in CEU's, but as adults continuing their education for credit
or audit, whether privately funded, state assisted, etc. The point I was
making is that education is big business. It is the largest national
corporation, employing the most people.
However, it was MY opinion that these large numbers of non-traditional
students (age 25 and above) enhance the education of the traditional
learners. Although, you site your institution as being overly crowded, that
is not true in each institution, otherwise why would they need compete for
registrants? These additional 40% of adult students provide employment for
more instructors, plant operators, security guards, cafeteria workers,
office workers, etc., and allow businesses to sell more educational product
to generally keep the economy in a healthier situation.
> There is a HUGE difference between "job-related or personal development
> class, seminar or workshop" and a college credit class towards an
> Associate of Bachelors degree.
Yet one can obtain all of the above, can't they?
As you are aware, currently specialized programs and services exist for a
multitude of student populations - resident students, international
students, minority students, so there's no logical reason why
non-traditional students can't be provided flexibility also. I think it
time educators and organizations eliminate the private agendas that
interfere with the adult learning community.
You are to be commended on saving the taxpayer money, but, hopefully, not at
the expense of your adult students.
Oh, my politics are my own.
Carolsan
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