primalmommy@IVILLAGE.COM on wed 27 feb 02
I am following the posts about dangerous mixers/mills, and there seem to be two camps: those who find the manufacturer irresponsible, and those who think any moron who is careless deserves what he/she gets. I just wanted to point out that one man's "moron" is another man's beginner.
I was sent to mix clay for the first time in a college class, without supervision; the mixer was a big metal bathtub looking thing, the lid broken off, and the automatic shut off device clamped in the ON position with a jumper cable clamp. If there was a shutoff bar I wouldn't know what it was or where to find it. I was told what to dump in and that the blades were sharp, but there were scrapers lying on the rim of the thing and I figured out how to scrape the clay off the sides as the augur was turning. duh.
I did wonder why nobody suggested/offered a mask... but managed to keep all my fingers. I did bleed into the clay a bit while cleaning those razor sharp (clay-ground) edges, and realized how stupid I had been with the scraper before.
I have done stupid things with about every power tool in the books until someone straightened me out. I remember helping w/ stoking in Lowell's firing at ACC and having someone say, "uh, you might want to tie your hair back"... I am always grateful for folks like that who have the courage to tell me I'm being stupid.
I'm not saying it's always the fault of the manufacturer... just that if I were making a machine, I'd make it idiot proof. I'd assume that long after the ground is snapped off the plug, the safety devices disabled, and the instructions lost, some potter like me will find it at a garage sale and use it anyway...
just a thought. Yours, Kelly from Ohio (still in Florida, where it's going to be 20 tonight...)
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ASHPOTS@AOL.COM on thu 28 feb 02
I have a Walker and im not using now because my Venco is doing what i need...
I have a neighbor that was killled by his chain saw recently. We was cutting
a branch over his head,,, at least thats what i was told..it was instant
I use my chain saw a lot now for feeding my wood stove to make ash for my
glaze,, but i try to be carefull
In the years in the Fire Dept,,, my station was in the industrial section of
Hialeah i saw a few deaths and some accidents from people not paying
attention to what they where doing.
So ,,, if you are doing something with tools pay attention and also wear eye
protection and i like to where my heavy shoes when i load and unload my kiln
Capt Mark
Earl Brunner on thu 28 feb 02
My position here would be then that the institution is/would or should be liable, and possibly the instructor, for the cavalier way in which they treat or use dangerous machinery. It is just as much the institutions responsibility to see that safe practices are used with their equipment as the manufacturer of the tool. Many of the stories or examples that have been given about "dangerous" equipment have more to do with examples of safety systems being bypassed and poor working situations than about the tool
itself.
primalmommy@IVILLAGE.COM wrote:
> I am following the posts about dangerous mixers/mills, and there seem to be two camps: those who find the manufacturer irresponsible, and those who think any moron who is careless deserves what he/she gets. I just wanted to point out that one man's "moron" is another man's beginner.
>
> I was sent to mix clay for the first time in a college class, without supervision; the mixer was a big metal bathtub looking thing, the lid broken off, and the automatic shut off device clamped in the ON position with a jumper cable clamp. If there was a shutoff bar I wouldn't know what it was or where to find it. I was told what to dump in and that the blades were sharp, but there were scrapers lying on the rim of the thing and I figured out how to scrape the clay off the sides as the augur was turning. duh.
>
> I did wonder why nobody suggested/offered a mask... but managed to keep all my fingers. I did bleed into the clay a bit while cleaning those razor sharp (clay-ground) edges, and realized how stupid I had been with the scraper before.
>
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
mailto:bruec@anv.net
Ditmar on thu 28 feb 02
As soon as you make something idiot proof, God makes a better idiot.
More seriously though...
Part of learning and knowing equipment is from being taught by those =
familiar with procedures and safety using that equipment. Unfortunately =
some of those individuals aren't any more capable than beginners. How do =
you know ?=20
Another part is common sense, which is a misnomer. It should be called =
rare sense.
One way to develop better "common sense" is to visualize or mentally =
walk through the procedure you're about to undertake. Often you'll come =
across problems or things you need to do differently. Practice it until =
it becomes second nature...common sense.
In my opinion one of the first things students, or indeed anyone, should =
learn is to be empowered enough to say NO. If you're told to mix up this =
or do that with equipment that's been jury-rigged or has safety =
interlocks disabled .......just say NO.
A lot of it has to do with being ultimately responsible for our own =
actions. MANY accidents wouldn't happen if we don't tempt fate.=20
If you find an old piece of equipment for a good price but it's not in =
the best shape......well, whose responsibility is it to make sure it can =
be used safely.=20
Then there's stupidity....... which in nature, and the normal course of =
things is punished.
How can the manufacturer of a 12 inch table saw, foresee some jerk using =
it to carve a pot roast........and then sue.
( Ever wonder why now McDonald's drive through cashiers tell you to pull =
ahead "when you can" ?? ..... People were just driving into =
the rear of the front car when they were told, "pull ahead" Duh !! )
OK off my soapbox. But, remember, take responsibility for yourself, and =
learn to say NO when something doesn't sit right. It's your common sense =
kicking in, don't fight it !
Ditmar
Anita Rickenberg on thu 28 feb 02
I've told my firends that if I ever maim myself it will be from either a =
utility knife or hammer. When it comes to power equipment I'm super =
cautious--I've seen what they can do. But when it's a utility knife or =
other hand tools, I figure it won't hurt this one time to cut towards =
myself, etc. I have several scars to prove I'm a rather slow learner =
when it comes to basic hand tool safety.
Anita
Bruce Girrell on fri 1 mar 02
> I've told my firends that if I ever maim myself it will be from
> either a utility knife or hammer. When it comes to power
> equipment I'm super cautious--I've seen what they can do. But
> when it's a utility knife or other hand tools, I figure it won't
> hurt this one time to cut towards myself, etc. I have several
> scars to prove I'm a rather slow learner when it comes to basic
> hand tool safety.
So true. This line of thinking extends into the power tools as well. Fine
Woodworking (a magazine) did a study to see where most woodworking accidents
occurred. The machines that seem the most dangerous - jointers and shapers,
for example - had a surprisingly low accident rate. On the top of the list
was the humble old table saw. They concluded that people _really_ pay
attention when using the nasty machines, but become so accustomed to using
the table saw that they are not as attentive and accidents happen.
Bruce Girrell
Janet Kaiser on fri 1 mar 02
We had a new sport and recreation centre open a couple of years ago.
No one, absolutely NO ONE may use the equipment without first
completing the required course on its safe and appropriate use. Once
you have the bit of paper, you are allowed into an otherwise
unsupervised room...
Whether everyone then sticks to all the health and safety rules to the
letter is quite another matter... Tiredness, lack of concentration,
laziness, stupidity, cussedness, bravado... Well, any of our little
human failings and foibles can spoil the good intentions. But at least
the centre is covered... Legally and morally.
I am in the camp that says all tools and equipment is potentially
lethal, but as long as they are in good working order and the user is
sensible and properly trained, all should be well. Would anyone put
their hand in a pot of boiling water and then blame the potter who
made the pot? You cannot legislate common sense.
Just my two pence worth
Janet Kaiser
The Chapel of Art / Capel Celfyddyd
Home of The International Potters' Path
8 Marine Crescent : Criccieth : GB-Wales
URL: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
postbox@the-coa.org.uk
Millie Carpenter on fri 1 mar 02
You are not the only one like that. I was cutting up paper to recycle
into hand made paper with one of the large rotary cutters. (they are
really a round razor blade on a stick) I had this wonderful idea that
if you could roll back and forth with a slight zig=zag, it would take
less time and I could go to sleep. I ran over my index finger, all the
way to the bone. the only good thing is that if you are actively
bleeding, you do get seen quicker in the ER.
Millie in Md....Getting really excited about NCECA. trying decide what
I want to do and wishing that I could do at least two activities at a
time...
Anita Rickenberg wrote:
>I've told my firends that if I ever maim myself it will be from either a utility knife or hammer. When it comes to power equipment I'm super cautious--I've seen what they can do. But when it's a utility knife or other hand tools, I figure it won't hurt this one time to cut towards myself, etc. I have several scars to prove I'm a rather slow learner when it comes to basic hand tool safety.
>
>Anita
>
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