Tony Ferguson on thu 28 feb 02
Call the fire department. Become friends. Make sure to tell him or her
that the fire is enclosed, you are wearing protective gear, etc, etc, invite
them to see the kiln. It is usually people's misunderstanding of the
process that causes them to say no. I fire in downtown Duluth--not the
mecca NY is, but none the less on concrete near a play ground.
Thank you!
Tony Ferguson
Stoneware, Porcelain, Raku
www.aquariusartgallery.com
Photographic, Web Site, & Marketing Services for Artists
218-727-6339
315 N. Lake Ave
Apt 401
Duluth, MN 55806
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cindy Gatto"
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 7:19 PM
Subject: Doing Raku in NYC.
> Hello All:
> I have a question I am hoping that someone may be able to
help
> me with. We have a shop in Brooklyn, NY and are lucky enough to have a
good
> size backyard. The back yard is all cement. We have asked people who's
> studios we have visited about being allowed to do Raku in NYC and the
answer
> is it is not allowed. When we ask why no one has an answer. So what my
> question is does anyone know if it is legal to do Raku in New York City. I
> cannot believe that there is a law someplace saying that you cannot do
Raku
> firing in NYC.
>
> I also was wondering could we possibly get a permit to do so? Also how or
> where or how should I go about finding out about being allowed to do so,
or
> to get a permit to do so.
>
> Someone suggested the local fire department but I doubt that the local
fire
> department would even know what Raku firing was. Or would they get annoyed
> that we are bothering them with something that they may feel was so
> insubstantial in a city where firefighting could mean life or death at any
> call.
>
> So in trying to make something that is getting very longwinded short. Does
> anybody know anything about doing Raku within the city limits, the laws on
> doing it, the possibility on getting a permit to do it or anything about
it
> at all.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much.
> Sincerely:
> Mark Petrin & Cindy Gatto
> The Mudpit
> 228 Manhattan Ave
> Brooklyn NY 11206
> 718-218-9424
> mudpitnyc@aol.com
> www.mudpitnyc.com
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Terrance Lazaroff on thu 28 feb 02
Cindy;
It will be difficult to get permission to do raku because of the smoke. You
might be able to do the smokeless method. I read about it some years back.
It is a method that is without the flame and smoke.
The next wall facing you will be the size of the propane tank allowed where
your live. The info about this is found by calling the fire department.
You may not be able to have a tank large enough to do what you wish.
I suggest you refrain from explaining your process to the department as
firemen get up tight when the hear about open flames.
I would also ensure your friends next door and behind your house are aware
of what you are doing. They may feel that it is a risk to them. You could
invite them to see the process and to have a Bar-B-Q at the same time.
Good luck and be safe.
Terrance
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cindy Gatto"
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 10:19 PM
Subject: Doing Raku in NYC.
> Hello All:
> I have a question I am hoping that someone may be able to
help
> me with. We have a shop in Brooklyn, NY and are lucky enough to have a
good
> size backyard. The back yard is all cement. We have asked people who's
> studios we have visited about being allowed to do Raku in NYC and the
answer
> is it is not allowed. When we ask why no one has an answer. So what my
> question is does anyone know if it is legal to do Raku in New York City. I
> cannot believe that there is a law someplace saying that you cannot do
Raku
> firing in NYC.
>
> I also was wondering could we possibly get a permit to do so? Also how or
> where or how should I go about finding out about being allowed to do so,
or
> to get a permit to do so.
>
> Someone suggested the local fire department but I doubt that the local
fire
> department would even know what Raku firing was. Or would they get annoyed
> that we are bothering them with something that they may feel was so
> insubstantial in a city where firefighting could mean life or death at any
> call.
>
> So in trying to make something that is getting very longwinded short. Does
> anybody know anything about doing Raku within the city limits, the laws on
> doing it, the possibility on getting a permit to do it or anything about
it
> at all.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much.
> Sincerely:
> Mark Petrin & Cindy Gatto
> The Mudpit
> 228 Manhattan Ave
> Brooklyn NY 11206
> 718-218-9424
> mudpitnyc@aol.com
> www.mudpitnyc.com
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Earl Brunner on thu 28 feb 02
The ordinances that you may have problem with would most likely have to do with
generating smoke and with having an open fire (smoke for sure with most reduction,
and possible fire in the process. Air quality has become a big issue in
metropolitan areas. The reception of federal funds is sometimes contingent on
meeting certain air quality standards. It's not a question of one little fire, but
the bigger picture.
Cindy Gatto wrote:
> Hello All:
> I have a question I am hoping that someone may be able to help
> me with. We have a shop in Brooklyn, NY and are lucky enough to have a good
> size backyard. The back yard is all cement. We have asked people who's
> studios we have visited about being allowed to do Raku in NYC and the answer
> is it is not allowed. When we ask why no one has an answer. So what my
> question is does anyone know if it is legal to do Raku in New York City. I
> cannot believe that there is a law someplace saying that you cannot do Raku
> firing in NYC.
>
> I also was wondering could we possibly get a permit to do so? Also how or
> where or how should I go about finding out about being allowed to do so, or
> to get a permit to do so.
>
> Someone suggested the local fire department but I doubt that the local fire
> department would even know what Raku firing was. Or would they get annoyed
> that we are bothering them with something that they may feel was so
> insubstantial in a city where firefighting could mean life or death at any
> call.
>
> So in trying to make something that is getting very longwinded short. Does
> anybody know anything about doing Raku within the city limits, the laws on
> doing it, the possibility on getting a permit to do it or anything about it
> at all.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much.
> Sincerely:
> Mark Petrin & Cindy Gatto
> The Mudpit
> 228 Manhattan Ave
> Brooklyn NY 11206
> 718-218-9424
> mudpitnyc@aol.com
> www.mudpitnyc.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
mailto:bruec@anv.net
Cindy Gatto on thu 28 feb 02
Hello All:
I have a question I am hoping that someone may be able to help
me with. We have a shop in Brooklyn, NY and are lucky enough to have a good
size backyard. The back yard is all cement. We have asked people who's
studios we have visited about being allowed to do Raku in NYC and the answer
is it is not allowed. When we ask why no one has an answer. So what my
question is does anyone know if it is legal to do Raku in New York City. I
cannot believe that there is a law someplace saying that you cannot do Raku
firing in NYC.
I also was wondering could we possibly get a permit to do so? Also how or
where or how should I go about finding out about being allowed to do so, or
to get a permit to do so.
Someone suggested the local fire department but I doubt that the local fire
department would even know what Raku firing was. Or would they get annoyed
that we are bothering them with something that they may feel was so
insubstantial in a city where firefighting could mean life or death at any
call.
So in trying to make something that is getting very longwinded short. Does
anybody know anything about doing Raku within the city limits, the laws on
doing it, the possibility on getting a permit to do it or anything about it
at all.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much.
Sincerely:
Mark Petrin & Cindy Gatto
The Mudpit
228 Manhattan Ave
Brooklyn NY 11206
718-218-9424
mudpitnyc@aol.com
www.mudpitnyc.com
Dupre Mr Marcy M on fri 1 mar 02
Cindy,
I have no clue as to the regulations in NYC, nor do I have any idea who
might object. At the risk of incurring a lot of righteous wrath, I offer
one of my old working credos from the Army, "It is better to seek
forgiveness than permission."
Reasoning: I know and understand bureaucrats at the most elemental level.
They study regulations. The enforce regulations. They are paid to do this.
If there is any opportunity to say, "No," that will be the answer. It is
too hard to research the regulations to find that one instance where the
answer COULD be, "Yes."
Find a tame fireman and ask him some leading questions about ceramic firing
in the city limits. I'm certain there are other ceramic studios in
Brooklyn. Don't mention raku. Very few outside our little community have
any clue what that is, other than a new dip to go with salsa chips.
Brooklyn has always seemed like a friendly place. Loosen up and have a raku
party for the neigborhood. Make some pots and put on a show. Give some
pots to the kids. Put the folks at ease. That gets the citizens on your
side.
Then, if the "Authorities" get antsy about "open fires withing the city
limits--bad juju," you can apologize profusely and promise not to do it
again.
Or you could ask. My money is on the bureaucrat saying, "No," before the
question is fully asked. Mention "fire" and all sorts of puckering occurs.
Best of luck,
Tig
Get Dirty!
Marcia Selsor on fri 1 mar 02
Dear Cindy,
Raku is probably not allowed because of smoke pollution. The same reason burning
leaves has been banned for a few decades. You could try keeping your smoke at a
minimum and alert the fire department that you are doing this. You should
definitely contact the fire department but not at the emergency number. Just call
the office as listed in the phone book.
I raku in the city (Billings) all the time but I don't make much smoke. Some
people get carried away and really get smokey. If they fire department was called
to the scene due to smoke, you would most likely be fined and charged for the
expense of the false alarm.
Hope this helps.
Marcia in Montana
Cindy Gatto wrote:
> Hello All:
> I have a question I am hoping that someone may be able to help
> me with. We have a shop in Brooklyn, NY and are lucky enough to have a good
> size backyard. The back yard is all cement. We have asked people who's
> studios we have visited about being allowed to do Raku in NYC and the answer
> is it is not allowed. When we ask why no one has an answer. So what my
> question is does anyone know if it is legal to do Raku in New York City. I
> cannot believe that there is a law someplace saying that you cannot do Raku
> firing in NYC.
>
> I also was wondering could we possibly get a permit to do so? Also how or
> where or how should I go about finding out about being allowed to do so, or
> to get a permit to do so.
>
> Someone suggested the local fire department but I doubt that the local fire
> department would even know what Raku firing was. Or would they get annoyed
> that we are bothering them with something that they may feel was so
> insubstantial in a city where firefighting could mean life or death at any
> call.
>
> So in trying to make something that is getting very longwinded short. Does
> anybody know anything about doing Raku within the city limits, the laws on
> doing it, the possibility on getting a permit to do it or anything about it
> at all.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much.
> Sincerely:
> Mark Petrin & Cindy Gatto
> The Mudpit
> 228 Manhattan Ave
> Brooklyn NY 11206
> 718-218-9424
> mudpitnyc@aol.com
> www.mudpitnyc.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Bruce Girrell on fri 1 mar 02
> Someone suggested the local fire department but I doubt that the
> local fire
> department would even know what Raku firing was. Or would they get annoyed
> that we are bothering them with something that they may feel was so
> insubstantial in a city where firefighting could mean life or death at any
> call.
As with all officials, the fire dept. officials know that when they don't
understand something, it is much safer to simply say no than to permit a
questionable activity. So here is your challenge: You get to educate your
local fire chief about raku. Go straight to the chief if at all possible;
there's no sense in working up the food chain.
1) Present yourself professionally and explain that you want the chief's
input and approval to allow you to create raku on your property. That, of
course, begs the question "What is raku pottery?"
2) Show the chief what the end product looks like and tell why it is so
meaningful to you. Show the works of others who have created striking
pieces. Get the chief to buy into the fact that this is beautiful stuff.
Once these images are stuck in the chief's head, turning you down will
become somewhat of a conflict because it means denying the creation of
beautiful things, whereas if you just explain what you want to do, turning
you down would be a simple CYA move to keep fire statistics in line in the
district. You'll know you're getting somewhere if you can get the chief to
say something along the lines of "I wish I could make things that look like
that."
3) Explain the process and provide pictures or other documentation to show
that it is possible to do the raku process with about the same amount of
smoke as a backyard barbeque. You may have to explain how you plan to
contain the smoke to that level.
4) Demonstrate your awareness of safety precautions. Tell the chief about
the protective equipment that you have. Show pictures of your back yard and
the proposed site. Show that there is a clear working area, no flammable
material anywhere close to the proposed site. The chief's decision will
likely be most strongly driven by the safety aspect. Smoke will be a
secondary issue.
5) If you see uncertainty remaining, ask whether there is anything more that
you could be doing to make the process safer or more acceptable. You want to
be team mates working together to solve a problem (seeing what it takes to
get you a permit) rather than opponents. You may have to get black iron pipe
installed by a union plumber for your gas supply. You may have to get safety
shutoffs on your burners. You may have to have an inspection. If something
seems unreasonable (applying a rule for an industrial ceramics manufacturer
to your situation), then question the rule, but in a way that doesn't
threaten the chief's authority like: "I see how that could be important for
a large manufacturer, but I don't really understand how that rule applies to
my situation. Could you please elaborate on why you feel that this is
important in my case?" Be polite, but stand up for your case.
After all that, I can't guarantee that the chief will allow you to do your
work in your back yard. If the chief is an ass, there's just not much that
you can do. But most reasonable people when approached in the manner that I
have described will have difficulty turning you down. If you do get turned
down always ask "What would it take for you to grant an approval?" and
confirm "So if I do X, Y, and Z, then you will grant a permit?" Keep going
until you have a list of conditions that, if met, guarantee a permit. You
may not be willing to meet those conditions, but now at least you know what
it will take if you really want to do it.
Bruce "my advice is worth at least double what you paid for it" Girrell
Marvpots@AOL.COM on fri 1 mar 02
Hi:
the problem in New York City would be smoke and so the local fire/police
departments can give you good guidance. Be prepared to describe the
procedure fully.
All the best.
Marvin Flowefman
marvpots@aol.com
Ingeborg Foco on fri 1 mar 02
Marcia is right, keep the smoke down. It really isn't necessary. I raku
with one sheet of newspaper. Something I learned at a workshop done by
Jerry Caplan. It works and is better for everyone standing close by.
BQing is generally allowed and most places allow cook outs. So, keep a
frying pan close by in case the raku turns into a cook out :)
Ingeborg
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