Malone & Dean McRaine on tue 5 feb 02
Aloha all; I'm looking for a way to make stains smooth and flowing for
on-glaze decoration. The more they are like brushing water colors the
better. I want to be able to use long flowing decorative strokes. Any
suggestions?
Dean
Dave Gayman on fri 1 mar 02
You probably have to grind your pigments yourself, a chore done for artists
by fine arts paint manufacturers for a couple of centuries now.
Somewhere... in a Dover book I *think*... there's information on how to
grind pigments. It involves a glass plate and a hard knife. You use the
flat of the knife in circular motions to move a slurry of oxide and water
on the glass surface.
I used a palette knife. It's a fairly tedious process and the batch size
is necessarily small. When you begin, the sound is like a thousand tiny
fingernails on a tiny blackboard. Any oxide harder than glass won't
respond to this method, but don't ask me what those might be.
Michael Cardew mentions using a mortar and pestle, but it would have to be
better than the one I use for spices, which has too rough a surface.
The Dover book *may* have been Daniel Thompson's "The Practice of Tempera
Painting," http://store.yahoo.com/doverpublications/0486203433.html. But
double-check or look at a copy to be sure -- I can't find my copy.
If you're in an area with a library that goes back in years, "purist" water
colorists and oil painters used to grind their own pigments, and there may
be more comprehensive books on how to do this in the studio. These
"purist" days most likely corresponded to the arts & crafts era -- 1880s
through 1920s, which also marks the emergence of "how to do it" books, so
look for how-to-paint books within this date range first.
I suppose you could also use a rock tumbler or make your own ball mill with
motor, rollers, hand-thrown porcelain ball mill jar, lid and balls.
Dave
At 09:38 PM 2/5/2002 -1000, you wrote:
>Aloha all; I'm looking for a way to make stains smooth and flowing for
>on-glaze decoration. The more they are like brushing water colors the
>better.
Jennifer F Boyer on fri 1 mar 02
My experience with this is that every oxide or stain is
different because they all have different melting temps and
intensities. At cone 10, cobalt carbonate and iron oxide can be
used as overglaze washes simply by adding water. They can be
used in a true wash consistancy, which makes it easy to use long
flowing brushstrokes. But you can't do that with some other
oxides. Chrome is very refractory and you need to add flux to it
to make it melt into the glaze you are brushing it on. Since
stains are made with oxides( and carbonates) they have the same
types of variation. Try adding refractory stain to a small
amount of your base glaze. Start with 1 Tablespoon of stain in
1/4 cup of glaze. Then water it down to brushing consistancy and
do some testing. The strong oxides can be watered down the most,
making for easy brushing. If you need to add glaze, or flux,
then you've diluted the oxide and it might look washed out when
brushed on because you still have to add water to make it
brushable. I haven't had good luck brushing glazes on. They are
too thick to flow well.
Adding glycerin to the mix can help with brushing. Also make
sure you aren't brushing onto powdery dry glaze. If a pot has
been glazed more than about 20 minutes before I decorate it I
spray it with water.
Good Luck
Jennifer
Malone & Dean McRaine wrote:
>
> Aloha all; I'm looking for a way to make stains smooth and flowing for
> on-glaze decoration. The more they are like brushing water colors the
> better. I want to be able to use long flowing decorative strokes. Any
> suggestions?
> Dean
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
--
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Jennifer Boyer mailto:jboyer@adelphia.net
Thistle Hill Pottery
95 Powder Horn Glen Rd
Montpelier, VT 05602 USA
802-223-8926
http://www.thistlehillpottery.com/
Never pass on an email warning without checking out this site
for web hoaxes and junk:
http://urbanlegends.about.com/
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Earl Brunner on fri 1 mar 02
Since the bisque is porous and the glaze coat generally dry when you try to do
this, it is generally difficult. It's hard to find a brush that will load and give
a good brush stroke and flow over such a surface.
When I do brush work, I like to do it on either the freshly thrown piece or on
leather hard work and then finish off with a glaze that the brush work will show
through. The clay is not yet soaking up a lot from the brush and the strokes flow
much better. It is also easier to erase mistakes and reapply in my experience. I
usually use oxides or stains mixed with a small amount of porcelain and I am
either brushing onto porcelain or onto light colored stoneware.
Having the brush work under the glaze has the added benefit of reducing the chance
that the colorant will leach, or leach as much, as it would if it had been applied
on top of the glaze surface.
Malone & Dean McRaine wrote:
> Aloha all; I'm looking for a way to make stains smooth and flowing for
> on-glaze decoration. The more they are like brushing water colors the
> better. I want to be able to use long flowing decorative strokes. Any
> suggestions?
> Dean
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
mailto:bruec@anv.net
george koller on fri 1 mar 02
Some time ago Ron Roy helped me formulate a faux
majolica. It brushed on nicely, and worked well on
stoneware for testing. It was a simple mix of a frit
(the # of which I can't find and don't remember), CMC,
and stain. Very simple to use. A nice thing about it,
(as opposed to our metal sulfates) is that what you see
for colors is basically what you get.
hope this might help,
george koller
sturgeon bay, wi - door county
Cindy Strnad on fri 1 mar 02
Dear Dean,
I mix my stains with frit (3134, but others will work) and with glycerin and a
dab of propylene glycol. I also read yesterday that a small addition of talc
improves brushing performance.
Best wishes,
=====================================
Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels Pottery
RR 1, Box 51
Custer, SD 57730
USA
cindy@earthen-vessels-pottery.com
http://www.earthen-vessels-pottery.com
CM Critique discussion forum
http://www.earthen-vessels-pottery.com/toforum.html
Michele Williams on fri 1 mar 02
Clayarters,
Newbie Question: What's CMC? I want to do some work with stains for an
assignment in class, and I'm interested in getting maximum good results for
the limited time I have to spend on ceramics (this semester may be all I get
for a loooooong time. Is Ron Roy on this list? Can he tell us what frit,
what that formula referred to in the message below might have been? I love
the colors of staining, and I like the potential this message carries.
Michele Williams
'Nother Newbie
----- Original Message -----
From: "george koller"
To:
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: Smooth Brushing Stains
> Some time ago Ron Roy helped me formulate a faux
> majolica. It brushed on nicely, and worked well on
> stoneware for testing. It was a simple mix of a frit
> (the # of which I can't find and don't remember), CMC,
> and stain. Very simple to use. A nice thing about it,
> (as opposed to our metal sulfates) is that what you see
> for colors is basically what you get.
>
> hope this might help,
>
> george koller
> sturgeon bay, wi - door county
Michele Williams on sat 2 mar 02
George,
You're a doll to help out. I can't quite wrap my Newbie mind around Mia's
instructions for mixing/using the CMC, though. She wrote:
Take an empty plastic bottle and put 12.5 grams of CMC powder in it.
Then add one pint of hot water and let it sit overnight to dissolve
Generally 1 tablespooon of the CMC mix so 100 grams of glaze will
suffice. (from Mia in ABQ)
Does that mean add 1 Tbsp of the mix to 100 grams of glaze? 1 teensy typo
can be confusing and I want to be really sure.
Today I air brushed a wet pot (white clay) with a chrome oxide/water mix. I
didn't try to cover it completely because I want to try firing it that way,
then put several layers of Worthington Clear over it. Then I want to
(tediously) go over the thick clear layers with some cobalt oxide/water mix
wherever the clay shows through widely enough to paint a gentle streak. I
hope it will look as if the blue is rising out of the green, sort of
floating in the sandwich of clear layers. Think it will work? If the stain
doesn't go on smoothly, I don't think it will, hence my delight at finding
this info.
Thanks a gazillion for helping.
Michele
----- Original Message -----
From: "george koller"
To:
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: Smooth Brushing Stains
> Michele,
>
> CMC is (as per my experience anyway) is sold as a powder which
> must be mixed with water. It is an organic material you can
> think of something like starch. You can add more water to it to thin
> out so I mix it and store it a bit thick. It can spoil eventually, so
> a little vinegar (I believe) was recommended on this list at one
> time.
>
> As for mixing here is a post from archives (if they don't all agree
> exactly, well that's the potter biz):
>
>
> Take an empty plastic bottle and put 12.5 grams of CMC powder in it.
> Then add one pint of hot water and let it sit overnight to dissolve
> Generally 1 tablespooon of the CMC mix so 100 grams of glaze will
> suffice. (from Mia in ABQ)
>
>
> As for the frit I just can't find it. but I did find this posting for
> additional information. Majolica, and perhaps a few spelling
> variations of it are rather a common topic on this list. With
> Majolica, I should tell you, you are stepping into a strong and
> rich history..... and you have an opportunity to learn about it
> in the archive and links such as this one.
>
>
> >Linda Arbuckle has written some great information on the Ceramic Web.
> >http://art.sdsu.edu/ceramicsweb/main.html#anchor29623377. There are
> >majolica recipes, information on colorants, and other helpful tips on
> >working with majolica. The clay bodies that I have tried with majolica
> >are CT3 and Red Rock. Both work very well with the Linda Arbuckles
> >majolica glaze recipe.
>
>
> As for Ron Roy, he is not just "On this list" so much as he and a few
> people like him form the backbone of this list. He is a co-auther of
> a new glaze book with John Hesselberth (also on this list).
>
> It is probably a good idea for you to look at, and get an idea of what is
in the
> archives.
>
> .....Sorry but I have still not run across that frit#.
>
>
> Best,
>
> george koller
> sturgeon bay, wi - door county
>
>
> where we recieved about 5" of snow last night and more drifting down
> all the time. its beautiful and quiet out there, but i'm going to have to
> go out and disrupt things with my noisy snowblower eventually.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Michele Williams wrote:
>
> > Clayarters,
> >
> > Newbie Question: What's CMC? I want to do some work with stains for an
> > assignment in class, and I'm interested in getting maximum good results
for
> > the limited time I have to spend on ceramics (this semester may be all I
get
> > for a loooooong time. Is Ron Roy on this list? Can he tell us what
frit,
> > what that formula referred to in the message below might have been? I
love
> > the colors of staining, and I like the potential this message carries.
> >
> > Michele Williams
> > 'Nother Newbie
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "george koller"
> > To:
> > Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 12:24 PM
> > Subject: Re: Smooth Brushing Stains
> >
> > > Some time ago Ron Roy helped me formulate a faux
> > > majolica. It brushed on nicely, and worked well on
> > > stoneware for testing. It was a simple mix of a frit
> > > (the # of which I can't find and don't remember), CMC,
> > > and stain. Very simple to use. A nice thing about it,
> > > (as opposed to our metal sulfates) is that what you see
> > > for colors is basically what you get.
> > >
> > > hope this might help,
> > >
> > > george koller
> > > sturgeon bay, wi - door county
> >
> >
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
george koller on sat 2 mar 02
Michele,
CMC is (as per my experience anyway) is sold as a powder which
must be mixed with water. It is an organic material you can
think of something like starch. You can add more water to it to thin
out so I mix it and store it a bit thick. It can spoil eventually, so
a little vinegar (I believe) was recommended on this list at one
time.
As for mixing here is a post from archives (if they don't all agree
exactly, well that's the potter biz):
Take an empty plastic bottle and put 12.5 grams of CMC powder in it.
Then add one pint of hot water and let it sit overnight to dissolve
Generally 1 tablespooon of the CMC mix so 100 grams of glaze will
suffice. (from Mia in ABQ)
As for the frit I just can't find it. but I did find this posting for
additional information. Majolica, and perhaps a few spelling
variations of it are rather a common topic on this list. With
Majolica, I should tell you, you are stepping into a strong and
rich history..... and you have an opportunity to learn about it
in the archive and links such as this one.
>Linda Arbuckle has written some great information on the Ceramic Web.
>http://art.sdsu.edu/ceramicsweb/main.html#anchor29623377. There are
>majolica recipes, information on colorants, and other helpful tips on
>working with majolica. The clay bodies that I have tried with majolica
>are CT3 and Red Rock. Both work very well with the Linda Arbuckles
>majolica glaze recipe.
As for Ron Roy, he is not just "On this list" so much as he and a few
people like him form the backbone of this list. He is a co-auther of
a new glaze book with John Hesselberth (also on this list).
It is probably a good idea for you to look at, and get an idea of what is in the
archives.
.....Sorry but I have still not run across that frit#.
Best,
george koller
sturgeon bay, wi - door county
where we recieved about 5" of snow last night and more drifting down
all the time. its beautiful and quiet out there, but i'm going to have to
go out and disrupt things with my noisy snowblower eventually.
Michele Williams wrote:
> Clayarters,
>
> Newbie Question: What's CMC? I want to do some work with stains for an
> assignment in class, and I'm interested in getting maximum good results for
> the limited time I have to spend on ceramics (this semester may be all I get
> for a loooooong time. Is Ron Roy on this list? Can he tell us what frit,
> what that formula referred to in the message below might have been? I love
> the colors of staining, and I like the potential this message carries.
>
> Michele Williams
> 'Nother Newbie
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "george koller"
> To:
> Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 12:24 PM
> Subject: Re: Smooth Brushing Stains
>
> > Some time ago Ron Roy helped me formulate a faux
> > majolica. It brushed on nicely, and worked well on
> > stoneware for testing. It was a simple mix of a frit
> > (the # of which I can't find and don't remember), CMC,
> > and stain. Very simple to use. A nice thing about it,
> > (as opposed to our metal sulfates) is that what you see
> > for colors is basically what you get.
> >
> > hope this might help,
> >
> > george koller
> > sturgeon bay, wi - door county
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
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