Joy Friedman on sun 3 mar 02
Hello all,
I just ordered a new 10 cu. ft. L&L electric kiln with an easy spring lid.
It seems to be very unstable and has a lot of play in the hinge.
Does anyone out there in pottery land have one? I know it is new to the
market but there must be a few folks already using one. If anyone does have
one, please let me know if you like it and what you think of it.
Thanks,
Joy
Dupre Mr Marcy M on mon 4 mar 02
Joy,
I have the L&L Jupiter with Dynatrol controller, and the spring assisted
lid. For me, a 56 year-old male, lifting the lid is still somewhat of an
effort, even with the spring-assist. I have put the butt of the spring in
the tightest retainer position available, but it is still somewhat of an
effort to raise the lid and keep it from slamming when I lower it.
Other factors for consideration: I also ordered the thicker kiln brick, so
that makes the lid somewhat heavier. And, while this is not a consideration
for weight, it may be that the thicker brick was adjusted for in the design
of the kiln lid, because there is a 1/4" gap between body and lid. I will
be getting some ceramic fiber to make a "grommet" to reduce heat escape. (I
just hate seeing money go out the window."
A note to the company has produced no results, by the way. I like the kiln,
just cannot abide the sloppy construction. Next time, I'll ask around and
probably buy something different.
BTW: Did you have problems with the lid spring popping out of the retainer
hole? I had to eventually wire the spring in. For several thousand
dollars, I shouldn't have to jury-rig anything. Irritating...
Best of fortune with your kiln,
Tig
Get Dirty!
-----Original Message-----
From: Joy Friedman [mailto:joyozuki@CROCKER.COM]
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 6:24 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: kiln w/ spring lid
Hello all,
I just ordered a new 10 cu. ft. L&L electric kiln with an easy spring lid.
It seems to be very unstable and has a lot of play in the hinge.
Does anyone out there in pottery land have one? I know it is new to the
market but there must be a few folks already using one. If anyone does have
one, please let me know if you like it and what you think of it.
Thanks,
Joy
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Orchard Valley Ceramic Arts Guild on mon 4 mar 02
>Hello all,
>I just ordered a new 10 cu. ft. L&L electric kiln with an easy spring lid.
>It seems to be very unstable and has a lot of play in the hinge.
>Does anyone out there in pottery land have one? I know it is new to the
>market but there must be a few folks already using one. If anyone does have
>one, please let me know if you like it and what you think of it.
>Thanks,
>Joy
In general, I don't trust any lid prop or spring. I'd recommend you
secure a cable or chain to a ceiling stud, attach a hook to the end, and
make sure you always hook the lid to the chain when you raise it.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Bob Nicholson
Webmaster, Orchard Valley Ceramic Arts Guild
http://www.ovcag.org/
Arnold Howard on mon 4 mar 02
I have not seen the kiln in question. However, I can comment on the
gap between the lid and top rim of firebricks.
During firing, the bricks expand so much that the kiln actually
becomes taller. The gap between the lid and kiln should close
tightly during firing. The gap was probably placed there
intentionally.
If the hinge assembly does not contain a gap somewhere, the front
of the lid will rise during firing.
Arnold Howard
Paragon
--- Dupre Mr Marcy M wrote:
> Joy,
>
> I have the L&L Jupiter with Dynatrol controller, and the spring
> assisted
> lid. For me, a 56 year-old male, lifting the lid is still
> somewhat of an
> effort, even with the spring-assist. I have put the butt of the
> spring in
> the tightest retainer position available, but it is still
> somewhat of an
> effort to raise the lid and keep it from slamming when I lower
> it.
>
> Other factors for consideration: I also ordered the thicker kiln
> brick, so
> that makes the lid somewhat heavier. And, while this is not a
> consideration
> for weight, it may be that the thicker brick was adjusted for in
> the design
> of the kiln lid, because there is a 1/4" gap between body and
> lid. I will
> be getting some ceramic fiber to make a "grommet" to reduce heat
> escape. (I
> just hate seeing money go out the window."
>
> A note to the company has produced no results, by the way. I
> like the kiln,
> just cannot abide the sloppy construction. Next time, I'll ask
> around and
> probably buy something different.
>
> BTW: Did you have problems with the lid spring popping out of the
> retainer
> hole? I had to eventually wire the spring in. For several
> thousand
> dollars, I shouldn't have to jury-rig anything. Irritating...
>
> Best of fortune with your kiln,
>
> Tig
> Get Dirty!
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joy Friedman [mailto:joyozuki@CROCKER.COM]
> Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 6:24 PM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: kiln w/ spring lid
>
>
> Hello all,
> I just ordered a new 10 cu. ft. L&L electric kiln with an easy
> spring lid.
> It seems to be very unstable and has a lot of play in the hinge.
> Does anyone out there in pottery land have one? I know it is new
> to the
> market but there must be a few folks already using one. If anyone
> does have
> one, please let me know if you like it and what you think of it.
> Thanks,
> Joy
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
> subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
> subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
__________________________________________________
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Bobbi Bassett on tue 5 mar 02
Tig
Before you give up on L&L send an email directly to Steve Lewicki at L&L...
steve@hotkilns.com. You will get an answer. He is very prompt and thorough in
answering emails. L&L has a good reputation. Don't let one note gone astray
change your opinion. They really do care... and I don't work for L&L. I'm a
potter like the rest of us and they have treated me well.
Bobbi in PA
Concepts in Clay
In a message dated 3/4/2002 8:17:32 AM Eastern Standard Time,
dupremm@MSTP.QUANTICO.USMC.MIL writes:
> Joy,
>
> I have the L&L Jupiter with Dynatrol controller, and the spring assisted
> lid. For me, a 56 year-old male, lifting the lid is still somewhat of an
> effort, even with the spring-assist. I have put the butt of the spring in
> the tightest retainer position available, but it is still somewhat of an
> effort to raise the lid and keep it from slamming when I lower it.
>
> Other factors for consideration: I also ordered the thicker kiln brick, so
> that makes the lid somewhat heavier. And, while this is not a consideration
> for weight, it may be that the thicker brick was adjusted for in the design
> of the kiln lid, because there is a 1/4" gap between body and lid. I will
> be getting some ceramic fiber to make a "grommet" to reduce heat escape. (I
> just hate seeing money go out the window."
>
> A note to the company has produced no results, by the way. I like the kiln,
> just cannot abide the sloppy construction. Next time, I'll ask around and
> probably buy something different.
>
> BTW: Did you have problems with the lid spring popping out of the retainer
> hole? I had to eventually wire the spring in. For several thousand
> dollars, I shouldn't have to jury-rig anything. Irritating...
>
> Best of fortune with your kiln,
>
> Tig
> Get Dirty!
>
Stephen J Lewicki on thu 7 mar 02
To all who are following this thread on L&L=92s spring hinge=96
Last year we developed our new spring assisted hinge for a number of
reasons. First, the entire body of the hinge was beefed up from what we had
in the past. Second, the hinge design allows the door to be opened past the
vertical axis of the kiln and eliminates the use of bars or chains to hold
the door up. This allows full access to the kiln while loading it =96
something we feel is important and useful. The hinge also holds up to three
sections together as one integrated unit. The spring-assist part of it,
which is accomplished with a torsion spring, reduces =96 but does not
eliminate the weight of the door. We have gone through a few design updates
in very quick order, resolving most of the issues with this design.
Safety issues:
When the lid is in the up position there is a plunger pin that firmly and
securely holds the lid in place. In addition, L&L provides a safety chain
and a wall hook. We expect people to use this safety chain and I would
recommend it to other manufacturers and to people using kilns without it.
It is something my father came up with years ago in response to a lid
falling on someone. This is a serious safety issue and I=92m not sure how
other manufacturers are dealing with it. The bar supports that I commonly
see are questionable. I do like the lid on the Paragon Viking but I haven=92=
t
studied it closely enough to comment on this aspect. In any case I am quite
satisfied that if customers follow our simple instructions they will have a
very safe and very easy to load kiln. I would ask people with bar type
hinge supports to examine it for safety. It seems to me on some of these
designs that the bar could easily be dislodged causing the lid to come down
while you are deep into loading the kiln.
Play in the lid:
The amount of play in the lid is absolutely necessary for the expansion and
contraction of the kiln. It is important that when the kiln is originally
set up, that the hinge pin rests at the bottom of the slot, to allow for
the upward expansion of the kiln. This is the issue that Arnold alluded
to. The kiln grows vertically and the lid must move up and down in a slot.
This slot, unfortunately, allows some sloppiness in the action of the
hinge. I wonder if Tig=92s problem could have been caused by the hinge
assembly (which can be moved up or down with adjustment slots) was not
adjusted properly.
Solidness:
The spring hinge is not only attached to the kiln with 20 screws, but the
screws pass through the stainless steel band, and into several 8=94x8=94 pla=
tes
of aluminized steel. Also, on 29=94 diameter kilns, the lid is supported not=
just at the back end, closest to the hinge, but at the front too, thereby
eliminating much of the stress on the lid. On 17-1/2=94 and 23-1/3=94 diamet=
er
kilns there is also a heavy-duty lid brace that takes much of the pressure
off the fragile firebrick.
More on potential gaps:
It is very possible and even likely, especially on larger 29=94 diameter
kilns that the deflection of the lid at high-fire temperatures will cause
the OUTSIDE edge of the lid to rise upward, while the INSIDE edge of the
kiln wall continues to make contact. This will most certainly cause a
glowing seam, because the soft brick inside that gap will be glowing.
Weight of the lid:
The spring is a lift assist, meant to take SOME of the weight off of the
lid, not meant to get rid of the weight of the lid. After the lid is fired
for the first time, any moisture in the lid will be driven off, thereby
further reducing the weight of the lid. As an example, a J2927 (29=94
diameter kiln) with a 2-1/2=94 lid takes 33 pounds to start the lifting
process. With the spring assist it takes 22 pounds. This is before the lid
is fired so these weights are actually higher than a customer would have to
handle.
Torque
We have noted on some of the hinges that the torsion springs puts a bit of
torque in the lid so that it does not want to comedown straight. This is an
inherent problem of the torsion spring. However, we seem to have resolved
most of this by design updates and adjustment in the assembly procedure. It
is an easy matter to pull the lid to one side to overcome this torque.
Spring being loose:
There was one iteration of the design on the J18 and J230 versions spring
hinge that had too much clearance between the lid part of the hinge and the
body part of the hinge. This could allow the spring to slide to one side
and allow the spring end to come out of the slot that holds it in place. A
few washers over the hinge bar will solve this problem. They=92re only a
handful of these in the field. If you think you are experiencing this
problem please give us a call at 877-513-7869 or send an email.
For more information:
The instructions that we provide for installing our hinge are available on
our web site for anyone who wants to dig deeper into this. Go to:
http://www.hotkilns.com/jupiter-spring-setup.pdf. Also we will have on of
these lids on a JD2927 at NCECA and at the NAEA show coming up.
Dan Ody in our office has been discussing these issues with Joy (Dan=92s
comments form the bulk of this missive) and we are always available to work
though any issues with customers. We do try to be prompt and thorough but
particular problems can and do fall through the cracks sometimes during the
course of a busy day. As Bobbi so kindly pointed out you can always get me
at my email address.
Stephen J Lewicki
President
steve@hotkilns.com
L&L Kiln Mfg.
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