Valice Raffi on fri 15 mar 02
Occasionally I'm asked to repair a piece that a customer has broken,
sometimes after they've owned the piece for a long time.
Mostly, the client will offer to pay me for my time. Depending on how hard
the repair is to do, I'll either take some money or not, but sometimes
people act as though it's my responsibility to fix it for free.
How do you folks handle that kind of problem?
Valice
in Sacramento
Working Potter on fri 15 mar 02
I don't touch them as the potential liability involved would scare the
bejeepers out of me and repairing someone elses work is not why I went into
clay.i get several calls a year and foreward them onto the local museum.
Misty
In a message dated 3/15/2002 11:55:17 AM Eastern Standard Time,
valice1@EARTHLINK.NET writes:
> Occasionally I'm asked to repair a piece that a customer has broken,
> sometimes after they've owned the piece for a long time.
>
> Mostly, the client will offer to pay me for my time. Depending on how hard
> the repair is to do, I'll either take some money or not, but sometimes
> people act as though it's my responsibility to fix it for free.
>
> How do you folks handle that kind of problem?
>
> Valice
> in Sacramento
>
>
Valice Raffi on fri 15 mar 02
oh duh! - I should have mentioned that I "do" sculpture!
Valice
>I don't touch them as the potential liability involved would scare the
>bejeepers out of me and repairing someone elses work is not why I went into
>clay.i get several calls a year and foreward them onto the local museum.
>Misty
Colleen Young on fri 15 mar 02
I too, am asked the same question about repairing pottery that I have made
years before, or even pottery I have not made, but my stock answer is "I am
terribly sorry, but technically it is too difficult, and I cannot guarantee
that the repair would last. I make this comment with a cheery smile -
usually the customer accepts my explanation. ColleenOriginal Message -----
From: Valice Raffi
To:
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 9:26 AM
Subject: repairing pieces for customers
> Occasionally I'm asked to repair a piece that a customer has broken,
> sometimes after they've owned the piece for a long time.
>
> Mostly, the client will offer to pay me for my time. Depending on how hard
> the repair is to do, I'll either take some money or not, but sometimes
> people act as though it's my responsibility to fix it for free.
>
> How do you folks handle that kind of problem?
>
> Valice
> in Sacramento
>
>
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Paul Gerhold on sat 16 mar 02
Dear Vince,
I refer people to a professional restorer. It's a good test of how much they
value the piece plus the end result is much better than anything I can do.
Restored pieces even have the ring of the original.
Paul-in Florida where the orange trees blooming make the whole worlda
perfumed garden
vince pitelka on sat 16 mar 02
> Mostly, the client will offer to pay me for my time. Depending on how hard
> the repair is to do, I'll either take some money or not, but sometimes
> people act as though it's my responsibility to fix it for free.
Valice -
Any customer who expects you to fix a piece for free is delusional, but you
really have to approach this on a case-by-case basis. If it is a really
good customer, and a reasonable repair, then I would offer to do it for
free. Otherwise, charge a fair hourly wage for the time to do the repair,
and if anyone implies that you should do it for free, gently respond "Now
why in the world would I do that?"
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
vince pitelka on sat 16 mar 02
> I refer people to a professional restorer. It's a good test of how much
they
> value the piece plus the end result is much better than anything I can do.
> Restored pieces even have the ring of the original.
> Paul-in Florida where the orange trees blooming make the whole worlda
> perfumed garden
Paul -
I envy your perfumed garden! I would never refer customers to a
professional restorer unless the piece was an antique or a sculptural piece.
I think that restoration to a contemporary functional piece (i.e., invisible
repair, back to original condition) constitutes deception. A repair to a
functional piece should always be visible and identifiable. When I was a
full-time studio potter I would sometimes do the repair myself if the piece
was good enough (only on my own work, of course), or else I would tell the
customer how to do the repair.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Valice Raffi on sun 17 mar 02
I like that "gently assertive" response - definately a lot better than what
runs through my mind to say!
Thanks especially to Vince & Stephani for reminding me to be strong instead
of a wimp about this - I can usually do great repairs on my sculptures and
I'm worth every cent!
Valice
in Sacramento
>Valice -
>Any customer who expects you to fix a piece for free is delusional, but you
>really have to approach this on a case-by-case basis. If it is a really
>good customer, and a reasonable repair, then I would offer to do it for
>free. Otherwise, charge a fair hourly wage for the time to do the repair,
>and if anyone implies that you should do it for free, gently respond "Now
>why in the world would I do that?"
>Best wishes -
Paul Gerhold on tue 19 mar 02
Vince,
I fail to understand why if a person chooses to have their piece restored to
it's original condition it could be considered a deception. Now, if I
repaired one of my pieces and sold it as original that would be a deception.
By your logic there is an awfully lot of deception going on in museums and in
the big art market.And, of course I would love to see how your cars look
after they are repaired,
Paul-in olfactory heaven.
Stephani Stephenson on wed 20 mar 02
Janet makes some good points in her post, but I think sweeping
generalizations about NEVER doing repairs , and the 'insult 'of being
asked to do repairs are somewhat overstated.
In a previous post I mentioned two cases where I have done repair
I was not talking about a 'vessel' or a 'pot' whose integrity was
somehow violated.
Again , the world of clay includes more than wheel thrown pottery.
In this case I was talking about hand built 'sculptural' pieces.
In some sense these particular sculptures might be thought of as dolls
or figurines or statues, rather than a pot or cup or bowl.
They were part of a series I did years ago , sort of a western mythology
series.
I had elk women and coyote cowgirls and bird/human figures.
about 1 2/ to 2 feet tall. Quite textured, high fired, stains and
textural glazes.
One woman, an author, had bought one of them.
Her kids grew up with it, dressing it, bringing it flowers, making up
stories about it. The woman actually wrote her first book with
it as her main character.
It was damaged in an earthquake, basically it fell to the floor and an
ear broke off!
She sought to have it repaired and first contacted out a 'professional
restorer'.
Evidently the materials (highfire stoneware, textural surface) were
unlike the typical materials this restorer worked with.
She did not feel confident about the restorer.
So , through the gallery where she first purchased the piece, she
inquired about repair.
Without promising anything I said I would look at the piece.
After examining it , I was only too happy to do it.
Who best to do it,? I am familiar with the pigments used . I am also
quite familiar with adhesives and 'cold' surface repairs.
I am quite able to do a repair , preserving structural and visual
integrity to the piece.
I received good payment for the repair and the client was quite gracious
and appreciative.
The piece has great sentimental value to the family.
It is not a commercial commodity or 'collectible' in the market in any
other way.
It is somewhat different than historical restoration.
I see no reason not to do such a repair in limited situations.
But I have also said no , quite readily and firmly, on other occasions
.
Also , when one is self supporting , small jobs such as this are
sometimes timely and much appreciated.
And , rather than feeling insulted, I enjoy this type of work
occasonally because it is like satisfying detective work.
But certainly this is not apropriate for all pieces, in fact I think it
applies only in a tiny percentage of cases.
The truth is that ceramic sculptors often do such repairs with their
own work, preparing it for show, and can be quite adept at it.
This varies from person to person, but yes it happens, especially with
large scale work.
I do think there may be different approaches, depending on the type of
work, the approach and yes, sometimes the scruples of the artist.
I think a famous example of extensive repair of a work in progress is
the Scarab vase by Adelaide Robineau.
Such repair might seem objectionable to the purist potter, but there are
other perspectives held by quite capable people who have given us some
wonderful works of art.
Please note, I am not saying an artist or potter should fuss to repair,
refire and save everything.
Believe me , I have tossed and culled many a piece.
Just a footnote to the proclamation of never.
sincerely
Stephani Stephenson
Snail Scott on wed 20 mar 02
I have to agree with Stephanie on this one. Occasionally
I get calls from former customers who want me to repair
a piece. I'm glad they call. My work is my best
advertising, and I want my customers' friends and visitors
to see my work at its best. They are potential customers,
every one of them.I would rather be the one to fix it,
than to trust it to a restorer of unknown qualifications,
and have no say in the methods used or the quality of the
finished job. Also, I used to make money on the side doing
repair and maintenance on other people's work, and frankly,
I can still use the cash. I charge rates similar to what
it cost when I worked for a 'real' company doing such
things. I used to be amazed at my guts for asking such
prices, but the customers seldom blink - they pay similar
prices for car repair and plumbing.(I do my own car and
house repair when possible, so I tend to slip into a 'labor
is free' mindset - VERY bad!)
My customers paid good cash for my work originally, and
don't expect my repair work to be any cheaper - if
anything, they expect to pay a premium to have the original
artist make the repair, compared with a mere restoration
technician. They feel it gives the repaired work more value.
And a former customer may be a future customer, too, so I
try to keep them happy. I don't sell hundreds of pieces a
year, so a little personal attention to each buyer is no
great hardship.
And besides, when I ask to borrow all that stuff back for
my big retrospective at the Whitney (any day now, right?),
I want it to look good! ;)
-Snail
Janet Kaiser on wed 20 mar 02
I would NEVER, EVER ask a potter or ceramic artist to repair work. I
would regard it as a gross insult. "Hey, by the way, this guy threw
your pot at this partner and it broke. Could you stick it back
together for him please?" I think not!
Makers/artists produce new work, it is simply not their job to repair
it. Shouldn't be expected of them.
First thing I do, is commiserate with the breakage of such a beautiful
unique piece of work, which can never be repeated. But, that is sadly
what happens to pots... It is what adds to the value of Old Pots...
All their brothers and sisters are long since buried. So, the first
suggestion: how about buying another pot by the same maker...? It will
only cost the same as a proper restoration of this broken pot and you
will have the joy of being able to use it again, not just as a
decoration...
If for some reason (usually sentimental) they want this pot and
nothing else will do... Well they are politely and firmly sent to a
qualified and professional ceramic restorer OF GOOD REPUTE. I
capitalised that, because anyone can attend a week-end workshop and
then call themselves "a restorer". (I know of a woman who took a
three-day course at West Dean in the UK, then returned to her home
country and put an advert in the antique press... She is now
"restoring" ceramics in important historical collections for museums
around the whole country. Her tutor was appalled, because she wasn't
gifted, good or even showing promise...! No comment!).
Even if a pot is "only made by so-and-so" who is not yet anywhere near
top of the ceramic ladder, we owe it to them to make sure that their
work is repaired to the highest possible standard. If it is
uneconomic -- costs more than a replacement -- it is up to the owner
to decide what is best, but they usually opt for a replacement.
VALUATION OF RESTORED WARE:
Any work which has been broken is always worth less than its "perfect"
twin, no matter if it has been restored by an expert or a pre-school
child. However, the depreciation goes from "just slightly less than
the price of a perfect piece" to "not worth the price of a postage
stamp" all relative to how well the restoration has been done and what
the market value of similar work is... Pretty much like degrees which
work is classed as "seconds" or even "thirds" right down to a full
scale hammer job.
DECEPTION?
Not even the best restoration in the world will fool an expert.
Auction houses, galleries, collectors, fellow makers/artists all have
various degrees of expertise, but will always pick up on anything
which is not quite right... The look, the ring, the feel, the
balance... All indicators because they do more than just look at a
pot... The integrity of anything is more than skin-deep... or glaze
deep as here.
However, deception would be practised (in a legal sense) if the seller
were not to list any faults -- both obvious and/or hidden from view --
to any prospective buyer or exhibitor such as a gallery. Any fault at
all. And a broken pot is one hell of a fault, even if it has been
patched up so "no one could tell the difference".
Janet Kaiser
The Chapel of Art / Capel Celfyddyd
Home of The International Potters' Path
8 Marine Crescent : Criccieth : GB-Wales
URL: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
postbox@the-coa.org.uk
vince pitelka on thu 21 mar 02
> I fail to understand why if a person chooses to have their piece restored
to
> it's original condition it could be considered a deception. Now, if I
> repaired one of my pieces and sold it as original that would be a
deception.
>
> By your logic there is an awfully lot of deception going on in museums and
in
> the big art market.And, of course I would love to see how your cars look
> after they are repaired,
Paul -
Hmmmm, strange response. I did clearly say that restoration was appropriate
for sculpture or antiquities, but that it was inappropriate to do an
invisible "restoration" on contemporary functional pots. Isn't that a
little obvious? Most commercial ceramic restoration is done with acrylic
products. You want someone to put one of those pieces in the oven? So I'm
afraid your logic doesn't follow my logic.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
vince pitelka on sun 24 mar 02
> The issue of appropriateness is one I believe is best left between the
owner
> and the restorer-particularly since in this day and age a great deal of
what
> is called functional is mostly decorative anyway but that is a topic for
> another time.
This is kind of going off the deep end, Paul. You originally said that
rather than doing a repair yourself, you send the customer to a professional
restorer. For most repairs of functional items, that of course would be
complete overkill. If someone has a piece they simply want to keep using,
then a simple epoxy repair will do the trick, and you or I can do a good job
of that. The repair is visible, and no one is going to stick the piece in
the oven.
My point from the start is that it would be inappropriate to do an invisible
repair on a functional piece, although as you point out, it is entirely up
to the individual what they want to do, and if they choose to pay the
exorbitant prices of a professional restorer for a PLASTIC repair on a
ceramic piece, that is their choice. I can't see the point in that. Other
than a valuable antique, I wouldn't want to own a piece which passed itself
off as perfect when in fact it had been damaged. This is a very sticky
subject, and other than antiquities, I still say that an invisible repair on
a functional piece is deceptive. This is one of the reasons why buying
collectors pots on eBay can be so risky. When you examine a piece in
person, you can instantly tell if there is an acrylic repair, because the
ceramic surfaces feel cold and solid to the touch, while the acrylic areas
do not feel cold, and they have that slightly resilient quality of plastic.
I'd rather have the piece with the original flaw rather than a plastic
repair.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Paul Gerhold on sun 24 mar 02
Dear Vince,
Sorry but I do not think it was a strange response on my part, nor do I think
your reply addressed my question. Your E-mail said it would be deceptive for
an individual to choose to have a professional restorer work on a functional
piece which is in their own collection. My question was in what way could
this be considered a deception since the piece is not being sold..The
question of whether or not such a restoration is appropriate is entirely
different from whether or not it is a deception which implies a desire to
decieve. The obvious question would be who would be decieving whom?
.
The issue of appropriateness is one I believe is best left between the owner
and the restorer-particularly since in this day and age a great deal of what
is called functional is mostly decorative anyway but that is a topic for
another time.
Paul
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