John Jensen on tue 19 mar 02
I don't know why John Waters was chosen for the featured speaker at a
pottery conference. I had to assume somebody had an idea and good reason,
so I showed up and stayed for the party. I like the few John Waters films
I've seen, I've heard him interviewed on Terry Gross', Fresh Air program on
NPR; so I sort of knew what he was about. He was introduced as something
like the King of Bad Taste..it should have been no surprise that he would
exceed the normal bounds of public discourse. But I was shocked all the
same. Shocked and amazed that he could get away with such excesses in front
of an audience of 4000 or so. I was very proud of us as potters that we
could, as a group rise to the occasion and find the rich vein of humour
there.
It seems to me that one of the essential requirements for creativity is
pushing past the limits of what is normal and acceptable and comfortable.
It was very refreshing to see someone moving so comfortably so far beyond
the normal boundaries of good taste. Funny as can be and liberating. Ninety
nine percent of the people there were laughing and enjoying Mr. Waters
bravura performance, and it was interesting to see the few people running
out with their hands over their ears saying NONONONONONONONONONONONOON! (at
least that's what it looked like to me)
I liked Coleman Barks who read poetry last year a bit better. It was more
seemly. But I think I needed a little bit of a shake up. I liked it.
John Jensen, Mudbug Pottery, Annapolis
mudbug@toad.net, www.Toadhouse.com
Dwiggins, Sandra (NCI) on tue 19 mar 02
John...
I didn't go to NCECA this year, but I really wanted to hear what Waters did.
I thought it was hilarious that the committee chose him for the Randall
Lecture, and VERY, VERY fitting. He has always pushed the boundaries of
what is acceptable social behavior...and he is still making films. If there
are clay people who want to be artists...they are going to have to liberate
themselves just like John Waters......
I think that some of us are too tied to "acceptable social behavior" because
we want to make a living. But, some of us have that "other side" that
doesn't often get out...at least often enough.
It must have been a hoot!
Sandy
Earl Brunner on tue 19 mar 02
Glad again that I chose not to go. There are all kinds of perverse and evil and
degrading things that you can subject yourself to if you follow this rationale.
But will it make you a better person or a better potter? He got away with the
excesses because we let him, or you collectively let him. That makes you somehow
PROUD? Humor is ok if it makes us laugh? ALL humor?
Creativity is not always about pushing the limits. Creativity is also making
beautiful things that somehow work in spite of the limits.
(Peace, John I am not trying to make this a personal attack, just responding to
your words)
John Jensen wrote:
> He was introduced as something
> like the King of Bad Taste..it should have been no surprise that he would
> exceed the normal bounds of public discourse. But I was shocked all the
> same. Shocked and amazed that he could get away with such excesses in front
> of an audience of 4000 or so. I was very proud of us as potters that we
> could, as a group rise to the occasion and find the rich vein of humour
> there.
> It seems to me that one of the essential requirements for creativity is
> pushing past the limits of what is normal and acceptable and comfortable.
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
mailto:bruec@anv.net
claybair on tue 19 mar 02
Now I'm really sorry I missed NCECA 2002.
Hey I may be 56 but I love John Waters, watch South Park, etc........
rules and standards are made to be broken....... get over it guys......
I'll take Devine any day over the mainstreamers who sanction or participate
in killing and maiming.
Frankly I find politicians much more scary!
Gayle Bair- Perhaps Soldner chose John Waters....... too funny!
Bainbridge Island, WA
http://claybair.com
John Jense wrote>>
I don't know why John Waters was chosen for the featured speaker at a
pottery conference. I had to assume somebody had an idea and good reason,
so I showed up and stayed for the party. I like the few John Waters films
I've seen, I've heard him interviewed on Terry Gross', Fresh Air program on
NPR; so I sort of knew what he was about. He was introduced as something
like the King of Bad Taste..it should have been no surprise that he would
exceed the normal bounds of public discourse. But I was shocked all the
same. Shocked and amazed that he could get away with such excesses in front
of an audience of 4000 or so. I was very proud of us as potters that we
could, as a group rise to the occasion and find the rich vein of humour
there.
It seems to me that one of the essential requirements for creativity is
pushing past the limits of what is normal and acceptable and comfortable.
It was very refreshing to see someone moving so comfortably so far beyond
the normal boundaries of good taste. Funny as can be and liberating. Ninety
nine percent of the people there were laughing and enjoying Mr. Waters
bravura performance, and it was interesting to see the few people running
out with their hands over their ears saying NONONONONONONONONONONONOON! (at
least that's what it looked like to me)
I liked Coleman Barks who read poetry last year a bit better. It was more
seemly. But I think I needed a little bit of a shake up. I liked it.
John Jensen, Mudbug Pottery, Annapolis
mudbug@toad.net, www.Toadhouse.com
Earl Brunner on tue 19 mar 02
Have you hung out in a public school lately? try it, the de-emphasis on
"acceptable social behavior" is taking it toll, and doesn't bode well for the
future of our society.
"Dwiggins, Sandra (NCI)" wrote:
> I think that some of us are too tied to "acceptable social behavior" because
> we want to make a living. But, some of us have that "other side" that
> doesn't often get out...at least often enough.
>
> It must have been a hoot!
> Sandy
>
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
mailto:bruec@anv.net
Dwiggins, Sandra (NCI) on wed 20 mar 02
Hey Earl...I don't want to get into a big thing about this...but if you're
refering(sp?) to hairstyles, and dress styles, and smoking, etc., all I can
say is....if you've been the parent of a teen person, you see it all. My
daughter hung out with the Goths, and all the other quirky dudes and
dudettes in her public high school...and died her hair orange, etc., etc.
And you know what's amazing? Her hair grew out, and her clothes changed
when she had to get a job, and, she stopped speaking in slang and swearing
when she was at a cocktail party. And, she still likes John Waters movies,
but she also reads heavy duty books, and is now thinking about getting a
Ph.D.
I have great hope in the future of our society if it is in the hands of my
daughter, but I have a great dread of the future of our society as our
basic freedoms are quietly eroded...so quietly that no one even talks about
it. Freedom of speech is a basic one.
Sandy
-----Original Message-----
From: Earl Brunner [mailto:bruec@ANV.NET]
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 8:48 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: the Randall Sessions (NCECA 2002)
Have you hung out in a public school lately? try it, the de-emphasis on
"acceptable social behavior" is taking it toll, and doesn't bode well for
the
future of our society.
"Dwiggins, Sandra (NCI)" wrote:
> I think that some of us are too tied to "acceptable social behavior"
because
> we want to make a living. But, some of us have that "other side" that
> doesn't often get out...at least often enough.
>
> It must have been a hoot!
> Sandy
>
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
mailto:bruec@anv.net
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
James Bowen on wed 20 mar 02
I don't know if Soldner invited John Waters, but I
personally made sure he left carrying a Soldner poster.
Stay Centered
James Bowen
Boyero CO
jbowen43@yahoo.com
jbowen43@plains.net
" I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap
himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the
Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag."
claybair on wed 20 mar 02
What a hoot!
Perhaps John Waters will get inspired and make a movie featuring
Soldner....or based on him and other potters. It could be called "Potters
Field" or "Gone to Pot" or " Potty break".... or....or..
Too bad Devine is dead... I could just see him/her at the wheel!
The biggest problem would be how to get Earl to view it. We'd have to work
some elaborate ruse then duct tape him to the theater seat!->
Gayle Bair... wishing you a happy first day of spring.....as I watch a snow
storm getting more furious by the minute!
Bainbridge Island, WA
http://claybair.com
-----Original Message-----
James Bowen
I don't know if Soldner invited John Waters, but I
personally made sure he left carrying a Soldner poster.
Stay Centered
James Bowen
Boyero CO
jbowen43@yahoo.com
jbowen43@plains.net
" I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap
himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the
Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag."
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Roger Korn on thu 21 mar 02
After reading all the comments (I wasn't at NCECA), Waters' bit sounds like an
artistic success. I like art to make me fall in love or really piss me off. The
rest of my experience of life furnishes all the comfort and boredom I can handle.
Roger, feeling sorry for himself for not going.
claybair wrote:
> What a hoot!
> Perhaps John Waters will get inspired and make a movie featuring
> Soldner....or based on him and other potters. It could be called "Potters
> Field" or "Gone to Pot" or " Potty break".... or....or..
> Too bad Devine is dead... I could just see him/her at the wheel!
> The biggest problem would be how to get Earl to view it. We'd have to work
> some elaborate ruse then duct tape him to the theater seat!->
>
> Gayle Bair... wishing you a happy first day of spring.....as I watch a snow
> storm getting more furious by the minute!
> Bainbridge Island, WA
> http://claybair.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> James Bowen
>
> I don't know if Soldner invited John Waters, but I
> personally made sure he left carrying a Soldner poster.
>
> Stay Centered
> James Bowen
> Boyero CO
> jbowen43@yahoo.com
> jbowen43@plains.net
>
> " I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap
> himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the
> Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag."
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
--
Roger Korn
McKay Creek Ceramics
In AZ: PO Box 463
4215 Culpepper Ranch Rd
Rimrock, AZ 86335
928-567-5699 <-
In OR: PO Box 436
31330 NW Pacific Ave.
North Plains, OR 97133
503-647-5464
Marie Gibbons on thu 21 mar 02
> After reading all the comments (I wasn't at NCECA), Waters' bit sounds like
> an
> artistic success. I like art to make me fall in love or really piss me off.
> The
> rest of my experience of life furnishes all the comfort and boredom I can
> handle.
>
> Roger, feeling sorry for himself for not going.
>
Just have to say something.... this thread is one of those things that get
crazy, over analyzing. Basically, the speaker was to set a tone of thought,
about pushing limits.... following your passion (not his) taking risks . .
.his style is his style, the crux of the presentation was to do things your
way, to get to the edge of things, not stay safe in the middle. I loved it.
This reminds me of that lengthy thread on Confrontational Clay a year or
more ago, and by the way, I went to that exhibit, and it was one of my
favorites! Beautiful, moving, deep work.
marie gibbons
www.oooladies.com
vince pitelka on thu 21 mar 02
> Have you hung out in a public school lately? try it, the de-emphasis on
> "acceptable social behavior" is taking it toll, and doesn't bode well for
the
> future of our society.
Good point about the public schools, Earl, but it has absolutely nothing to
do with John Waters being irreverent and obscene in front of a bunch of
adults. Let's at least stay in an appropriate context.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Earl Brunner on mon 25 mar 02
Put like that, at first I felt that your argument has some merit.
However as I began to put my thoughts together to respond, I find that I
don't really accept the logic fully. There are a couple of critical
differences. I am not an art critic who will report in the press
something that will have a negative affect on someone's exhibit, my
opinion expressed after the fact had no negative impact on attendance at
the Randall Session. Furthermore, my negative opinion was expressed in
open dialogue with dissenting views expressed, unlike the art critic in
print. In fact my position was distinctly in the minority on Clayart.
There are some kinds of things that I will not pollute my brain with, I
have a pretty good idea what makes me uncomfortable and if I'm going to
err, I would rather err on the conservative side. Based on the program
description, I wasn't interested. Based on what others that did go
said, I heard nothing that would indicate that I would have been any
less uncomfortable had I gone. That's a personal decision on my part,
someone asked the list for opinions, and I expressed my opinion. I have
never had a problem NOT doing that! :)
Some of the people who were the most vocal in objecting to my position
described elements of the Randall Session that by my personal standard
strengthened my conviction that I was not wrong in choosing not to
attend. Most of those who felt that I was somehow making the wrong
decision focused on the fact that I would make that decision BEFORE
experiencing the session; when in fact almost ALL of the descriptions
of the session that were posted to Clayart only confirmed my decision.
Finally, while I might have an opinion of the appropriateness of
something based on my own value system, I respect the rights of others
to have dissenting opinions and values; I just think that I should be
allowed the same right.
Since by now I think everyone knows where I stand on this, I'm probably
not going to respond to anymore on this.
I appreciate your thoughts on this, you have obviously given it some
serious thought.
Earl Brunner
mailto:bruec@anv.net
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On
Behalf Of Carol Sandberg
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 8:53 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: the Randall Sessions (NCECA 2002)
Earl,
I have taken the time to read your posts about the Randall Session,
which
you did not attend.
With all due respect (because it is obvious you are concerned about
society,
what we teach our children and what we focus upon), I want to share a
thought I had while reading your posts:
Is it not only fair, but also necessary, to inform one's self about a
topic
before coming to a conclusion and launching a negative synopsis?
If an art critic were hired to do a review of a clay one-man show
featuring
the work of Earl Brunner, would you want the critic to write an
interpretation of the body of work without stepping into the gallery?
Suppose you titled the show "Mudworks" in an attempt to playfully engage
the
attention of your potter peers. The art critic, by a twist of fate, is
someone who keeps a fastidious household, and does not like to get her
hands
dirty.
She has an immediate unconscious negative reaction to your show title,
and
decides not to go into the gallery, because she knows she does not want
to
have anything to do with mud or anything "dirty".
Because she "knows" in advance what she is going to experience in that
gallery, she does not go in.
The following day, in the newspaper, her interpretation of the show is
published. It is all negative. She writes that anything made of mud can
have no redeeming value, and that art should be only beautiful and
clean.
She draws a parallel between your choice to use "mud" in your artwork
and
the erosion of society.
By not going into the gallery, she does not see how you transformed the
dirty mud into something worth experiencing.
Regards,
Carol Sandberg
----- Original Message -----
From: "Earl Brunner"
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 8:25 PM
Subject: Re: the Randall Sessions (NCECA 2002) O T
> vince pitelka wrote:
>
> > My quote:
>
> > > Have you hung out in a public school lately? try it, the
de-emphasis
on
> > > "acceptable social behavior" is taking it toll, and doesn't bode
well
for
> > the
> > > future of our society.
> >
> > Good point about the public schools, Earl, but it has absolutely
nothing
to
> > do with John Waters being irreverent and obscene in front of a bunch
of
> > adults. Let's at least stay in an appropriate context.
> > Best wishes -
> > - Vince
> >
>
> Vince,
> But it does have everything to do with the quote that I was responding
to.
Which
> was:
> "Dwiggins, Sandra (NCI)" wrote:
>
> > I think that some of us are too tied to "acceptable social behavior"
because
> > we want to make a living. But, some of us have that "other side"
that
> > doesn't often get out...at least often enough.
> >
>
> I was simply suggesting that in our society today, major erosion of
what
was once
> considered acceptable and normal and appropriate in civilized society
has
taken
> place. Some changes have perhaps been good, but many have not. It
seems
that in
> today's society "anything" goes. The cruder, the more disgusting,
shocking or
> irreverent the better. Since I admittedly have not chosen to view or
hear
any
> thing that John Waters filmed, or said, I can't speak to specifics.
Some
of what
> he says and does may actually have some redeeming quality, I wouldn't
know. Based
> upon the description in the program I elected not to hear him. From
some
of the
> things that people have reported, it is probably just as well. I
haven't
heard
> anything that would have reformed my opinion.
>
> The assistant principal of my elementary school today mentioned a
conference that
> she had with a parent and a student. It seems that the student was
mad at
her
> teacher and wrote some "bad" things about the teacher. If she had
kept
them to her
> self it might have been ok, she was upset with the teacher, but she
elected to
> share the things she wrote with many other students in her class.
>
> In three separate instances with the teacher, the assistant principal,
and
the
> school office manager, she admitted writing the note. She told her
mother
that
> another girl wrote the note. So the assistant principal pulled out
the
note and
> they compared the note to other samples of the students handwriting.
She
wrote the
> note. Mother was than all upset because someone had retrieved the
note
from the
> trash. Not mad at her kid, but mad at the person who took the note
out of
the
> trash.
>
> This perhaps has no direct connection to Waters, I wouldn't presume
to
blame him
> for all of the ills of society. But the trend is unsettling. In
recent
years less
> and less is required or expected from parents, and more and more is
required of the
> schools. They limit what the schools can do, but blame them for the
failures. How
> can schools teach morality? Would you WANT schools to teach morality?
But who is
> teaching it? We are in trouble. We are in big trouble. And much of
it
has to do
> with our expectations. Art is in many ways a reflection of our
society as
a
> whole. If we focus on the crude, the sleaze, the trash, all things of
bad
taste,
> then that is what we will become. There will be more Columbines, more
killings,
> more erosion of values. For what?
> Garbage in, garbage out.
> --
> Earl Brunner
> http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
> mailto:bruec@anv.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
____
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
________________________________________________________________________
______
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Carol Sandberg on mon 25 mar 02
Earl,
I have taken the time to read your posts about the Randall Session, which
you did not attend.
With all due respect (because it is obvious you are concerned about society,
what we teach our children and what we focus upon), I want to share a
thought I had while reading your posts:
Is it not only fair, but also necessary, to inform one's self about a topic
before coming to a conclusion and launching a negative synopsis?
If an art critic were hired to do a review of a clay one-man show featuring
the work of Earl Brunner, would you want the critic to write an
interpretation of the body of work without stepping into the gallery?
Suppose you titled the show "Mudworks" in an attempt to playfully engage the
attention of your potter peers. The art critic, by a twist of fate, is
someone who keeps a fastidious household, and does not like to get her hands
dirty.
She has an immediate unconscious negative reaction to your show title, and
decides not to go into the gallery, because she knows she does not want to
have anything to do with mud or anything "dirty".
Because she "knows" in advance what she is going to experience in that
gallery, she does not go in.
The following day, in the newspaper, her interpretation of the show is
published. It is all negative. She writes that anything made of mud can
have no redeeming value, and that art should be only beautiful and clean.
She draws a parallel between your choice to use "mud" in your artwork and
the erosion of society.
By not going into the gallery, she does not see how you transformed the
dirty mud into something worth experiencing.
Regards,
Carol Sandberg
----- Original Message -----
From: "Earl Brunner"
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 8:25 PM
Subject: Re: the Randall Sessions (NCECA 2002) O T
> vince pitelka wrote:
>
> > My quote:
>
> > > Have you hung out in a public school lately? try it, the de-emphasis
on
> > > "acceptable social behavior" is taking it toll, and doesn't bode well
for
> > the
> > > future of our society.
> >
> > Good point about the public schools, Earl, but it has absolutely nothing
to
> > do with John Waters being irreverent and obscene in front of a bunch of
> > adults. Let's at least stay in an appropriate context.
> > Best wishes -
> > - Vince
> >
>
> Vince,
> But it does have everything to do with the quote that I was responding to.
Which
> was:
> "Dwiggins, Sandra (NCI)" wrote:
>
> > I think that some of us are too tied to "acceptable social behavior"
because
> > we want to make a living. But, some of us have that "other side" that
> > doesn't often get out...at least often enough.
> >
>
> I was simply suggesting that in our society today, major erosion of what
was once
> considered acceptable and normal and appropriate in civilized society has
taken
> place. Some changes have perhaps been good, but many have not. It seems
that in
> today's society "anything" goes. The cruder, the more disgusting,
shocking or
> irreverent the better. Since I admittedly have not chosen to view or hear
any
> thing that John Waters filmed, or said, I can't speak to specifics. Some
of what
> he says and does may actually have some redeeming quality, I wouldn't
know. Based
> upon the description in the program I elected not to hear him. From some
of the
> things that people have reported, it is probably just as well. I haven't
heard
> anything that would have reformed my opinion.
>
> The assistant principal of my elementary school today mentioned a
conference that
> she had with a parent and a student. It seems that the student was mad at
her
> teacher and wrote some "bad" things about the teacher. If she had kept
them to her
> self it might have been ok, she was upset with the teacher, but she
elected to
> share the things she wrote with many other students in her class.
>
> In three separate instances with the teacher, the assistant principal, and
the
> school office manager, she admitted writing the note. She told her mother
that
> another girl wrote the note. So the assistant principal pulled out the
note and
> they compared the note to other samples of the students handwriting. She
wrote the
> note. Mother was than all upset because someone had retrieved the note
from the
> trash. Not mad at her kid, but mad at the person who took the note out of
the
> trash.
>
> This perhaps has no direct connection to Waters, I wouldn't presume to
blame him
> for all of the ills of society. But the trend is unsettling. In recent
years less
> and less is required or expected from parents, and more and more is
required of the
> schools. They limit what the schools can do, but blame them for the
failures. How
> can schools teach morality? Would you WANT schools to teach morality?
But who is
> teaching it? We are in trouble. We are in big trouble. And much of it
has to do
> with our expectations. Art is in many ways a reflection of our society as
a
> whole. If we focus on the crude, the sleaze, the trash, all things of bad
taste,
> then that is what we will become. There will be more Columbines, more
killings,
> more erosion of values. For what?
> Garbage in, garbage out.
> --
> Earl Brunner
> http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
> mailto:bruec@anv.net
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
| |
|
