smoking pots in an electric kiln

updated mon 8 apr 02

Michelle Lowe on tue 2 apr 02

>Hi friends,

In talking with someone (wish I could remember who it was!) at NCECA in KC,
mention was made of a simple smoking technique, involving wrapping a pot in
newspaper, encasing in aluminum foil and firing in an electric kiln, which
ostensibly results in a pitfired sort of look. If someone out there has
tried this technique, I would like to hear a bit more about it, any tips or
information would be great! I will be giving it a try tonight anyway, but
thought I would query for more info as well.


Thanks!
Mish

-----------
Michelle Lowe potter in the Phoenix desert
http://www.desertdragonpottery.com
Mishy@desertdragonpottery.com
mishlowe@amug.org
\|/ |
-O- | |
/|\ | | |
|_|_|
____ |
\ /-----|-----
( )
<__>

Marta Matray Gloviczki on tue 2 apr 02

Michelle Lowe wrote:

>In talking with someone (wish I could remember who it was!) at NCECA in KC,
>mention was made of a simple smoking technique, involving wrapping a pot in
>newspaper, encasing in aluminum foil and firing in an electric kiln, which
>ostensibly results in a pitfired sort of look. >

mishy,
are you sure you dont remember if it was russel?
russel fouts.
www.mypots.com
he is great at it!
regards,
marta

Susan on tue 2 apr 02

won't this ruin your elements?

> From: Michelle Lowe
> Reply-To: Ceramic Arts Discussion List
> Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 08:57:01 -0700
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: smoking pots in an electric kiln
>
>> Hi friends,
>
> In talking with someone (wish I could remember who it was!) at NCECA in KC,
> mention was made of a simple smoking technique, involving wrapping a pot in
> newspaper, encasing in aluminum foil and firing in an electric kiln, which
> ostensibly results in a pitfired sort of look. If someone out there has
> tried this technique, I would like to hear a bit more about it, any tips or
> information would be great! I will be giving it a try tonight anyway, but
> thought I would query for more info as well.
>
>
> Thanks!
> Mish
>
> -----------
> Michelle Lowe potter in the Phoenix desert
> http://www.desertdragonpottery.com
> Mishy@desertdragonpottery.com
> mishlowe@amug.org
> \|/ |
> -O- | |
> /|\ | | |
> |_|_|
> ____ |
> \ /-----|-----
> ( )
> <__>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>

Michelle Lowe on tue 2 apr 02

First reply-
>mishy,
>are you sure you dont remember if it was russel?
>russel fouts.

Bonnie H. emailed me privately saying that she was sure it was Russel, and
it probably was! Thanks for nudging the poor old memory... I think you are
right, and I eagerly await his reply.

and someone else asked...
>won't this ruin your elements?

I'm sure others will respond to this question, and I look forward to
hearing opinions on this also. I suppose the newspaper will affect the
elements to a certain extent, but whoever this was (Russel?) had done it
extensively without a problem. I imagine it doesn't take a lot of paper,
and I know lots of slab sculptures and pieces I fire have wads of paper
inside to support the shape, the fumes are nasty to smell, but my kiln is
in an open-air garage, so I just fire when I don't have to be out there
breathing it.

Mishy


-----------
Michelle Lowe potter in the Phoenix desert
http://www.desertdragonpottery.com
Mishy@desertdragonpottery.com
mishlowe@amug.org
\|/ |
-O- | |
/|\ | | |
|_|_|
____ |
\ /-----|-----
( )
<__>

Valice Raffi on tue 2 apr 02

Hi Mishy,

I got this idea from Russel and hsave done it lots of times. Hasn't done
any damage to my kiln either.

Wrap the piece with a double layer of heavy duty aluminum foil with ONE
piece of newspaper inside the package. (I've tried adding other things like
straw, dung etc., but they haven't produced much of an effect). Make sure
all the edges are well crimped. Fire to ^022.

The smoke stays inside the package. I'm still thinking about ways to use
the foil afterwards - it turns beautiful colors!

have fun!

Valice
in Sacramento

Roger Korn on tue 2 apr 02

You can get away with this just fine, if you do a "normal" firing in between smoke
firings. If you apply ITC 213 to new elements, you don't even need to alternate
"smoke" and "normal" firings. Dripping vegetable oil in through a ceramic tube in a
peep hole (1 drop per second, mas o menos) works well also. Start dripping at about
1600 F.

Roger

Michelle Lowe wrote:

> First reply-
> >mishy,
> >are you sure you dont remember if it was russel?
> >russel fouts.
>
> Bonnie H. emailed me privately saying that she was sure it was Russel, and
> it probably was! Thanks for nudging the poor old memory... I think you are
> right, and I eagerly await his reply.
>
> and someone else asked...
> >won't this ruin your elements?
>
> I'm sure others will respond to this question, and I look forward to
> hearing opinions on this also. I suppose the newspaper will affect the
> elements to a certain extent, but whoever this was (Russel?) had done it
> extensively without a problem. I imagine it doesn't take a lot of paper,
> and I know lots of slab sculptures and pieces I fire have wads of paper
> inside to support the shape, the fumes are nasty to smell, but my kiln is
> in an open-air garage, so I just fire when I don't have to be out there
> breathing it.
>
> Mishy
>
> -----------
> Michelle Lowe potter in the Phoenix desert
> http://www.desertdragonpottery.com
> Mishy@desertdragonpottery.com
> mishlowe@amug.org
> \|/ |
> -O- | |
> /|\ | | |
> |_|_|
> ____ |
> \ /-----|-----
> ( )
> <__>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.

--
Roger Korn
McKay Creek Ceramics
In AZ: PO Box 463
4215 Culpepper Ranch Rd
Rimrock, AZ 86335
928-567-5699 <-
In OR: PO Box 436
31330 NW Pacific Ave.
North Plains, OR 97133
503-647-5464

Judith Frederick on tue 2 apr 02

Roger,
What is the oil for?
Judy


>From: Roger Korn
>Reply-To: Ceramic Arts Discussion List
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: Re: smoking pots in an electric kiln
>Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 14:29:42 -0700
>
>You can get away with this just fine, if you do a "normal" firing in
>between smoke
>firings. If you apply ITC 213 to new elements, you don't even need to
>alternate
>"smoke" and "normal" firings. Dripping vegetable oil in through a ceramic
>tube in a
>peep hole (1 drop per second, mas o menos) works well also. Start dripping
>at about
>1600 F.
>
>Roger
>
>Michelle Lowe wrote:
>
> > First reply-
> > >mishy,
> > >are you sure you dont remember if it was russel?
> > >russel fouts.
> >
> > Bonnie H. emailed me privately saying that she was sure it was Russel,
>and
> > it probably was! Thanks for nudging the poor old memory... I think you
>are
> > right, and I eagerly await his reply.
> >
> > and someone else asked...
> > >won't this ruin your elements?
> >
> > I'm sure others will respond to this question, and I look forward to
> > hearing opinions on this also. I suppose the newspaper will affect the
> > elements to a certain extent, but whoever this was (Russel?) had done
>it
> > extensively without a problem. I imagine it doesn't take a lot of
>paper,
> > and I know lots of slab sculptures and pieces I fire have wads of paper
> > inside to support the shape, the fumes are nasty to smell, but my kiln
>is
> > in an open-air garage, so I just fire when I don't have to be out there
> > breathing it.
> >
> > Mishy
> >
> > -----------
> > Michelle Lowe potter in the Phoenix desert
> > http://www.desertdragonpottery.com
> > Mishy@desertdragonpottery.com
> > mishlowe@amug.org
> > \|/ |
> > -O- | |
> > /|\ | | |
> > |_|_|
> > ____ |
> > \ /-----|-----
> > ( )
> > <__>
> >
> >
>______________________________________________________________________________
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
>
>--
>Roger Korn
>McKay Creek Ceramics
>In AZ: PO Box 463
> 4215 Culpepper Ranch Rd
> Rimrock, AZ 86335
> 928-567-5699 <-
>In OR: PO Box 436
> 31330 NW Pacific Ave.
> North Plains, OR 97133
> 503-647-5464
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.


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Michelle Lowe on wed 3 apr 02

Thanks to all who responded about this technique. I went over and read
Russel's description of his process, but I did it a bit differently, here's
my version (so far)

I tried two pieces.
I fired one piece that was unbisqued greenware, nicely burnished, with one
piece of newspaper wrapped around the pot, and two layers of foil, crimped
well all around the outside. The other piece was a thrown bisqued pot, no
terra sig or slip, unburnished, wrapped the same way. I put cone 018 in the
sitter. The greenware, burnished piece is lovely with a mostly black
surface retaining the shine from burnishing. The thrown, bisqued piece has
one little spot of gray on it, but is mostly white with no coloring.

I actually did this firing for an open studio guy who rents space here in
my studio, his was the greenware burnished piece and I think he will be
pleased!






-----------
Michelle Lowe potter in the Phoenix desert
http://www.desertdragonpottery.com
Mishy@desertdragonpottery.com
mishlowe@amug.org
\|/ |
-O- | |
/|\ | | |
|_|_|
____ |
\ /-----|-----
( )
<__>

Olivia T Cavy on wed 3 apr 02

Hi Mishy,

A few years ago I attended a breakout session at NCECA, maybe in
Columbus, OH, which was a follow-up of a Clay Times article about using a
small saggar to do a smoke firing in a bisque kiln. The very short
summary is that the writer of the article said she got better colors if
she fired unbisqued greenware with her vegetation (including sawdust and
whatever). She even used commercial unglazed flowerpots as saggars,
plugging up the holes.

Bonnie

On Wed, 3 Apr 2002 07:11:10 -0700 Michelle Lowe
writes:
> Thanks to all who responded about this technique. I went over and
> read
> Russel's description of his process, but I did it a bit differently,
> here's
> my version (so far)
>
> I tried two pieces.
> I fired one piece that was unbisqued greenware, nicely burnished,
> with one
> piece of newspaper wrapped around the pot, and two layers of foil,
> crimped
> well all around the outside. The other piece was a thrown bisqued
> pot, no
> terra sig or slip, unburnished, wrapped the same way. I put cone 018
> in the
> sitter. The greenware, burnished piece is lovely with a mostly black
> surface retaining the shine from burnishing. The thrown, bisqued
> piece has
> one little spot of gray on it, but is mostly white with no coloring.
>
> I actually did this firing for an open studio guy who rents space
> here in
> my studio, his was the greenware burnished piece and I think he will
> be
> pleased!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----------
> Michelle Lowe potter in the Phoenix desert
> http://www.desertdragonpottery.com
> Mishy@desertdragonpottery.com
> mishlowe@amug.org
> \|/ |
> -O- | |
> /|\ | | |
> |_|_|
> ____ |
> \ /-----|-----
> ( )
> <__>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________________
_____
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
> subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.

Bonnie D. Hellman, Pittsburgh, PA

PA work email: oliviatcavy@juno.com
PA home email: mou10man@sgi.net (that's the number 10 in the middle of
the letters)


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Michelle Lowe on wed 3 apr 02

Resending this message, I didn't see it posted today, not sure why?

Thanks to all who responded about this technique. I went over and read
Russel's description of his process, but I did it a bit differently, here's
my version (so far)

I tried two pieces.
I fired one piece that was unbisqued greenware, nicely burnished, with one
piece of newspaper wrapped around the pot, and two layers of foil, crimped
well all around the outside. The other piece was a thrown bisqued pot, no
terra sig or slip, unburnished, wrapped the same way. I put cone 018 in the
sitter. The greenware, burnished piece is lovely with a mostly black
surface retaining the shine from burnishing. The thrown, bisqued piece has
one little spot of gray on it, but is mostly white with no coloring.

I actually did this firing for an open studio guy who rents space here in
my studio, his was the greenware burnished piece and I think he will be
pleased!






-----------
Michelle Lowe potter in the Phoenix desert
http://www.desertdragonpottery.com
Mishy@desertdragonpottery.com
mishlowe@amug.org
\|/ |
-O- | |
/|\ | | |
|_|_|
____ |
\ /-----|-----
( )
<__>

Roger Korn on wed 3 apr 02

Hi Michelle,

You done good! ^018 is optimum for "setting" the black while not losing the
burnish. Here's Kayo's latest piece bisqued to ^018 and then sawdust/steel
wool/copper sulfate fired to a lower temperature.

[Image]

Roger

Michelle Lowe wrote:

> Thanks to all who responded about this technique. I went over and read
> Russel's description of his process, but I did it a bit differently, here's
> my version (so far)
>
> I tried two pieces.
> I fired one piece that was unbisqued greenware, nicely burnished, with one
> piece of newspaper wrapped around the pot, and two layers of foil, crimped
> well all around the outside. The other piece was a thrown bisqued pot, no
> terra sig or slip, unburnished, wrapped the same way. I put cone 018 in the
> sitter. The greenware, burnished piece is lovely with a mostly black
> surface retaining the shine from burnishing. The thrown, bisqued piece has
> one little spot of gray on it, but is mostly white with no coloring.
>
> I actually did this firing for an open studio guy who rents space here in
> my studio, his was the greenware burnished piece and I think he will be
> pleased!
>
> -----------
> Michelle Lowe potter in the Phoenix desert
> http://www.desertdragonpottery.com
> Mishy@desertdragonpottery.com
> mishlowe@amug.org
> \|/ |
> -O- | |
> /|\ | | |
> |_|_|
> ____ |
> \ /-----|-----
> ( )
> <__>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.

--
Roger Korn
McKay Creek Ceramics
In AZ: PO Box 463
4215 Culpepper Ranch Rd
Rimrock, AZ 86335
928-567-5699 <-
In OR: PO Box 436
31330 NW Pacific Ave.
North Plains, OR 97133
503-647-5464

Tom's E-mail on wed 3 apr 02

I've recently run into an old article in CM that described smoke firing in a
metal garbage can to cone 05. I did a one day work shop with Russel using
aluminum foil fired to approximately 1000 F. Obviously Cone 05 is higher and
to my thinking desirable because it is higher. I recently bought a medium
sized garbage can but am in the process of getting ready for a show. I'll
let you know about the garbage can fired within an electric kiln shortly.
Tom Sawyer
tsawyer@cfl.rr.com

Michelle Lowe on wed 3 apr 02

At 12:05 AM 4/4/2002 +0200, you wrote:
>Mishi, how could you forget.
>
>It's me and I'll tell you anything you want to know.

Russel, how could I forget it was you?! I don't know, maybe it was all
that sleep deprivation or that bottle of wine Friday night. Naaah, it was
the 21 hour drive home, I'm sure. Anyway, my memory has been restored, and
as I reported (twice today, sorry for that), I had some good success with
my first try. I read your web site description today, with the layers of
terra sig, and multiple firings, and we will be doing some more
experimenting here for sure!

Regards,
Mishy


-----------
Michelle Lowe potter in the Phoenix desert
http://www.desertdragonpottery.com
Mishy@desertdragonpottery.com
mishlowe@amug.org
\|/ |
-O- | |
/|\ | | |
|_|_|
____ |
\ /-----|-----
( )
<__>

Michelle Lowe on wed 3 apr 02

At 11:31 AM 4/3/2002 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi Michelle,
>
>You done good! ^018 is optimum for "setting" the black while not losing the
>burnish. Here's Kayo's latest piece bisqued to ^018 and then sawdust/steel
>wool/copper sulfate fired to a lower temperature.
>
>[Image]
>

Roger sent me the image privately, wowow, what a gorgeous
surface. Wondering though, what sort of firing 'container', a pit? a
trashcan? saggar?


-----------
Michelle Lowe potter in the Phoenix desert
http://www.desertdragonpottery.com
Mishy@desertdragonpottery.com
mishlowe@amug.org
\|/ |
-O- | |
/|\ | | |
|_|_|
____ |
\ /-----|-----
( )
<__>

Russel Fouts on thu 4 apr 02

Michelle,

By the way, I give a two day workshop on this and my decorating
techniques called "Yes You Can!" in case anyone is interested around the
time of NCECA San Diego.

http://users.skynet.be/russel.fouts/PawleysIslandWorkshop2.htm

I've done these for Lori Leary, Lisa Skeen at Rockingham Community
College, Veena Ragavan at Lee Arts Center, Cheryl Litman at Deborah
Goletz' Studio, etc. I'll be doing one in the fall in Amsterdam and
possibly one in England this summer.

[SHAMELESSSELFPROMOTIONMODE=OFF]

This is what I'm doing.

I'm smoking my pieces with less than a single sheet of newspaper in a
tightly sealed aluminum foil saggar in my electric kiln. (Oh, My!)

The foil is catering strength and I use two sheets so as not to tear too
easily. You can get a heavier grade in the states than I've found here
so you might be able to get away with only one layer but I'd double them
up until you get the hang of wrapping. If I get a tear, I start over
with new foil. The object is to keep as much smoke in as possible.

If you do get a hole in the foil, you not only let the smoke out but you
let air in. Also, if the newspaper gets enough air, you don't get smoke
but fire. So you'll get very little smoking and the fire in the saggar
could raise the temperature in the saggar above 650c / 1173f / ^022 and
start to break down the aluminum foil.

The foil saggers are very tightly sealed with multiple folds to keep the
smoke in. The amount of smoke that escapes the saggar depends on the
amount of paper. Under normal smoking, extremely little smoke gets out.
I have an Environvent and don't smoke more than a few pieces at a time
so can work in my studio while doing a normal smoking.

The foil starts to break up and open up and let the smoke out at around
650c / 1173f / ^022 so you don't want to go above that. When the foil
breaks up, it turns to flakes which can be very easily distributed
around the kiln and possibly onto the elements. You want be careful with
this.

Because of heat work, holding the kiln at smoking temperature for more
than a couple of hours could cause the actual temperature to go above
650c / 1173f / ^022 so you want to be aware of this as well.

Most oxides don't do anything below 800c / 1485f / ^015 except make
black smudges so they're pretty useless with this method.

I only smoke with newspaper because it's plentiful in our house (4
papers a day in three languages) and easily controlled. I'm finding at
the moment that less than 1/4 of a normal page gives me more smoke than
I want. I avoid the magazines and color sections and the mailing labels
because they seem to leave a resinous deposit that I don't like.

The newspaper is usually burned completely leaving newspaper charcoal,
no ash (no fire).

The smoke is very localized, it doesn't move much. You won't get the
wavy smoke patterns that you get from regular pit firing. If you place a
strip of newsprint on a pot and hold it against the pot with the foil or
with gravity, it will leave a print of that strip with a fuzzy outline.
It can be that exact.

With this method "Maria Martinez Blacks" are so easy as to be BORING.
Just put more paper in, turn up your vent and cook for a couple hours.
This will produce noticeable smoke (smell able, not visible) so it's
better to leave the studio. I do this over-night and open up the studio.

With the smoking, the temperature is not important, paper burns at 223c
/ 451f. You could do the normal smoking in your kitchen oven. You
basically want to bring the paper above 223c / 451f (the burning
temperature of paper) and hold it there for a while. The longer in the
smoke the more smoke is absorbed. If you have a kiln controller that can
go to, say, 250c / 500f and hold there for a certain amount of time, you
can control this very accurately.

I don't have a controller like this. I can only control the final temp
and how long it takes to get there. I set mine to go to 500c and shut
off. I control the amount of time it takes to get there by the
percentage of power. 100% takes about 1.5 hr to get to 500c and 1.5 too
cool (less smoke). 50% takes about 3 hrs to get to 500c and 3 hrs to
cool (more smoke). The "smoking zone" is from 223c / 451f to 500c and
back down to 223c / 451f. Or until your combustible runs out.

The foil breaking up can be used for it's own effect. As I said above,
when the foil starts to break up above 650c / 1173f / ^022 it opens up
and starts to let oxygen back into the saggar, which will start to
re-oxidize the pot, removing smoke from the piece near the hole. If
you've planned the amount of combustible to run out before this point,
no more smoke will escape so there is no risk there. Just be careful
when you remove the packets so as not to disturb the foil flakes too
much. Be sure to vacuum the kiln.

I know that Valice is using this method in a gas kiln and uses the foil
to keep the oxides, combustibles and salts close to the pot. She smoke
fires much higher than I do and fully expects the foil to break up.

Also, there is no reason why you cannot use this method to smoke a
previously glazed and fired piece. Hmmmmmm!

Endless possibilities but this ought to be enough to get you started.

Enjoy

Russel
--

Russel Fouts
Mes Potes & Mes Pots
Brussels, Belgium
Tel: +32 2 223 02 75
Mobile: +32 476 55 38 75
Email: Russel.Fouts@Skynet.be
Http://www.mypots.com
http://www.Japan-Net.ne.jp/~iwcat

"There is a theory which states that
if ever anyone discovers exactly what
the universe is for and why it's here,
it will instantly disappear and be
replaced by something even more bizzarly
inexplicable."

"There is another theory which states
that this has already happened!"

Douglas Adams' The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy

Roger Korn on thu 4 apr 02

Hi Michelle,

The firing container is an oildrum with 3/8" holes about 8" on center in the sides
and bottom. The drum sits on an old water heater base about 4" off the ground to
allow combustion air to enter from below as well as from the sides. The piece is
placed on a rack on bricks about 3" above the bottom. Sawdust is poured around the
pot, with steel wool in contact, copper sulfate-soaked sawdust (dry), and
salt/copper sulfate mixture near the pot mixed with the sawdust. The sawdust covers
the pot by about 8". Firing consists of igniting the top sawdust with a propane
torch until a steady burn is achieved, then the container is covered with a piece
of metal. Combustion control consists of plugging and unplugging holes with clay,
igniting slow burning regions with a propane torch through the holes, and blowing
into the holes with a hair dryer or vacuum cleaner. The firing takes about 4 hours.
We achieve similar results in pit firing with the salt and copper sulfate in
containers near the pot.

We'll present a workshop in the near future, place and date TBA.

Roger

Michelle Lowe wrote:

> At 11:31 AM 4/3/2002 -0700, you wrote:
> >Hi Michelle,
> >
> >You done good! ^018 is optimum for "setting" the black while not losing the
> >burnish. Here's Kayo's latest piece bisqued to ^018 and then sawdust/steel
> >wool/copper sulfate fired to a lower temperature.
> >
> >[Image]
> >
>
> Roger sent me the image privately, wowow, what a gorgeous
> surface. Wondering though, what sort of firing 'container', a pit? a
> trashcan? saggar?
>
> -----------
> Michelle Lowe potter in the Phoenix desert
> http://www.desertdragonpottery.com
> Mishy@desertdragonpottery.com
> mishlowe@amug.org
> \|/ |
> -O- | |
> /|\ | | |
> |_|_|
> ____ |
> \ /-----|-----
> ( )
> <__>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.

--
Roger Korn
McKay Creek Ceramics
In AZ: PO Box 463
4215 Culpepper Ranch Rd
Rimrock, AZ 86335
928-567-5699 <-
In OR: PO Box 436
31330 NW Pacific Ave.
North Plains, OR 97133
503-647-5464

Russel Fouts on thu 4 apr 02

Mishi, how could you forget.

It's me and I'll tell you anything you want to know.

Russel

-----------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 08:57:01 -0700
From: Michelle Lowe
Subject: smoking pots in an electric kiln

>Hi friends,

In talking with someone (wish I could remember who it was!) at NCECA in
KC,
mention was made of a simple smoking technique, involving wrapping a pot
in
newspaper, encasing in aluminum foil and firing in an electric kiln,
which
ostensibly results in a pitfired sort of look. If someone out there has
tried this technique, I would like to hear a bit more about it, any tips
or
information would be great! I will be giving it a try tonight anyway,
but
thought I would query for more info as well.


Thanks!
Mish

-----------
--

Russel Fouts
Mes Potes & Mes Pots
Brussels, Belgium
Tel: +32 2 223 02 75
Mobile: +32 476 55 38 75
Http://www.mypots.com
http://www.Japan-Net.ne.jp/~iwcat

"There is a theory which states that
if ever anyone discovers exactly what
the universe is for and why it's here,
it will instantly disappear and be
replaced by something even more bizzarly
inexplicable."

"There is another theory which states
that this has already happened!"

Douglas Adams' The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy

phil davenport on thu 4 apr 02

Michelle:

I teach in a high school and here is what we do...

We use the metal cans that pop corn come in.
The pots can be thrown or hand-built.
We have used terra sig on the unfired pots and polish with a stone OR you can
bisque fire to cone 04 then coat the pots with terra sig and polish with a soft
cloth.
The pots are then wrapped in newspaper and place inside the can.
The can is then placed in the kiln and a broken kiln shelf is placed on the can
lid.
The kiln is fired to cone 019.
We do have vents over the kiln and I run them anytime I fire the kiln.
Because the can is fairly airtight the clay comes out a deep black.
I have done pit firings and have just recently started using the above described
process and I would say that this new technique is easier, and more predictable and
so far I haven't had any pots break.

Hope this helps...

Phil Davenport
Richardson, TX

Michelle Lowe wrote:

> >Hi friends,
>
> In talking with someone (wish I could remember who it was!) at NCECA in KC,
> mention was made of a simple smoking technique, involving wrapping a pot in
> newspaper, encasing in aluminum foil and firing in an electric kiln, which
> ostensibly results in a pitfired sort of look. I
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.

norman cohen on fri 5 apr 02

phil: i also have an electric kiln and have avoided smoke firing because
of assumed kiln damage. can you report on any such adverse kiln reactions
with this technique? norm
----- Original Message -----
From: "phil davenport"
To:
Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 10:44 PM
Subject: Re: smoking pots in an electric kiln


> Michelle:
>
> I teach in a high school and here is what we do...
>
> We use the metal cans that pop corn come in.
> The pots can be thrown or hand-built.
> We have used terra sig on the unfired pots and polish with a stone OR you
can
> bisque fire to cone 04 then coat the pots with terra sig and polish with a
soft
> cloth.
> The pots are then wrapped in newspaper and place inside the can.
> The can is then placed in the kiln and a broken kiln shelf is placed on
the can
> lid.
> The kiln is fired to cone 019.
> We do have vents over the kiln and I run them anytime I fire the kiln.
> Because the can is fairly airtight the clay comes out a deep black.
> I have done pit firings and have just recently started using the above
described
> process and I would say that this new technique is easier, and more
predictable and
> so far I haven't had any pots break.
>
> Hope this helps...
>
> Phil Davenport
> Richardson, TX
>
> Michelle Lowe wrote:
>
> > >Hi friends,
> >
> > In talking with someone (wish I could remember who it was!) at NCECA in
KC,
> > mention was made of a simple smoking technique, involving wrapping a pot
in
> > newspaper, encasing in aluminum foil and firing in an electric kiln,
which
> > ostensibly results in a pitfired sort of look. I
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.

Carole Rishel on fri 5 apr 02

So what kind of clay are y'all using when you fire at such low temperatur=
es?

Carole Rishel
kallahcee@msn.com
Smithville, TX =20
=20
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Korn
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 3:14 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: smoking pots in an electric kiln
=20
Hi Michelle,

You done good! ^018 is optimum for "setting" the black while not losing t=
he
burnish. Here's Kayo's latest piece bisqued to ^018 and then sawdust/stee=
l
wool/copper sulfate fired to a lower temperature.

[Image]

Roger

Michelle Lowe wrote:

> Thanks to all who responded about this technique. I went over and read
> Russel's description of his process, but I did it a bit differently, he=
re's
> my version (so far)
>
> I tried two pieces.
> I fired one piece that was unbisqued greenware, nicely burnished, with =
one
> piece of newspaper wrapped around the pot, and two layers of foil, crim=
ped
> well all around the outside. The other piece was a thrown bisqued pot, =
no
> terra sig or slip, unburnished, wrapped the same way. I put cone 018 in=
the
> sitter. The greenware, burnished piece is lovely with a mostly black
> surface retaining the shine from burnishing. The thrown, bisqued piece =
has
> one little spot of gray on it, but is mostly white with no coloring.
>
> I actually did this firing for an open studio guy who rents space here =
in
> my studio, his was the greenware burnished piece and I think he will be
> pleased!
>
> -----------
> Michelle Lowe potter in the Phoenix desert
> http://www.desertdragonpottery.com
> Mishy@desertdragonpottery.com
> mishlowe@amug.org
> \|/ |
> -O- | |
> /|\ | | |
> |_|_|
> ____ |
> \ /-----|-----
> ( )
> <__>
>
> _______________________________________________________________________=
_______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pcl=
ink.com.

--
Roger Korn
McKay Creek Ceramics
In AZ: PO Box 463
4215 Culpepper Ranch Rd
Rimrock, AZ 86335
928-567-5699 <-
In OR: PO Box 436
31330 NW Pacific Ave.
North Plains, OR 97133
503-647-5464

_________________________________________________________________________=
_____
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org

You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/

Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclin=
k.com.

Roger Korn on sat 6 apr 02

You might try a gasket made of ceramic fiber such as Kaowool as a seal between the
body and lid of your saggar. Or maybe a coil of wadding.

Hope this helps,

Roger

Gail Dapogny wrote:

> Phil,
> Do you think a stoneware saggar with a decent fitting lid would work
> similarly? (I have one.) I was wondering about wrapping the ware in foil
> since my stoneware sagger might be slightly less airtight than the metal
> can, but maybe not necessary.
> Thanks for all your patient replies. Gail
>
> >I don't see why you would need to wrap the pots if you are using the metal
> >cans as
> >saggars. The lid seals the can--can't say 100 % sealed--and you have a good
> >reduction atmosphere inside the can. As far as seeing smoke coming out of the
> >kiln--I haven't seen any evidence of that and we do have vents over the
> >kiln and
> >run them all of the time.
> >
> >Hope this helps.
> >
> >Phil Davenport
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.

--
Roger Korn
McKay Creek Ceramics
In AZ: PO Box 463
4215 Culpepper Ranch Rd
Rimrock, AZ 86335
928-567-5699 <-
In OR: PO Box 436
31330 NW Pacific Ave.
North Plains, OR 97133
503-647-5464

Gail Dapogny on sat 6 apr 02

Russell and Phil, I have a question about each of your smoke-firing
techniques. .
Would it be possible to use some saggers in the electric kiln with the
aluminum foil/newspaper wrapped pots inside? That is, would you get
similar smoke effects? In such a situation would the smoke be less evident
but still effective? Since I am in a guild, I am concerned about alarming
people in the building with excessive smoke, yet I'd love to try your
process. Also, would you keep vents open in this situation?
Thanks in advance.
---Gail



Gail Dapogny
1154 Olden Road
Ann Arbor, MI 48103-3005
(734) 665-9816
gdapogny@umich.edu

Russel Fouts on sat 6 apr 02

Carole,

>> So what kind of clay are y'all using when you fire at such low temperatures? <<

It doesn't matter really, the clay is bisqued first at what ever
temperature you normally bisque, then usually smoke fired at a lower
temperature.

Mine is an earthenware that I bisque to 1000c (but it will go as high as
1200c)

People in my workshops have used everthing from earthenware to raku clay
to porcelain. Each reacts differently to the smoke.

If you don't want to bisque first you can accept fragile, barely
cintered pops (ok in lots of cultures). Or find a clay that will
"bisque" at really low temps. I don't know of any but clay is such a
wonderfully variable material that I'm sure they must exist.

And by the way, to answer your other question. There is no workshop
organised around the San Diego NCECA....yet. If somebody wants to
organise one I'm willing. Locations aren't limited to San Diego though.
To get to San Diego from Belgium, I'll surely have to fly through NY,
DC, Maybe Los Angeles. It's rarely a direct flight from Belgium to
anywhere in the states.

Russel

--

Russel Fouts
Mes Potes & Mes Pots
Brussels, Belgium
Tel: +32 2 223 02 75
Mobile: +32 476 55 38 75
Http://www.mypots.com
http://www.Japan-Net.ne.jp/~iwcat

"There is a theory which states that
if ever anyone discovers exactly what
the universe is for and why it's here,
it will instantly disappear and be
replaced by something even more bizzarly
inexplicable."

"There is another theory which states
that this has already happened!"

Douglas Adams' The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy

phil davenport on sat 6 apr 02

Norman:

When I do this type of firing:
I do not put the peep hole plugs in.
I will do a regular bisque or glaze firing with the same kiln.
I do not do a large amount of firings using this technique unless I space then out
and do some bisque or glaze firing in-between.
I have not seen any evidence of smoking inside the kiln or any residue from the
newspaper.
With the first firing you will have some residue from the paint that is on the
metal cans then nothing after that.
I was concerned with a possible melt down, of the cans, but I fire only to cone 019
and haven't hand any problems.
I have used sawdust, a very small amount. I placed one or two pots inside one of
the metal cans and about a handful of sawdust. The results were great--good deep
blacks considering the small amount of material used.

I hope this helps.

Phil Davenport

norman cohen wrote:

> phil: i also have an electric kiln and have avoided smoke firing because
> of assumed kiln damage. can you report on any such adverse kiln reactions
> with this technique? norm
> ----- Original Message -----

Valice Raffi on sat 6 apr 02

Gail,

when the foil is tightly crimped, you shouldn't have any smoke escaping. I
don't think I've ever smelled any smoke when firing in the foil saggar.

As Russel explained it to me, the foil is doubled in case it decomposes in
the firing - you'll still have the smoke contained.

The way I seal it is to bring the four edges (from doubling) of the foil
together flatly, like stacking paper. Then I fold about a half inch (or 1
mm) over a couple of times, pressing hard all along the edge on each
folding. If you sew, its the same process as making a hem, but folded
several times.

To make a saggar larger than the size of the foil you have; take four
sheets of foil, bring the four sheets together, fold several times pressing
each time, then open it up so you now have doubled foil sheets with the
seam down the middle. You can add as many pieces as you need to envelop
the piece. I've fired an 18" high piece using this method. You could go
larger, but that's how tall my kiln is!

Just make sure to crimp well along all the seams.

good luck!

Valice
in Sacramento

Valice Raffi on sat 6 apr 02

>So what kind of clay are y'all using when you fire at such low temperatures?
>

Carol,

I've used a variety of clays; Imco's: Sculpture 412, ^o6 Buff, Navajo
Wheel, Reeves Porcelain and any other clays I've had around. Bisqued them
as usual, then smoked 'em.

This is NOT for functional ware!

Valice
in Sacramento

phil davenport on sat 6 apr 02

Gail:

I don't see why you would need to wrap the pots if you are using the metal cans as
saggars. The lid seals the can--can't say 100 % sealed--and you have a good
reduction atmosphere inside the can. As far as seeing smoke coming out of the
kiln--I haven't seen any evidence of that and we do have vents over the kiln and
run them all of the time.

Hope this helps.

Phil Davenport

Gail Dapogny wrote:

> Russell and Phil, I have a question about each of your smoke-firing
> techniques. .
> Would it be possible to use some saggers in the electric kiln with the
> aluminum foil/newspaper wrapped pots inside? That is, would you get
> similar smoke effects? In such a situation would the smoke be less evident

Gail Dapogny on sat 6 apr 02

Phil,
Do you think a stoneware saggar with a decent fitting lid would work
similarly? (I have one.) I was wondering about wrapping the ware in foil
since my stoneware sagger might be slightly less airtight than the metal
can, but maybe not necessary.
Thanks for all your patient replies. Gail

>I don't see why you would need to wrap the pots if you are using the metal
>cans as
>saggars. The lid seals the can--can't say 100 % sealed--and you have a good
>reduction atmosphere inside the can. As far as seeing smoke coming out of the
>kiln--I haven't seen any evidence of that and we do have vents over the
>kiln and
>run them all of the time.
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>Phil Davenport

Russel Fouts on sun 7 apr 02

Gail,

>> Russell and Phil, I have a question about each of your smoke-firing techniques. Would it be possible to use some saggers in the electric kiln with the aluminum foil/newspaper wrapped pots inside? That is, would you get similar smoke effects? In such a situation would the smoke be less evident but still effective? Since I am in a guild, I am concerned about alarming people in the building with excessive smoke, yet I'd love to try your process. Also, would you keep vents open in this situation? <<

Really, with the aluminum foil sagger method I use, you won't be using
enough paper to make visible smoke. One 30c x 30c piece of newspaper for
for a 30c diameteter plate is the most you will use. If you want more
smoke (really black), smoke this longer. You will actually find that you
want much less paper. No one really believes me until they see it for
themselves but "you need a lot less paper than you think".

I do recommend that WHATEVER kind of firing you're doing, that your kiln
is properly vented.

Your biggest problem with your guild will probably be getting permission
to fire a kiln to 500c with just a few pots in it.

If they have a test kiln, use that. OR use your oven at home or maybe a
toaster oven on the back porch or a barbeque if you can control it and
keep the temperature below 650c

Good luck

Russel


--

Russel Fouts
Mes Potes & Mes Pots
Brussels, Belgium
Tel: +32 2 223 02 75
Mobile: +32 476 55 38 75
Email: Russel.Fouts@Skynet.be
Http://www.mypots.com
http://www.Japan-Net.ne.jp/~iwcat

"There is a theory which states that
if ever anyone discovers exactly what
the universe is for and why it's here,
it will instantly disappear and be
replaced by something even more bizzarly
inexplicable."

"There is another theory which states
that this has already happened!"

Douglas Adams' The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy

phil davenport on sun 7 apr 02

The gasket idea sounds great and I also believe that by wrapping the pots in foil you
have eliminated 100% of the problem of smoke. The saggar would allow you to put
several pots in a small area and any escaping smoke or ash would be contained in the
container.

Someone mentioned the book by/about Jim Watkins (Texas potter)--I attended one of his
workshops and learned A LOT. The book is a very good resource on this technique and
would be worth the money.

Hope this helps.

Phil Davenport

Roger Korn wrote:

> You might try a gasket made of ceramic fiber such as Kaowool as a seal between the
> body and lid of your saggar. Or maybe a coil of wadding.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Roger
>
> Gail Dapogny wrote:
>
> > Phil,
> > Do you think a stoneware saggar with a decent fitting lid would work
> > similarly? (I have one.) I was wondering about wrapping the ware in foil
> > since my stoneware sagger might be slightly less airtight than the metal
> > can, but maybe not necessary.
> > Thanks for all your patient replies. Gail

John Baymore on sun 7 apr 02

OK...... =


Every time I see this particular message header I just can't stop having
that blues rock song "Smokin' in the Boy's Room" pop into my head .

Anyone up for doing a "Wierd AL' type treatment to the original lyrics? =

Love to see them . Russell could then use it as his theme song at his=

workshops .

The other image that just seems to come unbidden is the late Gilda Radner=

of Saturday Night Live fame ...... (as "Emily Latella", I think) ........=

going off on a virulent rant as a guest editorial on a TV news show about=

how this discussion list should not be promoting the use of illegal drugs=

in ANY location .

Sorry....... not enough sleep last night, I guess. It just came to mind
. I'll shut up now.

Best,

..............................john

John Baymore
River Bend Pottery
22 Riverbend Way
Wilton, NH 03086 USA

603-654-2752 (s)
800-900-1110 (s)

JohnBaymore.com

JBaymore@compuserve.com

"DATES SET: Earth, Water, and Fire Noborigama Woodfiring Workshop Augu=
st
16-25, 2002"