Earl Brunner on sun 7 apr 02
Whenever lead poisoning comes up, I can't help but think back to my childhood. We spent several years in Western Samoa. They used a lot of corrugated tin/iron roofing in the non-native housing. The sheets of tinned metal were
nailed down with nails using lead washers (I would guess for a watertight seal). We used to find them on the ground, and lead being soft, used to chew on them with our teeth....
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
mailto:bruec@anv.net
Marianne Lombardo on sun 7 apr 02
Yesterday, I was listening to the radio talk about the possibility of =
Beethoven's death caused by poisoning from drinking wine from lead =
crystal wine glasses.
Some research about lead poisoning on the Internet also suggests not =
using opened food cans to store the remaining food. I don't understand =
that one, because how could there be lead in food cans.
Previously, I didn't believe the lead in glazes could really do much =
damage, but now I am wondering and I am going to explore this topic =
more.
There would have to be a large difference between daily use and =
occasional use of dinnerware with lead as far as poisoning goes, but as =
potters, I can see a need for us to be aware of and more educated about =
such possible dangers.
Thanks for the replies about the availability of lead testing kits. =
Something else I didn't know. =20
Marianne Lombardo
Omemee, Ontario, Canada
...every day I get wiser: I find out there is more I don't know...
Philip Poburka on sun 7 apr 02
Ohhhh...and there is a kind of 'sweetness' with the white oxide if I
remember too...and something a little like 'msg'...or am I confuseing this
with some other dim memory of incidental childhood mastications...?
Phil
Las Vegas...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Earl Brunner"
To:
Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2002 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: Lead Poisoning
> Whenever lead poisoning comes up, I can't help but think back to my
childhood. We spent several years in Western Samoa. They used a lot of
corrugated tin/iron roofing in the non-native housing. The sheets of tinned
metal were
> nailed down with nails using lead washers (I would guess for a watertight
seal). We used to find them on the ground, and lead being soft, used to
chew on them with our teeth....
>
> --
> Earl Brunner
> http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
> mailto:bruec@anv.net
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Susan on sun 7 apr 02
>
> Some research about lead poisoning on the Internet also suggests not using
> opened food cans to store the remaining food. I don't understand that one,
> because how could there be lead in food cans.
>
possibly there could be lead in the soldering of the cans?
Gavin Stairs on sun 7 apr 02
At 09:39 AM 07/04/2002, you wrote:
>Yesterday, I was listening to the radio talk about the possibility of =
>Beethoven's death caused by poisoning from drinking wine from lead =
>crystal wine glasses.
>
>Some research about lead poisoning on the Internet also suggests not =
>using opened food cans to store the remaining food. I don't understand =
>that one, because how could there be lead in food cans.
It's much less common now, maybe even illegal, but "tin" cans used to be
soldered with lead solder. So the small seam of solder down the side of
the can could leach lead into the food, especially after the can is opened,
when oxygen can get in.
Gavin
Ditmar on sun 7 apr 02
Cans aren't soldered anymore, lead has been discontinued for 10 years or so.
The lead in cans info is most likely outdated. Though there may be canned
import foods.
( Anal government lead rules and regulations are making it more difficult
for stained glass makers. Sure isn't much food contact there ! )
Ditmar
----- Original Message -----
From: "Susan"
To:
Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2002 6:33 AM
Subject: Re: Lead Poisoning
> >
> > Some research about lead poisoning on the Internet also suggests not
using
> > opened food cans to store the remaining food. I don't understand that
one,
> > because how could there be lead in food cans.
> >
> possibly there could be lead in the soldering of the cans?
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
Philip Poburka on sun 7 apr 02
Moisture...and duration of contact, are important factors.
You could likely eat on or from, 'lead' plates and bowls, if the food were
(truely) 'dry'...and or if you were 'fast'...without compliant.
My understanding is that 'leftovers' are more a problem than is the 'Supper'
so far as Glazes...the time the food is in Contact with the Glaze...
Decanters for Alcohol as allow contact lasting years even...long
'duration'...verses a Glass for serving of Wine or what...brief contat
duration...
When I put 'leftovers' in a Ceramic Bowl...I line it with 'Handy-Wrap'...
Ron Roy was kind enough to educate me on the premis that my cone 'ten'
Glazes may not be so benign as I had supposed. So I err on the side of
prudence now.
And...I find he is correct too from some actual inadvertant experiments...
My girlfriend had put a leftover Salad with a 'Vinigrette' dressing in a
nice cone 'ten' Bowl of mine, in the 'fridge, overnight...I did not know she
had done this...next day, I taste it, and definite 'metallic' and other
unhappy flavors...gave it the heave-ho...
Not good.
Phil
Las Vegas...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marianne Lombardo"
To:
Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2002 6:39 AM
Subject: Lead Poisoning
Yesterday, I was listening to the radio talk about the possibility of
Beethoven's death caused by poisoning from drinking wine from lead crystal
wine glasses.
Some research about lead poisoning on the Internet also suggests not using
opened food cans to store the remaining food. I don't understand that one,
because how could there be lead in food cans.
Previously, I didn't believe the lead in glazes could really do much damage,
but now I am wondering and I am going to explore this topic more.
There would have to be a large difference between daily use and occasional
use of dinnerware with lead as far as poisoning goes, but as potters, I can
see a need for us to be aware of and more educated about such possible
dangers.
Thanks for the replies about the availability of lead testing kits.
Something else I didn't know.
Marianne Lombardo
Omemee, Ontario, Canada
...every day I get wiser: I find out there is more I don't know...
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Janet Kaiser on sun 7 apr 02
Yet another example of "We were only talking about this today" and
then up it pops on Clayart (or vice versa)! Apparently one of the
early Arctic expeditions got stuck by the weather and died one by one.
Not of exposure or hunger, but from lead poisoning. They were living
off tinned food. There were high levels of lead and arsenic in old
cans. Modern canning methods are safer, but there was a recent "scare"
following the amount of heavy metals which had been measured in
certain tinned (canned) tomatoes. As a result, a couple of
supermarkets in the UK had to withdraw their stock last year. Or was
it the year before?
When I was small my mother taught me never use a metal spoon to scrape
out food out of a tin and preferably use water to wash out the last
bits. Always use a wooden or plastic implement if you have to scrape.
I still do that. Also check the tin with acidic foods like tomatoes
before using them to cook or eat... If there are black spots around
the inside of the tin, bin the contents.
According to an article I read some time ago, the highest levels of
lead to be found in NY city were in the old stair-wells of brown-stone
houses even before lead-free petrol became the norm. All that old lead
paint was degrading and it was far more hazardous for kids playing in
the houses than out on the streets! The original study of lead in
young children prompted the US government to introduce anti-lead laws
because they presumed it was the traffic causing high levels... It was
some years later they found the main cause was much nearer home.
As for Beethoven suffering from lead poisoning from wine leaching
glass... I take those sort of claims with a healthy dose of
scepticism. Lead was in wig and face powder (used by men and women),
creams, cosmetics, many types of over the counter medicines, including
"cures" for venereal disease... It was also present in pewter eating
and drinking vessels, paint, anti-bug preparations, water pipes...
With the huge amounts of lead in daily use, it is ridiculous to say he
was poisoned by the reaction of wine on glass or ceramics.
As Beethoven was black on his mother's side, there is every chance
that he would have used huge quantities of powder... Most contained
lead, so it is my bet that would have been the main source of any
unusually high levels... But where is the evidence he was poisoned? Or
has someone done an "analysis" of his ailments and presumed that was
what he suffered?
Janet Kaiser
The Chapel of Art / Capel Celfyddyd
Home of The International Potters' Path
8 Marine Crescent : Criccieth : GB-Wales
URL: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
postbox@the-coa.org.uk
> It's much less common now, maybe even illegal, but "tin" cans used
to be
> soldered with lead solder. So the small seam of solder down the
side of
> the can could leach lead into the food, especially after the can is
opened,
> when oxygen can get in.
dayton j grant on mon 8 apr 02
Yeah, I heard about that Arctic expeditionary team and they say that
there is evidence that the people could have made it outta there ,but
they went 'nuts' or whatever, from the lead poisoning and made several
serious mistakes (I guess any mistake is serious in the Arctic) in a row.
I also heard that maybe some of the painters we all know and love, went a
little 'off' from licking the tips of the brushes and over the years
ended up with some solid doses of toxic stuff in their bodies, its enough
to make someone (like me)neurotic ,so every time I meet a real nutty
artist I wonder if it may just be the green paint....<;>)
Dayton Grant,
just got a cell phone, so if anybody wants to rap my # is
(323)253-2195.....
Im really going to try to get in touch with some of my clay neighbors
(from coast to coast) this summer so if theres anything I should know
about please give me a buzz and If anyone wants to have an advanced
throwing workshop or a kiln building party ,let me know,Ill do it ,I
really wanna do something like this summer,later.
Philip Poburka on mon 8 apr 02
If tis is the expedition I am thing about..they took a Life Boat, and in it
had a writeing Desk, and some other unlikely choices of things, and pulled
it with ropes across the jagged frozen land for some unbelievable
distance...
Phil
Las Vegas...
----- Original Message -----
From: "dayton j grant"
To:
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 1:53 AM
Subject: Re: lead poisoning
> Yeah, I heard about that Arctic expeditionary team and they say that
> there is evidence that the people could have made it outta there ,but
> they went 'nuts' or whatever, from the lead poisoning and made several
> serious mistakes (I guess any mistake is serious in the Arctic) in a row.
> I also heard that maybe some of the painters we all know and love, went a
> little 'off' from licking the tips of the brushes and over the years
> ended up with some solid doses of toxic stuff in their bodies, its enough
> to make someone (like me)neurotic ,so every time I meet a real nutty
> artist I wonder if it may just be the green paint....<;>)
> Dayton Grant,
> just got a cell phone, so if anybody wants to rap my # is
> (323)253-2195.....
> Im really going to try to get in touch with some of my clay neighbors
> (from coast to coast) this summer so if theres anything I should know
> about please give me a buzz and If anyone wants to have an advanced
> throwing workshop or a kiln building party ,let me know,Ill do it ,I
> really wanna do something like this summer,later.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Steve Mills on mon 8 apr 02
As a matter of interest face powder in the 18/19th century could also
contain high levels of Arsenic, making giving a lady a kiss on the cheek
a fairly dodgy process!
Steve
Bath
UK
In message , Janet Kaiser
writes
>Yet another example of "We were only talking about this today" and
>then up it pops on Clayart (or vice versa)! Apparently one of the
>early Arctic expeditions got stuck by the weather and died one by one.
>Not of exposure or hunger, but from lead poisoning. They were living
>off tinned food. There were high levels of lead and arsenic in old
>cans. Modern canning methods are safer, but there was a recent "scare"
>following the amount of heavy metals which had been measured in
>certain tinned (canned) tomatoes. As a result, a couple of
>supermarkets in the UK had to withdraw their stock last year. Or was
>it the year before?
>
>When I was small my mother taught me never use a metal spoon to scrape
>out food out of a tin and preferably use water to wash out the last
>bits. Always use a wooden or plastic implement if you have to scrape.
>I still do that. Also check the tin with acidic foods like tomatoes
>before using them to cook or eat... If there are black spots around
>the inside of the tin, bin the contents.
>
>According to an article I read some time ago, the highest levels of
>lead to be found in NY city were in the old stair-wells of brown-stone
>houses even before lead-free petrol became the norm. All that old lead
>paint was degrading and it was far more hazardous for kids playing in
>the houses than out on the streets! The original study of lead in
>young children prompted the US government to introduce anti-lead laws
>because they presumed it was the traffic causing high levels... It was
>some years later they found the main cause was much nearer home.
>
>As for Beethoven suffering from lead poisoning from wine leaching
>glass... I take those sort of claims with a healthy dose of
>scepticism. Lead was in wig and face powder (used by men and women),
>creams, cosmetics, many types of over the counter medicines, including
>"cures" for venereal disease... It was also present in pewter eating
>and drinking vessels, paint, anti-bug preparations, water pipes...
>With the huge amounts of lead in daily use, it is ridiculous to say he
>was poisoned by the reaction of wine on glass or ceramics.
>
>As Beethoven was black on his mother's side, there is every chance
>that he would have used huge quantities of powder... Most contained
>lead, so it is my bet that would have been the main source of any
>unusually high levels... But where is the evidence he was poisoned? Or
>has someone done an "analysis" of his ailments and presumed that was
>what he suffered?
>
>Janet Kaiser
>The Chapel of Art / Capel Celfyddyd
>Home of The International Potters' Path
>8 Marine Crescent : Criccieth : GB-Wales
>URL: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
>postbox@the-coa.org.uk
>
>> It's much less common now, maybe even illegal, but "tin" cans used
>to be
>> soldered with lead solder. So the small seam of solder down the
>side of
>> the can could leach lead into the food, especially after the can is
>opened,
>> when oxygen can get in.
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
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