Pheetie@AOL.COM on mon 8 apr 02
Hi All,
I have seen lots of posts about saggar firing in foil to make the ware black.
Has anyone had any experience with using chemicals such as copper sulfate,
salt, or anything else? If so, what were your results? Thanks for the help.
Marcia in Chattanooga
Earl Brunner on tue 9 apr 02
Exactly, If you are using aluminum foil, then you will be limited to the
temperatures that the aluminum foil will survive at.
Anji Henderson wrote:
> Thanks Earl and Dannon...
>
> So, I suppose it would be safe to say to who ever it
> was that started me off on this train of thought..
> That they should keep in mind the melting point of AL,
> and the temp they are thinking of firing to ...???...
> :)
>
> Anji
>
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
mailto:bruec@anv.net
Anji Henderson on tue 9 apr 02
Hello all,
Correct me if I'm wrong or if I have some odd myths or
misconceptions.
I was always under the impression that sagger firing
was usually done at higher temperatures, like cone ten
or cone six. This could be a complete myth, but I was
introduced to sager firing when I was learning cone
ten. And I had been in three class previous to this
class doing cone six, and never had heard about sager
firing. Or maybe it was so long ago I have forgotten
by now.......
So if one were to sager fire in the aluminum foil,
wouldn't they have to fire to cone 020? Or are we
possibly talking about pit fireing, but doesn't an
open flame go higher than cone 020? Or am I just
confused???
Anji
--- Pheetie@AOL.COM wrote:
> Hi All,
> I have seen lots of posts about saggar firing in
> foil to make the ware black.
> Has anyone had any experience with using chemicals
> such as copper sulfate,
> salt, or anything else? If so, what were your
> results? Thanks for the help.
> Marcia in Chattanooga
>
>
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Dannon Rhudy on tue 9 apr 02
....>Correct me if I'm wrong or if I have some odd myths or
>misconceptions.
>
>I was always under the impression that sagger firing
>was usually done at higher temperatures,.......
The word "saggar" is a contraction of the English "safe
guard", and has been in use for so long that most people
don't know where it comes from. One can fire in saggars
at ANY temperature. The saggar is used to protect the
wares from the ash/soot/whatever in the kiln, or conversely
to keep the combustibles close to the pot. In the bottle
kilns in England the wares were stacked in saggars - they
didn't have/use shelves. In China, saggars were often used
to fire celedons and copper reds, to keep the ash off,
and as shelving to stack pots. Native
American (and other) low-fire potters often use(d) saggars
to protect the work from sudden heat gain. Sometimes the
saggar consists merely of shards from broken pots, placed
around the work being fired to shelter it to a greater or
lesser degree. It's a useful tool at any temp.
regards
Dannon Rhudy
Earl Brunner on tue 9 apr 02
Anji,
Sagger firing today, has more to do with the process than the historical,
traditional reasons for sagger firing. For example origainally pottery was usually
fired in saggers to protect it from the influences of the flame and fuel. Saggers
also took the place of shelves in early times.
When we sagger fire now, we often do it for almost the opposite reason. We are
often putting stuff into the sagger with the pots that we want to protect the kiln
and the rest of the firing FROM. And today, I think when potters sagger fire, they
use what ever temperature that they thing will give them the results that they are
after.
Its not really a question of myths or misconceptions, just different reasons for
doing it the way its done now.
Anji Henderson wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong or if I have some odd myths or
> misconceptions.
>
> I was always under the impression that sagger firing
> was usually done at higher temperatures, like cone ten
> or cone six. This could be a complete myth, but I was
> introduced to sager firing when I was learning cone
> ten. And I had been in three class previous to this
> class doing cone six, and never had heard about sager
> firing. Or maybe it was so long ago I have forgotten
> by now.......
>
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
mailto:bruec@anv.net
Anji Henderson on tue 9 apr 02
Thanks Earl and Dannon...
So, I suppose it would be safe to say to who ever it
was that started me off on this train of thought..
That they should keep in mind the melting point of AL,
and the temp they are thinking of firing to ...???...
:)
Anji
--- Earl Brunner wrote:
>And today, I think
> when potters sagger fire, they
> use what ever temperature that they thing will give
> them the results that they are
> after.
>
> Its not really a question of myths or
> misconceptions, just different reasons for
> doing it the way its done now.
=====
Good art does not have to match your sofa!!
-Fred Babb
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Valice Raffi on wed 10 apr 02
I've tried a lot of different things in the foil saggar at ^022 & not much
happened. Did get a little difference once from a piece of cow patty that
I carefully shaped with a knife (I wanted a specifically shaped mark to be
left on the piece). I soaked the patty in a copper carb solution & let the
whole thing dry out. Then I attached it to the piece & fired it in the
foil saggar. Unfortunately, I attached it with rafia (DUH!) which burned
ALOT faster than the dung so I wound up with the mark being an
unrecognizable smear down the front of the figure and a larger mark at the
bottom. The piece looked so cool before it went into the saggar with all
the lovely rafia tied quite artistically to it - almost better than the
finished piece.
Valice
in Sacramento
>> I have seen lots of posts about saggar firing in foil to make the ware
>>black. Has anyone had any experience with using chemicals such as copper
>>sulfate, salt, or anything else? If so, what were your results? Thanks
>>for the help. <
>
>The foil will start to break up and open up around 650c - 700c. The
>oxides typically used in pit firing don't do anything at those
>temperatures except make black, dusty smudges.
>
Russel Fouts on wed 10 apr 02
Marci,
> I have seen lots of posts about saggar firing in foil to make the ware black. Has anyone had any experience with using chemicals such as copper sulfate, salt, or anything else? If so, what were your results? Thanks for the help. <
The foil will start to break up and open up around 650c - 700c. The
oxides typically used in pit firing don't do anything at those
temperatures except make black, dusty smudges.
There aren't many oxides that volitize (which is what you want) below
800c.
Russel
-----------------------------
--
Russel Fouts
Mes Potes & Mes Pots
Brussels, Belgium
Tel: +32 2 223 02 75
Mobile: +32 476 55 38 75
Http://www.mypots.com
http://www.Japan-Net.ne.jp/~iwcat
"There is a theory which states that
if ever anyone discovers exactly what
the universe is for and why it's here,
it will instantly disappear and be
replaced by something even more bizzarly
inexplicable."
"There is another theory which states
that this has already happened!"
Douglas Adams' The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy
Russel Fouts on wed 10 apr 02
Anji,
>> Correct me if I'm wrong or if I have some odd myths or misconceptions. I was always under the impression that sagger firing
was usually done at higher temperatures, like cone ten or cone six. This
could be a complete myth, but I was introduced to sager firing when I
was learning cone ten. And I had been in three class previous to this
class doing cone s ix, and never had heard about sager firing. Or maybe
it was so long ago I have forgotten by now....... So if one were to
sager fire in the aluminum foil, wouldn't they have to fire to cone 020?
Or are we possibly talking about pit fireing, but doesn't an open flame
go higher than cone 020? Or am I just confused??? <
Depends what you want from the saggar, if you just want some color
altering smoke or BLACK, aluminium foil saggars are fine. You can't use
them with oxides because the foil will break up above 650c
"Saggar firing", Don't'cha just love those really precise definitions.
;-)
Russel
--
Russel Fouts
Mes Potes & Mes Pots
Brussels, Belgium
Tel: +32 2 223 02 75
Mobile: +32 476 55 38 75
Http://www.mypots.com
http://www.Japan-Net.ne.jp/~iwcat
"There is a theory which states that
if ever anyone discovers exactly what
the universe is for and why it's here,
it will instantly disappear and be
replaced by something even more bizzarly
inexplicable."
"There is another theory which states
that this has already happened!"
Douglas Adams' The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy
iandol on wed 10 apr 02
Dear Anji Henderson,
Like many things associated with the gentle art of claywork, you can =
pick and choose at what temperature you wish to work. Depends on the =
kind of chemistry you want to or wish to exploit. Step outside the =
circle of the conventional and you will make discoveries. You will be =
intrigued, amazed, even frightened by what results. Some things may be =
so astounding that they are unbelievable. No one should judge you for =
being right or wrong. Some effects are more pleasing than other. Others =
may be ephemeral, even unstable. But they are your discoveries.
Have fun. Make your own rules.
Best regards,
Ivor
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