Philip Poburka on thu 25 apr 02
"Air
Tanks"...further thoughts...
Dear John, et all...
I had been thinking on this as I had wrestled some while on the damned Valve
trying to get it unscrewed so I could use the Jug for an 'Air-Bottle'...I
had let it 'breathe' plenty, and plenty still smelled rather well strongly
of Propane.
I figured maybe I could sluice it out with some Hot Soapy water or boil some
Caustic in it to get it free of any Gas as may be still - as they say - 'in'
the pores of the Steel...
It is well known (to me at least) that testimonies abound of fellows doing
some welding or brazing on old Gasolene Tanks...Tanks that had breathed or
sat empty a long while and been sluiced and scrubbed a-plenty...Tanks that
had no smell to 'em...well you better fill 'em with dry-ice or the like to
displace the available Oxygen or else maybe add yer tale to theirs as to how
she 'blew'.
Not the same but kindred in it's way, I would be very careful about this
possibility of Oil Mist in compressed Air going into a spent Propane Jug...a
Jug that may smell fine today may be a mite discreetly not so fine on a hot
day later on...at least I will say it worries me to think of the possible
mishap lesson in Chemistry as may be waiting. Even if ye think it is plenty
clean of the old Propane.
I need to learn more on this to satisfy myself about it.
I would for the present, respectfully suggest prudence with this one.
Till we are sure it is allright...
I will do some tests...see what I can see on this...
Phil
Las Vegas...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philip Poburka"
To:
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 10:24 AM
Subject: Re: Propane tank recertificaton "CAUTION" !!!!! As to makin' em
"Air Tanks"
> Dear John!
>
> I think we may want to do a little more homework here, for sake of
prudence.
>
> Here is my thought, and it may be merely acedemic:
>
> Most Compressors generate oil mist which goes out with the compressed Air.
>
> Propane, as with Acetylene, and certainly with good ol' Oxygen, may be
> understood to react with various
> Hydro-Carbons in a chemical way as we may call conflagrateing or
> 'combustion'.
>
> Residual Propane in a Tank now getting Compressed Air put into it, as such
> Air may have oil mist in it, could, in my view, be imagined to be a
possible
> scenario for ignition, which in a captive interior of the tank, such
> Ignition-Cumbustion may produce pressures which exceed the elastic limits
of
> the Tank's strength to contain them, and hence one would have a Tank
rupture
> or explosion as may occasion inconvenient or surprising consequences.
>
> Any 'Science' Boys or Girls care to elaborate on this notion?
>
> Phil
> Las Vegas...
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Stromnes"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 8:14 AM
> Subject: Propane tank recertificaton
>
>
> > One issue that hasn't been addressed on this list to my knowledge is"
What
> > do you do with your old propoane tank, once you buy a new one with the
> > required safety valve?
> >
> > My propane supplier suggested opening the already empty tank, allowing
> it
> > to vent for several days to make sure the propane is exhausted. then
> > purchasing an easily installed adapter that will make your propnae tank
a
> > compressed air tank, with a conventional right-hand thread. You can then
> > fill your old tank from your (or your gas station's) air comppressor,
and
> > use it as a portable source of compressed air for spraying liquids,
> filling
> > bike tires, etc.
> >
> > Such adapters will be available at the retail level in the next few
weeks
> > or months, my vendor said.
> >
> > P.S. He advised against trying to replace the fittings on the little
> > barbecue-grill style tanks yourself with the new safety fittings,
because
> > it is almost mpossible for the average person to get enough leverage or
> > purchase on the little tank to unscrew the old connector, even if you
have
> > the right tool. With the bigger tanks, you can jam them against a
corner
> > of the wall and hold them into place securely using brute force. But the
> > little BBQ ones are hard to hold while you are trying to unscrew the old
> > connection, unless you have a special jig or vise set up for this
purpose
> > to hold the tank in one place while you unscrew the fitting.
> >
> > My supplier also added his bit of malicous gossip: He believes the
reason
> > the new valves have been required is because of some backyard-bomb
> > explosions in California caused by untrained or in-a-hurry vendors
> filling
> > BBQ tanks too full.
> >
> > He also warned that the new tanks are not fail-safe. If they get too
hot,
> > for example,by sitting in a hot car or van all afternoon with the
> windows
> > rolled up and the sun shining in, the safety valve can release
propane
> > because of pressure build up. In an enclosed space, like that unvented
> > hot car, the released propane will explode with one spark or match.
> >
> > In Polson MT
> > John Syodo Stromnes
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Philip Poburka on thu 25 apr 02
"Air
Tanks"
Dear John!
I think we may want to do a little more homework here, for sake of prudence.
Here is my thought, and it may be merely acedemic:
Most Compressors generate oil mist which goes out with the compressed Air.
Propane, as with Acetylene, and certainly with good ol' Oxygen, may be
understood to react with various
Hydro-Carbons in a chemical way as we may call conflagrateing or
'combustion'.
Residual Propane in a Tank now getting Compressed Air put into it, as such
Air may have oil mist in it, could, in my view, be imagined to be a possible
scenario for ignition, which in a captive interior of the tank, such
Ignition-Cumbustion may produce pressures which exceed the elastic limits of
the Tank's strength to contain them, and hence one would have a Tank rupture
or explosion as may occasion inconvenient or surprising consequences.
Any 'Science' Boys or Girls care to elaborate on this notion?
Phil
Las Vegas...
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Stromnes"
To:
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 8:14 AM
Subject: Propane tank recertificaton
> One issue that hasn't been addressed on this list to my knowledge is" What
> do you do with your old propoane tank, once you buy a new one with the
> required safety valve?
>
> My propane supplier suggested opening the already empty tank, allowing
it
> to vent for several days to make sure the propane is exhausted. then
> purchasing an easily installed adapter that will make your propnae tank a
> compressed air tank, with a conventional right-hand thread. You can then
> fill your old tank from your (or your gas station's) air comppressor, and
> use it as a portable source of compressed air for spraying liquids,
filling
> bike tires, etc.
>
> Such adapters will be available at the retail level in the next few weeks
> or months, my vendor said.
>
> P.S. He advised against trying to replace the fittings on the little
> barbecue-grill style tanks yourself with the new safety fittings, because
> it is almost mpossible for the average person to get enough leverage or
> purchase on the little tank to unscrew the old connector, even if you have
> the right tool. With the bigger tanks, you can jam them against a corner
> of the wall and hold them into place securely using brute force. But the
> little BBQ ones are hard to hold while you are trying to unscrew the old
> connection, unless you have a special jig or vise set up for this purpose
> to hold the tank in one place while you unscrew the fitting.
>
> My supplier also added his bit of malicous gossip: He believes the reason
> the new valves have been required is because of some backyard-bomb
> explosions in California caused by untrained or in-a-hurry vendors
filling
> BBQ tanks too full.
>
> He also warned that the new tanks are not fail-safe. If they get too hot,
> for example,by sitting in a hot car or van all afternoon with the
windows
> rolled up and the sun shining in, the safety valve can release propane
> because of pressure build up. In an enclosed space, like that unvented
> hot car, the released propane will explode with one spark or match.
>
> In Polson MT
> John Syodo Stromnes
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
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