Merrie Boerner on wed 24 apr 02
Cher Hoffman, wrote, " in HOT HOT HOT Florida, where the deer flies are
attacking with
a vengeance...have you ever tried to throw with a fly swatter in one hand?"
Okay Cher,.....so this reminds me of a story......Once I was throwing a
vessel in front of the mirror, when a mosquito lit on my forehead. Reflex
led my slip filled fingers up to my face with a smack.......thank goodness I
was watching myself in the mirror.....it was like one of the funniest home
video I'd ever seen......slip all over my face, shirt and glasses.
I keep my studios doors closed now.....or birds, snakes and mosquitoes
will intrude.
Merrie in Mississippi
Joyce Lee on wed 24 apr 02
I must have posted an offhand remark about using a mirror to throw, for =
I've received several inquiries as to just how the mirror helps me =
improve my throwing.
Thinking it through ..... here goes:
I catch a much better view of what is actually happening with my lump of =
clay
as I center, pull up walls, and shape.=20
Otherwise, looking down on the pot, or
to the right side as I throw, my perspective is more limited than it is =
when I add the dimension of a mirror. For
example, I can see more clearly bulges where I don't want them, and =
lopsided areas, as well as irregular rims, while in front of the =
mirror. On a flared bowl (one of my favorite forms to make) looking =
down or to the righthand side, without the mirror, I may view the flared =
rim as wide and distinctly flared .... and that the bowl narrows toward =
the bottom. In the mirror, I can see that the bottom isn't nearly as =
narrow as I thought, that the pot is much thicker than I wanted, and =
that the rim doesn't flare out as much as I intended.
I also see more clearly exactly how much clay I'm moving up with each =
pull so that my pots' walls are closer to the thinness for which I was =
striving. Pre-mirror, I constantly stood up and moved around the =
circling wheel trying for another perspective ..... this is much better.
I'll be throwing more in a few days.... still glazing and preparing a =
new load today ... last one turned out better than I deserved with so =
many false starts due to the wind ... anyway, I'll pay more attention =
while throwing in front of the mirror ... see if I garner any new =
insights as to how it helps. =20
Joyce
In the Mojave happy to be a potter...... how long did it take for you to =
actually say the words, "I am a potter," to others.. or even to =
yourself? Took me at least three years, maybe longer .... although I =
went about ALL the time self-talking things like,
"I can't believe that I'm doing this!" "I made that bowl! I did it ... =
from scratch! How ABOUT me?" But to say that I was a potter.... took a =
long time. Not like teaching ... first time I entered my own classroom I =
KNEW that I was a teacher .... though I still exulted and moseyed around =
"my" room touching everything, saying "This is my projector,"
"This is my chalkboard" etc "because I AM THE TEACHER." Potting is =
different, I think .....
L. P. Skeen on wed 24 apr 02
I have used a mirror to throw (or when throwing) for a couple of years and I
HATE throwing without one. The mirror allows you to see your pot as it's
coming up off the wheelhead without twisting your body around to see it from
the side, AND gives you the perspective you'd have if you got up off the
seat, went across the room, squatted down to look at the piece. I tend to
watch the mirror more than the actual pot when fine-tuning.
L
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joyce Lee"
Subject: Throwing With A Mirror
I must have posted an offhand remark about using a mirror to throw, for I've
received several inquiries as to just how the mirror helps me improve my
throwing.
Cheryl Hoffman on wed 24 apr 02
In a message dated 04/24/02 3:22:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
joycelee@IWVISP.COM writes:
> I must have posted an offhand remark about using a mirror to throw, for
I've
> received several inquiries as to just how the mirror helps me improve my
> throwing.
> Thinking it through ..... here goes:
>
>
I also use a mirror to throw, for all the well-said reasons you listed. I
also find it helps me to keep my back straight and relieve the strain we all
suffer with a long session of throwing. I sit up straight once I start to
pull and only watch in the mirror. I'm using a motorized Randall, but
usually only use the motor for centering...the rest I kick. And...the
greatest thing since sliced bread that I recently stumbled on at a garage
sale...it's a convex mirror with cross hairs on it, used to practice your
golf swing. Sweet for making sure my pots are level and centered. I just
move around in my seat a bit and check top and sides of the pot in the cross
hairs with the wheel going at a slow speed...shows me what's out of whack
with a glance.
Cher Hoffman, in HOT HOT HOT Florida, where the deer flies are attacking
with
a vengeance...have you ever tried to throw with a fly swatter in one hand?
Merrie Boerner on wed 24 apr 02
I have a huge mirror in front of my wheel, a large mirror three feet from my
hand building turntable, and a small mirror in front of my trimming wheel.
Using mirrors to view the silhouette of my handbuilt pots was how it all
began......I can turn, watch the pot in the mirror, and not have to back
away to see what it looks like from a distance. With one spin , I can also
tell if the vessel is interesting from all sides. I use the mirrors in
front of the wheel so I won't have to bend over to the side to see the shape
of the pot or the foot....saves the back from strain.
Unexpected benefit ; there is always a dance partner when a song with a
good beat comes on.......lonely ? Never !
Merrie
Gail Dapogny on thu 25 apr 02
Near-dumb question, I know, but...about what size mirror, and placed where?
----Gail
>I have used a mirror to throw (or when throwing) for a couple of years and
I
>HATE throwing without one.reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Gail Dapogny
1154 Olden Road
Ann Arbor, MI 48103-3005
(734) 665-9816
gdapogny@umich.edu
http://www.silverhawk.com/ex99/dapogny (single historical photo - no longer
registered with Silverhawk)
L. P. Skeen on thu 25 apr 02
It's an el cheapo wal mart door mirror - about 3.5 feet tall, maybe a foot
wide or less.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gail Dapogny"
To:
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: Throwing With A Mirror
> Near-dumb question, I know, but...about what size mirror, and placed
where?
> ----Gail
>
>
> >I have used a mirror to throw (or when throwing) for a couple of years
and I
> >HATE throwing without one.reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
> Gail Dapogny
> 1154 Olden Road
> Ann Arbor, MI 48103-3005
> (734) 665-9816
> gdapogny@umich.edu
> http://www.silverhawk.com/ex99/dapogny (single historical photo - no
longer
> registered with Silverhawk)
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Cheryl Hoffman on thu 25 apr 02
In a message dated 04/25/02 12:55:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
gdapogny@UMICH.EDU writes:
> Near-dumb question, I know, but...about what size mirror, and placed
where?
> ----Gail
>
>
>
Hi Gail,
I place my mirror directly in front of me, elevated a bit, on a shelf
on the other side of the wheel. I use a 12 in. convex mirror with
cross-hairs (used to practice golf swing) but have also used an old
fashioned
tri-fold mirror from an old dresser. Just a regular 12 x 12 mirror tile
will
work fine, but I like the added dimensions I can view with the convex or
tri-fold.
Cher Hoffman
Les Haworth on thu 25 apr 02
Throwing with a small mirror is good, Throwing with a large mirror is
better, Throwin with your eyes closed is the Best. Try it, you'll like it!
It will speed up the learning process. (Teaching your brain where center
is.) Les H.
Lester R. Haworth III
Sales and Technical Support
Laguna Clay Co.
14400 Lomitas ave
City of Industry, CA 91746
1(800) 4-LAGUNA ext. 229
(626)330-0631 ext. 229
les@lagunaclay.com
www.lagunaclay.com
"The title of Artist is self-proclaimed!" Les H.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of Gail Dapogny
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 8:45 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: [CLAYART] Throwing With A Mirror
Near-dumb question, I know, but...about what size mirror, and placed where?
----Gail
>I have used a mirror to throw (or when throwing) for a couple of years and
I
>HATE throwing without one.reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Gail Dapogny
1154 Olden Road
Ann Arbor, MI 48103-3005
(734) 665-9816
gdapogny@umich.edu
http://www.silverhawk.com/ex99/dapogny (single historical photo - no longer
registered with Silverhawk)
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
m markey on thu 25 apr 02
Hi Merrie, and other Mirror Mavens!
What an excellent idea--watching one's body making ceramic wares! This
reminds me of my dance career--taking class in a space literally surrounded
by mirrors, to see every movement of one's body at work.
Of course, watching one's self making pots may be a bit more difficult than
learning dance, but like dance, one can self-correct erroneous postures and
positioning of the hands, the torso, and even the legs, in the process of
clay work, with a mirror in front of the wheel or the forming table.
I think an extension of this idea might be to place mirrors in beginning
ceramics classes! That way, one can learn to move with the clay without
straining muscles that might be haphazardly in an incorrect position.
The other advantage of mirrors--I use them to make fun of myself. I can
grin, pull or puff my cheeks, and laugh at the many facial expressions!
Best wishes!
Mohabee NakedClay@hotmail.com
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
Coleman Black on thu 25 apr 02
hi all....
i also throw with a mirror from time to time... usually when i am
throwing things that are a bit more complicated than a bowl or a
plate. for me... its pretty helpful to have it sitting directly across
from me and at an angle that well show me the full, direct profile of the
peice that i am throwing. as far as how big of a mirror... well...
thats more a prefrence thing. i use two seperate mirrors... depending
on the size of the pot that i am throwing. the smaller mirror is the
about 18 inches tall and 12 inches across... its nothing more than a cheapy
mirror that i picked up at wal-mart. the other mirror is a bit
bigger. i found it in a house that was going to be demolished... its
nothing more than a bathroom mirror from the older style medicine cabinets
that were made from metal. its probably about 24 inches tall and about
18 inches wide.
as far as how i place them... that is just a prefrence... i do all of my
throwing in my colleges studio.. and we have both kick wheels and electric
brent wheels... since i use a brent... the platform of the wheel is lower..
and directly across from my wheel is a kick wheel... so i place the mirror
on a brick and lean it against the wheel directly across from me. the
brick helps to raise the base of the mirror level with the top of my
splashguard. i position it so all i have to do is simply move my eyes to see
either the profile of the pot in the mirror or to see the top of the
pot.
since i have been using the mirror, the quality of my work has
drastically increased. its one habit i plan on keeping for quite a
while.
i hope thats helped out some
-Coleman Black
We have to be able to criticize what we love, to say what we have to
say, 'cause if you're not trying to make something better, than as far as I
can tell, you're just in the way.
- Ani Difranco
Do not go gentle into that good night, Old age should burn and
rave at close of day;
Rage, rage, against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
From: Gail Dapogny
Reply-To: Ceramic Arts Discussion List
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Throwing With A Mirror
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 11:44:46 -0400
Near-dumb question, I know, but...about what size mirror, and
placed where?
----Gail
>I have used a mirror to throw (or when throwing) for a couple
of years and I
>HATE throwing without one.reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Gail Dapogny
1154 Olden Road
Ann Arbor, MI 48103-3005
(734) 665-9816
gdapogny@umich.edu
http://www.silverhawk.com/ex99/dapogny (single historical photo -
no longer
registered with Silverhawk)
_________________________________________________________________
_____________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Join the world’s largest e-mail service
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vince pitelka on fri 26 apr 02
> Near-dumb question, I know, but...about what size mirror, and placed
where?
> ----Gail
Gail -
Not dumb at all. Good question. But there is no easy answer, because both
the size of the mirror and the placement are up to you. The important thing
is that when you are forming the profile of the vessel, you should be able
to look up and see the whole vessel in the mirror.
We frequently see potters bending over sideways to see the profile of the
pot, but think about it - that is the only time in the entire life of the
pot that anyone will look at its profile from that contorted angle. What an
odd way to make decisions about vessel design. Instead, why not look at the
pot the same way viewers will look at it when it is sitting on a shelf? You
place the mirror a few feet away from you, so that the line of sight from
your eyes to the mirror and back to the pot is about four feet total - a
good distance for viewing the profile of the pot.
Someone suggested those square-foot mirror tiles, and I would say that is
the minimum size that serves the purpose. You can adjust the position of
the mirror to your own needs, depending on your body position when you are
forming the profile of your pots.
Good luck -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Judi Buchanan on mon 5 apr 04
A cheap or free stand to hold a mirror can be obtained from the cemetery
cleaning crew. The wreath stands come in several sizes and fold flat
when not in use. Usually they sell them back to the florist so they may
sell or give you one that has gotten a little tatty.
Judi Buchanan,Flutter-by Pottery , Junk tools a specialty.
Gene and Dolita Dohrman on mon 5 apr 04
Dear Claybuds, I have decided that it would be in my best interest to =
try to use a mirror to watch the progress of my pot while throwing and =
trimming, especially trimming. I find I spend so much time leaning over =
to the right and I know that can't be good. Over the weekend I =
purchased a mirror and am trying to figure out the best way to attach it =
to my wheel. It needs to tilt back slightly. I have checked the =
archives and know that a number of you use a mirror (Joyce and Merrie =
for example). There was the idea to attach it to a wall with the wheel =
facing it but if I do that, my back will be to the windows. I would =
really like to have it attached to the frame of the wheel somehow. Any =
suggestions?
Dolita =20
dohrman@insightbb.com
Louisville, KY
Charles Moore on mon 5 apr 04
Hello, Dolita,
In my first experience with a mirror by my wheel, I found that I spattered
clay slip as I potted. Later, I moved the mirror some distance to the right
and front of the wheel, perhaps 5 feet. There are no more spatters, and the
profile of the pot is still clear. You do have to find the right angle to
observe from, which is easier if someone else moves the mirror around while
you sit at your wheel.
Hope this helps.
Charles
Sacramento
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene and Dolita Dohrman"
To:
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 9:39 AM
Subject: Throwing with a mirror
sdr on mon 5 apr 04
......There was the idea to attach it to a wall with the wheel facing it but
if I do that, my back will be to the windows. I would really like to have
it attached to the frame of the wheel somehow. Any suggestions?.......
I imagine that attaching the mirror to the wheel
would have irritating limitations to it - not least
that it would be too close to you. If you don't
wish to hang it on the wall, why don't you make
a small stand for the mirror, along the lines of
a small easle?
regards
Dannon Rhudy
____________________________________________________________________________
__
foxpots on mon 5 apr 04
Dear Dolita,
If you remember my studio, my mirror is about 5' tall and leans up against
the wall, under my wall of windows.
Jean Wadsworth Cochran
http://www.foxhollowpottery.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On Behalf Of Gene and
Dolita Dohrman
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 12:39 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Throwing with a mirror
Dear Claybuds, I have decided that it would be in my best interest to try to
use a mirror to watch the progress of my pot while throwing and trimming,
especially trimming. I find I spend so much time leaning over to the right
and I know that can't be good. Over the weekend I purchased a mirror and am
trying to figure out the best way to attach it to my wheel. It needs to
tilt back slightly. I have checked the archives and know that a number of
you use a mirror (Joyce and Merrie for example). There was the idea to
attach it to a wall with the wheel facing it but if I do that, my back will
be to the windows. I would really like to have it attached to the frame of
the wheel somehow. Any suggestions?
Dolita
dohrman@insightbb.com
Louisville, KY
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Jennifer Boyer on mon 5 apr 04
Along these lines, whether you have it near your wheel or farther away:
I use 2 adjustable plastic plate holders(the kind that sit on a table
)side by side to hold my mirror since it allows me to change the angle.
I like the idea of having it farther away from the wheel. Mine's close
and very spattered....
Jennifer
On Apr 5, 2004, at 7:18 PM, sdr wrote:
> ......There was the idea to attach it to a wall with the wheel facing
> it but
> if I do that, my back will be to the windows. I would really like to
> have
> it attached to the frame of the wheel somehow. Any suggestions?.......
>
> I imagine that attaching the mirror to the wheel
> would have irritating limitations to it - not least
> that it would be too close to you. If you don't
> wish to hang it on the wall, why don't you make
> a small stand for the mirror, along the lines of
> a small easle?
>
> regards
>
> Dannon Rhudy
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _____
> __
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
************************
Jennifer Boyer
Thistle Hill Pottery
Montpelier, VT
http://thistlehillpottery.com
Maurice Weitman on mon 5 apr 04
At 12:39 -0400 on 4/5/04, Gene and Dolita Dohrman wrote:
>Dear Claybuds, I have decided that it would be in my best interest
>to try to use a mirror to watch the progress of my pot while
>throwing and trimming, especially trimming. I find I spend so much
>time leaning over to the right and I know that can't be good. Over
>the weekend I purchased a mirror and am trying to figure out the
>best way to attach it to my wheel. It needs to tilt back slightly.
>I have checked the archives and know that a number of you use a
>mirror (Joyce and Merrie for example). There was the idea to attach
>it to a wall with the wheel facing it but if I do that, my back will
>be to the windows. I would really like to have it attached to the
>frame of the wheel somehow. Any suggestions?
You don't say what kind of wheel you have, Dolita, but here's one
generic suggestion:
Get one of those cheap, metal bookends, shaped like an upside-down
"T" and put it behind your splash pan.
An angle iron shelf bracket might be as good or better. Get one
whatever size would match your needs.
Prop the mirror up against it; play with the angle until you get the
view you like.
Duct tape finishes it up when it's all aligned.
If the mirror is too short or too low, prop it with something.
If the vertical part of the bookend is too low, duct tape a piece of
wood or cardboard to it to extend the reach.
Later you may wish to make it more elegant; I believe 3M makes duct
tape in colors.
Good luck.
Regards,
Maurice
Susan Fox-Hirschmann on mon 5 apr 04
I got a really inexpensive full length mirror at Target and since I have two
wheels, I move it around....usually having it lean against some windows facing
one of the wheels. When I am not throwing I move it to another part of my
studio.
When I was working in the basement, I put up mirror tiles right across from
my wheel, which worked well for many years.
Best of luck
Sincerely
Susan
annandale, VA
Jennifer Boyer on tue 6 apr 04
One more idea,
I have quite a small mirror to use at my trimming wheel. It's a cheap
drugstore hand mirror which I clamp to a bookcase with one of those
hardware store spring clamps. I could imagine even clamping the mirror
to a vase. Allows you to have the mirror in a tight space.
And after Mel's little rant, I examined how I use my mirrors and why I
still like them....
I don't look in the throwing mirror while actually throwing. But I do
look at the pot in the mirror as I'm making the decision about whether
the pot is finished. I allows me to skip that last neck crunching
lean....when throwing I'm not really crunching my neck since I'm
leaning over anyway, but when sitting back trying to see the profile of
the pot, the neck crunching move is replaced by looking at the pot in
the mirror
For trimming it's the same thing, checking the pot at the end, although
I do trim watching the pot in the mirror as well sometimes...
Most of the pots I need a mirror to look at while trimming are in the
same size range: mostly vases, pitchers, teapots, and most have big
bellies and small feet....Hard to see that profile without a BIG
lean...
My neck got so it really didn't like that sideways look to check the
pot. I avoid it when I can..
I think I know why Mel dismisses this little trick! He's TALL!. He can
lean back and get a distance from his pot! Us short folks are "right
over top of everythin".....Our short legs make us sit right up against
our wheels. Mirrors give us distance....jest a theory. ;-)
Jennifer of the chronic neck problems which yoga helps with
On Apr 5, 2004, at 10:15 PM, Susan Fox-Hirschmann wrote:
> I got a really inexpensive full length mirror at Target and since I
> have two
> wheels, I move it around....usually having it lean against some
> windows facing
> one of the wheels. When I am not throwing I move it to another part
> of my
> studio.
> When I was working in the basement, I put up mirror tiles right across
> from
> my wheel, which worked well for many years.
> Best of luck
> Sincerely
> Susan
> annandale, VA
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
************************
Jennifer Boyer
Thistle Hill Pottery
Montpelier, VT
http://thistlehillpottery.com
Vince Pitelka on tue 6 apr 04
A mirror is an excellent aid to throwing. Think about it. When you are
refining a vessel on the wheel, you lean far over to the right (or left) to
look at the profile, with your head sideways or beyond. This is the ONLY
time in the entire life of the pot that anyone looks at it from this bizarre
point of view. Why make important decisions about design while tweaking
your back unnaturally and looking at the pot sideways?
When you place a mirror at wheel level, leaning back slightly, a few feet
behind the wheel (it is a simple matter to prop the mirror against a chair,
or build a simple stand), you are seeing the pot exactly as someone might
view it on a shelf in your home. You get to see the whole pot, and you are
much more able to make wise decisions about design. You can really see what
the proportions are between the diameter of the foot and the diamter of the
rim. You can see the gentle undulations of curve. Etc.
You don't need a mirror for bowls and plates, but for any vertical forms,
from mugs on up, a mirror is a tremendous help.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Kathi LeSueur on wed 7 apr 04
vpitelka@DTCCOM.NET wrote:
>A mirror is an excellent aid to throwing. Think about it. When you are
>refining a vessel on the wheel, you lean far over to the right (or left) to
>look at the profile, with your head sideways or beyond.>>>
>
It also makes it a lot easier to watch your pot AND the television at
the same time. I've used a mirror for over twenty years. Not sure I
could throw without it anymore.
Kathi
>
>
Anne Webb on wed 7 apr 04
yeah i agree.. nothing wrong with throwing with a mirror or using the
reflection of your window to see your pot profile better. an occupational
therapist friend I know actually recommended it to save your back and
prolong your potting career.
contrary to what some "purists" say, there's more than one way to skin a
cat. there are no rules. you're not going to lose any integrity by using
one and, yes, I know plenty of other full-time potters who choose to use one
as well. while its always good to know how to throw without a mirror, if
it makes your life easier to use one, why not go for it. its just a tool. do
what works best for you.
my students have told me they like the mirror being there when i do demos as
well. they can see the pot and what i am doing from 2 angles and dont have
to strain as much.
and kathi, i never did think about a mirror helping you be able to watch tv
at the same time too! ...always looking for new ways to multitask!!
cheers and all the best!
anne
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