Julie Milazzo on tue 7 may 02
Hey all! I know I have been asking a lot of questions
lately, and they don't seem likely to stop anytime
soon. Here's another one. I'm trying to fire (for the
first time) my new Olympic downdraft kiln. It is doing
some screwy things, which I think are a mixture of
electrical heebeejeebees, and uhhhh...something else.
Possibly lack of experience? It wouldn't be bad,
except for the completely arbitrary things it's doing.
First, let me preface this by saying that though
it is a gas kiln, it came with a solenoid valve, which
plugs into the kilnsitter, which plugs into the side
of my house. Already, there could be some problems, as
that is not one of the outlets that my million dollar
electricians have checked, and it has turned off the
power twice already. Plus the extension cable is a
skinny little hundred foot cable, which my ex
boyfriend says could be too weak for the connection
(though it only calls for standard 120 volt in the
manual). Also the cord running from the valve to the
sitter is slightly severed, though it has not cut
through the plastic surrounding the wire. Okay, that's
the electrical deal.
Now, when i first lit the kiln a few days ago, it
worked. I couldn't get the right burners to shut off,
even with the burner valve shut tight, but they were
on so low, that it wasn't a problem. This morning, I
lit the kiln without a problem, and had it going for a
good half hour, before realizing that I had blown up
the cone packs. So, I turned it off, swept it out,
cursed, put in new cone packs, and tried to start it
again.
I got the left side to light, and this is done by
holding the lighter to the ignition ring, pushing down
on the little red button, and holding it down until
both the ignition ring and pilot light have been on
for a minute. Once I took my finger off of the button,
the whole thing went out. I did it again, and held it
for two minutes, and again it went out the second I
took my finger off the button. After the third #$%@^
time, I called tech support, who said that it had
nothing to do with the wiring, but everything to do
with the position of the thermocouple.
When I went out to check and do it again, the
thermocouple seemed fine, right in the path of flame,
etc. It just seems like the gas shuts off whenever I
take my finger off the button, and I can't light the
right side without the left being on already. I was
told that I could get a "one-inch nipple" (sounds like
the perfect name for an alcoholic beverage, doesn't
it?), and replace the valve with it, removing the
kilnsitter as well. This shouldn't be this hard,
should it? And if the pilot light was lit, there's
probably nothing wrong with the thermocouple position,
right? I am really wishing at this point that I was a
morning person, and at least once got to witness the
beginning of firing, not the end... but still, there's
something wrong here, and I don't know what. I'll keep
you posted if I replace stuff and get it to work, and
if any of you have ideas, please let me know. Thanks!
Jules
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
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Earl Brunner on tue 7 may 02
My Geil has one of those ignition rings for the pilots, I have had it give
me fits
trying to get it to light a while back. Turned out that the ignition ring
has all
of these little perforations in the top side and some dust or dirt got into
some of
the holes, so the ring would not light all of the way around. I took the
skirting
off of the bottom of the kiln and used a brush on the top side of the pilot
ring,
I haven't had any problems for awhile. If that ring didn't light all the
way
around though it wouldn't stay lit.
Julie Milazzo wrote:
> Hey all! I know I have been asking a lot of questions
> lately, and they don't seem likely to stop anytime
> soon. Here's another one. I'm trying to fire (for the
> first time) my new Olympic downdraft kiln. It is doing
> some screwy things, which I think are a mixture of
> electrical heebeejeebees, and uhhhh...something else.
> Possibly lack of experience? It wouldn't be bad,
> except for the completely arbitrary things it's doing.
>
> First, let me preface this by saying that though
> it is a gas kiln, it came with a solenoid valve, which
> plugs into the kilnsitter, which plugs into the side
> of my house. Already, there could be some problems, as
> that is not one of the outlets that my million dollar
> electricians have checked, and it has turned off the
> power twice already. Plus the extension cable is a
> skinny little hundred foot cable, which my ex
> boyfriend says could be too weak for the connection
> (though it only calls for standard 120 volt in the
> manual). Also the cord running from the valve to the
> sitter is slightly severed, though it has not cut
> through the plastic surrounding the wire. Okay, that's
> the electrical deal.
> Now, when i first lit the kiln a few days ago, it
> worked. I couldn't get the right burners to shut off,
> even with the burner valve shut tight, but they were
> on so low, that it wasn't a problem. This morning, I
> lit the kiln without a problem, and had it going for a
> good half hour, before realizing that I had blown up
> the cone packs. So, I turned it off, swept it out,
> cursed, put in new cone packs, and tried to start it
> again.
> I got the left side to light, and this is done by
> holding the lighter to the ignition ring, pushing down
> on the little red button, and holding it down until
> both the ignition ring and pilot light have been on
> for a minute. Once I took my finger off of the button,
> the whole thing went out. I did it again, and held it
> for two minutes, and again it went out the second I
> took my finger off the button. After the third #$%@^
> time, I called tech support, who said that it had
> nothing to do with the wiring, but everything to do
> with the position of the thermocouple.
> When I went out to check and do it again, the
> thermocouple seemed fine, right in the path of flame,
> etc. It just seems like the gas shuts off whenever I
> take my finger off the button, and I can't light the
> right side without the left being on already. I was
> told that I could get a "one-inch nipple" (sounds like
> the perfect name for an alcoholic beverage, doesn't
> it?), and replace the valve with it, removing the
> kilnsitter as well. This shouldn't be this hard,
> should it? And if the pilot light was lit, there's
> probably nothing wrong with the thermocouple position,
> right? I am really wishing at this point that I was a
> morning person, and at least once got to witness the
> beginning of firing, not the end... but still, there's
> something wrong here, and I don't know what. I'll keep
> you posted if I replace stuff and get it to work, and
> if any of you have ideas, please let me know. Thanks!
> Jules
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
> http://health.yahoo.com
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
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> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
mailto:bruec@anv.net
F.Chapman Baudelot on wed 8 may 02
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Ah, Jules,
It's seems like you're are going through a experience similar to mine. I=20
have now been trying to fire my diesel kiln for over two months. Sometimes=
=20
it has managed to behave itself for almost two hours before the controller=
=20
shuts it off, but the end result is always the same; the damn thing shuts=
=20
itself off! Right at the beginning, I suspected the solenoid valve,=20
realising that that pathetic little spring inside is at the root of all=20
those sophisticated electronic printed circuit controls; both the ones in=20
the main controller and another which is inside the burner itself and=20
linked up to the main controller and the thermopar. However, if that=20
solenoid doesn't open and shut the valve correctly, all is overidden and=20
should you remove the spring or have it too short or too loose, the=20
controller will dance merrily through its program, quite independent of the=
=20
fact that the fuel is never being shut off and that the kiln temperature=20
just rises ad infinitum until you turn off power. Sure, these things have=
=20
been designed to protect 'ignorant potters' . Well, if your solenoid is=20
not working correctly and the valve doesn't shut, there is no protection=20
whatsoever. If it shuts but fails to reopen when it should, you are=20
certainly protected, but adios to your firing. The spring in mine (I=20
noticed that the 'new' solenoid was actually made in 1998) must have been=20
too tight or too long, shutting off the flow of oil and thus the whole kiln=
=20
at random intervals, causing the main controller to go back to step=20
0. When I dismantled the thing in desperation, the spring jumped out like=
=20
a jack-in-the-box and flew off into space, never to be seen again. I=20
replaced it with a similar spring from a little disposable=20
lighter. However it was too narrow and kept deforming, eventually shutting=
=20
off the kiln. I was asked to return the whole burner to the makers for 'a=
=20
complete revision', which I did, at my own expense. They kept it for 3=20
weeks and then told me that there was nothing wrong with it, AND PLEASE=20
DON'T TOUCH ANY COMPONENTS. I reinstalled it, and it continued to stall on=
=20
me. After a week of this, and no technical support whatever, I once again=
=20
dismantled the solenoid only to discover that my lighter spring was still=20
in place! They had never even looked at that part even though they had=20
dismantled the filter and the oil pump and cleaned the burner nozzle and=20
the electrodes. So, here I am, back at square one. I have placed an=20
order for a new solenoid valve, complete with spring ( I can't order just=
=20
the spring) and meanwhile I continue dismantling gas lighters of different=
=20
makes, looking for the ideal spring with a diameter of 2mm and about 1.5 cm=
=20
long.
One of the problems here is that the guy who built and designed my kiln=20
knows nothing about burners or even electronic controllers, and the outfit=
=20
that makes the burners knows nothing about kilns or firing pots. It also=20
appears that the kiln designers over here, too, know little about firing=20
pots. They no longer put in peepholes and say that in the days of the=20
electronic controller, cones are useless! In particular, these diesel=20
kilns work by igniting a continuous spray of fuel from the nozzle, letting=
=20
it burn for about 3 seconds at full blast, then shutting it off again until=
=20
the temperature goes down about 20C=BA, whereupon the process is=20
repeated. Not at all a nice gentle curve in temperature rise because it=20
is always going up and down. Any pot that is in the direct path of this=20
monstrous flame, gets shattered on the first fiery impact, so to avoid=20
this one has to put up a protective wall, eg. piece of broken kilnshelf, in=
=20
front of the flame. The more burners the kiln has, the more walls have to=
=20
be put up. The kiln designers do not mention this at all.
I got to see a friend's lowfire (poorly insulated) diesel kiln last=20
week. It is larger than mine, 1 cu meter, and has two burners, hence he=20
had to put up two protective walls after the first firing exploded a fair=20
number of pots. His next firing was highly underfired, with all those=20
low-fire (1000C=BA) glazes looking as though they hadn't reached more than=
=20
900C=AA, maybe less. His digital controller had shown 1000C=BA when it
shut=
=20
off the kiln after a 30 minute soak. I thought about this once I got home,=
=20
and came to the conclusion that when he built up the protective walls, the=
=20
pyrometer probes had remained behind them, giving the reading of that part=
=20
of the kiln rather than the inside where the pots were, which would=20
obviously be much cooler. Of course, with no cones and no peepholes, how=20
would one know? What do our kiln gurus think?
Moral of this tale in my opinion:
1) Only experienced potters should design kilns
2) A commercial kiln builder should be well-informed as to the working of=20
both burners and electronic controllers and should give clear instructions=
=20
and detailed manuals with full descriptions of all components to the=20
customer.
So that's my rant for the day, and Jules, I truly sympathise........
Fran=E7oise, who really misses her ancient natural gas Olympic updraft with=
=20
absolutely no controls other than the gas tap.
http://indalopottery.tripod.com/fenix.html
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F.Chapman Baudelot on fri 10 may 02
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Dear Claybuds,
A couple of days ago I posted a rant about my kiln and the faulty solenoid=
=20
spring, mostly directed to Julie Milazzo. Unfortunately I did not receive=
=20
one single reply. Well, I have now received a new solenoid and there is=20
one big difference between it and the original one which was installed in=20
my 'new' burner on my 'new' diesel-fired kiln. This solenoid was made in=20
Feb. 2002, while the original one is dated July 1998. Is it possible that=20
the spring, sitting unused for 4 years, seized up or became deformed in=20
some way preventing it from performing its function? The original one also=
=20
shows signs of rust while the replacement is all sparkling new.
This is my last chance of getting that kiln to work and becoming a working=
=20
potter again. My livelihood depends on it. Now, I hardly dare install the=
=20
new valve tomorrow in case it doesn't make any difference, and would really=
=20
appreciate some input. I did find Marc Ward's website helpful, but would=20
like more details.
My other question referred to a friend of mine who has problems with his=20
diesel kiln:
>I got to see a friend's lowfire (poorly insulated) diesel kiln last=20
>week. It is larger than mine, 1 cu meter, and has two burners, hence he=
=20
>had to put up two protective walls after the first firing exploded a fair=
=20
>number of pots. His next firing was highly underfired, with all those=20
>low-fire (1000C=BA) glazes looking as though they hadn't reached more than=
=20
>900C=AA, maybe less. His digital controller had shown 1000C=BA when it=
shut=20
>off the kiln after a 30 minute soak. I thought about this once I got=20
>home, and came to the conclusion that when he built up the protective=20
>walls, the pyrometer probes had remained behind them, giving the reading=
=20
>of that part of the kiln rather than the inside where the pots were, which=
=20
>would obviously be much cooler. Of course, with no cones and no=20
>peepholes, how would one know? What do our kiln gurus think?
I have not as yet given him any advice, because I am no expert and would=20
appreciate some feedback.
Fran=E7oise (formerly Melville) frustrated in Spain.
http://indalopottery.tripod.com/fenix.html
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Bill Karaffa on sat 11 may 02
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of F.Chapman Baudelot
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 2:50 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Can't get the #@$*#$# kiln going!
Hi Francoise,
I'd tell your friend to get out the tools and make a peep hole in an
appropriate place to see the heat work done on the ware (ie.cones).
>Of course, with no cones and no peepholes, how would one know? What do =
our
kiln gurus think?
>I have not as yet given him any advice, because I am no expert and would
>appreciate some feedback.
>
>Fran=E7oise (formerly Melville) frustrated in Spain.
Bill Karaffa
Firemouth Pottery and Gallery
http://fp1.centurytel.net/karaffa
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