Earl Brunner on tue 25 jun 02
It probably should be in the "bylaws" or something. and I would thing "at your own risk".
I had one of the teachers at the art center try to get me to pay for a piece of greenware that hadn't even been bisque fired yet, because supposedly he had already sold it. I am the only one that fires the kilns and I broke it accidentally while loading the kiln. I refused. I apologized for breaking it, but didn't feel that I was responsible for paying. It's the kind of risk that we all take in a communal studio.
Pam Pulley wrote:
> . I think most members believed that being in the store was at their own risk. We have had pieces broken while cleaning, some folks will pay for those and others say "I'm doing a job cleaning and I'm not breaking pieces on purpose", so they don't pay for the broken piece."
>
> Do you have policies on these situations? Are your sales/stores an "at your own risk"? What about problems you have had? Our board is looking for input on these situations.
>
> Thanks,
> Pam in mid-michigan
>
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--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
mailto:bruec@anv.net
Pam Pulley on tue 25 jun 02
I have to tell the story and then ask the questions, so hang in there.
Our co-op has a store and sales as part of our studio space. During a sale this year, after hours, several potters works were stolen. Some potters lost one or two pieces, others more and at higher prices. Total somewhere about $1000 worth. Sadly and unfortunatly it looks like it had to be a member because there was no evidence of forced entry. We do have insurance, but it highly unlikely that they will pay because it is probably and "inside job". Some of those who lost items want the co-op to cover the cost (or part of the price of these stolen items).
Of course there are many emotions involved in this type of situation. I think most members believed that being in the store was at their own risk. We have had pieces broken while cleaning, some folks will pay for those and others say "I'm doing a job cleaning and I'm not breaking pieces on purpose", so they don't pay for the broken piece."
Do you have policies on these situations? Are your sales/stores an "at your own risk"? What about problems you have had? Our board is looking for input on these situations.
Thanks,
Pam in mid-michigan
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Tony Ferguson on wed 26 jun 02
Pam,
We too live in a coop. They break it they buy it. Simple rule. We have
also had things stolen. Gone is Gone. Hard to prove. May not be worth
claiming but you will need to work it out in your bylaws because you may
need to claim and the entire coop may need contribute if they raise your
premium. Good luck.
Tony
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pam Pulley"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: Co-op/sales-store/theft???
> I have to tell the story and then ask the questions, so hang in there.
>
> Our co-op has a store and sales as part of our studio space. During a
sale this year, after hours, several potters works were stolen. Some
potters lost one or two pieces, others more and at higher prices. Total
somewhere about $1000 worth. Sadly and unfortunatly it looks like it had to
be a member because there was no evidence of forced entry. We do have
insurance, but it highly unlikely that they will pay because it is probably
and "inside job". Some of those who lost items want the co-op to cover the
cost (or part of the price of these stolen items).
>
> Of course there are many emotions involved in this type of situation. I
think most members believed that being in the store was at their own risk.
We have had pieces broken while cleaning, some folks will pay for those and
others say "I'm doing a job cleaning and I'm not breaking pieces on
purpose", so they don't pay for the broken piece."
>
> Do you have policies on these situations? Are your sales/stores an "at
your own risk"? What about problems you have had? Our board is looking for
input on these situations.
>
> Thanks,
> Pam in mid-michigan
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas.
Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape!
http://shopnow.netscape.com/
>
> Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at
http://webmail.netscape.com/
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Richard Jeffery on wed 26 jun 02
<> does not necessarily mean an inside job -
although it probably negates any insurance. doors and windows get left
open, thieves are clever and opportunistic.
i would think re-establishing trust by getting to the bottom of this is more
important for a coop than recovering the losses? perhaps your board should
think how it manages this problem to do as little damage to the coop as
possible during this period. this doesn't mean doing nothing.
Richard Jeffery
Web Design and Photography
www.theeleventhweb.co.uk
Bournemouth UK
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of Pam Pulley
Sent: 26 June 2002 03:40
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Co-op/sales-store/theft???
I have to tell the story and then ask the questions, so hang in there.
Our co-op has a store and sales as part of our studio space. During a sale
this year, after hours, several potters works were stolen. Some potters
lost one or two pieces, others more and at higher prices. Total somewhere
about $1000 worth. Sadly and unfortunatly it looks like it had to be a
member because there was no evidence of forced entry. We do have insurance,
but it highly unlikely that they will pay because it is probably and "inside
job". Some of those who lost items want the co-op to cover the cost (or
part of the price of these stolen items).
Of course there are many emotions involved in this type of situation. I
think most members believed that being in the store was at their own risk.
We have had pieces broken while cleaning, some folks will pay for those and
others say "I'm doing a job cleaning and I'm not breaking pieces on
purpose", so they don't pay for the broken piece."
Do you have policies on these situations? Are your sales/stores an "at your
own risk"? What about problems you have had? Our board is looking for input
on these situations.
Thanks,
Pam in mid-michigan
__________________________________________________________________
Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas.
Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape!
http://shopnow.netscape.com/
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at
http://webmail.netscape.com/
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
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Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Paul Taylor on wed 26 jun 02
Wow
I have herd of a lucrative market for stolen fags , booze, videos,
computers and bits of jewelry - but most thieves are looking for cash. I can
not see hand made pottery having a high value among the sophisticates that
expect to buy stolen goods. The work that was taken must have been very
accessible or the thieves very sophisticated . I would like to think my work
would have been amongst the pieces stolen :) (thats a powerful question we
should all be answering).
Thieves are always on the look out for opportunities; at the end of a sale
cash is often left on a premises waiting for the banks to open, and thieves
know that such premises are very insecure. So I agree with Richard not
necessarily an inside job.
However if your cooperative makes its cleaners - who I presume are other
members pay for the pots they accidentally breaks rather than taking
responsibility for putting pots out of harms way or letting good will take
care of those that are left out for convenience. It deserves the negative
attention.
Also the potters who want the co-op to compensate them for their pots
would only have such a right if they can show that the rest of the members
ignored their concerns about security.
I have always admired the co-opperative ideal. That it works so well in a
country with a reputation for selfishness gives the lie to that reputation.
Maybe you are about to face the two poles of belief, one is legalistic
and one is liberal . The legal pole believes that every minutia of life can
be legalized and compensated for , the other extreme thinks that boundaries
of behavior are unnecessary and collective responsibility is oppressive. By
the time the two extremes get to play their parts out, there won't be much
co-operation left.
--
Regards from Paul Taylor
'They' have filled the world with ugliness by taking craftsmanship out of
art and art out of craftsmanship.
http://www.anu.ie/westportpottery
phone 098 21239
Paul Taylor
Westport pottery
Liscarney
Westport
County Mayo
Ireland
>
> <> does not necessarily mean an inside job -
> although it probably negates any insurance. doors and windows get left
> open, thieves are clever and opportunistic.
> i would think re-establishing trust by getting to the bottom of this is more
> important for a coop than recovering the losses? perhaps your board should
> think how it manages this problem to do as little damage to the coop as
> possible during this period. this doesn't mean doing nothing.
>
> Richard Jeffery
>
>
> I have to tell the story and then ask the questions, so hang in there.
>
> Our co-op has a store and sales as part of our studio space. During a sale
> this year, after hours, several potters works were stolen. Some potters
> lost one or two pieces, others more and at higher prices. Total somewhere
> about $1000 worth. Sadly and unfortunatly it looks like it had to be a
> member because there was no evidence of forced entry. We do have insurance,
> but it highly unlikely that they will pay because it is probably and "inside
> job". Some of those who lost items want the co-op to cover the cost (or
> part of the price of these stolen items).
>
> Of course there are many emotions involved in this type of situation. I
> think most members believed that being in the store was at their own risk.
> We have had pieces broken while cleaning, some folks will pay for those and
> others say "I'm doing a job cleaning and I'm not breaking pieces on
> purpose", so they don't pay for the broken piece."
>
> Do you have policies on these situations? Are your sales/stores an "at your
> own risk"? What about problems you have had? Our board is looking for input
> on these situations.
>
> Thanks,
> Pam in mid-michigan
>
>
Jill Dieffenbach on wed 26 jun 02
Dear Parm, Our Coop has dealt with this by paying the member minus the 30%
commission they have to pay. If it is possible we file for the insurance if
not the studio pays. Our board feels that it is an act of faith on the part
of the artists to place their work in our care. Of course it hurts when we
have to pay out. If someone breaks a piece and wishes to pay for it we of
course don' t complain. Fortunately our breakage and theft has been minimal
over the 12 years Cape Fear Studios has been in existance so we have been
fortunate.
If your organization wishes to take the at risk policy it needs to be
in the bylaws and each artist needs to understand that that is how it is when
they place their work with your group. Then there will not be any
misunderstandings if anything should happen.
Hope this helps.
Jill Dieffenbach, charter member of Cape Fear Studios in Fayetteville, NC.
scott lykens on sat 29 jun 02
>I know of a number a places and their policies, but they all happen to be
>the same.
If the work is in the store and something happens to it that prevents it
from being completely returnable to the artist in saleable condition, it is
the stores resposability to pay for the artists percentage. If your
insurance wont cover it, shop for better insurance, or at least claim it as
a loss on the taxes.
Take the emotions aside for a minute and think how it would feel for your
gallery to call you and say" your work was broken/stolen while in our
possession and we dont want to pay you for it. Loss is a part of retail and
should be built into the budget. It is a shame that theft happens and that
you may know the theif personnally, but i would certainly have to consider
disbanning myslef from my local co-op, guild , or any other affiliation that
didnt stand behind me and my fellow members when the chips are down. Its why
you consolidate interests and join a guild, and its why my guild will be
paying you for your piece if damged or stolen while moving through our
annual show.
Best wishes with your research,
Scott
>I have to tell the story and then ask the questions, so hang in there.
>
>Our co-op has a store and sales as part of our studio space. During a sale
>this year, after hours, several potters works were stolen. Some potters
>lost one or two pieces, others more and at higher prices. Total somewhere
>about $1000 worth. Sadly and unfortunatly it looks like it had to be a
>member because there was no evidence of forced entry. We do have
>insurance, but it highly unlikely that they will pay because it is probably
>and "inside job". Some of those who lost items want the co-op to cover the
>cost (or part of the price of these stolen items).
>
>Of course there are many emotions involved in this type of situation. I
>think most members believed that being in the store was at their own risk.
>We have had pieces broken while cleaning, some folks will pay for those and
>others say "I'm doing a job cleaning and I'm not breaking pieces on
>purpose", so they don't pay for the broken piece."
>
>Do you have policies on these situations? Are your sales/stores an "at
>your own risk"? What about problems you have had? Our board is looking for
>input on these situations.
>
>Thanks,
>Pam in mid-michigan
>
>
>__________________________________________________________________
>Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas.
>Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape!
>http://shopnow.netscape.com/
>
>Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at
>http://webmail.netscape.com/
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
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