Elisa M. Francovilla 95 on wed 19 jun 02
Hi,
I'm interested in finding out what kinds of potting techniques were practiced
in the middle ages - were they throwing on a wheel yet, or hand-forming?
Specifically, I'm interested in finding out about what the practices in Europe
and the Middle East were between about 800 and 1600.
Any information anyone can give me would be extremely helpful.
Thanks!
Hank Murrow on wed 19 jun 02
Elisa wrote;
>Hi,
>I'm interested in finding out what kinds of potting techniques were
>practiced in the middle ages - were they throwing on a wheel yet, or
>hand-forming?
>
>Specifically, I'm interested in finding out about what the practices
>in Europe and the Middle East were between about 800 and 1600.
>
>Any information anyone can give me would be extremely helpful.
>
Well;
I read in a book about 40 years ago that they had excavated a
site which contained small wheelthrown drinking cups which were only
partially fired. The theory was that this was a sort of early
sanitary ware....and disposable. The date was 1600 BC! We've been
around a long time.
Best, Hank in Eugene
Marcia Selsor on wed 19 jun 02
Elisa,
Yes they were throwing but also were using various mold techniques. A great book for you to read would be the Three Books of the Potters Art by
Piccalpasso mid 1500s in Italy. He documented production techniques in Italy focusing mostly on tin glaze.
Meanwhile in Spain, from 12-1400 luster ware took the lead in Manises (Valencia) as well as the Islamic strongholds of Sevilla and Granada.
!200 marked the beginning of Salt Glaze in Germany. Hard paste porcelain was develop in the later 1500s. There was a lot going on.
BTW the wheel was thought to have been in use in 2700 BCE in the middle east.
Tin Glaze ( majolica) began around 1000 in Persia and spread with Islam into north Africa and then Spain, Majorca, and into Italy. I have recently
noticed Islamic or tinglazed bowls decorating 11 and 12th century churches. The bowls have Islamic motifs definitely but they may have been just inspired
the majolica production in Pisa, Pistoia, and much of Tuscany.
In Spain potters were smelting the tin for their tin glaze in ther rear of their fire boxes as the kilns fired. Tin glaze was a precious comodity and
rightly so.
IMHO tin glaze (majolica) was the big advancement in ceramics of this period as well as stoneware salt glaze of the 12th Cent. germany. If you want more
discussion please email me directly. I have taught the history of ceramics in US and abroad.
Marcia Selsor
"Elisa M. Francovilla 95" wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm interested in finding out what kinds of potting techniques were practiced in the middle ages - were they throwing on a wheel yet, or hand-forming?
>
> Specifically, I'm interested in finding out about what the practices in Europe and the Middle East were between about 800 and 1600.
>
> Any information anyone can give me would be extremely helpful.
>
> Thanks!
> ______________________________________________________________________________ Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Martin Howard on thu 20 jun 02
The Romans had wheels.
But then when they left Britain, it seems that the method had to be
re-invented.
Certainly by medieval times wheels were the regular method of production of
round objects.
I imagined in one demonstration I did for an Esperanto weekend, that a local
potter say a wheel fall off a cart, roll into the river mud and spin with
its axle stuck in the clayey mud. So he took off another wheel, set it up
and threw pots on it, using his wives and children as the motive power!
I was able to introduce quite a lot of humour into the story.
Might all be nonsense of course, but when the Romans had to leave Britain,
not all their ideas were continued. It is difficult to know what stuck and
what had to be reinvented.
Martin Howard
Webbs Cottage Pottery
Woolpits Road, Great Saling
BRAINTREE, Essex CM7 5DZ
01371 850 423
martin@webbscottage.co.uk
http://www.webbscottage.co.uk
Updated 15th May 2002
william schran on thu 20 jun 02
Elisa - There's lots of information online. Try a search on
www.google.com and enter key words: "pottery+europe+middle+ages". I
found hundreds of sites.
Bill
Longtin, Jeff on thu 20 jun 02
Elisa,
To follow up on the great info Marcia provided:
The Italians are credited with "inventing" plaster in the 1500's. They were
using plaster molds soon thereafter. I don't know how soon they were slip
casting however.
Take care
Jeff Longtin
-----Original Message-----
From: Marcia Selsor [mailto:selsor@IMT.NET]
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 7:19 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: History Question
Elisa,
Yes they were throwing but also were using various mold techniques. A great
book for you to read would be the Three Books of the Potters Art by
Piccalpasso mid 1500s in Italy. He documented production techniques in Italy
focusing mostly on tin glaze.
Meanwhile in Spain, from 12-1400 luster ware took the lead in Manises
(Valencia) as well as the Islamic strongholds of Sevilla and Granada.
!200 marked the beginning of Salt Glaze in Germany. Hard paste porcelain was
develop in the later 1500s. There was a lot going on.
BTW the wheel was thought to have been in use in 2700 BCE in the middle
east.
Tin Glaze ( majolica) began around 1000 in Persia and spread with Islam into
north Africa and then Spain, Majorca, and into Italy. I have recently
noticed Islamic or tinglazed bowls decorating 11 and 12th century churches.
The bowls have Islamic motifs definitely but they may have been just
inspired
the majolica production in Pisa, Pistoia, and much of Tuscany.
In Spain potters were smelting the tin for their tin glaze in ther rear of
their fire boxes as the kilns fired. Tin glaze was a precious comodity and
rightly so.
IMHO tin glaze (majolica) was the big advancement in ceramics of this period
as well as stoneware salt glaze of the 12th Cent. germany. If you want more
discussion please email me directly. I have taught the history of ceramics
in US and abroad.
Marcia Selsor
"Elisa M. Francovilla 95" wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm interested in finding out what kinds of potting techniques were
practiced in the middle ages - were they throwing on a wheel yet, or
hand-forming?
>
> Specifically, I'm interested in finding out about what the practices in
Europe and the Middle East were between about 800 and 1600.
>
> Any information anyone can give me would be extremely helpful.
>
> Thanks!
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__ Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Richard Jeffery on thu 20 jun 02
Martin
i hate to bicker on an off-topic post, but what were the round things that
kept Celtic chariots off the turf?
Richard Jeffery
Web Design and Photography
www.theeleventhweb.co.uk
Bournemouth UK
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of Martin Howard
Sent: 20 June 2002 08:42
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: History Question
The Romans had wheels.
But then when they left Britain, it seems that the method had to be
re-invented.
Certainly by medieval times wheels were the regular method of production of
round objects.
I imagined in one demonstration I did for an Esperanto weekend, that a local
potter say a wheel fall off a cart, roll into the river mud and spin with
its axle stuck in the clayey mud. So he took off another wheel, set it up
and threw pots on it, using his wives and children as the motive power!
I was able to introduce quite a lot of humour into the story.
Might all be nonsense of course, but when the Romans had to leave Britain,
not all their ideas were continued. It is difficult to know what stuck and
what had to be reinvented.
Martin Howard
Webbs Cottage Pottery
Woolpits Road, Great Saling
BRAINTREE, Essex CM7 5DZ
01371 850 423
martin@webbscottage.co.uk
http://www.webbscottage.co.uk
Updated 15th May 2002
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Jim V Brooks on thu 20 jun 02
The round things that kept the chariots off the turf...were the heads of
those that strayed onto the turf..... and it worked...... just kidding
!...... jim in denton...
Darcy Giesseman on thu 20 jun 02
Yes, there was indeed much happening.
My research shows that hard paste porcelain was developed in China far
earlier than the late 1500s. Before the formula for hard paste porcelain
was finally refined there was proto-porcelain. Decoration of it started
with designs directly into the porcelain then progressed to underglaze
painted decoration (e.g., the famous blue-and-white schemes). By the 1400s
in China overglaze "enamel painting upon porcelain" (now variously called
among other things "china painting") was being done.
Importation into Europe of porcelain pieces was done. Europe in general was
simply "crazy" for porcelain and it seemed that "everyone" was endeavoring
to discern and "crack" the Chinese's formula so they could domestically
manufacture it rather than paying the Chinese's fees and importation costs.
For approximately 12 years during the late 1500s the granducal workshops of
the Medicis in Italy were experimenting with "cracking" the Chinese formula
for hard-paste porcelain. Their wares are now known as "Medici porcelain".
It is rumored that only about 60 pieces survive worldwide. They are largely
experimental wares. Ultimately the Italian Medicis did not produce
hard-paste porcelain, but they did successfully produce Europe's first
soft-paste porcelain wares!
If you e-mail me privately I'd be happy to send you a bibliography of books
covering ceramics of the Middle Ages and Renaissance.
If you belong to the SCA there is also a potters' e-mail discussion list to
which
you may subscribe.
Marcia, if you have research to the contrary that would add to mine I'd
appreciate the sources.
Thanks for the opportunity to contribute to the discussion. Since I'm
primarily a "china painter" I rarely have anything to contribute about
making pottery. I appreciate the opportunity to learn more of the making of
wares by reading Clayart. Maybe one day I'll be able to have a high-fire
kiln.
Regards,
Darcy Giesseman
(SCA: Lady Darcellena Hartmann)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marcia Selsor"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: History Question
> Elisa,
Hard paste porcelain was develop in the later 1500s. There was a lot going
on.
> Marcia Selsor
>
>
> "Elisa M. Francovilla 95" wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > I'm interested in finding out what kinds of potting techniques were
practiced in the middle ages - were they throwing on a wheel yet, or
hand-forming?
> >
> > Specifically, I'm interested in finding out about what the practices in
Europe and the Middle East were between about 800 and 1600.
> >
> > Any information anyone can give me would be extremely helpful.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
____________________________________________________________________________
__ Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Marcia Selsor on fri 21 jun 02
>Dear Darcy,
I have not yet visited the Porcelain museum in the Boboli gardens of the
Medici Palace.
I didn't know that hard paste porcelain was ever produced in China.
There is always much to know.
Best regards,
Marcia
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
--
Marcia Selsor
selsor@imt.net
http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls
http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls/Tuscany2002.html
| |
|
