Richard Mahaffey on sat 22 jun 02
With all of this talk about underselling, I am reminded of the last
empty bowls that I attended around here. I was in line with a very nice
porcelain bowl that no
one seemed to like, they wanted the ":Arty" ones. Any the two people
in line in front of me, with several boxes of bowls, were talking about
how great this
was. I said "yes, it is great to see the community support the food
banks" and one of them said. " no I meant I can buy presents for
everyone cheaply". It was
then that I realized that we were training them that bowls were worth
$10.00. I wonder, if the sales of small bowls will eventually be hurt
by the Empty Bowls phenomenon.
What do you think? Are we guilty of underselling ourselves?
Rick
Marta Matray Gloviczki on sat 22 jun 02
sam miller wrote:
>Ultimately, I tend to side with the idea that well crafted ceramics work is
>worth more than the Pottery Barn/ K-mart cheapo stuff. I also believe
>that there is some subtle psychology going on when a consumer sees
>something that's cheap - they start to view it as a commodity and perhaps
>desire it less.
that is so true! at the college here, the kids were selling their pots at
the end of the year and i put several small vases on their table, simple
little vases i used as glaze tests. i priced them at 2 dollars each.
a lady stopped by, picked up three of my best glaze test vases and wanted
to give me $60 in three 20 dollar bills.
when i told her that they are six bucks all together, she gave me a dirty
look, turned around and left without buying.
obviously she didnt want cheap stuff.
it was an interesting experience and i think about this often, when pricing
my pots for our coop gallery.
marta
i`ve just got back home after beeing away and reading no clayart mail for
two weeks, so hopefully i didnt repeat anyone else`s opinion on this (*_*)
marta matray gloviczki
http://www.silverhawk.com/crafts/gloviczki/welcome.html
http://www.mypots.com/Marta.htm
Leslie Ihde on sat 22 jun 02
Actually, I think it would be great if some of the experienced people
could suggest a range of prices for various items. I know it would be
ball park, but maybe a few suggestions could help those of us who sell
less seriously or less often figure out how to do it. Clay is cheap,
labor expensive, but how do you figure it. How about a few sample
prices?
Leslie Ihde
Gavin Stairs on sun 23 jun 02
At 02:54 PM 22/06/2002, Marta wrote:
>... at the college here, the kids were selling their pots at
>the end of the year and i put several small vases on their table, simple
>little vases i used as glaze tests. i priced them at 2 dollars each.
>a lady stopped by, picked up three of my best glaze test vases and wanted
>to give me $60 in three 20 dollar bills.
>when i told her that they are six bucks all together, she gave me a dirty
>look, turned around and left without buying.
Dear Marta,
What this suggests to me is that you were unknowingly demeaning your
customer's esthetic sense, by telling her that a pot that she valued at $20
was worthless. She felt that you had tricked her. Her reaction was to
disagree in the only way she felt able to. She couldn't argue with you, so
she left.
People like to buy expensive things because it validates their sense of
their own worth. This may be foolishness, but that doesn't make it
untrue. People who are fully at home in themselves don't care what others
think. They would be as happy to pay your evaluation as to pay theirs,
provided they could afford either one! And they would pass on a bargain if
it didn't serve their own purpose.
Also, by putting your own pots in with those of your students, you are
setting up a situation of misunderstanding. Of course the customers would
expect the master's work to be worth more than the students'. They
wouldn't expect that you would be showing your lesser work. That would be
undervaluing the students' work. Rather they would expect to see work that
the students could aspire to. Not being especially privy to your work
esthetic, they might well suppose that these small pots were an experiment,
or a statement somehow worthy of you the artist, and therefore worth
investment by them.
I think that you had two possibilities: show the tests clearly labelled as
tests, or price them as your own intended work. Of course, you also had
other choices: accept the proffered cash, or chuck the pots out.
All the best, Gavin
Tony Ferguson on sun 23 jun 02
Rick,
Like I said, we are our own worst enemies and few want to even talk about it
or go there because it involves being honest with ourselves and others and
admitting what want for our work without critcism from other artists or the
market. People are not going to flock to walmart to buy dishes because we
all raised our prices a bit. BUT, they will flock to the K-mart potter!
Thank you.
Tony Ferguson
Stoneware, Porcelain, Raku
www.aquariusartgallery.com
218-727-6339
315 N. Lake Ave
Apt 312
Duluth, MN 55806
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Mahaffey"
To:
Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2002 10:44 PM
Subject: underselling
> With all of this talk about underselling, I am reminded of the last
> empty bowls that I attended around here. I was in line with a very nice
> porcelain bowl that no
> one seemed to like, they wanted the ":Arty" ones. Any the two people
> in line in front of me, with several boxes of bowls, were talking about
> how great this
> was. I said "yes, it is great to see the community support the food
> banks" and one of them said. " no I meant I can buy presents for
> everyone cheaply". It was
> then that I realized that we were training them that bowls were worth
> $10.00. I wonder, if the sales of small bowls will eventually be hurt
> by the Empty Bowls phenomenon.
>
> What do you think? Are we guilty of underselling ourselves?
>
> Rick
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Paul Herman on sun 23 jun 02
Leslie and all,
One way that works for me is this. When some item is selling really
well, say mugs, and I get kinda tired of making mugs, I raise the price.
It works for me, and has caused my standard of living to rise.
Best wishes,
Hardway Herman
----------
>From: Leslie Ihde
> Clay is cheap,
> labor expensive, but how do you figure it.
Marta Matray Gloviczki on sun 23 jun 02
Gavin,
i totally agree with you, i made a mistake not to mark it clear that
those vases were tests, therefore the low price.
but you see, i always make mistakes...
when i sent my previous post to the list yesterday, i didnt make it clear,
that i was not the teacher, nor master of those kids selling their pots.
i did an independent study for the semester at the local college, so i was
a "student" too... just a little older than they are... :-))
marta
actually i am a student forever
Gavin Stairs wrote:
>Also, by putting your own pots in with those of your students, you are
>setting up a situation of misunderstanding. Of course the customers would
>expect the master's work to be worth more than the students'. They
>wouldn't expect that you would be showing your lesser work. That would be
>undervaluing the students' work. Rather they would expect to see work that
>the students could aspire to. Not being especially privy to your work
>esthetic, they might well suppose that these small pots were an experiment,
>or a statement somehow worthy of you the artist, and therefore worth
>investment by them.
>
>I think that you had two possibilities: show the tests clearly labelled as
>tests, or price them as your own intended work. Of course, you also had
>other choices: accept the proffered cash, or chuck the pots out.
>
Craig Clark on sun 23 jun 02
Rick, you have raised a difficult question. The cynical side of me
immediately responds that of course we are underselling ourselves when,
"empty bowls" in this case, go for inexpensive prices at fund raisers to
people who obviously are there for a bargain. Then again, these bargain
seekers will always be there and do nothing more than get my blood pressure
up and my soap box polished when I dwell on them for much time.
The other side of me, who I prefer, reminds me that in the end things
have a way of working themselves out, the number of pieces sold at the fund
raisers are comparitvly few, and that I do not give pieces to causes that I
support for economic gain. I have participated in, and continue to do so, a
number of fund raisers for charitable causes. I believe in the organizations
that I support, and give them my pottery. THis is an act of charity on my
part. I cannot afford to give the dollar for dollar equivalent that the pots
may or may not bring to me if and when it is placed on the open market.
Having said this, I do recommend strongly in some instances, that the
group set a minimum bid on the piece that they are trying to sell. I
generally use about 75% of what I would normally sell it for as a rule of
thumb. The rational for this is not really to keep the "value" of the work
where I believe it ought to be, but more from an irritation that I have with
many of the folks that are at the "fund raisers." This is admittedly a
personal bias.
Many of them obviously have the means to unass considerably more than
they do. THey get wined and dined, have great entertainment, and then go
looking for a good deal. I say screw the good deal mentality. Many of the
folks at the functions have more money hanging off their bodies than I make
in a year. What reeeeaaaalllllly pisses me off is when some yahoo with a
$6000 platinum watch hanging off his wrist quibbles over the cost of a $100
pot at a fund raiser. By god they can cough up the money if they have it!
THough I do digress in my mini tirade......sorry.
To finish where I began, I don't think that in the grand picture we are
underselling ourselves when we donate pieces to charitable organizations to
help them with their indespensible work.
Craig Dunn Clark
619 East 11 1/2 st
Houston, Texas 77008
(713)861-2083
mudman@hal-pc.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Mahaffey"
To:
Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 12:44 AM
Subject: underselling
> With all of this talk about underselling, I am reminded of the last
> empty bowls that I attended around here. I was in line with a very nice
> porcelain bowl that no
> one seemed to like, they wanted the ":Arty" ones. Any the two people
> in line in front of me, with several boxes of bowls, were talking about
> how great this
> was. I said "yes, it is great to see the community support the food
> banks" and one of them said. " no I meant I can buy presents for
> everyone cheaply". It was
> then that I realized that we were training them that bowls were worth
> $10.00. I wonder, if the sales of small bowls will eventually be hurt
> by the Empty Bowls phenomenon.
>
> What do you think? Are we guilty of underselling ourselves?
>
> Rick
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Hank Murrow on mon 24 jun 02
Richard Mahaffey wrote;
>With all of this talk about underselling, I am reminded of the last
>empty bowls that I attended around here. I was in line with a very nice
>porcelain bowl that no
>one seemed to like, they wanted the ":Arty" ones. Any the two people
>in line in front of me, with several boxes of bowls, were talking about
>how great this
>was. I said "yes, it is great to see the community support the food
>banks" and one of them said. " no I meant I can buy presents for
>everyone cheaply". It was
>then that I realized that we were training them that bowls were worth
>$10.00. I wonder, if the sales of small bowls will eventually be hurt
>by the Empty Bowls phenomenon.
>
>What do you think? Are we guilty of underselling ourselves?
Dear Richard;
For my first Empty Bowls event, I made fifty bowls each
having a small figure hanging on the rim, and priced (as all the
bowls were) at $10. You can see one @
http://www.murrow.biz/hank/metaphorical.htm . I delivered the bowls
to the gallery and went to an early dinner. Got back to the gallery
15 minutes after the start to find all but one bowl sold. never had a
chance to see who bought the others. The next year, I made the bowls
again and they were auctioned off for an average of $90 each. There
is a place for all types of bowls, and local bowl events should
recognize this and act accordingly. Our Local Clay group has both the
ten dollar bowls and the silent auction for more ambitious ones.
Best, Hank
Sarah House on tue 25 jun 02
Tom wrote:
> I understand why "professional potters" get aggravated by "amateurs" who
> place low prices on their wares; I also understand why "amatuers" place low
> prices on their wares.
I haven't been reading this discussion much in the last few days, but from
my point of view it's not the amateurs that are underselling. Amateurs can't
make enough pots to pose much of a threat. It's the pros. Last month at a
fair I talked to a potter who does 40 fairs a year selling most of his pots
at around %50 of the prices I would charge for similar sized pieces. I don't
dispute that my effort and product was worth more, but how does it make good
since to someone to make work below their skill level and do 40 shows a
year? That's a retorical question, no answer needed. Maybe next time we see
a potter underselling their work we should suggest a good business class.
Sarah House
--
http://www.SKHPottery.com
PO Box 84
Little Switzerland, NC 28749
| |
|
