Tony Ferguson on sat 22 jun 02
Lois,
Actually,
Those are not my selling prices. Those were suggested base art fair prices
for anyone. My work is more expensive as I stated in the emails although I
have priced my work at those prices before and it seems to make no
difference to the buyers. My better teabowls go for $150 to $400. My
covered vessels go for $300 to $750. And my large orbs or vases from $1000
to $2000 depending on the size and how well they turned out. All work is
laborously wood fired in my small Anagama that I built by myself with most
if not all works single fired, no bisquit. Except for the last firing as I
have recently acquired a very kind and hard working apprentice, I am a one
man show--I do everything because I have to for financial reasons and
reasons of artistic expression.
You see, my desire is for all potters to make a descent, respectable
living--it is not about me as many of your posts presume AND I could care
less if someone else drives an SUV--I've always been a point A to point B
man with a family of do it yourselfers, engineers, builders, fixers,
garbagemen and mechanics. It is the principle of honest business, the
honoring and consideration of others right and ability to do so as well.
Tony
Thank you.
Tony Ferguson
Stoneware, Porcelain, Raku
www.aquariusartgallery.com
218-727-6339
315 N. Lake Ave
Apt 312
Duluth, MN 55806
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lois Ruben Aronow"
To:
Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2002 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: Underselling other artists
> Well, Tony. I had a chuckle. Some of your prices are considerably
> lower than mine, and some are the same. I get $18-20 for a mug. $55
> for a medium bowl, and about $150 or so for a very large platter. My
> 14" got for about $125.
>
> I ask between $85 and $125 for a teapot, depending on if it is altered
> or has a cane/wire/other than clay/handmade handle.
>
> $40 for a plate.
>
> My newer work, with the textured glaze, goes for about $70 for a vase
> and $55 for a small covered vessel. When people see them as vessels
> (such as the ones on my website) they feel they are priced correctly.
> Some people see them as sugar bowls, and feel the price is too high.
> The eye of the beholder. (In the words of Antoine de Saint Exupery -
> "Is it a hat, or a boa with an elephant inside?")
>
> Whatever.
>
>
> >tumbler--$12 minimum
> >mug-- $16
> >larger mug/steiner--$24
> >
> >very small bowl $10
> >sm bowl $15
> >med $45
> >large $125
> >
> >Plate $35
> >Large 18" platter $125
> >
> >There are many other forms, sizes, and price ranges. Let's keep this
going
> >and see what other forms we can add by other people.
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------
> Lois Ruben Aronow
> gilois@bellatlantic.net
>
> Fine Craft Porcelain
> http://www.loisaronow.com - Newly updated!
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Ingeborg Foco on sat 22 jun 02
Hi Tony,
Underselling is a "hot" topic. I think pricing is one of the most difficult
things a potter can do. You have a studio full of pots....all kinds of pots
and you look at each pot trying to figure out what kind of $ sticker to put
on all the while trying to keep in mind that the objective is to
sell pots (for as much as you can get). It is doubly difficult if you don't
have a line so to speak.
It tends to go a bit like this: pot has a
little drip...does that make it a second or a little less expensive than the
one without the drip...oh wait, the "perfect" pot has a handle that isn't
quite straight...so now what does that mean, is it worth less than the one
with the drip or does it go into the seconds bin. This bowl is a bit larger
than that one but the glaze is just so so and the questions go on and on.
Pricing is an exercise that can make you crazy and waste a lot of time in
the process
Under pricing isn't always the real issue either. A long time
ago I was doing a show and my pots were flying off the shelf. It's a great
feeling. I saw the other potters making snide remarks and giving me
looks...those kind of looks i.e. her pots are inferior our pots are
wonderful. Hers are selling only because they are so cheap! They decided
to lower their prices to match mine and guess what, their pots still didn't
sell. Could it be that people actually liked my pots better! Hmmmm
Price isn't always the issue. There are some people who shop by price and
price alone. Other people shop by style, color, and so forth. Some people
will only buy the highest priced item. Some can't afford to buy anything
but will stretch to buy a pot because they appreciate it. The reasons are
many and varied. There are arenas where only less expensive pots will sell.
If you are selling at a local street fair you generally will get less than
if you are being showcased in a fine gallery.
To calculate time, materials, overhead and profit to come up with a price
for a piece of pottery is valid and a good starting point. However, in a
free market society you will still have to convince the buying public that
your pots are worth that much. Just because you have a big mortgage and 10
mouths to feed does not make your pots worth more. To say that we will not
sell a ___________for less than $20 sounds very much like price fixing and
is illegal in this country. So what is the answer?
Tony, maybe you could give us a "suggested retail price list" for basic
items that would give all of us an idea of a good starting point. If you
have good way of approaching the pricing dilemma (table full of pots
staring at you waiting for a price sticker) I would love to hear how you go
about it. I am about to have a table full of pots ready for pricing.
Sincerely,
Ingeborg
Tony Ferguson on sat 22 jun 02
Ingeborg,
I hate pricing and I will always hate pricing. It is not fun for me because
I don't like putting a number on my work. It doesn't like that. It sneers
back and me and says, "what the hell, don't you think I am priceless."
I then have to have a talk with my pots, "yes, but I need to sell your ass
so I can take care of my own." They grumble, complain, and are finally
still. I believe I hear them shouting insults as they are carried away or
when I mail them off--"I'm going to be used for potatoes...I am going to
collect dust...he he."
The only way I learned about pricing was from going to art fairs--as some
say, from observing what the market will bear. Some folks believe make a
ton of pots and sell them cheap--I would say great macho man but your back
isn't going to last forever. Others think differently. I am kind of in a new
dilemma because now there is the internet market--I can get much more for my
work, what I believe its worth on the internet, than what I can sell it for
at an art fair. Example: I can sell my teabowls barely for $10 to $100 at
an art fair. On the internet, $300. Now, I have not done any of the
largest art fairs in the country yet: Cherry Creek, Coconut Grove, Uptown,
Ann Arbor, etc and I hope too soon where maybe I will do $3000 to $8000.
This would be nice and I think with a good body of work its possible for
anyone. Pricing pieces: well, this is a hard one. I am not talking price
fixing, I am talking minimum, suggested retail price kind of thinking. So,
let's try this and I hope others will contribute.
Art fair prices: (this is for a basic shape, nothing fancy, without
consideration for glaze treatment, firing process, etc). I also am starting
to think as my friends--amount of space a work takes up in the kiln, etc.
Also, what I define as a small bowl may be really small or more medium to
someone else--maybe a way to do this is by pounds?
tumbler--$12 minimum
mug-- $16
larger mug/steiner--$24
very small bowl $10
sm bowl $15
med $45
large $125
Plate $35
Large 18" platter $125
There are many other forms, sizes, and price ranges. Let's keep this going
and see what other forms we can add by other people.
Thank you.
Tony Ferguson
Stoneware, Porcelain, Raku
www.aquariusartgallery.com
218-727-6339
315 N. Lake Ave
Apt 312
Duluth, MN 55806
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ingeborg Foco"
To:
Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2002 4:53 AM
Subject: Re: Underselling other artists
> Hi Tony,
>
> Underselling is a "hot" topic. I think pricing is one of the most
difficult
> things a potter can do. You have a studio full of pots....all kinds of
pots
> and you look at each pot trying to figure out what kind of $ sticker to
put
> on all the while trying to keep in mind that the objective is to
> sell pots (for as much as you can get). It is doubly difficult if you
don't
> have a line so to speak.
>
> It tends to go a bit like this: pot has a
> little drip...does that make it a second or a little less expensive than
the
> one without the drip...oh wait, the "perfect" pot has a handle that isn't
> quite straight...so now what does that mean, is it worth less than the one
> with the drip or does it go into the seconds bin. This bowl is a bit
larger
> than that one but the glaze is just so so and the questions go on and
on.
> Pricing is an exercise that can make you crazy and waste a lot of time in
> the process
>
>
>
> Under pricing isn't always the real issue either. A long time
> ago I was doing a show and my pots were flying off the shelf. It's a
great
> feeling. I saw the other potters making snide remarks and giving me
> looks...those kind of looks i.e. her pots are inferior our pots are
> wonderful. Hers are selling only because they are so cheap! They
decided
> to lower their prices to match mine and guess what, their pots still
didn't
> sell. Could it be that people actually liked my pots better! Hmmmm
>
> Price isn't always the issue. There are some people who shop by price and
> price alone. Other people shop by style, color, and so forth. Some
people
> will only buy the highest priced item. Some can't afford to buy anything
> but will stretch to buy a pot because they appreciate it. The reasons are
> many and varied. There are arenas where only less expensive pots will
sell.
> If you are selling at a local street fair you generally will get less than
> if you are being showcased in a fine gallery.
>
> To calculate time, materials, overhead and profit to come up with a price
> for a piece of pottery is valid and a good starting point. However, in a
> free market society you will still have to convince the buying public that
> your pots are worth that much. Just because you have a big mortgage and
10
> mouths to feed does not make your pots worth more. To say that we will
not
> sell a ___________for less than $20 sounds very much like price fixing and
> is illegal in this country. So what is the answer?
>
> Tony, maybe you could give us a "suggested retail price list" for basic
> items that would give all of us an idea of a good starting point. If you
> have good way of approaching the pricing dilemma (table full of pots
> staring at you waiting for a price sticker) I would love to hear how you
go
> about it. I am about to have a table full of pots ready for pricing.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Ingeborg
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Lois Ruben Aronow on sat 22 jun 02
Well, Tony. I had a chuckle. Some of your prices are considerably
lower than mine, and some are the same. I get $18-20 for a mug. $55
for a medium bowl, and about $150 or so for a very large platter. My
14" got for about $125. =20
I ask between $85 and $125 for a teapot, depending on if it is altered
or has a cane/wire/other than clay/handmade handle. =20
$40 for a plate. =20
My newer work, with the textured glaze, goes for about $70 for a vase
and $55 for a small covered vessel. When people see them as vessels
(such as the ones on my website) they feel they are priced correctly.
Some people see them as sugar bowls, and feel the price is too high.
The eye of the beholder. (In the words of Antoine de Saint Exupery -
"Is it a hat, or a boa with an elephant inside?")
Whatever.
>tumbler--$12 minimum
>mug-- $16
>larger mug/steiner--$24
>
>very small bowl $10
>sm bowl $15
>med $45
>large $125
>
>Plate $35
>Large 18" platter $125
>
>There are many other forms, sizes, and price ranges. Let's keep this =
going
>and see what other forms we can add by other people.
>
--------------------------------------------
Lois Ruben Aronow
gilois@bellatlantic.net
=46ine Craft Porcelain
http://www.loisaronow.com - Newly updated!
Craig Clark on sun 23 jun 02
My work is raku so the price comparisons with funcitonal and/or
production work are not comparable, but, for what it's
worth............small "offering" bowls go for 10 to 15 dollars. Meduim
sized bowls (8 to 14 inches in diameter without decorative foot rings) start
at 45 dollars and go to 95 dollars. If the pots have nice classical foot
rings, which I prefer, I add another 30% to the sticker (the labor is much
more involved.) Bowls getting into the larger catagory (15 inch diameter and
more start at 120 dollars. These prices are all for straight (meaning
unaltered) work.
Plates of the 12 inch and slightly larger variety start at 45 dollars.
Platters begin at 150 dollars, though I don't have as much luck selling
them.
Altered bowls, plates and bottles all start around 75 dollars, except
for the smaller pieces.
My better bottles, classical forms primarily, start at 110 dollars for
12 to 14 inch tall pieces and go up from there. Any bottle, with a simple
form, over 16 inches or so starts at 150 dollars. When I'm doing footed
amphora the prices double.
One hard learned lesson is that I've eaten my own rear end a few times
on visions of a quick buck from commission pieces. What I try to do now when
someone wants me to do a specific piece is double the price that I would
charge if they were to otherwise pick a piece out of the available
inventory. Don't know yet wither or not this will be sufficient.
The vast majority of my work is sold through shows or walk up customers
to my shop and the good ole "holiday studio sale". I obviously have to pay
booth fees, but do not have to pay any gallery or dealers. When I do sell
through a gallery the prices are doubled.
My observations at shows of other potters with similar work, (not too
many in that I tend to focus on those old boring classical footed forms that
I truly love), is that I'm about the middle of the pack.
I've been gradually increasing my prices over the past several years.
Hope this adds to the discussion
Craig Dunn Clark
619 East 11 1/2 st
Houston, Texas 77008
(713)861-2083
mudman@hal-pc.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lois Ruben Aronow"
To:
Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2002 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: Underselling other artists
Well, Tony. I had a chuckle. Some of your prices are considerably
lower than mine, and some are the same. I get $18-20 for a mug. $55
for a medium bowl, and about $150 or so for a very large platter. My
14" got for about $125.
I ask between $85 and $125 for a teapot, depending on if it is altered
or has a cane/wire/other than clay/handmade handle.
$40 for a plate.
My newer work, with the textured glaze, goes for about $70 for a vase
and $55 for a small covered vessel. When people see them as vessels
(such as the ones on my website) they feel they are priced correctly.
Some people see them as sugar bowls, and feel the price is too high.
The eye of the beholder. (In the words of Antoine de Saint Exupery -
"Is it a hat, or a boa with an elephant inside?")
Whatever.
>tumbler--$12 minimum
>mug-- $16
>larger mug/steiner--$24
>
>very small bowl $10
>sm bowl $15
>med $45
>large $125
>
>Plate $35
>Large 18" platter $125
>
>There are many other forms, sizes, and price ranges. Let's keep this going
>and see what other forms we can add by other people.
>
--------------------------------------------
Lois Ruben Aronow
gilois@bellatlantic.net
Fine Craft Porcelain
http://www.loisaronow.com - Newly updated!
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
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