RPeckham@COOKSONELECTRONICS.COM on wed 26 jun 02
Was this guy really underselling? Do people who have ramped up to 40
shows a year really undersell?
As pottery manufacturers our materials, and firing costs are a minimal
percentage of our final cost, our hourly rate for us, and our facility is
the largest part of our finished cost. If we produce 20 vases an hour we
have to charge 1/20th our facility's hourly rate. If we make 5 an hour we
have to charge 1/5th our facility's hourly rate. Some potters have more
expensive facilities to run, more equipment higher rent, higher firing
cost per pot, etc. Some potters can only make 5 vases an hour some can
make 20, or 40. Some spend 3 days on one vase.
If you are a good volume producer, and you move your product, your costs
will be less than if you produce less, and sit on it waiting for the right
buyer.
I mean, I am new so my production rate isn't as high as what mel has
suggested, but in a couple of hours I can make about 30 mugs, with
handles. I can also spend a couple of hours, and make 6 mugs. If he is
making enough merchandise to sell at 50% of other potters value at 40
shows a year, he is probably doing some decent volume.
Volume is the key to lower costs. I have been in industry for 10 years,
and I know when we are making a prototype of a machine it costs almost as
much to make 1 as it does to make 3. Setup time is the killer. You can
amortise that 6 hours of setup over 1 piece that takes 35 minutes to run
on a CNC machine, or 3 that take 1 1/2 hours. End result is you pay a
small percent more, and build 3 prototypes.
In pottery we have high volume producers, and we have one of a kind
producers, and everything in between. I remember a posting from mel about
producing teapots. I think he mentioned 20 in one afternoon. Many people
on the list doubted that. I didn't. He seems like a no shit kind of guy.
I also think there are equally hard working people on this list that take
days to finish one teapot. Is there a relation between the two for
costing? Shit no!
If his stuff was a relatively simple design, maybe he is just very good at
production. Maybe he can bang out 40 nice teapots a day, or 120 mugs a
day, or 200 vases a day. Maybe his last job was at Frito-Lay packing
potato chip bags into boxes at a rate of 60 bags a minute for $12/hr, and
he is happy as a pig in shit to be making pots with the same discipline,
for the same amount of money.
Teabowls are another example that I see. If you can charge $400 dollars
for a teabowl that takes time, and a large amount of skill, and someone
else makes inferior teabowls at a rate of 300 per day, and the vast
majority of the public can't tell the difference between a poorly thrown
cup, and a nicely done teabowl, what does this other guy sell his bowl
for? $10, $20? When will he not be considered underselling? If you want
to make $400 teabowls, and can't sell enough because someone else is
selling $20 teabowls you have to find a new market because you can't
compete in that one. Not to say that people won't pay $400 for a teabowl,
but if they are buying his for $20 instead of yours for $400 you can't
blame the other guy for selling something that is actually priced
correctly for his costs.
I find it hard to believe that somone would take the hit of working hard
enough to sell at 40 shows a year, and make no money at it. Mass
production isn't that much fun, and packing, and setting up almost every
weekend for shows I think would lose it's pizazz relatively quickly if no
money was coming in.
Maybe it happens more than I realize though.
KLeSueur@AOL.COM on wed 26 jun 02
<>
Can we please avoid the profanity here. I think any intelligent writer ( and this one seems to be intelligent) can find ways to express themselves without the need to use such language.
Kathi LeSueur
Ned Ludd on wed 26 jun 02
RPeckham@COOKSONELECTRONICS.COM wrote
>I find it hard to believe that somone would take the hit of working hard
>enough to sell at 40 shows a year, and make no money at it. Mass
>production isn't that much fun, and packing, and setting up almost every
>weekend for shows I think would lose it's pizazz relatively quickly if no
>money was coming in.
Can you say Protestant Work Ethic? Goes back to Calvin at least: you
were born guilty, but with Nature as raw material to be industriously
turned into goods, you may yet justify your wretched life before God
and congregation.
Even if there is no profit in it, the devout PWE follower knows he is
going to heaven, just like a martyr. Just try and stop him.
Another crummy way to miss the point of life, IMHO.
best
Ned
Tony Ferguson on wed 26 jun 02
I know some pretty dam good potters who are prolithic throwers, marketers of
their work, etc and they CAN'T do 40 shows a year. I would be willing to
bet he utilizes industrial production methods or has a lot of help. That is
a show every 9 days not accounting for production, packing, kiln cooling,
traveling, etc, etc. I don't think so.
Thank you.
Tony Ferguson
Stoneware, Porcelain, Raku
www.aquariusartgallery.com
218-727-6339
315 N. Lake Ave
Apt 312
Duluth, MN 55806
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 7:09 AM
Subject: underselling--40 shows a year?
> Was this guy really underselling? Do people who have ramped up to 40
> shows a year really undersell?
>
> As pottery manufacturers our materials, and firing costs are a minimal
> percentage of our final cost, our hourly rate for us, and our facility is
> the largest part of our finished cost. If we produce 20 vases an hour we
> have to charge 1/20th our facility's hourly rate. If we make 5 an hour we
> have to charge 1/5th our facility's hourly rate. Some potters have more
> expensive facilities to run, more equipment higher rent, higher firing
> cost per pot, etc. Some potters can only make 5 vases an hour some can
> make 20, or 40. Some spend 3 days on one vase.
>
> If you are a good volume producer, and you move your product, your costs
> will be less than if you produce less, and sit on it waiting for the right
> buyer.
>
> I mean, I am new so my production rate isn't as high as what mel has
> suggested, but in a couple of hours I can make about 30 mugs, with
> handles. I can also spend a couple of hours, and make 6 mugs. If he is
> making enough merchandise to sell at 50% of other potters value at 40
> shows a year, he is probably doing some decent volume.
>
> Volume is the key to lower costs. I have been in industry for 10 years,
> and I know when we are making a prototype of a machine it costs almost as
> much to make 1 as it does to make 3. Setup time is the killer. You can
> amortise that 6 hours of setup over 1 piece that takes 35 minutes to run
> on a CNC machine, or 3 that take 1 1/2 hours. End result is you pay a
> small percent more, and build 3 prototypes.
>
> In pottery we have high volume producers, and we have one of a kind
> producers, and everything in between. I remember a posting from mel about
> producing teapots. I think he mentioned 20 in one afternoon. Many people
> on the list doubted that. I didn't. He seems like a no shit kind of guy.
> I also think there are equally hard working people on this list that take
> days to finish one teapot. Is there a relation between the two for
> costing? Shit no!
>
> If his stuff was a relatively simple design, maybe he is just very good at
> production. Maybe he can bang out 40 nice teapots a day, or 120 mugs a
> day, or 200 vases a day. Maybe his last job was at Frito-Lay packing
> potato chip bags into boxes at a rate of 60 bags a minute for $12/hr, and
> he is happy as a pig in shit to be making pots with the same discipline,
> for the same amount of money.
>
> Teabowls are another example that I see. If you can charge $400 dollars
> for a teabowl that takes time, and a large amount of skill, and someone
> else makes inferior teabowls at a rate of 300 per day, and the vast
> majority of the public can't tell the difference between a poorly thrown
> cup, and a nicely done teabowl, what does this other guy sell his bowl
> for? $10, $20? When will he not be considered underselling? If you want
> to make $400 teabowls, and can't sell enough because someone else is
> selling $20 teabowls you have to find a new market because you can't
> compete in that one. Not to say that people won't pay $400 for a teabowl,
> but if they are buying his for $20 instead of yours for $400 you can't
> blame the other guy for selling something that is actually priced
> correctly for his costs.
>
>
> I find it hard to believe that somone would take the hit of working hard
> enough to sell at 40 shows a year, and make no money at it. Mass
> production isn't that much fun, and packing, and setting up almost every
> weekend for shows I think would lose it's pizazz relatively quickly if no
> money was coming in.
>
> Maybe it happens more than I realize though.
>
>
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>
Steve Dalton on fri 28 jun 02
on 6/26/02 6:09 AM, RPeckham@COOKSONELECTRONICS.COM at
RPeckham@COOKSONELECTRONICS.COM wrote:
> Do people who have ramped up to 40
> shows a year really undersell?
Typically, I might have 40 sales/shows a years, but I don't undersell. I'm
probably a volumn producer as well and I will not undersell! I don't
believe in underselling. The only time I lower my prices is for one
sale...the Artist's Garage Sale. Here, I can get rid of old stock and
seconds. And I want them gone!
--
Steve Dalton
Clear Creek Pottery
Snohomish, Wa
sdpotter@gte.net
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