primalmommy on sun 7 jul 02
Terry Sullivan wrote:
"We all know lots of ceramists
who pay little attention to clay and dust in their studio and work who
have done so for many decades and show no indication of it adversely
affecting their health ( Peter Volkos, Phill Cornelius, Paul Soldner to
name a few )."
My impression of Peter Volkous was that he was NOT the picture of
health. While it would be hard to point a cancer or health problem
directly to clay (or glaze chemicals, or cigars, or whiskey, or bronze
casting fumes, or assorted substances abused) -- Peter Volkous was the
sickest man I ever saw still working and walking around, age
notwithstanding. Maybe the point is that we never know which exposure is
"the one" -- we have no idea what causes ALS, of MS, or parkinsons. We
can't even prove "scientifically" that smoking causes cancer, because
there are so many other toxins we're all exposed to from conception
onward.
It struck me as odd to see Volkous as an example, I guess. But I always
think it's irresponsible to suggest that potters be LESS cautious about
anything. Sure, choose for yourself, based on your own gut feeling --
and I for one hope you're right. But I wouldn't want it on my conscience
if someone followed my "don't worry about it" advice and got sick...
Yours, Kelly in Ohio
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Marianne Lombardo on mon 8 jul 02
Dear Kelly;
Back in April, an Ottawa potter named Jim Thomson visited our Potter's Guild
meeting. He had some very interesting work to show us, and a nice slide
show.
One of the slides had a picture of Peter Volkos working on a pot. I
thought, so that is Peter Volkos --- why is his hair green? Jim said that
Peter Volkos hair had turned green from some of the stuff he used in his
glazes. I forget specifically what he said had caused it. Whatever it was,
Volkos' hair was a very bright vivid green.
Marianne Lombardo
Omemee, Ontario, Canada
>My impression of Peter Volkous was that he was NOT the picture of
>health. While it would be hard to point a cancer or health problem
Alisa Liskin Clausen on mon 8 jul 02
Thanks you Kelly for saving me some writing.
Since I sent the message about a young published ceramist suggesting glazes
with 30% plus Manganese,
I am have been even more disappointed by the responses of people saying
well, hey, I am still here.
Damn it.
I can get mad. real mad.
How many Chief Engineers did I work for that said, I have been exposed to
asbestos for years and no side effects here.
When we all got exposed to very high levels of asbetos at a drydock and the
dock made a class action suit against the company, what did I say to myself?
No harm, Ulf, Alf and Reidulf are still kicking. So, what is the moral? I
should not worry about being exposed to asbestos despite the studies finding
it to be dangerous? Or should I consider the findings of people who spend a
lot of time researching these things and give them the benefit of my doubts?
My intention of siting these recipes was to illustrate that newly graduated
students are not uniformily getting important information, or if they are,
some chose to ignore it. This book is authored by a very talented "cool"
young man. If I liked his work and read these recipes and had no clue about
the hazard, I would try them right out.
Getting sick is a crap shoot. Great. A lot of people live long lives
despite their unhealthy routines. Other live healthy and do not survive 40-
Some walk around with time bombs in them from birth and are lucky to get
them detected and detonated. Others do not have the luck or means.
Point is, we know that some things are really hazardous. So, even if we
chose not to protect ourselves, it is irresponsible to the millionth degree
to negate or minimalize the hazard of these materials to those learning.
They should get the right information so that they can make an educated
choice about how do handle them if they chose to use them in the studio.
This list is about teaching and learning facts as I understand it, not only
opinions. Opinions are important and facts can be challenged. But when
facts are established such as the hazards of certain materials and gobs of
information out there how to protect ourselves, why would we as a community
want to endanger our members by misleading information or hiding our head in
the sand?
With that off my chest, I know that I want to try to live as long as
possible so that my kid has a mother as long as I have had mine.
And, if I listened to my father who is 88, I would have stuffed myself a lot
more with onions, sardines and pumperknickle bread.
Plain eating.
So, as history has it, I live in a country where we eat herring in the
morning and the standard bread is black bread.
Onions optional. Well, that is two things out of the way. Now I just have
to deal with a billion unhealthy things in my modern environment.
regards from Alisa in Denmark
Good night.
terry sullivan on mon 8 jul 02
Kelly,
No where in my post did I even allude to "...don't worry about it"
regarding clay dust. My point was that it seems some folks carry a
worry about clay dust to an extream ( i did not say chemicals and glaze
materials etc. as these are potentially very dangerous). Most people
breath lots of natural clay, and other soil, dust all their lives. Life
on Planet earth.
To keep the studio cleanner than your own patio seems a bit to far.
Nonetheless; I clearly stated that using exterior exhaust vacumes, wet
dry vacumes, and water mopping are something we should use. I also
recomended always waring a good quality dust mask and not mixing clay or
glazes in the work studio. Hardly a "don't worry about it" attitude.
Regarding Volkos: Pete smoked and drank heavily all his long life. He
also did not pay much, if any, attention to dietary needs or cardio
excercise. His cancer was of the Larynx and very clearly linked to his
smoking and poor immune system. He told me this himself just a few
months after his opperation. It whern't the clay that killed him. BTW= I
didn't say Pete was healthy, only that he lived well into his 70's
despite paying no attention to clay dust whatsoever. Certainly you were
not sugesting that clay dust can cause heart failure were you ?
Yours, Terry Sullivan
Cindi Anderson on tue 9 jul 02
I generally agree with your feelings on this, I think there are people
over-obsessed, and also those not doing enough. However I have to say one
of my arguments used to be "people have been breathing dust, soils, etc. for
years..." But there recently was a large study that found that heart
disease was very highly correlated with levels of particulates in the air.
So those people "breaking dust and soil all their lives" might be being
harmed as well. So yes, it looks like clay dust can cause heart failure.
Cindi
----- Original Message -----
From: "terry sullivan"
> No where in my post did I even allude to "...don't worry about it"
> regarding clay dust. My point was that it seems some folks carry a
> worry about clay dust to an extream ( i did not say chemicals and glaze
> materials etc. as these are potentially very dangerous). Most people
> breath lots of natural clay, and other soil, dust all their lives.
Certainly you were
> not sugesting that clay dust can cause heart failure were you ?
Rick Hugel on tue 9 jul 02
Living, no matter how one does it, causes heart failure.
>I generally agree with your feelings on this, I think there are people
>over-obsessed, and also those not doing enough. However I have to say one
>of my arguments used to be "people have been breathing dust, soils, etc. for
>years..." But there recently was a large study that found that heart
>disease was very highly correlated with levels of particulates in the air.
>So those people "breaking dust and soil all their lives" might be being
>harmed as well. So yes, it looks like clay dust can cause heart failure.
>
>Cindi
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "terry sullivan"
>
>
>> No where in my post did I even allude to "...don't worry about it"
>> regarding clay dust. My point was that it seems some folks carry a
>> worry about clay dust to an extream ( i did not say chemicals and glaze
>> materials etc. as these are potentially very dangerous). Most people
>> breath lots of natural clay, and other soil, dust all their lives.
>
>Certainly you were
>> not sugesting that clay dust can cause heart failure were you ?
>
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