David Hendley on mon 5 aug 02
As usual, I enjoyed reading Kelly's thoughtful musings about
balancing art, business, and family.
I picked the title of this message from the quote from her father,
the "tycoon":
"Business is for making money. If you want friends, go to the beach."
Kelly, I find it odd that you endorse this quote as good advice.
I have spent my life trying to blur the lines between the different
aspects of my life: work and family, business and friends, learning and
play. I always considered you my greatest Clayart ally in this regard.
As for money, it is neither good nor bad.
It's just another aspect of life that you need to learn about and
make deliberate choices about.
The bad thing is when your goal changes from, for instance, making
great pottery to making lots of money from pottery.
This is the trap that saps the vitality out of many, if not most people
in today's society.
I believe in the concept of "Right Livelihood". This is the idea put
forth in Stewart Brand's "Whole Earth Catalog" philosophy of the
1970's, that the money will come if you follow your passion with
all your heart and mind.
Or, as Michael Phillips states it in "The Seven Laws of Money",
if your goal is to make a lot of money, and you are successful, you
will be a rich business (wo)man, not a rich potter.
You become what you think about.
Of course it is possible to make a living in which you can live with
yourself, enhance your community, and even make friends doing it.
You know, there is a natural progression as you grow through
different phases of your life.
Let it happen.
It is right and natural for one to eschew concentrating on business
matters when there are small children to attend to.
As the children grow up, there is more time to spend on an
income producing career. Thank goodness, because as you get older
it gets harder to work at hard manual labor for hours on end, so you
have the means to pay younger folks to do some of your chores for
you. Along about the same time, you need to be making extra money
for your children, who now need your money, more than your time,
to get themselves prepared to strike out on their own.
Kelly, I can't imagine you disagreeing with a thing I've said.
Business is not for making money. The money comes when you
"do what you do" and it serves to enrich other people's lives
in some way or another. This approach will serve you by giving
you a balance of material things as well as relationships.
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
hendley@tyler.net
http://www.farmpots.com
----- Original Message -----
> So here's my disclaimer: I speak, when I do, for myself and my own
> experience. I bear no malice to folks who do things another way. My Dad,
> who is something of a tycoon, has always said "Business is for making
> money. If you want friends, go to the beach." It's good advice, since
> the business world (like the clayart world) is not a popularity
> contest... but my dad has ended up with a lot of money and not many
> friends. To me, that's too big a price to pay. I hope to find a way to
> make a living in which I can live with myself, enhance my community, and
> keep my relationships strong. I respect those potters I know who do. And
> if you can't do that in "the real world", well, OK, I have lots of
> recipes for beans...
>
> Yours, Kelly in Ohio... tired of rehashing and ready to go do something
> else for a while.
>
Earl Brunner on tue 6 aug 02
I didn't see it as Kelly's view, I saw it as her father's view, and she mentioned
the price he pays. While one can certainly make money, and have friends, I think
that there is a certain element of truth to what she says. Being in business with
a friend can put stresses on the friendship that the friendship may not survive.
Relationships always change when the circumstances change. I think that people
that hold this view, might tend to be more aggressive in their business dealings,
more ruthless, and consequently, friendships don't or won't survive. How can you
treat a friend the way you treat someone in business if you are not nice in your
business dealings? But I didn't see Kelly advocating this as the way to do
business. I thought I even detected a bit of regret for her father.
David Hendley wrote:
> As usual, I enjoyed reading Kelly's thoughtful musings about
> balancing art, business, and family.
> I picked the title of this message from the quote from her father,
> the "tycoon":
> "Business is for making money. If you want friends, go to the beach."
> Kelly, I find it odd that you endorse this quote as good advice.
> I have spent my life trying to blur the lines between the different
> aspects of my life: work and family, business and friends, learning and
> play. I always considered you my greatest Clayart ally in this regard.
>
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
mailto:bruec@anv.net
Joan & Tom Woodward on tue 6 aug 02
I liked what you said, David, and I agree that Kelly probably agreed with
all of it. I spent my working life in the legal profession and was often
intellectually stimulated and occasionally gratified, as was the case with
some of the work I did in the civil rights area or promoting good land use.
I was a judge for the last 12 years of my full-time work, immersed in
conflict day in and day out. When I switched to mediating rather than
judging lawsuits, I felt more constructive and peaceful. But I 've been so
much happier since leaving the legal field and beginning pottery. Those who
can integrate their work world with their "heart world" are the luckiest
people, I think. For many of us, I suspect, that was hard to do.
Joan
>
Dean-Crowley, Kelley M on tue 6 aug 02
In fact, Right Livelihood is part of the Buddhist Eightfold Path introduced
way before the books that you mention. The Eightfold path is the path to
shedding suffering in this life, in preparation for nirvana. Whole Earth
and Michael Philips did not credit their source appropriately, which in the
business world is called plagiarism, and is illegal, not to mention not in
the spirit of "right livelihood".
Also be careful that you do not take Kelly's father's quote out of context.
The press does this all the time, and most people hate them for it if in
fact they realize it.
David Hendley on tue 6 aug 02
What? I find this mention of plagiarism, illegal usage, and quoting out
of context (below) in response to my earlier e-mail quite curious.
I did not submit a research paper with a bibliography, I sent an e-mail
to a discussion group, mentioning books I have read that seemed
relevant to the subject.
The idea of plagiarizing ideas from a religion seems even stranger.
Since Buddhism originated before Christianity, and has as a basic precept
to not kill other people, I guess the writers of The Bible could likewise be
accused of illegally stealing ideas from Buddhism.
For the record, I looked in the beginning pages of my 1974 edition of
"The Seven Laws of Money" to see if Michael Phillips did not, in fact,
appropriately credit his source for the term "Right Livelihood" .
He says, "Right Livelihood is something I learned from Dick Baker,
a Zen Buddhist Roshi. I don't know its origins, and I'm not certain
of its history." This doesn't exactly sound illegal or not in the right
spirit.
It was fun looking at the old book, one of my favorites, again.
I don't have a copy of the old "Whole Earth Catalog", so I can't check
it out.
As for my quoting Kelly out of context, I included her entire 11-line
paragraph that contained her father's quote at the end of my e-mail, for
all to read.
And I know for sure that Kelly does not hate me for quoting out of
context.
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
hendley@tyler.net
http://www.farmpots.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dean-Crowley, Kelley M"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: Business is for making money --- not
> In fact, Right Livelihood is part of the Buddhist Eightfold Path
introduced
> way before the books that you mention. The Eightfold path is the path to
> shedding suffering in this life, in preparation for nirvana. Whole Earth
> and Michael Philips did not credit their source appropriately, which in
the
> business world is called plagiarism, and is illegal, not to mention not in
> the spirit of "right livelihood".
>
> Also be careful that you do not take Kelly's father's quote out of
context.
> The press does this all the time, and most people hate them for it if in
> fact they realize it.
>
Rikki Gill on tue 6 aug 02
Sorry to be pedantic David, but the original writers of the Bible predate
Christianity, and were the Jews, [Hebrews] who wrote the old testament. I
do agree that Buddhism predates Judaism, And that the "eight fold path"
included "right thought," etc. I consider myself somewhat a Buddhist,
because of its insistence on an ethical mindset, separate from a belief in a
deity.
I always enjoy your posts. Hi to Karen Rikki
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Hendley"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 5:43 PM
Subject: Re: Business is for making money --- not
> What? I find this mention of plagiarism, illegal usage, and quoting out
> of context (below) in response to my earlier e-mail quite curious.
> I did not submit a research paper with a bibliography, I sent an e-mail
> to a discussion group, mentioning books I have read that seemed
> relevant to the subject.
> The idea of plagiarizing ideas from a religion seems even stranger.
> Since Buddhism originated before Christianity, and has as a basic precept
> to not kill other people, I guess the writers of The Bible could likewise
be
> accused of illegally stealing ideas from Buddhism.
>
> For the record, I looked in the beginning pages of my 1974 edition of
> "The Seven Laws of Money" to see if Michael Phillips did not, in fact,
> appropriately credit his source for the term "Right Livelihood" .
> He says, "Right Livelihood is something I learned from Dick Baker,
> a Zen Buddhist Roshi. I don't know its origins, and I'm not certain
> of its history." This doesn't exactly sound illegal or not in the right
> spirit.
> It was fun looking at the old book, one of my favorites, again.
> I don't have a copy of the old "Whole Earth Catalog", so I can't check
> it out.
>
> As for my quoting Kelly out of context, I included her entire 11-line
> paragraph that contained her father's quote at the end of my e-mail, for
> all to read.
> And I know for sure that Kelly does not hate me for quoting out of
> context.
>
> David Hendley
> Maydelle, Texas
> hendley@tyler.net
> http://www.farmpots.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dean-Crowley, Kelley M"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 12:45 PM
> Subject: Re: Business is for making money --- not
>
>
> > In fact, Right Livelihood is part of the Buddhist Eightfold Path
> introduced
> > way before the books that you mention. The Eightfold path is the path
to
> > shedding suffering in this life, in preparation for nirvana. Whole
Earth
> > and Michael Philips did not credit their source appropriately, which in
> the
> > business world is called plagiarism, and is illegal, not to mention not
in
> > the spirit of "right livelihood".
> >
> > Also be careful that you do not take Kelly's father's quote out of
> context.
> > The press does this all the time, and most people hate them for it if in
> > fact they realize it.
> >
>
>
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Cindi Anderson on fri 9 aug 02
I think there are levels of this. Certainly there are things we all would
hate to do. However, there are probably many things we could each do and
enjoy, and to some degree isn't it the attitude that makes you love or hate
something? I sometimes love pottery, and sometimes hate it. Sometimes love
running my own business, and sometimes hate it. Sometimes loved being a vp
at a computer company, sometimes hated it. I find it is usually the
circumstances (people around you, etc.) and your attitude that make you love
or hate any job.
Cindi
Stephani Stephenson on sat 10 aug 02
I am so glad there are some others out there who do make a living from
clay. I really get strength in hearing about you, reading about you,
talking to you, reading your posts/
their IS a blurring of lines when your business is your craft is your
livelihood is your
vocation is your love is your sweat is your work feeds your mouth feeds
your pockets feeds your soul.
And it is quite interesting to see the relationship develop!
It is also something I sought , when I felt my life was getting too
fragmented(day job eating the energy away from clay work). (Though now I
kind of laugh because now it is still easy to get fragmented because my
business day also involves writing and communicating with customers,
filing, pricing, invoicing, collecting, accounting, packing,
shipping,promoting, etc. etc. Many more jobs than I ever had before...
not far enough along to farm too many of them out...if this year goes
well, maybe next year.....)
However , it does all revolve around one core, so it is a different
dynamic.
I am always chomping through that stuff to get back into the studio
everyday I can. Actually I also enjoy the other stuff.
Right now I am working on a personal clay project and I have to fiercely
protect the time for it...like a bulldog not letting other projects horn
in too much, Scheduled it....wrote it in on my project board just as if
it were for a paying customer....because I am! I am doing this because
when clay IS your sole income you do find yourself diving for those
projects with dollar signs. You have to check yourself . Of course, if
you have built up some cush, then you can be a little slower to bite
for bait.....however, the dollars are never the GOAL, they are just
part of the FUEL you need.
The clay work itself is the fresh scent and I am a hound after it. As
long as that is so, well I am as bound to it as the dang hound!
They say self employed/business people/entrepeneurs are the greatest
optomists. Because they trust , the BELIEVE in their souls that
someone WILL want what they have to offer. Someone WILL walk into my
cafe today!(then you work you butt off to buttress that optomism!)
I will say there is a great deal of satisfaction, but also
dissatisfaction too, which keeps me trying.
however I also find that I have to watch out about becoming isolated,
run down and jaded in my outlook.
When you do make your living from it you are most often scrambling,
always putting together projects and deals. Whether you strive for it
or no, the dollars have to come in, and not just every couple of months,
but every month
I try to keep the focus on the work. It is between me and the clay (or
is it the clay and I?)
Do work first, the rest will follow. I also know that if $2000- $4, 000
minimum per month is needed, a VERY basic existence in S. California,
then that is what I must put together. Every month.
So it is a challenge. If it was only money I was after, would not be
doing THIS, but I am at this stage in life where , well here it is,
let's see if the theory works. See what she's got. Otherwise I 'll have
to burn my 'follow your bliss, if you build it.." memos.
I wonder how many of you would never EVER want to make your sole
financial living with clay?
Probably a lot of you. I am sometimes envious of those who don't. but
then I snap out of it.....there's a lot to do and I asked to be here,
the good days are very very good, the path leads on and the scent on
the path is still strong.....
nighty night
Stephani Stephenson
steph@alchemiestudio.com
mudmistress@earthlink.net
Carlsbad CA
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