Marianne Lombardo on fri 23 aug 02
I'm currently trying out one of those Bison tool prototypes. Up until now,
the tools I've used are those cheap wire loop tools that cost around $4. So
using this Bison tool is, for me, amazing. I love it! It's so sharp and
very hard to believe it isn't some kind of metal. Of course, I'm terrified
of dropping it and I gently place it in a towel beside my wheel.
But what a tool. I can't believe how much clay comes off, so easily when
I'm trimming with this thing. Nice big 1" wide long, long, continuous trips
of clay just flying off. The one I'm trying is "L" shaped and I really
like the cutting surface on the end of the "L". A bowl form that took me
over half an hour to trim with my old tools took just 10 minutes with this
lovely sharp tool. I liked the way when trimming the bowl as I got close to
the foot I could use that free end to cut an angled undercut to catch glaze
drips into the foot.
These things are awfully pricy, but I've been telling my family that one of
these is on my birthday wish list. Anyone else trying these out, I would be
interested in hearing from you what you think of it.
Marianne Lombardo
Omemee, Ontario, Canada
email: mlombardo@nexicom.net
Ilene Mahler on sat 24 aug 02
I love them Phil just replaced one and my other one fell and shattered
..Ilene..I am lost withou Tthem
----- Original Message -----
From: william schran
To:
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: Bison Tool
> Marianne - I'm also one of the "testers" for the "L" shaped tool. I
> also have suffered through years of the "cheap" trimming tools and
> find this tool that Phil created is simply wonderful. I've used it so
> far to trim porcelain, stoneware and an especially rough (this stuff
> must have 30% sand!) locally dug clay. The tool performs wonderfully
> with them all. The local clay actually dulled a "cheap" tool after
> trimming about ten bowls. The Bison tool shows no sign of wear - just
> as sharp as when it came out of the box.
> One thing that Phil warned me about was to trim with wheel going
> slow. I've always trimmed with the wheel going at almost top speed,
> but with this tool it creates chattering at fast speeds. I've had to
> learn to slow down. I've also discovered that I need to allow the
> clay to stiffen up a bit more.
> The tool -definitely a winner!
> Bill
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
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william schran on sat 24 aug 02
Marianne - I'm also one of the "testers" for the "L" shaped tool. I
also have suffered through years of the "cheap" trimming tools and
find this tool that Phil created is simply wonderful. I've used it so
far to trim porcelain, stoneware and an especially rough (this stuff
must have 30% sand!) locally dug clay. The tool performs wonderfully
with them all. The local clay actually dulled a "cheap" tool after
trimming about ten bowls. The Bison tool shows no sign of wear - just
as sharp as when it came out of the box.
One thing that Phil warned me about was to trim with wheel going
slow. I've always trimmed with the wheel going at almost top speed,
but with this tool it creates chattering at fast speeds. I've had to
learn to slow down. I've also discovered that I need to allow the
clay to stiffen up a bit more.
The tool -definitely a winner!
Bill
Ann Brink on sat 24 aug 02
I agree with what you said, Marianne- I am trying a "7" shape and have never
used a tool this sharp...when trimming the outside bottom of a cylinder, I
have noticed kind of an interesting chatter pattern forming, but the tool
isn't grabbing, just cutting. But on a piece where I didn't want the
pattern, I was able to avoid doing it.
You mention using the open end near the bottom to catch glaze drips- I
turned the tool and use the elbow part. I think the shape is a really good
one.
Ann Brink in CA
Subject: Bison Tool
Marianne wrote:
> I'm currently trying out one of those Bison tool prototypes. Up until
now,
> the tools I've used are those cheap wire loop tools that cost around $4.
So
> using this Bison tool is, for me, amazing. I love it! It's so sharp and
> very hard to believe it isn't some kind of metal. Of course, I'm
terrified
> of dropping it and I gently place it in a towel beside my wheel.
>
> But what a tool. I can't believe how much clay comes off, so easily when
> I'm trimming with this thing. Nice big 1" wide long, long, continuous
trips
> of clay just flying off. The one I'm trying is "L" shaped and I really
> like the cutting surface on the end of the "L". A bowl form that took me
> over half an hour to trim with my old tools took just 10 minutes with this
> lovely sharp tool. I liked the way when trimming the bowl as I got close
to
> the foot I could use that free end to cut an angled undercut to catch
glaze
> drips into the foot."
>
>
Diane Woloshyn on sat 24 aug 02
Marianne,
I have a loop tool from Bison and another small V tool from them and they are
the only things I use anymore. Worth every penny!! Have been using them for
several years and have never had to send them back for sharpening.
Diane Florida Bird Lady
Carole Fox on mon 26 aug 02
Bill wrote:
" ......but with this tool it creates chattering at fast speeds. "
So THAT'S the secret! I bought my first bison tool recently and was also =
impressed with the sharpness. But I could not stop the chattering. =
Thought I was trimming too dry, too wet...maybe I bought the wrong kind =
of trimmer. I couldn't figure out what to try next, but now I =
know...just slow down.
This is great personal advice as well!
Carole Fox
Elkton, MD
cfox@dca.net
Lisa-Marie Serafin on mon 26 aug 02
Where can I get a Bison tool?
LM
-----Original Message-----
From: Diane Woloshyn
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: Saturday, August 24, 2002 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: Bison Tool
Marianne,
I have a loop tool from Bison and another small V tool from them and they
are
the only things I use anymore. Worth every penny!! Have been using them
for
several years and have never had to send them back for sharpening.
Diane Florida Bird Lady
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Caroline Niebres on mon 26 aug 02
I'd like to know where I can get a bison tool too!
Thanks,
Caroline Niebres
Hudson, WI
Marianne Lombardo on mon 26 aug 02
Hi Ann;
Actually, I guess the one I am trying is probably also a "7" shape. I do
seem to be getting the chattering and having difficulty stopping it. But I
also wonder if the "open end" versus a closed loop causes some vibration
that causes the chattering? Or is it just me? That was one of the things I
wondered if anyone else using these prototype tools was experiencing.
I tested the tool out today on some almost dry white stoneware and it was
still able to trim it, which amazed me. I had forgotten this piece when I
trimmed the others. I almost dumped it into the clay recycle slop bucket
and then decided to try the tool.
The elbow portion on the one I am using could be sharper, I think. It
wouldn't trim the dry clay, but the rest of the tool is deadly. I really
like it. Oh, those handles are so beautiful, but I find I hold the tool
lower down so I think it's a bit too long for me.
Marianne Lombardo
Omemee, Ontario, Canada
email: mlombardo@nexicom.net
> I agree with what you said, Marianne- I am trying a "7" shape and have
never
> used a tool this sharp...when trimming the outside bottom of a cylinder, I
> have noticed kind of an interesting chatter pattern forming, but the tool
> isn't grabbing, just cutting. But on a piece where I didn't want the
> pattern, I was able to avoid doing it.
Paul Herman on mon 26 aug 02
Marianne,
I'm also one of the lucky test drivers of a Bison tool. I got a small 7.
If chattering is bugging you try making one pass with the cutting edge
like this / and the next pass like this \. That helps smooth out the
'washboard road' effect.
Good luck,
Hardway Herman
Great Basin Pottery
423-725 Scott Road
Doyle, California 96109 US
potter@psln.com
----------
>From: Marianne Lombardo
> Actually, I guess the one I am trying is probably also a "7" shape. I do
> seem to be getting the chattering and having difficulty stopping it. But I
> also wonder if the "open end" versus a closed loop causes some vibration
> that causes the chattering? Or is it just me? That was one of the things I
> wondered if anyone else using these prototype tools was experiencing.
Marianne Lombardo on mon 26 aug 02
Hi Dawn;
You can get a Bison tool from Philip Poburka. His email is
pdp1@earthlink.net
Marianne Lombardo
Omemee, Ontario, Canada
email: mlombardo@nexicom.net
> is my understanding that it comes in red and green as well. Did I miss
the
> post as to where I can get a bison tool? Thanks, Dawn
Catherine White on tue 27 aug 02
What is the Bison tool made of? Ceramic, mica? I hear of its shattering if
dropped.
And, can I afford one? What is the approx. cost?
Thanks,
Catherine in AZ
william schran on tue 27 aug 02
Marianne - I don't think there is any vibration with the trimming
tool that causes the chattering. Phil and I sent emails back & forth
about speed of the wheel during trimming and he advised that I would
have to trim at a lower wheel speed and have the clay truly leather
hard. When I got the toll, I tried trimming at fast speeds and got
chattering no matter the dryness of the clay. I have slowed down and
eliminated the chattering.
Bill
Marianne Lombardo on tue 27 aug 02
Hi Bill;
Yes, I think in my case it is because the clay is not dry enough. I have
some more work in the process of drying, so I'll see how that goes.
I do trim with the wheel slow already. In fact, I don't even turn the motor
on. I just give a wheel a kick or two.
Marianne Lombardo
Omemee, Ontario, Canada
email: mlombardo@nexicom.net
> Marianne - I don't think there is any vibration with the trimming
> tool that causes the chattering. Phil and I sent emails back & forth
> about speed of the wheel during trimming and he advised that I would
> have to trim at a lower wheel speed and have the clay truly leather
> hard. When I got the toll, I tried trimming at fast speeds and got
> chattering no matter the dryness of the clay. I have slowed down and
> eliminated the chattering.
Snail Scott on wed 28 aug 02
At 10:38 PM 8/27/02 -0700, you wrote:
>What is the Bison tool made of?
>What is the approx. cost?
tungsten carbide; $50
Ask Phil Poburka for one of his cool
catalogs; it'll have all the info.
-Snail
Tempy Larew on thu 29 aug 02
Having used a nice assortment of Bison Tools for more than a year now, the
question is not can I afford one--but can I afford to not have one or
more--many more!!!!
Cheers--tempy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Catherine White"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 9:38 PM
Subject: Re: Bison Tool
> What is the Bison tool made of? Ceramic, mica? I hear of its shattering
if
> dropped.
> And, can I afford one? What is the approx. cost?
> Thanks,
> Catherine in AZ
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Snail Scott on thu 29 aug 02
At 02:10 AM 8/29/02 +0100, you wrote:
>Can you get them in England?
>Pat.
You can only buy them from Phil; I imagine
he'd ship them anywhere, though. Ask him!
"Philip Poburka"
-Snail
Pat Southwood on thu 29 aug 02
Can you get them in England?
Pat.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Snail Scott"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: Bison Tool
> At 10:38 PM 8/27/02 -0700, you wrote:
> >What is the Bison tool made of?
> >What is the approx. cost?
>
>
> tungsten carbide; $50
> Ask Phil Poburka for one of his cool
> catalogs; it'll have all the info.
>
> -Snail
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Linda Mccaleb on fri 13 nov 09
=3DA0 Ok, I give up.=3DA0 What in the world is a Bison Tool? I don't have 5=
0 do=3D
llars to invest in one, but if someone has 2 of them and is willing to part=
=3D
with one, I will scrounge up the money to pay for it. The way you all are =
=3D
talking is that it is the greatest thing since sliced bread! I need some sh=
=3D
arp trimming tools, all I have are the ones that you get from your local po=
=3D
ttery store, poor grade, and needs sharpening often.=3D0A=3DA0 Thanks for l=
etti=3D
ng me get that out,=3D0A=3DA0 Linda=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A
William & Susan Schran User on fri 13 nov 09
On 11/13/09 9:52 AM, "Linda Mccaleb" wrote:
> =3DA0 Ok, I give up.=3DA0 What in the world is a Bison Tool? I don't have=
50 doll=3D
ars
> to invest in one, but if someone has 2 of them and is willing to part wit=
=3D
h
> one, I will scrounge up the money to pay for it. The way you all are talk=
=3D
ing
> is that it is the greatest thing since sliced bread! I need some sharp
> trimming tools, all I have are the ones that you get from your local pott=
=3D
ery
> store, poor grade, and needs sharpening often.
Linda,
Bison tools are trimming tools made of tungsten carbide, a very hard
material that does not lose it's sharp edge easily.
The downside to this is the material is also brittle, so if you drop them,
they can break.
Because they are so sharp, one generally trims the pot when the clay is a
bit stiffer and with the wheel speed going much slower.
Here's the site to learn more about them:
Phil Poburka makes each tool individually by hand.
I own three and I'm sorry, I'm not giving up any of them.
If you have not used them, may I suggest Dolan Tools.
Here's their site: http://www.ceramictools.com/
These are made of high carbon steel, not as hard as Phil's tools, but a
quality made tool.
I have several Dolan tools.
Bill
--=3D20
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
Ingeborg Foco on fri 13 nov 09
I just bought my second Bison tool. First one I bought and kept it in a
safe place so I wouldn't drop it. Of course, I never used it. I do the
same thing with beauty products and sun screen, put them into the drawer an=
d
I guess knowing that I own them will make me beautiful and keep me from
getting sunburned. Hasn't really worked but....
Finally I decided this was nuts, so I started using the tool, after my
finger healed from the cut. They are sharp and it isn't a good idea to wip=
e
clay off with your finger tip. I recently ordered another one from Phil
because I liked it so much and now I own two.
As for any disclaimer, I get $1,000 bucks a month from Phil for bringing up
this topic, I make a grand and he sells lots of wonderful bison tools. How
can you go wrong!
Sincerely,
Ingeborg
http://www.thepottersworkshop.com
On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 9:52 AM, Linda Mccaleb wro=
te:
> Ok, I give up. What in the world is a Bison Tool? I don't have 50
> dollars to invest in one, but if someone has 2 of them and is willing to
> part with one, I will scrounge up the money to pay for it.
> --
>
Paul Herman on fri 13 nov 09
Ingeborg,
That's a good testimonial there below, and I have a whole slew of
those nice Bison tools down in the shop, where I am careful not to
break them by dropping them on the floor. Of course I try not to drop
my pots on the floor either, it's kind of hard on pots too. There is
one that has seen so much use that it is dull, and I use it for
trimming softer clay. There is not enough left for Phil to sharpen,
and one of these days I'll get a way to do that here. The others are
plenty sharp still, though I never cut myself.
The one that got broken was some years ago, by a young bull potter
rampaging through my shop during the loading for a wood firing, and
knocking it on the floor. Now when they start glazing, the good tools
get put away. Another I dropped and cracked, but Phil was able to
braze it, and it's still in use. Take care with them, and they are fine.
best,
Paul Herman
Great Basin Pottery
Doyle, California US
www.greatbasinpottery.com/
On Nov 13, 2009, at 2:34 PM, Ingeborg Foco wrote:
> Finally I decided this was nuts, so I started using the tool, after my
> finger healed from the cut. They are sharp and it isn't a good idea
> to wipe
> clay off with your finger tip. I recently ordered another one from
> Phil
> because I liked it so much and now I own two.
>
> As for any disclaimer, I get $1,000 bucks a month from Phil for
> bringing up
> this topic, I make a grand and he sells lots of wonderful bison
> tools. How
> can you go wrong!
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Ingeborg
Lee Love on fri 13 nov 09
On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Paul Herman:
Of course, a sharp tool like that does does tight trimming on dry
work. If that is the aesthetic you are trying to do. My sharp
tools aren't my loop tools, but the ones I use for scraping inlay.
Before I learned rope impression and inlay, I did not take as
much care about the way my work dried, so sometimes I had to trim when
it was too hard. That is the time sharpness is useful. But now,
because the clay has to have some amount of give in order to hold the
impressions without cracking, I always have to trim softer.
>Of course I try not to drop my pots on the floor either,
> it's kind of hard on pots too.
I remember an American apprentice telling us about breaking one of
Shimaoka's $30,000.00 blue Osara, lifting it of the salt chamber
shelf, and an other story about Shimaoka bowing with a board of
Hamada's pots when the Emperor visited and they happened to cross
paths, with all the pots tumbling off and breaking. The thing
about the pots, is that the $30,000.00 pot isn't worth $30,000.00
until it is sold. Neither are ours, partly because we can make
another. A tool we can't make is a different story.
> Take care with them, and they are fine.
And don't have cats in the studio. We have a new kitten named
Benny. Kintaro thinks he is pretty cool. I foster 5 abandoned
kittens once in Mashiko. They might have been 2 or 3 weeks old when
Taiko found them in the Shrine woods beside our house. We lived on
a busy road, so they lived in my studio for 3 or 4 months so they
wouldn't get squashed. I remember at the end, thinking that they
broke maybe $5,000.00 worth of pots in those 4 months. But then I
remembered the blue Osara story and remember that those pots weren't
worth that much, not until they were sold. They busted one of my
favorite ko-shigaraki tsubo, crack clean in half at a joint in the
middle.
I put shino glaze on the edge and set the top on
the pot and refired it in the cone 13 area and it bonded together so
you can't see the seam. I have it on the dresser in the bedroom.
None the less for ware, just maybe a little less red in color. I
guess a pot you can mend isn't a broken pot.
--
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D97tha=
t is, "T=3D
he
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Ingeborg Foco on fri 13 nov 09
Hi Paul,
So you're on the payroll for Bison tools too.:)
On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 8:43 PM, Paul Herman wr=
ote:
> Ingeborg,
>
> That's a good testimonial there below, and I have a whole slew of those
> nice Bison tools down in the shop, where I am careful not to break them b=
y
> dropping them on the floor. Of course I try not to drop my pots on the fl=
oor
> either, it's kind of hard on pots too. There is one that has seen so much
> use that it is dull, and I use it for trimming softer clay. There is not
> enough left for Phil to sharpen, and one of these days I'll get a way to =
do
> that here. The others are plenty sharp still, though I never cut myself.
>
> The one that got broken was some years ago, by a young bull potter
> rampaging through my shop during the loading for a wood firing, and knock=
ing
> it on the floor. Now when they start glazing, the good tools get put away=
.
> Another I dropped and cracked, but Phil was able to braze it, and it's st=
ill
> in use. Take care with them, and they are fine.
>
> best,
>
> Paul Herman
>
> Great Basin Pottery
> Doyle, California US
> www.greatbasinpottery.com/
>
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 13, 2009, at 2:34 PM, Ingeborg Foco wrote:
>
> Finally I decided this was nuts, so I started using the tool, after my
>> finger healed from the cut. They are sharp and it isn't a good idea to
>> wipe
>> clay off with your finger tip. I recently ordered another one from Phil
>> because I liked it so much and now I own two.
>>
>> As for any disclaimer, I get $1,000 bucks a month from Phil for bringing
>> up
>> this topic, I make a grand and he sells lots of wonderful bison tools.
>> How
>> can you go wrong!
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Ingeborg
>>
>
>
--
Sincerely,
Ingeborg
http://www.thepottersworkshop.com
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