Philip Poburka on sat 24 aug 02
Does a ''Gallery' not look somehow...at their 'work'?
I have known many 'mfa'...'bfa'...they most of them had never done a damned
thing but BE in 'school'...their work tended to exclaim this...and only too
well.
Sheesh...I should stay out of this!
Phil
ell vee
> >I keep hearing from my "artist" friends (read: PAINTERS) that no one will
> take them seriously in the galleries unless >they have their MFA to show
> how committed they are.
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
e wilson farrington on sat 24 aug 02
Dear Clayarters,
I am considering going back for my MFA in ceramics. I would like to =
read opinions from other clayarters on the pros and cons of this move. I =
keep hearing from my "artist" friends (read: PAINTERS) that no one will =
take them seriously in the galleries unless they have their MFA to show =
how committed they are. I don't know if this applies to potters/ceramic =
artists. I do notice that when I go to gallery shows featuring ceramics, =
virtually all the participants have MFAs from somewhere. That, and the =
fact that so many people have graduated from Alfred, which is amazing to =
me considering how selective a program it is. Sometimes I wonder if =
there are some gallery owners who need that MFA as proof to themselves =
that the person has done the necessary "prerequisites" to form the =
backbone of their current body of work. (I mean no disrespect here, I'm =
just wondering what others think).=20
As for myself, I would do it because I would enjoy it and it would =
give me access to technology and experiences that I might not otherwise =
have. I work alone 100% of the time, except for the occasional workshop =
and visits with other potter friends, so the input and camaraderie would =
be good for me. The tuition money is definitely a consideration, =
(although I am hoping for a scholarship), also the time it will take =
away from my own work. Please let me know your thoughts on this.
Thanks a lot,
---wilson
Dannon Rhudy on sat 24 aug 02
At 08:39 AM 08/24/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>Dear Clayarters,
> I am considering going back for my MFA ......... I would do it because
I would enjoy it and it would give me access to technology and experiences
that I might not otherwise have. I work alone 100% of the time, ......
so the input and camaraderie would be good for me. The tuition money is
definitely a consideration, .......
You have really answered your own question: you would do it for the
access to technology and experience, and the camaraderie. Those
are good and sufficient reasons to get your degree.
I do not believe, personally, that galleries give a hoot whether you
have that degree or not. Their choices are based on whether they
like and think they can sell your work. NOT whether you graduated
from Alfred or wherever.
The only reason to do anything that is going to take serious committment
and attention and time for two or three years of your life is because
it is what you WANT to do. An MFA is not a requirement for anything
save teaching, and teaching jobs are very few and far between. So -
if you think you would benefit by going back to school, do it. If you
only want technical information, there are other ways to acquire that,
including apprenticing, self-study, etc. An MFA will not only be about
ceramics, as you already know.
regards
Dannon Rhudy
Snail Scott on sat 24 aug 02
At 08:39 AM 8/24/02 -0400, you wrote:
>I keep hearing from my "artist" friends (read: PAINTERS) that no one will
take them seriously in the galleries unless >they have their MFA to show
how committed they are.
An MFA is one indicator that you're serious about your career,
and not just a hobbyist/dilettante. Shows on your resume are
another. Sales records and mailing lists are another. But if
they don't like your work, all the credentials on earth won't
get you in. (It's sort of like at the DMV, when they list all
the forms of I.D. they'll accept. Birth certificate is best,
but a drivers license and Social Security card together will
substitute, or military ID and a few utility bills, or a
passport. You don't have to have any specific one, just a
sufficiency of proof through some adequate combination.)
It's like that with galleries: Some combination of credentials.
Before they invest in your career, they want some evidence
that you've already done the same. Of course it depends on the
gallery. Some will take a chance on anybody if they like the
work. Others want artists with a track record. The first sort
is how most of us start out. The second sort is more likely
to do some real work representing you; that's why they are
more selective in who they choose.
If you've got plenty of time and money, go ahead. If you don't,
think seriously about why you want the MFA. 'Gallery credential'
alone is a pretty poor (and largely unnecessary) reason for
that much effort. There are good reasons, but I don't consider
that to be one of them.
-Snail
terry sullivan on sat 24 aug 02
Well, this topic ought to get plenty of responses.
So here goes-
I've talked with lots of gallery owners who deal with ceramics ( as well
as other media ) and never had a one say that an MFA is a deciding
factor in their accepting an artist to show. I ask this question all the
time since doing a workshop with gallery people. What they want to see
is good work professionaly presented.
Next consideration is that the artist can show evidence of long term
commitment ( they don't want to take on an artist only to loose them in
a year or so). The MFA might help on that second point, but every
gallery owner I have talked with is primarily concerned with the work.
Is it good, is it something they can sell at their gallery, does the
artist present themselves and their work in a professional manner.
As far as an MFA assisting your art carreer financially I'd have to say
that's so variable and marginal as to be an unanserable question. If
doing the MFA program made you a significantly better artist than you
could have done some other, and probably far cheaper, way, and if you
actually continue as an artist; then perhaps doing the program is
financially a good idea. I have seen famous painters who did study with
some great teachers in the college setting who have gone on to very
rewarding carreers.
I'm not as sure about the efficacy of that path for a potter/ceramist.
The MFA will probably cost between $10,000 and $ 40,000 and take 2-3
years of constant hard work. Once you are graduated, you should not
expect to be able to get a full time teaching job at the college level.
Takes years and the odds are worse than 1/1000. And if one is lucky
enough to get such a job; you will most certainly have to move.
I'm sure the MFA expirience is usually lots of fun and all along with
the learning etc. But it is an expensive way to get that expirience. If
you are already a fairly good ceramist and want to gain lots of varied
trainning and expirience in the shortest time; I strongly advise you to
apply for lab tech./ workshop assistant jobs at places like Anderson
Ranch, Archi Brey, Haystack, etc. You will learn more about your
choosen art/craft, be exposed to more ideas and techniques, meet more
interesting folks ( network !! ), and have more fun, in one summers work
than most 2 yr. MFA programs. At the end of such a season , or more,
you will not owe any money and most likely have a lots of job / gallery
contacts. Often these jobs lead to
opportunities to stay on as an artist resident to develope your work.
If a ceramist spent $ 20,000 and two years diligently seeking out the
best people to learn from and the best places to work at; they would
most likely be one hell of an artist at the end of those two years. The
fact is one can do that without spending hardly any $$$. Just hard
dilligent work and a willingness to go wherever is needed.
My two cents.
I never bought a ceramic piece because the maker had an MFA. Matter of
fact, I don't think any of my collection was made by someone with an
MFA. Oh, ya, Steve Horn has one. Of course he did it part time to
improve his teaching position / carreer. Didn't have any effect on his
already well established ceramics work.
Terry Sullivan
Nottingham Center for the Arts
San Marcos, CA
www.nottinghamarts.org
Personal email: go2tms@cox.net
(760) 734-3913
kruzewski on sat 24 aug 02
Wilson, you sound like you want to do this for you, not just for the kudos
it may or may not bring - I'd say DO IT!
I am about to start a part time BA degree course (similar thing, I think) in
Ceramics. A self-taught potter, I feel that the experience will take my work
a step further and at the end I will be making "grown up" ceramics with
experience of ways of making and attitudes I wouldn't consider now.
As someone without a degree I feel that having one definately helps, both in
skills and in attitudes to you as a serious potter. I've been told my work
will inevitably change over this process, and although that is a scary
thought i want to rise to the challenge of new ideas, influences and methods
and then maybe I can take myself and my work a bit more seriously too.
Hope you get the scholarship!
Jacqui
North Wales
Rick Hugel on sun 25 aug 02
You seem to have all the prerequisites for pursuing an MFA in ceramics,
i.e. you want everything it can offer and that which you want to gain from
it. It's a snobbish world and not likely to become less so. Every stamp
you can add to your passport to life/the future/open doors/etc can only be
a plus. You may not like/agree with everything that comes with achieving
an MFA, but that reminds me of the line from a song in "My Fair Lady" (with
paraphrasing license taken)
Listen very politely
and then go out and do precisely
as you like
while, of course, firmly gripping and gloriously waving about your MFA. DO IT!
>Dear Clayarters,
> I am considering going back for my MFA in ceramics. I would like to
>read opinions from other clayarters on the pros and cons of this move. I
>keep hearing from my "artist" friends (read: PAINTERS) that no one will
>take them seriously in the galleries unless they have their MFA to show
>how committed they are. I don't know if this applies to potters/ceramic
>artists. I do notice that when I go to gallery shows featuring ceramics,
>virtually all the participants have MFAs from somewhere. That, and the
>fact that so many people have graduated from Alfred, which is amazing to
>me considering how selective a program it is. Sometimes I wonder if there
>are some gallery owners who need that MFA as proof to themselves that the
>person has done the necessary "prerequisites" to form the backbone of
>their current body of work. (I mean no disrespect here, I'm just wondering
>what others think).
> As for myself, I would do it because I would enjoy it and it would
>give me access to technology and experiences that I might not otherwise
>have. I work alone 100% of the time, except for the occasional workshop
>and visits with other potter friends, so the input and camaraderie would
>be good for me. The tuition money is definitely a consideration, (although
>I am hoping for a scholarship), also the time it will take away from my
>own work. Please let me know your thoughts on this.
> Thanks a lot,
> ---wilson
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
Richard Mahaffey on sun 25 aug 02
I would vote for the MFA. One thing it gives you is freedom.
Specifically the freedom to teach should a job open and you have the
desire to take that job. I can think of two of my classmates in grad
school who said I really don't need an MFA because I will never teach.
Well it is 29 years later and both of them are teaching and enjoying
it. Without that MFA they would not have the extra income that carries
them through the hard times that we are in of late.
Also they both really enjoyed the journey through a good program.
My 2 cents worth. Remember advice is worth what you pay for it.
Rick Mahaffey
Tacoma, Washington, USA
Ababi on sun 25 aug 02
I think a person with MFA has a bigger chance to find a work than to a person like me
even if the MFA might know less than me because this is an official evidence that
MFA person has learnt properly what the new employer is looking for, the new
employer does not mesentery knows all the secrets of ceramics.
He want a magician (Potter)
not to learn ceramics in order to know who to employ
This is life and if you can learn!
Ababi Sharon
Glaze addict
Kibbutz Shoval Israel
ababisha@shoval.org.il
http://members4.clubphoto.com/ababi306910/
http://www.milkywayceramics.com/cgallery/asharon.htm
vince pitelka on sun 25 aug 02
> I am considering going back for my MFA in ceramics. I would like to
> read opinions from other clayarters on the pros and cons of this move.
Wilson -
Everyone will tell you that getting an MFA is a time consuming and very
expensive endeavor. It is. And if you make the most of the opportunity, it
will be the best spent time and money of your entire life. But don't get an
MFA as a badge of authenticity to impress gallery owners. Get it because
you want to immerse yourself in the wonderful soup cauldron of graduate
school. Pick a program that is really right for you, with faculty you want
to work with, and then put your full effort into your work for the duration
of your graduate school experience.
When you get out, galleries will be more approachable because you and your
work will be more confident and mature. But when it comes down to it, it
certainly doesn't hurt to have the credential. Yes, having an MFA does sort
of give you the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval in the fine art/craft
world, for whatever that is worth.
Graduate studies are not for everyone. Some people get everything they need
from undergraduate school, from studying on their own, and/or from
apprenticing with a master. But one of the saddest things in life is to
miss an opportunity that you have dreamed of pursuing. So you need to
decide whether you are serious about pursuing grad studies - for the sake of
your art work, not for the sake of impressing gallery owners. If you decide
you want it, then just do it no matter what. Find a graduate program that
provides teaching or research assistantships, and you can get through with
little or no debt. Even if you come out with student loans to pay back, it
will be one of the best investments of your life.
Okay, that's my testimonial.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@worldnet.att.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
william schran on sun 25 aug 02
Wilson - First - I hold an MFA degree. Second - I'm certain others
will chime in with their considered opinions.
I decided to pursue the MFA because I thought I might want to teach
at the college/university level. Though not all institutions of
higher learning require the master's level to teach, many do. When I
entered the program, I was not completely sure I wanted to teach -
that was until I worked as a teachers assistant. I was hooked on
teaching. I was very fortunate to be hired straight out of school.
After 25 years of teaching I'm still hooked!
Should you pursue the MFA? Depends on what you want to do and what
you want to get out of it. If you desire the studio artisan route, I
might question its value as opposed to lots of workshops and or
apprenticeships.
All above IMHO, Bill
vince pitelka on sun 25 aug 02
I was 37 when I went back to school for my MFA, and that was after ten years
as a studio potter in Northern California. As I have said before many times
on Clayart, if you get an MFA because you really want to teach, and if you
select a program where you can get a teaching assistantship, and if, after
grad school, you relentlessly pursue every teaching opportunity and other
opportunities that will improve your resume for teaching, and if you keep
doing and exhibiting your work, you WILL GET A TEACHING JOB. It really is
as simple as that. It involves a great deal of very hard work, but if you
love the work and you really want a teaching job, then that is not a problem
at all.
And in regards to strengthening your own work and making you more confident
as an artist, some people can accomplish that through a series of
apprencticeships or a LOT of workshops, or just through dogged independent
work on their art, but NO OTHER ENVIRONMENT will offer you the concentrated
resources and opportunities that the right graduate program will provide.
That is the simple truth.
If you go to graduate school, and if you make the most of the opportunity,
you WILL be a more confident, autonomous artist and person, and that will
help you in everything you do for the rest of your life. That is worth any
amount of money.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@worldnet.att.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Lee Love on mon 26 aug 02
----- Original Message -----
From: "vince pitelka"
> And in regards to strengthening your own work and making you more confident
> as an artist, some people can accomplish that through a series of
> apprencticeships or a LOT of workshops,
I figure my 3 year apprenticeship here in Japan is probably worth
multiple MFAs, actually. ;^) It is most difficult and rewarding activity I
have ever attempted.
I figure 3 years at a Japanese monastery or working on an MFA would
be a breeze after this. And I've thought about doing both. I've decided not
to because my wife Jean has worked so hard during my apprenticeship. When I am
finished, I will work so she can be a full time artist too. And we want to see
Japan and I want to study a few other arts too. Maybe later. :^)
--
Lee Love Ikiru@hachiko.com
Mashiko JAPAN
"Really there is no East, no West,
Where then is the South and the North?
Illusion makes the world close in,
Enlightenment opens it on every side."
- Japanese Pilgrim's Verse.
Janet Kaiser on mon 26 aug 02
On 24/08/02 at 19:28 Philip Poburka wrote:
>Does a ''Gallery' not look somehow...at their 'work'?
>
Yes, Philip, their work is going to be the primary as well as the ultimate
deciding factor, however, galleries will take other factors into
consideration, when making a final decision. As several others have
intimated, we also look for quality, maturity, consistency,
professionalism, dedication, dependability, punctuality, flexibility and
resourcefulness! Many different personal qualities in the artist as well as
their work are required to pass the acid gallery test. That way, we take
less of a risk offering exhibition space and opportunity to newcomers.
After all, the gallery will invest a lot of time and money up front, so
they need to know they are making a sound investment.
When I first became a self-employed gallerist, I was very naive and offered
all those who submitted the best work for each exhibition a
space/opportunity, without looking at their personal history. It was a very
big mistake, because we were constantly being let down by both artists and
makers for one reason or another. I do not like to tell you how dreadful it
is the have an empty gallery the evening 200+ art lovers are expecting to
see the new work of ABC or XYZ!! Nor is it easy telling press reporters and
photographers who have been whipped up into a state of excitement by a
skillful press officer (grin) that the artist/s decided they could not make
it just 24 hours before the show was due to open! Very unprofessional, but
yes, I learned the hard way.
BTW this unforgivable and unforgettable experience also means that this
space has been spoiled for future artists and makers, especially those
working in groups. In fact, I will only offer one wo/man shows to artists
who have been so reliable and constant over a considerable period of time,
that they have become real personal friends too... They say "don't confuse
business with leisure time friendship", but it has stood us good stead down
the years.
Now I rely on many different forms of "reliability check" from networking
with other galleries and fellow artists, to talking to former professors
and teachers, as well as checking CVs for "new" artists. A BA, an MA or
even a doctorate (=3D very rare animal) is not going to weigh the balance
one way or another. Indeed, due to what I consider the "devaluation" of
degrees in recent years, it will make me look at the work itself a lot
harder... You would be amazed (for example) how often the images sent by
"advanced" certificate and degree holders are so manipulated and kind to
the work, it appears to almost misrepresent the qualities of the items in
question. They are also more likely to submit one set of older images, then
turn up with completely different work for exhibition!
No, the gallery curator will not necessarily be impressed by a Masters or
higher degree, but more often than not, the public certainly will be to
some extent. Just as RA (Royal Academy) or RCA (Royal Cambrian Academy)
after the name will respectively (to a greater or lesser extent) add
"value" to the work. This is not confined to Art... It does not matter how
knowledgeable historians are (for example), their renown and reputation
rises exponentially (sp?) as they climb the academic ladder. Thus a
professor is perceived to be far more knowledgeable and therefore desirable
than an undergraduate. However, if the professor has only studied 15thC
European History for the past 50 years, even a student may be more
knowledgeable on his chosen subject: prehistoric Britain. But you can
guarantee the local historical society will prize the Prof. lecturing far
more than the student... Indeed, the student may not be invited to lecture
for another 10 years, because of the perceived lack of maturity and polish.
And sadly, I must also conclude that Orwellian "All animals are equal, but
some are more equal than others" is also too true in the Halls of
Academe... A degree from one institution is not comparable to the next.
There is a definite hierarchy, which only those "in the know" and very much
on the ball are able to follow and keep up to date. As art departments are
restructured, reorganised and all too often closed these days, so the
quality is suffering right across the board. Hence undergraduate students
currently studying Fine Art (Painting) at Chelsea are actively protesting
about not being given life drawing lessons and Art & Design (Ceramics)
students at another college formerly famous for its tremendous ceramic
department (which will remain nameless) are only given commercial glazes to
use!
But this is the UK... Maybe it is different in the USA?
Janet Kaiser - laughing at the mail from Mr. Yu in China... "Dear Sir: We
are indebted for your address to the Internet. And know that you are in the
market for Agriculture Machinery." Kind of puts all this arty-crafty stuff
into perspective, doesn't it? Just wish the Pramrod would finally get the
message, we don't want his packaging material...
The Chapel of Art =95 Capel Celfyddyd
8 Marine Crescent, Criccieth LL52 0EA, Wales, UK
Tel: 01766-523570 URL: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
MOLINA, RAFAEL on tue 27 aug 02
Vince:
In the five years that I've been subscribed to the List this topic has =
come up numerous times. And you always reply with the following:
"if you get an MFA because you really want to teach, and if you select a =
program where you can get a teaching assistantship, and if, after grad =
school, you relentlessly pursue every teaching opportunity and other =
opportunities that will improve your resume for teaching, and if you =
keep
doing and exhibiting your work, you WILL GET A TEACHING JOB."
My reply to that is always that there is no credible survey or study =
that you can cite that will buttress your argument. Your assertion is =
based on your experience and observation. As such, it's anecdotal in =
nature. Moreover, those people you can cite from your experience and =
observation are a very small sample of the number of grads who have the =
credentials and are seeking teaching jobs (don't forget the people who =
don't have the MA/MFA credentials and are seeking professorships).
I appreciate your positive outlook and encouragement, but I think anyone =
considering spending 2-3 years of their life and tens of thousands of =
dollars in tuition, fees, and other costs would benefit from getting as =
much credible data from many different sources before they make the =
decision to go to graduate school.
Chao,
Rafael
Rafael Molina, MFA
Assistant Professor of Art
Department of Music, Art, and Dance
Tarrant County College-Southeast Campus
2100 Southeast Parkway
Arlington, TX 76018-3144
(817) 515-3711
(817) 515-3189 fax
-----Original Message-----
From: vince pitelka [mailto:vpitelka@WORLDNET.ATT.NET]
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 9:01 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: MFA or no MFA? Opinions, please.
I was 37 when I went back to school for my MFA, and that was after ten =
years
as a studio potter in Northern California. As I have said before many =
times
on Clayart, if you get an MFA because you really want to teach, and if =
you
select a program where you can get a teaching assistantship, and if, =
after
grad school, you relentlessly pursue every teaching opportunity and =
other
opportunities that will improve your resume for teaching, and if you =
keep
doing and exhibiting your work, you WILL GET A TEACHING JOB. It really =
is
as simple as that. It involves a great deal of very hard work, but if =
you
love the work and you really want a teaching job, then that is not a =
problem
at all.
And in regards to strengthening your own work and making you more =
confident
as an artist, some people can accomplish that through a series of
apprencticeships or a LOT of workshops, or just through dogged =
independent
work on their art, but NO OTHER ENVIRONMENT will offer you the =
concentrated
resources and opportunities that the right graduate program will =
provide.
That is the simple truth.
If you go to graduate school, and if you make the most of the =
opportunity,
you WILL be a more confident, autonomous artist and person, and that =
will
help you in everything you do for the rest of your life. That is worth =
any
amount of money.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@worldnet.att.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
_________________________________________________________________________=
_____
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at =
melpots@pclink.com.
vince pitelka on tue 27 aug 02
> My reply to that is always that there is no credible survey or study =
> that you can cite that will buttress your argument. Your assertion is =
> based on your experience and observation.
Rafael -
Anecdotal it might be, but I have known a hell of a lot of people who went
through MFA programs. The ones who's hearts and minds were really set on
getting teaching jobs all have teaching jobs now. It is as simple as that.
You obviously had your heart set on getting a teaching job, and you have
one. The same is true in my case. I got my job at TTU because of what they
referred to as a "demonstrated commitment to teaching." Between my own
experience and what I have observed over the last twenty years, I do not
need any more proof or substantiation in order to make my claim, as you
quoted:
"If you get an MFA because you really want to teach, and if you select a
program where you can get a teaching assistantship, and if, after grad
school, you relentlessly pursue every teaching opportunity and other
opportunities that will improve your resume for teaching, and if you keep
doing and exhibiting your work, you WILL GET A TEACHING JOB."
And as I am sure you will agree, graduate school is charged with so much
information and idea - it is bound to be a life-changing experience for
anyone who makes the most of the opportunity. As I said before, considering
what you get out of graduate school, it is a bargain no matter what. So it
is really irrelevant whether or not you get a teaching job. But I still say
that anyone who really has their heart and mind set on that goal can achieve
it.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@worldnet.att.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
vince pitelka on wed 28 aug 02
> The other aspect, is that if your work is exceptional, you can get a
teaching
> job regardless of having an MFA or not. Sometimes, you can even be the
> head of a whole art department, like MacKenzie was.
Unfortunately, if you mean university tenure-track teaching jobs, today it
is very rare to be hired without an MFA or PhD. Thirty or forty years ago
it was fairly common for an artist with no graduate degree but with a very
high level of accomplishment and recognition in their field to be hired at
the university level. This rarely happens today, and only in private
institutions, and only with VERY well known artists.
One of the more unfortunate things to have happened in public education in
the past fifty years is the increasing expectation of quantification,
documentation, substantiation of everything. That is what is responsible
for the horribly misguided testing programs being used in K-12 today.
If some disgruntled student seeks judgment against the university, the
administration wants to be able to say that all of their faculty have
terminal degrees in their respective fields. That has become a more
important factor than whether or not the individual faculty member really is
a good teacher and/or artist and/or scholar.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@worldnet.att.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Lee Love on wed 28 aug 02
----- Original Message -----
From: "MOLINA, RAFAEL"
>I appreciate your positive outlook and encouragement, but I think
>anyone considering spending 2-3 years of their life and tens of thousands
>of dollars in tuition, fees, and other costs would benefit from getting as much
> credible data from many different sources before they make the decision
>to go to graduate school.
The other aspect, is that if your work is exceptional, you can get a teaching
job regardless of having an MFA or not. Sometimes, you can even be the head of
a whole art department, like MacKenzie was.
If you go here:
http://programs.researchchannel.com/displayevent.asp?rid=809 , you can see an
interview (via Media Player) with someone I took classes from, who started
teaching ceramics with a Bachelors and is now the head of an art department
(same one.)
--
Lee Love Ikiru@hachiko.com
Mashiko JAPAN
"Really there is no East, no West,
Where then is the South and the North?
Illusion makes the world close in,
Enlightenment opens it on every side."
- Japanese Pilgrim's Verse.
Andi Fasimpaur on thu 29 aug 02
At 08:33 PM 8/28/02 -0500, Vince wrote:
>One of the more unfortunate things to have happened in public education in
>the past fifty years is the increasing expectation of quantification,
>documentation, substantiation of everything. That is what is responsible
>for the horribly misguided testing programs being used in K-12 today.
Thank you, Vince, it seems like every time you post I find myself nodding
in agreement with something that you say... I live in a state where school
funding is based largely on the property tax levy. As it is often
practically impossible to pass any form of tax levy, the school districts
rely on the scores on these standardized tests to demonstrate the need for
these funds... Consistently art programs are cut, extra curricular
activities are cut, and a child's entire education becomes a process of
preparation for spitting out the right answers to questions on a multiple
choice test. The more emphasis I see placed on standardized testing the
more I want to homeschool my eventual child. I'm personally convinced that
an education based on standardized tests prepares a child only for
standardized problems.
On the question of MFAs, I've seriously considered the possibility of going
back to school for an advanced degree... I've had several experiences,
including my attendance at the last 4 NCECA confrences, which have led me
to belive that I would enjoy the experience, and that the benefits to me
artistically, technically, and in terms of credibility and confidence in my
own accomplishments, would be well worth the time and investment. So far,
my explorations have not extended beyond web searches in the middle of long
insomniac nights... There are a great many things that I feel I need to do,
artistically, and personally, before Grad School becomes a real option...
If/when I make the decision to attend an MFA program, the decision will be
based equally on how much I feel I would benefit in terms of
personal/artistic growth and which doors I feel would be opened to me upon
completion of the degree...
Until I'm ready, I will take advantage of the opportunities for growth
presented by carefully selected workshops, well written books and articles
by more experienced potters, chance encounters with other potters, and
continuing art historical research into the works of potters from other
times and cultures. When the time comes for graduate school, I hope that
these processes and experiences will make me a better candidate.
There's nothing to say that graduate school is right for everyone, or that
you should go directly from undergraduate to graduate studies without
stopping to pass go. It's another example of trying to apply a
standardized/binary answer (yes/no) to a non-standardized world.
Best Wishes,
Andi.
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