BVCuma on sun 25 aug 02
Another version of throwing upside down...
(If this is not the method Ivor outlined)
Watching the local potter throw..
near the end of the day I spotted=20
him doing a sly technique...
He gained about 25 % of the pots height
By "throwing down"...
After centering, coning,
opening, compressing and pulling up (actually pinching)
about half the height of the pot
in one fluid motion...
that took exaclty six seconds...
I timed it a dozen times before I could believe it!!
He would then push the hump down
along the side of the pot till the finished base...
Effectively "throwing down" to reveal
a pot within the clay..
much as a sculptor would uncover
a figure from stone...
wow
Bruce
ps. He has been a full time exclusive wheel throwing potter
for 25 five years.. since the age of ten.
iandol on mon 26 aug 02
Dear Bruce,
Not only can I throw down as this fellow seems to be doing. I centre by =
forcing the clay down towards the wheelhead. It is amazing to watch the =
cone of clay rise up through the space between my hands, running true =
ready to be opened.
I would not be at all surprised if that fellow you were watching used =
almost no water and that his clay was on the softer rather than the =
harder side of plastic. Sounds like a great production rate. How many =
tons of clay a day are you expecting to throw :)!? as you take up the =
challenge.
Best regards,
Ivor
BVCuma on thu 29 aug 02
"I am so not getting this thread... I need pictures!..."
____________________________
Dear Gayle..
=20
Pictures will be a bit static..
(You've seen the pics...they all look the same)
A good description will help indicate..
Ivors articles are always A-1 in the Ceramic tech mag.
Even then you must be prepared for a lot of failures...
It's the only way you will figure it out...
probably ending up with your own variations
Here is something I wrote yesterday but didn't send
as my whole comprehension is doing summer saults..
snip> My guy was rebuilding his kiln today...
He had 6-7 potters drop by.
They were all giving me their demo's and training sessions...
They each have their own version of "the way to do it"
with decorative motif for distinction.
My mind has gone into a state of confusion ...
always a good thing..indicates a breakdown of old thought patterns
Dammit .. I just formed them yesterday.<<
Today was quite enjoyable..
my numbers are up from 9, 14, 23, and now 46 per day
with only three failures today...
Will be doing a hundred by the 6th day.
Meanwhile..
The clay has become even softer.
And was experimenting late in the day with some
of my conventional hand postions..with good result.
Looking for some consistancy now..
and speed later.
To help clarify things for myself...
The clay is slapped into center with hands
the wheel is brought up to speed.
One quick 3 second cone up..
The clay is rough but conveniently preopened with slip inside the crater =
on top of the cone..
if you feel.. you can squeeze it off by pinching near the top (not often =
required)...
the remaining half of centering happens on the compression to the =
bottom...
Another 3 seconds for compression back down, penatrating with the =
thumbs
rim contact point between thumb and finger starting at the web and =
concluding the palm/heel inclusion....=20
starting at 11 and 1 o'clock and completing at 3 and 9 o'clock =
respectively..
controlling width of form and wall thickness with subtle hand =
modulations
Completely centered and opened 6 kgs. single pot blank in six =
seconds...presto!
After opening..
Hands and fingers outside at 10 and 2 o'clock
parallel and vertical pointing down...
Thumbs inside, squeeze..
Rotating wrists up and out so that the thumbs form the ridge inside
and the fingers follow outside below the ridge to pull up ... a firm =
folding back gesture
Ending up somewhat but not really, horizontal... fingers pointing =
towards each other
(superimpose the dynamics of your usual pull on this=20
hand postion/movement for clarification )
This results in half a pull..
..rolling your hands over and back down the outside of the cylinder on =
both sides...
At this point I am now talking throwing off the hump..
Though it will most likely work with a cylinder too.
leading the outside/downward compression with a "Karate chop"=20
hand movement both sides, angled slightly outwards at the leading edge
to catch the widening that is towards the wheel head
and followed by the base of thumb muscle/bone near the wrist=20
leaning in as a secondary but primary pressure point..
intensifying near to the desired base level to define that point....
forcing the clay to "rise up" in effect.. "throwing down"=20
(see coning and throwing down for the simple version)
Rotating the hands so the top angles outwards with reduced pressure
more as a preparation...and "pulling" from the bottom of the hands in a =
cupping fashion,=20
raising the cylinder and "coning" it straight..
Leaving an slightly flaring outward thick lip at the top for strength.
Compress the rim and form the shape as usual..
Start by setting the inner base relative to your outer base point =
selection
giving you the required bottom thickness.
Its all about revolving, rotations, reversals..=20
timing, turning, tempo...=20
and Dance...
Fluid motion..leading , following..
back and forth,=20
in and out.
Rythem and rhyme
Transcending mortal time.
not a mimic or a mime
what is this?
nothing but bliss!
Art thou thy witness, eternally...sublime.
Experienced throwers should pick up on this technique very quick..
developed out of sheer economy and functional maximums (wholesale =
nursery planters)
under intense competition bordering on poverty...... no more no less.
They are amazed a white ass angraise like me is
actually willing to get his hands dirty and sit at their feet to study
their low grade occupation with such dedication.
They say to each other I'm "time passing"..
In an effort to try and rationalize the situation..
What is my real job?, they ask..but I am a "kumhar" at home too....
My center spins inside..
oh...ok...
passing glances...
really?
naturally, of course.
I tell stories about people in the west who dream of leaving their =
office
jobs to do this for a living...out of love,
they find it ridiculously outrageous...now they all want jobs in =
Canada..lol
Folks have dropped by proclaiming to be office employed (but laid off)
with the attitude... I am above all this..
I make a good joke out of their trip.
Look we are enjoying! and you... where is your job now, baba ?
Everyone has a hearty laugh..
much to the gentleman's bewilderment.
What, Canada ? ...Hindustani is number one!
another round of laughter!
and hand slapping.
Good clean fun..
Bruce
iandol on fri 30 aug 02
Bruce's descriptions of throwing are consonant with my observations of =
production throwers at work. Like choreographed ballet or modern dance =
they are a delight to watch but their actions are difficult to =
comprehend and almost impossible to describe. This fact alone takes =
Throwing into the realms of a Performance Art.
But there is a fundamental concept which is either not understood or =
seemingly unamenable to comprehension relating to the activity of =
shaping clay. Always, so it seems to me, the descriptions consider that =
clay is being squeezed, compressed or stretched. When you think deeply =
about it, this is seldom true. In almost every instance, actions at the =
wheel require that the clay be Extruded.
I like to draw an analogy between Clay and Metal. At room temperature =
metals are fairly hard materials which are difficult to shape, almost =
like leather hard clay. But above a certain temperature, the point at =
which they can be forged and rolled, they behave like soft clay, they =
are plastic. What follows is a logical consequence of taking an idea to =
its absurd conclusion.....an new appreciation of the plastic qualities =
of clay.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
Jeremy McLeod on sat 31 aug 02
iandol wrote:
> Bruce's descriptions of throwing are consonant with my observations of production throwers at work. Like choreographed ballet or modern dance they are a delight to watch but their actions are difficult to comprehend and almost impossible to describe. This fact alone takes Throwing into the realms of a Performance Art.
I'm reminded of a story, probably more legend, about Dame Margot Fontaine,
the British ballarina. When approached by an enthusiastic pup of a newspaper
reporter asking about "what she was communicating" in a certain passage of
her interpretation of The Dying Swan, she replied, "My dear young man,
do you think I would go through all the pain of dancing it if I could put it
into words?"
Jeremy McLeod
iandol on sun 1 sep 02
Dear Bruce,
Would you like to view the graphics files which give comparative =
illustrations of the point you describe? ...."If I imagine the wheel =
head as a stationary ramming device and my hands as the face plate in =
movement then the hole between the fingers is the point of =
extrusion".....
Hands are a "Plastic" Die Plate, capable of being formed into an =
infinite variety of shapes through which the clay can be forced.
BVCuma on sun 1 sep 02
>>the descriptions consider that clay is being squeezed, compressed or =
stretched.=20
When you think deeply about it, this is seldom true.
In almost every instance, actions at the wheel require that the clay be =
Extruded.<<
_____________________
Ivor,
The point where direct observation and mental insight merge
is a delicate synthesis of intelligence and understanding.
It will be a good exercise to ponder these mechanical actions..
while exploring the nature of physics in the context of throwing and =
plasticity.
that are fundamentally the root of all expressive input/outputs on the =
wheel.
Looking up the dictionary for the meaning of extrude..."squeeze of force =
out."
This maybe a rudimentary definition...but is it not so?
If I imagine the wheel head as a stationary ramming device
and my hands as the face plate in movement
then the hole between the fingers is the point of extrusion..
Same components in a different arrangement of moving parts..no?
Extrusion would not seem to include stretching...
whereas throwing can in certain circumstances.
Mind extruding clay bender?
Hhhmmn.
Bruce
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