Harrington on tue 27 aug 02
Can someone help me out with homemade versus commercial glazes?
Sometimes I get better results with homemade, but some commercials seem
pretty nice too. I'm wondering this: are you more of a "real artist" if
you use homemade glazes, or is this just a Martha Stewart type thing
that buyers don't really care about. To be blunt: If I use commercial
glazes, will other potters and/or collectors think less of my work? I
notice that very few painters mix their own oil paint. Windsor and
Newton is good enough for most. But it seems like most potters make
their own glazes. Maybe this is economic? Maybe these potters just enjoy
experimenting with the chemistry, which is fascinating even to me who
knows nothing? What is the deal?
Thanks, Lisa
John Hesselberth on tue 27 aug 02
On Tuesday, August 27, 2002, at 12:48 PM, Harrington wrote:
> But it seems like most potters make
> their own glazes. Maybe this is economic? Maybe these potters just enjoy
> experimenting with the chemistry, which is fascinating even to me who
> knows nothing? What is the deal?
Hi Lisa,
As long as you select your commercial glazes with a good deal of care, I
doubt very much that anyone will think less of your work if you use
commercial glazes. If they do THEY have the problem, not you. We all
make choices where to focus our energies.
The reasons I choose to mix my own are primarily to give me control over
that aspect of my work. Glazes are very important to me. By knowing the
composition of my glazes I know that they are 1) stable or durable in
use 2) contain no ingredients I personally don't want to handle or have
in my pottery and 3) modifiable if the need arises. For example if I
change clay bodies I can figure out how to modify the glaze for proper
fit. Or if a key ingredient is no longer available I can generally
substitute another with no change in aesthetics or durability.
There was recently a situation reported here on Clayart where someone
(sorry, I've forgotton who) had bought a new lot of manufactured glaze
and found it was quite different from the last lot he or she had bought
some years before. Unfortunately that person was in the middle of making
a dinnerware set. Another point is that while there are some truly
outstanding commercial glazes there are also some that are just plain
terrible (e.g. I can suck the color right out of them with a slice of
lemon) that are being sold as "food safe" for use on functional pottery.
So, if you decide to go with commercial glazes, I would advise you to
check them out very carefully and go with a reputable supplier who is
willing to talk openly with you about their glazes. While they won't
give you the exact composition or recipe, they should be willing to tell
you about how they test their glazes (or not) and answer questions about
whether or not the glaze contains a specific material, for example
barium. If you get the run-around on questions of this type I would
recommend you look elsewhere.
Regards,
John
Janet Kaiser on tue 27 aug 02
Well, Lisa, first of all it depends a lot on your production levels. If you
are a full-time potter, commercial glazes can be rather expensive, so yes,
from an economic standpoint they are "wrong". The economy of scale is
important. If you do not have the space or facilities for mixing & storage,
then of course commercial is a solution.
You will be not so much a "real artist" when you develop and mix your own
glazes, but you will be a more "complete" one! I know that there are many
who happily use commercial glazes, but it is very difficult to successfully
develop a unique ceramic style, especially on functional work. By this, I
mean you can create and make unique shapes and designs which are all
unmistakenly yours, but then the glaze will let you down by making them
look like they are "related" to all those other pots, made by the hundreds
of other potters who also use the same glaze/s. Although it will be a
foreign concept to many, I always think of commercially glazed pots like a
school full of children who wear school uniforms... All different shapes
and sizes, but obviously out of the same box. It is a virtue in a school,
but is that a virtue for a potter?
And taking your "artist and paints" analogy, artists do not use paint
straight out of the tube, but mix it to create the colours and effects they
want to achieve, often creating a unique palette and work which is
instantly recognisable as theirs. It becomes a vital part of that artist's
style. Making your own glazes is much the same... You just mix minerals and
chemicals to achieve your own mixtures and effects. The result is something
which will be a tremendous aid in creating the complete and unmistakable
"Lisa Harrington look". That will only truly be possible when you use your
own glaze/s.
Just like the top dress designers... They first create the function, shape
and form from neutral calico and they work on that until they are
satisfied. Only then do they consider the type of material, colour,
embellishment, etc. (although they will probably have been thinking about
it at the back of their brain and/or know from experience). The final stage
is a combination of all aspects they have thought through: function, shape,
colour, finish. Slinky green silk or kharki cotton? Whatever they decide,
they still would not dream of using cloth they had not designed themselves!
Janet Kaiser
The Chapel of Art =95 Capel Celfyddyd
8 Marine Crescent, Criccieth LL52 0EA, Wales, UK
Tel: 01766-523570 URL: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
On 27/08/02 at 09:48 Harrington wrote:
>Can someone help me out with homemade versus commercial glazes?
>Sometimes I get better results with homemade, but some commercials seem
>pretty nice too.
Snail Scott on tue 27 aug 02
At 09:48 AM 8/27/02 -0700, you wrote:
>...are you more of a "real artist" if
>you use homemade glazes...
NO.
>...If I use commercial
>glazes, will other potters and/or collectors think less of my work?
Many will. But either the finished work is good, or it
ain't. Most buyers won't care how you got there, or even
know the difference.
>...But it seems like most potters make
>their own glazes. Maybe this is economic?
Partly that. Partly it depends on the work you do. If
there are commercial glazes available that do just what
you want, go ahead and use them. But for certain types of
effects/surfaces/temperatures/atmospheres, there are very
few (if any) commercial glazes available. If you want
those effects, you're gonna have to do it yourself. If
you do ^06 oxidation earthenware, you have a wide palette
of glaze choices in the supply shops, but there are
virtually no commercially-made glazes for ^10 reduction,
and other widely used glaze/firing styles are even more
poorly supplied.
Making your own glaze can give you greater versatility and
control over the result, too. You won't be trapped by
changes in formulation or discontinuation of products. And
you can modify to suit yourself. Want a greener blue? A
matte version? Two cones higher? You can make it that way.
Sure, raw materials vary and get discontinued, too, but
if you understand your materials, you can modify recipes
to accommodate many such changes. And you can get results
that no one else can obtain - you own signature look.
Being able to make glaze is another useful 'tool' among
many in your kit. It won't make your work better, though,
in any real way. If the sculpture is ugly, the pot clunky,
or the surface poorly chosen, the fact that the glaze is
a personal one won't save it. If the most appropriate
surface comes out of a jar with a price tag on top, that
doesn't change the suitability of the contents or the
success of the result.
-Snail
Diane Palmquist on tue 27 aug 02
Hi Lisa,
I do both- mix my own and use commercial glazes. Commercial are
easier,less time consuming and saves space storing all the chemicals.
However mixing your own is cheaper. It is also more fun when you mix your
own sort of like baking with your own recipe for a cake instead of using a
box!
If you ever want to learn the nitty gritty of glazes I would highly
recommend John Hesselberth for his workshop. I did a one day workshop with
him and it was the most I have ever learned about glazes and the chemistry
of them. I would also recommend his book. Easy to read and understand
compared to some of the other ones I have tried! Go to his web site for more
info.
www. frogpondpottery.com
Hope this helps!
Diane
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hesselberth"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: Homemade v. commercial glazes
> On Tuesday, August 27, 2002, at 12:48 PM, Harrington wrote:
>
> > But it seems like most potters make
> > their own glazes. Maybe this is economic? Maybe these potters just enjoy
> > experimenting with the chemistry, which is fascinating even to me who
> > knows nothing? What is the deal?
>
> Hi Lisa,
>
> As long as you select your commercial glazes with a good deal of care, I
> doubt very much that anyone will think less of your work if you use
> commercial glazes. If they do THEY have the problem, not you. We all
> make choices where to focus our energies.
>
> The reasons I choose to mix my own are primarily to give me control over
> that aspect of my work. Glazes are very important to me. By knowing the
> composition of my glazes I know that they are 1) stable or durable in
> use 2) contain no ingredients I personally don't want to handle or have
> in my pottery and 3) modifiable if the need arises. For example if I
> change clay bodies I can figure out how to modify the glaze for proper
> fit. Or if a key ingredient is no longer available I can generally
> substitute another with no change in aesthetics or durability.
>
> There was recently a situation reported here on Clayart where someone
> (sorry, I've forgotton who) had bought a new lot of manufactured glaze
> and found it was quite different from the last lot he or she had bought
> some years before. Unfortunately that person was in the middle of making
> a dinnerware set. Another point is that while there are some truly
> outstanding commercial glazes there are also some that are just plain
> terrible (e.g. I can suck the color right out of them with a slice of
> lemon) that are being sold as "food safe" for use on functional pottery.
>
> So, if you decide to go with commercial glazes, I would advise you to
> check them out very carefully and go with a reputable supplier who is
> willing to talk openly with you about their glazes. While they won't
> give you the exact composition or recipe, they should be willing to tell
> you about how they test their glazes (or not) and answer questions about
> whether or not the glaze contains a specific material, for example
> barium. If you get the run-around on questions of this type I would
> recommend you look elsewhere.
>
> Regards,
>
> John
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
iandol on wed 28 aug 02
Dear Lisa Harrington,=20
I think it best to select what you need from what is possible to achieve =
your own artistic intentions.
Think that there are two sides to the "Home made" solution, those =
recipes you select form the literature and those you devise for yourself =
to add to this dilemma.
This is a good problem where the SWOT analysis comes in useful. Consider =
the Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities and Threats of each option.
Commercial "Readymades" and given recipes usually offer well tested =
products (Strength). Your own inventions have to be proven. But these =
choices may nor respond well on your clay, they may not fit (Weakness). =
Glazes you invent could have unusual colours or textures (Opportunity) =
but they may not be food safe (Threat). Do this sort of brain storming =
exercise and evaluate your own situation. Be guided by your instincts =
and the need for good commercial practice.
Have fun and best regards,
Ivor Lewis, Redhill, South Australia
Timakia@AOL.COM on thu 29 aug 02
This threat comes at a very good time for me and my students, since we
started making glazes for class purposes and I can share your opinions with
them. The group of students that I am working with are all already in
business and they all work with commercial glazes.
My aim is to encourage each of them to develop their own style with the
overall product. In production ware there can be only a certain amount of
different styles to make. If one have the further limitations of glazes, it
becomes a real problem. For that reason, I do think that it is worth the try
to make your own glazes. There are so much information out there today and
there are ways to test glazes for safty etc. More important to me though is,
that potters should also explore all other decorating methods within their
own styles to achieve distinction. Too often, persons start out a business in
ceramic, following in the footsteps of their teacher.
Another field of exploration, can be the combination of different commercial
glazes. By testing and layering, different glazes on top of each other, one
can come up with a whole different pallette. I would say, with some safe
glazes and a little bit of a time effort, there is a wide world open to
explore.
On the other hand, if one can take a basic glaze recipe that work and start
adding oxides to it, you might soon come up with some surprizes that might
encourage you to go further.
Antoinette Badenhorst
http://hometown.aol.com/timakia
105 Westwood circle
Saltillo, MS
38866
Steve Dalton on thu 29 aug 02
Lisa,
I agree with Ivor and here's another thing to be considered. Room. Ask
yourself do you have enough room for all of the ingredients? The potter can
get a better price on large amounts(bulk) and figure that alot of the glazes
average 5 ingredients. Not counting colorants. Also factor in maybe you
will use 3-4 glazes and some of them will need different ingredients as
well.
I'm not trying to shoot down your decision on homemade, but only forwarning.
--
Steve Dalton
Clear Creek Pottery
Snohomish, Wa
sdpotter@gte.net
Marianne Lombardo on thu 29 aug 02
And sometimes you might just feel too tired and weary to bother wanting to
mix up some glazes. I found myself digging through my jars of commercial
glazes yesterday.
Marianne Lombardo
Omemee, Ontario, Canada
email: mlombardo@nexicom.net
Kenneth Guill on wed 4 sep 02
Every time I read the cone10 reduction-commercial or low fire glaze debates
in CM or here I can not help but think-"would we even be discussing this if
we were not all still stuck in the Hamada/Leach cone 10 mind set". There are
other issues to consider in selecting glazes-SAFETY-how many of our loved
cone 10 glazes have been safety tested-how many do we all use that will eat
a microwave oven(Temokos). Homemade glazes, wheels, self dug clay do not
make what you make ART or even good craft. It is what you do and how you do
it that counts in the long run. Thank God Monet never had to make his own
paints-we sure would have lost a great artist. kenn
Tom's E-mail on wed 4 sep 02
Kenneth recently replied that there were issues in glaze selections other
than commercial and low fire debate. For some reason this triggered old
memories
Not the same thing but somewhat remotely related was my purchase of my 1985
Cadillac in 1985. It is a wonderful cream white continental convertable with
white seats and otherwise blue decor. The day I saw this car in 1985 [aflush
with money] I came home and told my physicist [scientific oriented wife] "I
just saw the prettiest car I can imagine and I want to buy it. She asked all
the practical questions - horsepower, motor, warranties etc; I finally said
Carolyn I don't care if it doesn't have a motor it is the most beautiful car
I've ever seen and I am going to buy it if I just park it in front of the
house so I can enjoy it. I've never been able to get rid of that car and
last year put an new motor and transmission into it. It is absolute mint
condition and I seldom drive it anywhere without someone asking if I want to
sell it. Interestingly the year it was sold, it was a special edition and
only 6 were sold in Florida. My kids still tease me and call my beautiful
car the "Pimp mobile"
As an aside I am now almost afraid to drive it; it has been vandalize twice
at malls with scratches and knife cuts in the convertable top. Also I don't
have any special insurance and I worry that if I were in an accident, I
would get blue book price. I mainly keep it in the garage but venture out on
special ocassions. Actually drove it to NEECA two years ago; when I drove
into the parking garage, the attendant asked what it would take to sell it.
BUT LET ME TELL YOU FOLKS THIS IS A WORK OF ART. GOD I LOVE THAT CAR AND I
JUST MAY BE WANTED TO BE BURRIED IN IT SURROUNDED BY ALL MY POTS. ACTUALLY
MY DREAM DEATH, IF THERE IS SUCH A THING IS TO DRIVE OFF A BRIDGE WITH MY
POTTERY COLLECTION IN MY CAR WHEN I HAVE TERMINAL CANCER AND 1 DAY TO LIVE,
THE DEMOCRATS HAVE JUST WON CONTROL OF THE SENATE, THE HOUSE AND ELECTED AN
8 YEAR PRESIDENT..
Tom Sawyer
tsawyer@cfl.rr.com
Jeanie on wed 4 sep 02
Dear Lisa,Many people are led astray because they are led to misidentify
what art is. What it definetely is not is the province of any one group
of people. Still less does it reside in some sort of 'sanctified
usage'of any designated materials. Art begins and ends in your head.
The materials we choose to use are literally the 'means to an end.'
What we are taught to identify as Art is just the artifact left over as
the souvineer of the encounter between the inside of your head and the
world of cause and effect. Its the evidence of what happens when a
thought comes out to play.
Having said that, its still important to say that the materials we
choose are an important part of thia experience. Choosing to formulate
your own glazes says that you want to participate in the long
conversation with potters of the past and that tradition is a
springboard that helps you grab your best ideas. Choosing a commercial
glaze may speak to limited circumstances of space and learning, but it
just as easily can be the hallmark of someone who, conceptually. 'cuts
to the chase'.Some very fine artists allowed themselves to use any means
at hand to get their ideas accross-including commercial glazes. Viola
Frey Michael Lucero come to mind.
But whatever we use I think its on us to understand that materials carry
historical and emotional baggage of their own, and that such
connotations of usage amount to a material allof its own. Learning to
manipulate each material and it 'shadow language' is part of the sheer
unadulterated subversive fun of making art. Its the making that matters....
Jeanie in Pennsylvania
iandol on thu 5 sep 02
Dear Kenneth Guill,=20
Right my friend, tell us all about "Temokos" that "eat microwave ovens".
I have a favourite mug, white clay with a 15 percent saturated iron =
glaze which goes into the microwave twice a day for 1.45. Makes a great =
pot of coffee. Am I doing something wrong??
Best regards, Ivor
Earl Brunner on thu 5 sep 02
One man's Heaven, another man's Hell........
Actually if that were to happen, I'd be ready to drive off a bridge,
cancer or not....
:)
Earl Brunner
mailto:bruec@anv.net
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On
Behalf Of Tom's E-mail
Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 9:01 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Homemade v. commercial glazes
THE DEMOCRATS HAVE JUST WON CONTROL OF THE SENATE, THE HOUSE AND ELECTED
AN
8 YEAR PRESIDENT..
Tom Sawyer
tsawyer@cfl.rr.com
Jeremy/Bonnie Hellman on thu 5 sep 02
Hi Tom,
That's not my dream, but I've enjoyed sharing yours. I'm delighted that you
can enjoy this car so much and that you've chosen to share it with us.
However, I would take issue with your wanting to be buried with your pots.
What a waste!
As the saying goes, "you're never too old to enjoy a happy childhood!"
Bonnie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom's E-mail"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: Homemade v. commercial glazes
> Kenneth recently replied that there were issues in glaze selections other
> than commercial and low fire debate. For some reason this triggered old
> memories
>
> Not the same thing but somewhat remotely related was my purchase of my
1985
> Cadillac in 1985. It is a wonderful cream white continental convertable
with
> white seats and otherwise blue decor. The day I saw this car in 1985
[aflush
> with money] I came home and told my physicist [scientific oriented wife]
"I
> just saw the prettiest car I can imagine and I want to buy it. She asked
all
> the practical questions - horsepower, motor, warranties etc; I finally
said
> Carolyn I don't care if it doesn't have a motor it is the most beautiful
car
> I've ever seen and I am going to buy it if I just park it in front of the
> house so I can enjoy it. I've never been able to get rid of that car and
> last year put an new motor and transmission into it. It is absolute mint
> condition and I seldom drive it anywhere without someone asking if I want
to
> sell it. Interestingly the year it was sold, it was a special edition and
> only 6 were sold in Florida. My kids still tease me and call my beautiful
> car the "Pimp mobile"
> As an aside I am now almost afraid to drive it; it has been vandalize
twice
> at malls with scratches and knife cuts in the convertable top. Also I
don't
> have any special insurance and I worry that if I were in an accident, I
> would get blue book price. I mainly keep it in the garage but venture out
on
> special ocassions. Actually drove it to NEECA two years ago; when I drove
> into the parking garage, the attendant asked what it would take to sell
it.
>
> BUT LET ME TELL YOU FOLKS THIS IS A WORK OF ART. GOD I LOVE THAT CAR AND I
> JUST MAY BE WANTED TO BE BURRIED IN IT SURROUNDED BY ALL MY POTS. ACTUALLY
> MY DREAM DEATH, IF THERE IS SUCH A THING IS TO DRIVE OFF A BRIDGE WITH MY
> POTTERY COLLECTION IN MY CAR WHEN I HAVE TERMINAL CANCER AND 1 DAY TO
LIVE,
> THE DEMOCRATS HAVE JUST WON CONTROL OF THE SENATE, THE HOUSE AND ELECTED
AN
> 8 YEAR PRESIDENT..
> Tom Sawyer
> tsawyer@cfl.rr.com
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
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