rudrick on wed 28 aug 02
I was wondering if anyone knows if you need an electrician to connect a 240v
7200 watt kiln to a residential breaker box or if one can do it themselves.
What are the real pros and cons if the installation is not commercial but
simply residential?
If I upgrade the copper line and put in my own 60 amp breaker is this
sufficient to direct wire this kiln?
anitar3@hereintown.net on thu 29 aug 02
Whether you need an electrician depends on where you live and your level o=
f
expertise on wiring=2E Where I live (WV), I can do all my wiring on my si=
de
of the meter=2E Many states and/or cities, however, require permits,
certified electricians, etc=2E You need to check where you live=2E
Anita
Original Message:
"I was wondering if anyone knows if you need an electrician to connect a
240v
7200 watt kiln to a residential breaker box or if one can do it themselves=
=2E
What are the real pros and cons if the installation is not commercial but
simply residential?
If I upgrade the copper line and put in my own 60 amp breaker is this
sufficient to direct wire this kiln?"
--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E
Rob Van Rens on thu 29 aug 02
Rudick:
have an electrician do it. If, by some remote chance, something goes wrong,
and your studio/house burns to the ground because the kiln was wired
improperly, then your insurance will be much more willing to pay the claim
if the work was done by a _licensed_ journeyman electrician.
You _could_ do it yourself, and I've done it for a welder, but I don't
recommend it. Particularly, I don't recommend it if you've never done it
before. Funny story, with a moral: I needed to rewire the garage for 240 to
run the Lincoln Buzz-box (arc welder), so I set about doing so. Garage
walls were lined with insulated metal tiles. I managed to charge the entire
building. Since I was wearing rubber shoes, I didn't know it until I went
to open the door. Grabbed the doorknob and found myself doing the 30-amp
shuffle. Turns out one of the wire nuts I'd used had come off, and the live
wire contacted the metal junction box, which in turn was in contact with the
metal interior walls, etc etc. Scary at the time, kinda funny now.
Point is, don't mess with it unless you're _absolutely_ sure you know what
you're doing. Even then, it's not a real good idea. Hiring a pro makes
anything that goes wrong _his_ problem, not yours.
Robert Van Rens, Workshop Coordinator
Otto Kroeger Associates
703-591-6284, x110 Phone
703-591-8338 Fax
www.typetalk.com
-----Original Message-----
From: rudrick [mailto:millenial_age@YAHOO.COM]
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 12:05 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Do you really need an electrician to connect a kiln?
I was wondering if anyone knows if you need an electrician to connect a 240v
7200 watt kiln to a residential breaker box or if one can do it themselves.
What are the real pros and cons if the installation is not commercial but
simply residential?
If I upgrade the copper line and put in my own 60 amp breaker is this
sufficient to direct wire this kiln?
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Jon Faber on thu 29 aug 02
I know a professional kiln man.
he is not a licensed electrician.
he knows more about the electrician needs to do to
hook up the kiln than does the electrician.
he will NOT do electrical work.
he will do what ever you want with the kiln.
he will NOT do the electrical work.
moral of the story -
Can you do it - probably.
Is it worth it - no - just about definately not - but
nothing is definate.
In sum - just as rob was saying - unless there is some
really good reason to thing that you know what you are
doing - get a pro.
hopefully, it will be a one time expense.
jon
--- Rob Van Rens wrote:
> Rudick:
>
> have an electrician do it. If, by some remote
> chance, something goes wrong,
> and your studio/house burns to the ground because
> the kiln was wired
> improperly, then your insurance will be much more
> willing to pay the claim
> if the work was done by a _licensed_ journeyman
> electrician.
>
> You _could_ do it yourself, and I've done it for a
> welder, but I don't
> recommend it. Particularly, I don't recommend it if
> you've never done it
> before. Funny story, with a moral: I needed to
> rewire the garage for 240 to
> run the Lincoln Buzz-box (arc welder), so I set
> about doing so. Garage
> walls were lined with insulated metal tiles. I
> managed to charge the entire
> building. Since I was wearing rubber shoes, I
> didn't know it until I went
> to open the door. Grabbed the doorknob and found
> myself doing the 30-amp
> shuffle. Turns out one of the wire nuts I'd used
> had come off, and the live
> wire contacted the metal junction box, which in turn
> was in contact with the
> metal interior walls, etc etc. Scary at the time,
> kinda funny now.
>
> Point is, don't mess with it unless you're
> _absolutely_ sure you know what
> you're doing. Even then, it's not a real good idea.
> Hiring a pro makes
> anything that goes wrong _his_ problem, not yours.
>
> Robert Van Rens, Workshop Coordinator
> Otto Kroeger Associates
> 703-591-6284, x110 Phone
> 703-591-8338 Fax
> www.typetalk.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rudrick [mailto:millenial_age@YAHOO.COM]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 12:05 PM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Do you really need an electrician to
> connect a kiln?
>
>
> I was wondering if anyone knows if you need an
> electrician to connect a 240v
> 7200 watt kiln to a residential breaker box or if
> one can do it themselves.
>
> What are the real pros and cons if the installation
> is not commercial but
> simply residential?
>
> If I upgrade the copper line and put in my own 60
> amp breaker is this
> sufficient to direct wire this kiln?
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change
> your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change
> your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at melpots@pclink.com.
__________________________________________________
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Arnold Howard on thu 29 aug 02
I laughed at Rob's description of the "30 amp shuffle."
On Clayart, people have discussed the mistakes their electricians
have made wiring circuits for kilns. When even professionals make
mistakes, I would hesitate to recommend that an inexperienced
person wire a circuit. The safety of your home is at stake. It's
not that wiring is difficult. It's deceptively simple.
When direct-wiring your kiln, I suggest that you include an
electrical cut-off box near the kiln. It is a breaker box wired
into the circuit that conveniently disconnects the kiln. The kiln
should be disconnected when not in use.
Arnold Howard
Paragon
I managed to charge
> the entire
> building. Since I was wearing rubber shoes, I didn't know it
> until I went
> to open the door. Grabbed the doorknob and found myself doing
> the 30-amp
> shuffle. Turns out one of the wire nuts I'd used had come off,
> and the live
> wire contacted the metal junction box, which in turn was in
> contact with the
> metal interior walls, etc etc. Scary at the time, kinda funny
> now.
>
>
> Robert Van Rens, Workshop Coordinator
> Otto Kroeger Associates
> 703-591-6284, x110 Phone
> 703-591-8338 Fax
> www.typetalk.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rudrick [mailto:millenial_age@YAHOO.COM]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 12:05 PM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Do you really need an electrician to connect a kiln?
>
>
> I was wondering if anyone knows if you need an electrician to
> connect a 240v
> 7200 watt kiln to a residential breaker box or if one can do it
> themselves.
>
> What are the real pros and cons if the installation is not
> commercial but
> simply residential?
>
> If I upgrade the copper line and put in my own 60 amp breaker is
> this
> sufficient to direct wire this kiln?
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com
Gavin Stairs on thu 29 aug 02
This is the perennial problem of determining who is an expert if you know
nothing about the subject of the expertise. If you don't know how, how can
you judge if he (she) does? Or, if you do know, and he (she) doesn't, who
should do the job?
Some journeyman electricians know enough to be engineers, but like to have
their hands on the workings. Some only know what somebody drilled into
their heads, and that only precariously. This usually works well enough
when the problem is what comes up over an over in the life of a journeyman,
like wiring a new house with no particular complications. It may not work
very well at all if the problem is unusual, and the journeyman has never
come across it before (or has, but did it wrong then too).
My advice is to read the kiln instructions carefully, and make sure your
particular journeyman is following them. If the instructions from the kiln
manufacturer are being ignored, look out! Get your electrician to explain
in detail why he is not following instructions, and then check with someone
else who should know. If you are at all unfamiliar with the principles
involved, or with the practice of actually doing the work, it is probably
too great a risk to do it yourself, because of the risk of invalidating
your insurance, among other reasons. But that does not let you off the
hook: it's your installation, and it's your risk. Check and learn what is
going on, or get someone competent to check for you if you feel that you
are confused. There's actually nothing very complicated about it, if you
are familiar with the sort of thing that is important, and what is
not. But if it is all Greek to you, don't trust any one other person to be
the expert: get it checked. If the electrician and the instruction book
agree with each other, you're probably safe enough.
I'm an engineer who has designed such systems, but when it came to rewiring
parts of my own house, I got the electricians in, because they are familiar
with the current practice, and I would have to research it all
(again). There's something to be said for everyday hands-on
experience. On the other hand, I did check their work.
Gavin
At 09:09 AM 29/08/2002 -0700, you wrote:
>I laughed at Rob's description of the "30 amp shuffle."
>
>On Clayart, people have discussed the mistakes their electricians
>have made wiring circuits for kilns. When even professionals make
>mistakes, I would hesitate to recommend that an inexperienced
>person wire a circuit. The safety of your home is at stake. It's
>not that wiring is difficult. It's deceptively simple.
>
>When direct-wiring your kiln, I suggest that you include an
>electrical cut-off box near the kiln. It is a breaker box wired
>into the circuit that conveniently disconnects the kiln. The kiln
>should be disconnected when not in use.
>
>Arnold Howard
>Paragon
>
>I managed to charge
> > the entire
> > building. Since I was wearing rubber shoes, I didn't know it
> > until I went
> > to open the door. Grabbed the doorknob and found myself doing
> > the 30-amp
> > shuffle. Turns out one of the wire nuts I'd used had come off,
> > and the live
> > wire contacted the metal junction box, which in turn was in
> > contact with the
> > metal interior walls, etc etc. Scary at the time, kinda funny
> > now.
> >
>
> >
> > Robert Van Rens, Workshop Coordinator
> > Otto Kroeger Associates
> > 703-591-6284, x110 Phone
> > 703-591-8338 Fax
> > www.typetalk.com
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rudrick [mailto:millenial_age@YAHOO.COM]
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 12:05 PM
> > To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> > Subject: Do you really need an electrician to connect a kiln?
> >
> >
> > I was wondering if anyone knows if you need an electrician to
> > connect a 240v
> > 7200 watt kiln to a residential breaker box or if one can do it
> > themselves.
> >
> > What are the real pros and cons if the installation is not
> > commercial but
> > simply residential?
> >
> > If I upgrade the copper line and put in my own 60 amp breaker is
> > this
> > sufficient to direct wire this kiln?
> >
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
>http://finance.yahoo.com
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
Lloyd Cledwyn on thu 29 aug 02
I am not sure if anyone ever answered Rudrick's question. If you do not
have the Amp rating for your kiln you can use the formula
Amps=Watts/Volts or 7200/240 = 30 Amps. A 60 amp is overkill and not safe.
Your Kiln could short, be on fire AND not trip the circuit.
Now for the obligatory 2 cents:
It is funny to me how cautious we encourage others to be but don't we all
have an abundance of personal stories about how we did the 30Amp
Shuffle/Almost burned down the tree above our woodfire chimney/etc etc.
The best anyone can suggest is that the questioner figure out what all of
the cosequences and benefits are of something before they start a project.
To do it yourself will take a lot of your time and a bit of your money. To
hire it out will take a bit of your time and a lot of your money. You
weigh it out. If you really want to do a good job yourself then go to the
city and pull a permit. It WILL NOT be signed off until it is done well.
If you take this route plan on multiplying your time commitment by about 5!
something to think about though. I did that when I replaced all the
plumbing in my house. (wouldn't do it that way again but learned a lot)
If you can answer these questions comfortably then consider doing it
yourself:
1-What is the load on the circuit to the kiln. (is there anything else on
the circuit). If so, run a new line.
2-What is the wire gauge for the circuit? How many conductor circuit is it?
A 3 conductor will not suffice. You need a 4 conductor Circuit.
(120v+,120v-,neutral,ground)
3-What is the manufactured of your circuit breaker box? Need to know this
to buy new breakers.
4-What is the total amperage of the box?
If you have never installed a breaker in your house then you may want to do
A Good amount of research on home wiring before you attempt this. 30Amps
is a considerable amount.
Still with me? Then you will probably be just fine.
The information is out there. Go to a library, call a friend, call another
potter. Be scared! Do it right. Or even call an electrician, pay the
price and watch carefully and have it explained. If they are missing
something that you know should be in place MAKE A FUSS.
Happy Potting
Cheers
Lloyd Cledwyn
************************************
Lloyd Cledwyn
www.llpots.com
651-334-7846
lloyd@llpots.com
************************************
--On Thursday, August 29, 2002 9:09 AM -0700 Arnold Howard
wrote:rr
> I laughed at Rob's description of the "30 amp shuffle."
>
> On Clayart, people have discussed the mistakes their electricians
> have made wiring circuits for kilns. When even professionals make
> mistakes, I would hesitate to recommend that an inexperienced
> person wire a circuit. The safety of your home is at stake. It's
> not that wiring is difficult. It's deceptively simple.
>
> When direct-wiring your kiln, I suggest that you include an
> electrical cut-off box near the kiln. It is a breaker box wired
> into the circuit that conveniently disconnects the kiln. The kiln
> should be disconnected when not in use.
>
> Arnold Howard
> Paragon
>
> I managed to charge
>> the entire
>> building. Since I was wearing rubber shoes, I didn't know it
>> until I went
>> to open the door. Grabbed the doorknob and found myself doing
>> the 30-amp
>> shuffle. Turns out one of the wire nuts I'd used had come off,
>> and the live
>> wire contacted the metal junction box, which in turn was in
>> contact with the
>> metal interior walls, etc etc. Scary at the time, kinda funny
>> now.
>>
>
>>
>> Robert Van Rens, Workshop Coordinator
>> Otto Kroeger Associates
>> 703-591-6284, x110 Phone
>> 703-591-8338 Fax
>> www.typetalk.com
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rudrick [mailto:millenial_age@YAHOO.COM]
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 12:05 PM
>> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>> Subject: Do you really need an electrician to connect a kiln?
>>
>>
>> I was wondering if anyone knows if you need an electrician to
>> connect a 240v
>> 7200 watt kiln to a residential breaker box or if one can do it
>> themselves.
>>
>> What are the real pros and cons if the installation is not
>> commercial but
>> simply residential?
>>
>> If I upgrade the copper line and put in my own 60 amp breaker is
>> this
>> sufficient to direct wire this kiln?
>>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
> http://finance.yahoo.com
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> _____ Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
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