J Cox on thu 29 aug 02
Hello All,
I am new to the list and have a question on what I can use in place of a
ferro frit. I teach high school ceramics and we are starting to develop
our own glazes and I find many glaze recipes ^6 range that call for ferro
frit 3124, 3110 and others, and they are a little pricey so I was wondering
if their was a cheaper substitution? Any advice would be greatly
appreciated.
Blessings,
Joe
Omar Greeman on fri 30 aug 02
Joe,
I appreciate your interest in cost containment. Allow me to profere the
following two cone 6 formulae; neither of which requires a frit.
Translucent Gloss: Gerstlie Borate 495, Silica 320, EPK 160, Whiting 15,
Bentonite, 10. ( I know that Gerstlie is nolonger available but your supplier
will be able to recommend a suitable substitute; Laguna or Gillispy for
example. I have used both and they work just fine.) This glaze produces
good results when colored with the traditional metal oxides. I have had
mixed success with Mason Stains. The darker colors work well but the
pinks,lavenders etc. tend to butn out at temperatures below cone 6.
White Matt: Nephline Syenite 4644 (51.6%), Silica 504 (5.6%), Whiting 1692
(18.8%), Zinc 774 (8.6%), EPK 1386 (15.4%). I have never experimented with
coloring this glaze. However, I know that it works well at cone six because
it was a staple glaze in the studio where I apprenticed.
Hope these will be of help.
OLG
Margaret Barlow on fri 30 aug 02
Hi Joe,
While there is not any direct substitute for a frit (except maybe another
frit by a different manufacturer) it might be possible to substitute less of
a different frit and make up the rest with less expensive materials. This
is totally dependent on the recipe and to do this one needs a glaze calc
program.
I use INSIGHT glaze calc so if you would like to send me your recipes, off
list is fine, I will see if I can help you reduce the amount of the frits
and hence the cost.
Margaret
----- Original Message -----
From: "J Cox"
To:
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 9:11 PM
Subject: Frits Substition
> Hello All,
> I am new to the list and have a question on what I can use in place of a
> ferro frit. I teach high school ceramics and we are starting to develop
> our own glazes and I find many glaze recipes ^6 range that call for ferro
> frit 3124, 3110 and others, and they are a little pricey so I was
wondering
> if their was a cheaper substitution? Any advice would be greatly
> appreciated.
>
> Blessings,
> Joe
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
Lily Krakowski on fri 30 aug 02
The regretable answer is NO. Frits are blends of materials that have been
fired into a glass and then ground to powder. Many of these materials are
water-soluble in the natural state, and therefore hard to use. Ferro of
course it the name of the manufacturer, but you knew that. The number
identifies the "model" as it were, and the recipes are available. See Bill
Hunt's 1978 article in Ceramics Monthly --don't have month info on hand.
Frits do save money in that, by providing a lot of ingredients in one unit,
they spare you buying a bit of this and a bit of that. Much like buying a
cake mix rather than flour AND baking powder AND sugar--you get the picture.
Where you CAN save money is by using only one frit as your base. You can
huge amounts of time exploring the many recipes that call for, let us say,
Frit 3134. I am sure others will provide them, I sure would if Mel allows
me to take up CLAYART space.
By using only one frit you can buy a larger unit and save. JUST REMEMBER;
FRITS ARE JUST AS DANGEROUS TO BREATHE AS OTHER CHEMICALS WE USE.
J Cox writes:
> Hello All,
> I am new to the list and have a question on what I can use in place of a
> ferro frit. I teach high school ceramics and we are starting to develop
> our own glazes and I find many glaze recipes ^6 range that call for ferro
> frit 3124, 3110 and others, and they are a little pricey so I was wondering
> if their was a cheaper substitution? Any advice would be greatly
> appreciated.
>
> Blessings,
> Joe
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Lili Krakowski
P.O. Box #1
Constableville, N.Y.
(315) 942-5916/ 397-2389
Be of good courage....
Ron Collins on fri 30 aug 02
One of my favorites....the one I use mostly is Burke's Celadon from
archives....it uses no GB, no frit, very inexpensive to make...the most
costly thing is the 5 percent zinc oxide...but it's a great glaze, can be
opacified, and best of all, al little colorant goes a long llong
way....doesn't take much at all, in fact for my celadon (oxidation) it only
takes 0.25%....at a fast cone 5 or 6 it is glossy, but if slow cooled, it is
more frosty matt....try it....Melinda Collins, Antigua Guatemala
Ron Roy on mon 2 sep 02
This glaze has quite a low calculated expansion - Keeping in mind there is
16.69% B2O3 which over the 12% limit for accurate calculated expansion
information for this oxide.
If B2O3 amount is over 12% the expansion factor for boron needs to be
raised but I don't know by how much and it varies with amounts over 12%.
Best to do some fit testing with this glaze on the inside only to make sure
it's not a pot buster.
The current Gers Borate available is more refractory - if I use that
analysis I get an even lower expansion number.
I have made a glaze that may look the same but I have raised the expansion
a fair amount - I have not tested it so if any of you decide to - let us
know how it works.
CadyCal - 9.0
Frit 3134 - 48.0
Talc - 3.0
EPK - 21.5
Silica - 18.5
Bentonite - not needed
Total - 100.0
John has found that this type of glaze (high boron) may be stable - add 5%
copper carb and have it tested to see if it is.
See comments on the other glaze below.
>I appreciate your interest in cost containment. Allow me to profere the
>following two cone 6 formulae; neither of which requires a frit.
>
>Translucent Gloss: Gerstlie Borate 495, Silica 320, EPK 160, Whiting 15,
>Bentonite, 10. ( I know that Gerstlie is nolonger available but your supplier
>will be able to recommend a suitable substitute; Laguna or Gillispy for
>example. I have used both and they work just fine.) This glaze produces
>good results when colored with the traditional metal oxides. I have had
>mixed success with Mason Stains. The darker colors work well but the
>pinks,lavenders etc. tend to butn out at temperatures below cone 6.
The following glaze is very low in SiO2 and it probably will release
whatever is in the glaze into food - just a thought in case anyone thinks
"stable" in this case means durable.
>White Matt: Nephline Syenite 4644 (51.6%), Silica 504 (5.6%), Whiting 1692
>(18.8%), Zinc 774 (8.6%), EPK 1386 (15.4%). I have never experimented with
>coloring this glaze. However, I know that it works well at cone six because
>it was a staple glaze in the studio where I apprenticed.
RR
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
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