C Stamp on tue 10 sep 02
I'm teaching an introductory throwing class at a high school
and have a student who wants to learn how to facet pots.
Any suggestions, techniques?
Chara Stamp
Somerville, MA
USA
Charles Moore on tue 10 sep 02
Chara,
I would check with Calyart's own Hank Murrow, who makes the most wonderful
faceting tool that I have seen. He will surely be able to tell you all you
need to know about faceting.
Hank's email is hmurrow@efn.org. He can lead you to his web site.
Charles Moore
Sacramento
----- Original Message -----
From: "C Stamp"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 11:59 AM
Subject: faceting thrown pots
> I'm teaching an introductory throwing class at a high school
> and have a student who wants to learn how to facet pots.
> Any suggestions, techniques?
>
> Chara Stamp
> Somerville, MA
> USA
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
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>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Dannon Rhudy on tue 10 sep 02
> I'm teaching an introductory throwing class at a high school
> and have a student who wants to learn how to facet pots.
> Any suggestions, techniques?.......>
A pot can be wet-faceted while still on the wheel, simply
by holding a short stretch of cut-off wire between your
thumbs, and slicing through the wet clay. This will give
a fluid, softer feel to the faceting. Or, wait until the piece
is soft-leather hard and slice with a stiff wire, a loop tool,
or any tool stiff enough to slice through the clay. This
will give a different look. When the clay is hard-leather
hard, any sharp knife can be used to cut facets, and this
will give yet another look. Finally, a wood rasp, curved or
straight, can be used to make deep facets on leather-hard
or dry clay. Have the student try several different things -
a lot can be learned.
regards
Dannon Rhudy
Dave Finkelnburg on tue 10 sep 02
Chara,
Hank Murrow has sent some comments to the list about this. I suggest
your search the Archives.
Basically, Hank throws a thickish cylinder, facets using one of his
great wire tools (see them and examples of his faceted pots on his website
http://www.murrow.biz/hank/kiln-and-tools.htm ) and then finishes throwing
the piece from the inside. The latter step is not a requirement. You can
stop at just faceting, too.
Fine clay bodies work best for faceting. Coarse grog or sand is
problematic for this technique.
Like all we do, it takes a little practice, getting used to cutting the
facet without taking too much, too little, or cutting in the wrong place.
Hope this is helpful,
Dave Finkelnburg enjoying the soft afternoon light of a late summer
evening in Idaho
----- Original Message -----
From: "C Stamp"
> I'm teaching an introductory throwing class at a high school
> and have a student who wants to learn how to facet pots.
> Any suggestions, techniques?
> Chara Stamp
> Somerville, MA
> USA
Lily Krakowski on tue 10 sep 02
The basic principle is to have a thick walled pot, and divide it into
sections ( measure around it, mark distances gently) and shave/plane the
excess when the pot is leather hard. You can use a wire cheese cutter (fun,
cheap) a little wire harp --write me directly and I will explain that) a
Surform (TM) tool. To do is easy. To do well takes practice.
C Stamp writes:
> I'm teaching an introductory throwing class at a high school
> and have a student who wants to learn how to facet pots.
> Any suggestions, techniques?
>
> Chara Stamp
> Somerville, MA
> USA
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Lili Krakowski
P.O. Box #1
Constableville, N.Y.
(315) 942-5916/ 397-2389
Be of good courage....
John Kimpton Dellow on wed 11 sep 02
A cheese cutter works well for me
C Stamp wrote:
>
> I'm teaching an introductory throwing class at a high school
> and have a student who wants to learn how to facet pots.
> Any suggestions, techniques?
>
> Chara Stamp
> Somerville, MA
> USA
--
John Dellow "the flower pot man"
Home Page http://www.welcome.to/jkdellow
http://digitalfire.com/education/people/dellow/
Rob Van Rens on wed 11 sep 02
I have the best results at leatherhard, with a shur-form plane...it leaves a
slight texture, which I smooth out with a soft rubber rib.
These, incidentally, are two of my favorite tools. I've only recently
started using the shur-form, and my immediate response was "baby, where have
you been all my life?" (or at least the six months I've been working in
clay?)
Robert Van Rens, Workshop Coordinator
Otto Kroeger Associates
703-591-6284, x110 Phone
703-591-8338 Fax
www.typetalk.com
-----Original Message-----
From: John Kimpton Dellow [mailto:dellowjk@TPG.COM.AU]
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 6:07 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: faceting thrown pots
A cheese cutter works well for me
C Stamp wrote:
>
> I'm teaching an introductory throwing class at a high school
> and have a student who wants to learn how to facet pots.
> Any suggestions, techniques?
>
> Chara Stamp
> Somerville, MA
> USA
--
John Dellow "the flower pot man"
Home Page http://www.welcome.to/jkdellow
http://digitalfire.com/education/people/dellow/
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__
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You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
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Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
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John Baymore on wed 11 sep 02
Hi. Back from Japan, over my jetlag, and starting to have time to read
CLAYART once again.
There are numerous ways to facet pots.............. been doing it for abo=
ut
30 years..... and have tried a good many of of them.
The hardest part for many people is getting past the idea of maybe
"screwing up" that piece that they just threw . It helps to have the
skills to make basic thrown (or handbuilt) forms down pretty well
first....... makes those cuts come more freely. Cut through the wall...=
.
oh well..... just make another one. For doing any type of "thrown and
altered" work.... it really helps when there is no attitude of
"preciousness" about the base form you are about to alter. Just "have at=
it". (In my "thrown and altered" course one of my favorite retorts is
"whack it with a 2 x 4 and see what happens.....then go from there").
Each method of faceting carries it's own qualities into the finished form=
. =
If you facet with the clay harder.... the nature of the facet reflects
this. If you facet with the clay wet... this shows too. Try faceting at=
different times to learn the differences that tend to be inherent in each=
.
If you are faceting with work that is pretty firm.... leatherhard.... the=
n
a cutting blade of some sort works pretty nicely. For me fettling knives=
are too dull. Find a old rusty but still sharp real knife. Nice new shi=
ny
metal likes to stick to clay....... so the rusty surface can help allow t=
he
knife to keep from wanting to "bind" as it goes through the wall. Usuall=
y
it is best to cut down toward the bottom with the piece resting on a firm=
surface..... but like just about everything in ceramics.....it depends on=
the particular situation. (And of course....watch put for your various
body parts !)
For in between hardness.... things like cheeze cutters (a wire held in a
cutting frame....sometimes with depth guide) seem to work well.
For wet faceting (my main particular "stock in trade") simply using a cut=
off wire held between the hands works well. Insert it into the clay wall=
and move the hands downward or upward. Experiment with cutting single lo=
ng
facets and also with making shorter multiple cuts over the same distance.=
=
Experiment with the nature of the wire or blade.......... twisted wire
leaves a different character from untwisted wire. A serated knife leaves=
different marks from a smooth one. And so on. Make shorter wires for
faceting use...... saves wrapping excess around your fingers. (PS: =
throw out wires that have little strands coming loose immediately.... the=
fingers you save may be your own.)
Keep in mind that some forms you see that appear faceted are actually
paddled into hard edges when slightly less than leatherhard.
Then there is the "wear it away" approach of faceting using tools like
rasps and Surform blades..... where you kind of wear off the clay in laye=
rs
until it looks the way you want it to. This usually imparts an interesti=
ng
texture to the "facets".
You can combine paddling flat faces first with cutting with a knife later=
to get a different look and also to make possible deeper facets without
having to leave the clay wall so thick to start with.
Also...... somehow it seems that people forget that you can facet HANDBUI=
LT
forms too. Try cutting facets into coil, slab, and even pinch pots too.
One thing that I think is quite important when faceting is what the
Japanese call "tsuchi aji".... literally...."clay taste". It means the
characer of the clay itself. Cutting into a wall of clay reveals all of
the character of the raw material .... which is often obscured on the
thrown or handbuilt surface by the touch of the fingers packing and
smoothing the surface. Mentori (Japanese term for faceting) is a great w=
ay
to reveal the real nature of the clay. Sometimes for certain wet faceted=
pieces I have clay that has a substantial quantity of up to 1/4 inch to 3=
/8
inch NH granite chunks in it. The facets revel these rocks in very
interesting ways.
A lot of what I do with facets involves throwing a cylinder, faceting the=
clay while wet on the wheel, then streching the form from the inside. I
play with capturing the contrast of the two main characteristics of
clay...... hard and soft...... in the resulting forms. The hard edges of=
the facets are contrasted with soft, suculent rounded smooth clay edges. =
If the streching is done with the inside surface wet... the facets just
expand into the new form (like with the small bowls that I have been maki=
ng
for about 25 years that many on CLAYART are familiar with -
http://www.JohnBaymore.com/facetbowl.htm -). If the streching is done wi=
th
the inside surface and hand dry, the clay being driven at the bottom
combined with the drag from the friction of the inside fingers produces
torque on the plastic material.... which "shears" a bit and the facet
patterns then take on a twisting swirl going around the form. (A slightl=
y
twisted one is at http://www.JohnBaymore.com/mizusas1.htm) (In writing
this I noticed that I don't have a lot of the more twisted faceted pieces=
up on my website!!!!!! I'll fix that sometime soon .)
Doing this "twist" bit for many, many years with straight plain facets le=
d
me to the newer forms that I have been exploring for the past three years=
or so (http://wwwJohnBaymore.com/twstTpot.htm or =
http://www.JohnBaymore.com/hitachi1.htm). These are wet fluted and then
streched into shape, and there are a few that combine the looks of both
twisted wet faceting and wet fluting on the same surfaces.
Best,
..............................john
John Baymore
River Bend Pottery
22 Riverbend Way
Wilton, NH 03086 USA
603-654-2752 (s)
800-900-1110 (s)
JohnBaymore.com
JBaymore@compuserve.com
James Bowen on thu 12 sep 02
John Baymore make a good point about the rusty knife as
opposed to a new one. I wonder if it's not just a question
of the newer knife being stainless steel as opposed to the
old one being carbon steel. Clay seems to stick to stainless
steel blades more readily than carbon (the kind that rusts)
steel. I have noticed in my own experience with trimming
tools that for me (I usually trim pots that are pretty soft)
the clay doesn't scour off the stainless steel trimming
tools (Kemper, Brown) like it does on the carbon steel
(Dolan) tools. Mostly I now use wire loop tools instead of
loop tools made with blades for trimming. I have a well
worn Dolan pear corer shape that is now not much more than a
wire loop now that work better than a new one.
The tools that the late Jerry Hornung made in his "Making
Pot's On the Wheel" video seem to work great on soft clay.
But then his pots seem to be very soft when he trims them.
Still the best throwing videos. I will miss that smile and
enthusiasm at NCECA next year. Good man.
"If you give a man a loaf of bread, that's democracy. If you
leave the wrapper on, that's imperialism"
Billy Wilder
Tommy Humphries on thu 12 sep 02
the reason (in my reasoning) that REAL steel tools do not let clay stick is
that stainless steel is too darn slick, and polished. Carbon steel has many
small pits and scorings on the surface that clay just will not stick to. My
stainless throwing ribs have been magically treated with sandpaper to resist
this adhesion tendency, but clay will still stick if there is not enough
water or slip present.
Tommy
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Bowen"
To:
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: faceting thrown pots
> John Baymore make a good point about the rusty knife as
> opposed to a new one. I wonder if it's not just a question
> of the newer knife being stainless steel as opposed to the
> old one being carbon steel. Clay seems to stick to stainless
> steel blades more readily than carbon (the kind that rusts)
> steel.
Bob Hanlin on sun 15 sep 02
Responding to the stainless steel problem...I wet my cutter between cuts
so's the clay doesn't stick.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tommy Humphries"
To:
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: faceting thrown pots
> the reason (in my reasoning) that REAL steel tools do not let clay stick
is
> that stainless steel is too darn slick, and polished. Carbon steel has
many
> small pits and scorings on the surface that clay just will not stick to.
My
> stainless throwing ribs have been magically treated with sandpaper to
resist
> this adhesion tendency, but clay will still stick if there is not enough
> water or slip present.
>
> Tommy
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Bowen"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 10:44 AM
> Subject: Re: faceting thrown pots
>
>
> > John Baymore make a good point about the rusty knife as
> > opposed to a new one. I wonder if it's not just a question
> > of the newer knife being stainless steel as opposed to the
> > old one being carbon steel. Clay seems to stick to stainless
> > steel blades more readily than carbon (the kind that rusts)
> > steel.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
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