Paul Lewing on sat 14 sep 02
Melinda, if what you have is indeed kaolin contaminated with whiting, your
test method would probably get you a pretty close estimate of the relative
proportions. But if I were you, I'd not bother with working any of this out
on a computer. One of the big limitations of calculation software is that
it's only as good as your database, and here your analysis would be pure
guesswork. This test will give you an idea as to the fluxing power of your
mixture, but it won't tell you even grossly what oxides are in there.
I think a better approach would be to do the test you suggest, and from
those results, continue line blending other materials with it till you get
what you're after. I think a computer analysis of your guess will just give
you a false sense that you know what's going on. This could be an instance
where Ian Currie's grid method or a variation on it would be a more
effective way of getting something workable.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Paul Lewing, Seattle
Ron Collins on sat 14 sep 02
I know that I maybe should give up, but am not yet.
If I take the contaminated kaolin that melts at cone six, I don't know =
exactly where, and contains, we think, large amounts of calcium =
carbonate.
If I make little cones, and put them in firings at different temps, =
and am able to determine the melting cone temperature. I know that cone =
temps take more into consideration, but let's forget about all that for =
the moment.
THEN, take regular epk, and start adding increments of calcium carb =
until I get the correct proportion that will melt at the same temp as =
the above contaminated cone, will I then have a sort of analysis of the =
percentage, which that then could be put in a computer program and find =
out how much silica to add to fully combine the calcium carb with silica =
so that no extra lime/quicklime, calcium oxide, calcia, whatever you =
want to call it, would be left over? and then from that, with =
computer, know how much other materials,etc to add to make a workable =
midrange cone 2-3 body that was in balance concerning the calcium carb. =
I know it is not precise, but that might give us a rough percentage =
of the whiting in the clay. Does that make any sense?
Khaimraj Seepersad has helped me to understand the problem thus far, =
and has given me some hope that there can be a solution. So in the =
night, I thought of this....does it make any sense ? Melinda Collins, =
Antigua Guatemala
Alan D. Scott on sun 15 sep 02
Melinda:
Your proposal seems sound. How about just sending a sample off for analysis
(even back to the States)???
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of Ron Collins
Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 8:16 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: would this work?
I know that I maybe should give up, but am not yet.
If I take the contaminated kaolin that melts at cone six, I don't know
exactly where, and contains, we think, large amounts of calcium carbonate.
If I make little cones, and put them in firings at different temps, and
am able to determine the melting cone temperature. I know that cone temps
take more into consideration, but let's forget about all that for the
moment.
THEN, take regular epk, and start adding increments of calcium carb
until I get the correct proportion that will melt at the same temp as the
above contaminated cone, will I then have a sort of analysis of the
percentage, which that then could be put in a computer program and find out
how much silica to add to fully combine the calcium carb with silica so that
no extra lime/quicklime, calcium oxide, calcia, whatever you want to call
it, would be left over? and then from that, with computer, know how much
other materials,etc to add to make a workable midrange cone 2-3 body that
was in balance concerning the calcium carb.
I know it is not precise, but that might give us a rough percentage of
the whiting in the clay. Does that make any sense?
Khaimraj Seepersad has helped me to understand the problem thus far, and
has given me some hope that there can be a solution. So in the night, I
thought of this....does it make any sense ? Melinda Collins, Antigua
Guatemala
____________________________________________________________________________
__
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Ron Roy on mon 16 sep 02
HI Melinda,
Why not add epk till you get a workable body - at what ever cone you work
at. Then you can start to see if you can fit glazes to it. EPK is plastic
to start with - then maybe add some bentonite if it's still short. I am
sure there are some white cone bodies fluxed with CaO on the planet - as
long as there are no chunks of CaO.
By the way - if you but a bar in your kiln - suspended at each end - of
that stuff - and arrange your cones so you can see em - through the spy
hole - when the bar starts to sag you will see what cone is bending. - I
still say add epk till the absorbency is right - less than say 0.5% - then
pray that stuff is all the same.
Better soak some that has been fired to 04 before you do anything - if you
are dealing with quick lime at that point - I don't know what will happen
but I do know you won't like it.
RR
>I know that I maybe should give up, but am not yet.
>If I take the contaminated kaolin that melts at cone six, I don't know
>exactly where, and contains, we think, large amounts of calcium carbonate.
> If I make little cones, and put them in firings at different temps,
>and am able to determine the melting cone temperature. I know that cone
>temps take more into consideration, but let's forget about all that for
>the moment.
> THEN, take regular epk, and start adding increments of calcium carb
>until I get the correct proportion that will melt at the same temp as the
>above contaminated cone, will I then have a sort of analysis of the
>percentage, which that then could be put in a computer program and find
>out how much silica to add to fully combine the calcium carb with silica
>so that no extra lime/quicklime, calcium oxide, calcia, whatever you want
>to call it, would be left over? and then from that, with computer, know
>how much other materials,etc to add to make a workable midrange cone 2-3
>body that was in balance concerning the calcium carb.
> I know it is not precise, but that might give us a rough percentage of
>the whiting in the clay. Does that make any sense?
> Khaimraj Seepersad has helped me to understand the problem thus far,
>and has given me some hope that there can be a solution. So in the
>night, I thought of this....does it make any sense ? Melinda Collins,
>Antigua Guatemala
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
Ron Collins on mon 16 sep 02
Dear Ron,
I will do what you suggest. I will. I have wasted most of the day fiddling
and diddling around with little goobers of clays.....
However, you ask why I don't just add EPK until things go ok. That's a
great idea, and obviously easy, and I never would have gotten into this mess
except:I don't have enough epk/any pure kaolin left except to add to
glazes......
The toilet factory imported their kaolin and ball clay in 50 lbs sacks from
UNIMIN in Canada.....my price I paid was similar to ordering in US and
picking up...around 12 or so cents a pound. Feldspar, and other
things,silica, bentonite, the famous calcium carb are Guatemalan, they
process and continue to sell. but no more kaolin or ball clay. My
purchased products from them are as pure, I imagine as anything that you buy
.....very fine, so nice. I found the other place that processes kaolin, and
thought I had a new source, and that's when all this shit hit the fan. Even
the toilet factory knows what passes as local kaolin here is crap, that' why
they import it from Canada.
What threw me for a loop was when I could no longer get kaolin or ball
clay without ordering from Florida.
Axner gave great price.....I ordered 500 lbs EPK and 1300 lbs
OM4.....but it costs over 700 US dollars in freight, and probably more, as
we have a very corrupt customs.....so, I just have been on what we call in
Texas a "tear" to find local products that don't require imports...I may be
using Axner imported white clays for the porcelain part, and maybe for a
good long time, but I refuse to accept that I will have to do that as long
as I live......
.I have thousand dollared myself to death.....just last month or two, a
big blue extruder-a thousand-a thousand dollar order of clays-that I'm still
pissed about-$500 to get the damn extruder into the country, even though we
drove it, we were stupid and it was in original box....so customs has fun
with that.....it never seems to end...
I just am totally pissed off about the way things are going.....Our
standard of living would rise dramatically if I just closed 'er up...but I
can't quit, I'll never quit, I don't know much, but I know I sleep better at
night knowing that I can make whatever I want, when I want, without feeling
like it all has to be thimble size with dollar a pound white clays from
Florida.... I will not change to red or brown...our work here can be the
best...I'll never settle.......don't have an income from this much, yet at
all, I won't take the time to try....can't get out of studio....no mixing
equipment so Ron has to work so hard for me to whip out a bunch of big
platters.... anything I can talk Ron into making using a turbo mixer, a
bucket and some rags to dry it out on and then wedge it up....why don't you
come down and we'll talk? For sure, I'd love to take you on a "buying
materials" expedition......what happened anyway? You were going to come
down....I can act nice, you know......with all best regards, Melinda I
guess you can tell I've had a nice Guatemalan rum and a day that started in
the studio at 5.....Ron is so happy tonight-- me having such a pleasant
disposition and all.......I AM getting an intern/apprentice from California
we pick up Sunday, and she can help get some of these marketing things
underway.....I still remember and think about Tony Clennell's level-headed
posts about marketing and am always "going to start" ......
Ron Roy on sun 22 sep 02
Hi Melinda,
I do so much want to help you - want to come for a visit - want to learn
and problem solve but not now I am afraid - so much to do here and I have
not made any pots for it seems like forever.
Think of me being there in spirit because part of me is.
I do admire your determination to keep it up down there.
Anyway - you know where I am if you think I have any answers for you - I
find myself thinking about how you could reduce the shipping costs -
Howard would be better able to help in that - I do know he ships to some
places in SA - container loads by water - that is cheaper of course but
what a lot of money to start with.
I find myself wishing things were easier for you but I can't do anything to
help - even a shopping trip - how would I know what would work. There must
be others that would have better skills at that sort of thing.
Anyway - best regards to you both - I do hope life gets better for you both
- and I will do my part when I can.
RR
>I will do what you suggest. I will. I have wasted most of the day fiddling
>and diddling around with little goobers of clays.....
>However, you ask why I don't just add EPK until things go ok. That's a
>great idea, and obviously easy, and I never would have gotten into this mess
>except:I don't have enough epk/any pure kaolin left except to add to
>glazes......
>
>The toilet factory imported their kaolin and ball clay in 50 lbs sacks from
>UNIMIN in Canada.....my price I paid was similar to ordering in US and
>picking up...around 12 or so cents a pound. Feldspar, and other
>things,silica, bentonite, the famous calcium carb are Guatemalan, they
>process and continue to sell. but no more kaolin or ball clay. My
>purchased products from them are as pure, I imagine as anything that you buy
>.....very fine, so nice. I found the other place that processes kaolin, and
>thought I had a new source, and that's when all this shit hit the fan. Even
>the toilet factory knows what passes as local kaolin here is crap, that' why
>they import it from Canada.
>
> What threw me for a loop was when I could no longer get kaolin or ball
>clay without ordering from Florida.
> Axner gave great price.....I ordered 500 lbs EPK and 1300 lbs
>OM4.....but it costs over 700 US dollars in freight, and probably more, as
>we have a very corrupt customs.....so, I just have been on what we call in
>Texas a "tear" to find local products that don't require imports...I may be
>using Axner imported white clays for the porcelain part, and maybe for a
>good long time, but I refuse to accept that I will have to do that as long
>as I live......
> .I have thousand dollared myself to death.....just last month or two, a
>big blue extruder-a thousand-a thousand dollar order of clays-that I'm still
>pissed about-$500 to get the damn extruder into the country, even though we
>drove it, we were stupid and it was in original box....so customs has fun
>with that.....it never seems to end...
> I just am totally pissed off about the way things are going.....Our
>standard of living would rise dramatically if I just closed 'er up...but I
>can't quit, I'll never quit, I don't know much, but I know I sleep better at
>night knowing that I can make whatever I want, when I want, without feeling
>like it all has to be thimble size with dollar a pound white clays from
>Florida.... I will not change to red or brown...our work here can be the
>best...I'll never settle.......don't have an income from this much, yet at
>all, I won't take the time to try....can't get out of studio....no mixing
>equipment so Ron has to work so hard for me to whip out a bunch of big
>platters.... anything I can talk Ron into making using a turbo mixer, a
>bucket and some rags to dry it out on and then wedge it up....why don't you
>come down and we'll talk? For sure, I'd love to take you on a "buying
>materials" expedition......what happened anyway? You were going to come
>down....I can act nice, you know......with all best regards, Melinda I
>guess you can tell I've had a nice Guatemalan rum and a day that started in
>the studio at 5.....Ron is so happy tonight-- me having such a pleasant
>disposition and all.......I AM getting an intern/apprentice from California
>we pick up Sunday, and she can help get some of these marketing things
>underway.....I still remember and think about Tony Clennell's level-headed
>posts about marketing and am always "going to start" ......
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
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