terry sullivan on tue 24 sep 02
Guess I must agree with Rush on this. I do see Carlas point of view,
but I do think the NY sculpture of the falling woman is just to harsh a
reminder at this time. Maybe for all time. I have so many friends who
were there when the towers collapsed. Many of them worked for days and
weeks to help the survivors in spite of their personal feelings and
loss. If you didn't live and work there how could you imagine the
terror and loss these people felt and continue to feel. It was a
horrendous thing to live with and through.
These people don't need the tradigy thrust in their face every day by
such a sculpture. Believe me when I tell you it was an event of
magnitude surpassing anything you can imagine in your personal life. I
have forced myself to watch many documentaries on the 9/11 incident.
Normally I do not watch these things on TV, but I wanted to feel and
understand as well as I could what these people experienced.
It has not been easy. Many times I watch with tears flowing.
Nonetheless; I have been supporting families and individuals who were
and are doing all they could to council and help those at ground zero
from day one. I can only send financial help so they can help others.
I'd go myself if I could but that is not possible, so I help them to do
the good work on the scene.
These folks have given up income and personal life to help those who
were devastated in 9/11. Many of them had much personal loss with the
disaster but kept on helping regardless of loss or financial loss.
They certainly do not need to be reminded of the horrific scenes they
witnessed that day.
Some thoughts,
Terry Sullivan
Nottingham Arts
claybair on wed 25 sep 02
You know Terry I understand your position BUT
like the Nazi atrocities and Hiroshima and Vietnam and
the World Wars and other instances of man's inhumanity throughout history
I do not want to forget... I want that harsh reminder.... so I can do my
part to ensure they are not repeated.
I lived relatively close to Columbine when the tragedy occurred
there........ I was insane with grief........ but I did not turn away from
it.......... it still haunts me just as the time I spent with my dad as he
lay dying.
Your financial contribution is admirable... I did the same thing...... but I
need to do more and for me is not to let it pass or fade into distant
memory.
So you and Arti can close down the Holocaust museum, the Vietnam Memorial,
Auschwitz memorial, extinguish the flame at JFK's grave site, debunk Martin
Luther King's contribution to racial equality all because it makes us feel
uncomfortable..... Hey... you might as well remove all the crosses in
churches and around peoples necks as they also depict pain, suffering and an
ultimate sacrifice.
Ok... I am done...... I will try my best to say no more on this issue. I
close with the poem written by Fischl, which appeared on a plaque near the
sculpture, read:
"We watched,
disbelieving and helpless,
on that savage day.
People we love
began falling,
helpless and in disbelief."
I do not believe this person was trying to capitalize on the tragedy but was
so impacted that he had to find the best way to express it.
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island, WA
http://claybair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of terry sullivan
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 9:20 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: reply to Carla / the NY sculpture
Guess I must agree with Rush on this. I do see Carlas point of view,
but I do think the NY sculpture of the falling woman is just to harsh a
reminder at this time. Maybe for all time. I have so many friends who
were there when the towers collapsed. Many of them worked for days and
weeks to help the survivors in spite of their personal feelings and
loss. If you didn't live and work there how could you imagine the
terror and loss these people felt and continue to feel. It was a
horrendous thing to live with and through.
These people don't need the tradigy thrust in their face every day by
such a sculpture. Believe me when I tell you it was an event of
magnitude surpassing anything you can imagine in your personal life. I
have forced myself to watch many documentaries on the 9/11 incident.
Normally I do not watch these things on TV, but I wanted to feel and
understand as well as I could what these people experienced.
It has not been easy. Many times I watch with tears flowing.
Nonetheless; I have been supporting families and individuals who were
and are doing all they could to council and help those at ground zero
from day one. I can only send financial help so they can help others.
I'd go myself if I could but that is not possible, so I help them to do
the good work on the scene.
These folks have given up income and personal life to help those who
were devastated in 9/11. Many of them had much personal loss with the
disaster but kept on helping regardless of loss or financial loss.
They certainly do not need to be reminded of the horrific scenes they
witnessed that day.
Some thoughts,
Terry Sullivan
Nottingham Arts
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Megan Ratchford on wed 25 sep 02
Clayblair said
"I lived relatively close to Columbine when the tragedy occurred
there........ I was insane with grief........ but I did not turn away from
it.......... it still haunts me"
I guess what all of this brings up for me is difference in blunt statements.
The Columbine tragedy has not been memorialized by placing fallen students,
artfully cast in bronze, in an installation on the grounds of the school.
It takes no imagination or grace to think that up. The sculpture in
question is very, very blunt. It shocks, it makes us think of those poor
people, but not in an embracing way, it makes us take a step back from them
in terror. We close ourselves against their memory instead of embracing
them. At what point do we as artists allow the beauty of imagery to speak
for us in a painful and powerful piece? Do we think our audience is so
stupid that we need to hit them over the head with a sledge hammer?
I drive by the columbine crosses every day. My eyes linger on them as I
remember how our world shut down that day and all police for miles around
rushed West of me four miles. They are very simple, no glorious amount of
imagination, just a simple heart-felt reminder of the horror and those we
lost to it. It does not shock or bring to mind our terror only, but mixes
with it a sense of our grief and a our desire never to forget. We embrace
the memories of those lost. The statue in NY is like a double-headed calf
in a jar of formaldehyde for me. Horrifying but intriguing, your stomach
knots in terror as you can't tear your eyes away. I like to remember the
terrible events, to learn to cope with them, in some other way than viewing
them like I would a show of "oddities" in a carnival.
Megan Ratchford
Littleton Colorado, where it seems that the brutal heat of Summer is finally
easing in time for our wood kiln firing.
----- Original Message -----
From: "claybair"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 3:07 AM
Subject: Re: reply to Carla / the NY sculpture
> You know Terry I understand your position BUT
> like the Nazi atrocities and Hiroshima and Vietnam and
> the World Wars and other instances of man's inhumanity throughout history
> I do not want to forget... I want that harsh reminder.... so I can do my
> part to ensure they are not repeated.
>
> I lived relatively close to Columbine when the tragedy occurred
> there........ I was insane with grief........ but I did not turn away from
> it.......... it still haunts me just as the time I spent with my dad as he
> lay dying.
>
> Your financial contribution is admirable... I did the same thing...... but
I
> need to do more and for me is not to let it pass or fade into distant
> memory.
>
> So you and Arti can close down the Holocaust museum, the Vietnam Memorial,
> Auschwitz memorial, extinguish the flame at JFK's grave site, debunk
Martin
> Luther King's contribution to racial equality all because it makes us feel
> uncomfortable..... Hey... you might as well remove all the crosses in
> churches and around peoples necks as they also depict pain, suffering and
an
> ultimate sacrifice.
>
> Ok... I am done...... I will try my best to say no more on this issue. I
> close with the poem written by Fischl, which appeared on a plaque near
the
> sculpture, read:
>
> "We watched,
>
> disbelieving and helpless,
>
> on that savage day.
>
> People we love
>
> began falling,
>
> helpless and in disbelief."
>
> I do not believe this person was trying to capitalize on the tragedy but
was
> so impacted that he had to find the best way to express it.
>
> Gayle Bair
> Bainbridge Island, WA
> http://claybair.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
> Behalf Of terry sullivan
> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 9:20 PM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: reply to Carla / the NY sculpture
>
>
> Guess I must agree with Rush on this. I do see Carlas point of view,
> but I do think the NY sculpture of the falling woman is just to harsh a
> reminder at this time. Maybe for all time. I have so many friends who
> were there when the towers collapsed. Many of them worked for days and
> weeks to help the survivors in spite of their personal feelings and
> loss. If you didn't live and work there how could you imagine the
> terror and loss these people felt and continue to feel. It was a
> horrendous thing to live with and through.
>
> These people don't need the tradigy thrust in their face every day by
> such a sculpture. Believe me when I tell you it was an event of
> magnitude surpassing anything you can imagine in your personal life. I
> have forced myself to watch many documentaries on the 9/11 incident.
> Normally I do not watch these things on TV, but I wanted to feel and
> understand as well as I could what these people experienced.
> It has not been easy. Many times I watch with tears flowing.
>
> Nonetheless; I have been supporting families and individuals who were
> and are doing all they could to council and help those at ground zero
> from day one. I can only send financial help so they can help others.
> I'd go myself if I could but that is not possible, so I help them to do
> the good work on the scene.
> These folks have given up income and personal life to help those who
> were devastated in 9/11. Many of them had much personal loss with the
> disaster but kept on helping regardless of loss or financial loss.
> They certainly do not need to be reminded of the horrific scenes they
> witnessed that day.
>
> Some thoughts,
>
> Terry Sullivan
> Nottingham Arts
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Catherine White on wed 25 sep 02
Gayle has best said it for me. I looked at the photo of the sculpture.
Initially, it was too graphic to grasp. Then, the mind tries to imagine the
endless falling, and that's too difficult to truly grasp. But one comes
close. That makes the sculpture so valuable. This terrorist crime against
innocent people did happen as did so many other atrocities. They should not
be forgotten. As time faded the initial harsh reality of the Oklahoma
bombing, that memorial with the empty chairs brought it back. And, that
image makes it unforgettable. I do not cry easily, but tears came at seeing
those chairs, and at the Wall, and at all the white crosses neatly aligned
in cemetaries, and at the Holocaust memorials. Inside me, something asks
why do we do these things to each other. How can we stop this from happening
again. And, even if we cannot change the actions of murderers, still when we
ask why, we reaffirm that most humans are basically decent. To me, that
justifies the memorials.
Catherine in Yuma, AZ
Two ancient electric kilns. One Paragon 18" x 20".
One Crusader 24"X 27". Both outside.
It never rains here at the Mexican border.
One partner, one kid, three cats.
----- Original Message -----
From: "claybair"
Subject: Re: reply to Carla / the NY sculpture
> I do not want to forget... I want that harsh reminder.... so I can do my
> part to ensure they are not repeated.
but I
> need to do more and for me is not to let it pass or fade into distant
> memory.
>
> So you and Arti can close down the Holocaust museum, the Vietnam Memorial,
> Auschwitz memorial, extinguish the flame at JFK's grave site, debunk
Martin
> Luther King's contribution to racial equality all because it makes us feel
> uncomfortable..... Hey... you might as well remove all the crosses in
> churches and around peoples necks as they also depict pain, suffering and
an
> ultimate sacrifice.
> I close with the poem written by Fischl, which appeared on a plaque near
the
> sculpture, read:
>
> "We watched,
>
> disbelieving and helpless,
>
> on that savage day.
>
> People we love
>
> began falling,
>
> helpless and in disbelief."
>
> I do not believe this person was trying to capitalize on the tragedy but
was
> so impacted that he had to find the best way to express it.
>
> Gayle Bair
Pottery by Dai on wed 25 sep 02
Gayle said:
".....close down the Holocaust museum, the Vietnam Memorial, Auschwitz
memorial, extinguish the flame at JFK's grave site, debunk Martin Luther
King's contribution to racial equality all because it makes us feel
uncomfortable....."
I think, Gayle, if the Vietnam Memorial portrayed soldiers' guts exploded
all over the battlefield or bodies burned to a crisp rather than a stunning
black wall inscribed with names, and JFK's grave site showed an artist's
rendition of the President's brains blown out, neither would be an
acceptable tribute to those events/people. I don't think anyone wants to
"forget" those events, nor the extinction of hundreds of thousands of Jews.
I don't need a visual representation of any of these horrible events to
"remind" me that we must all work towards a world where these things don't
happen---and, yes, I do believe that one person "paying it forward" CAN make
a difference. Particularly, that black wall with thousands of names, one
after the other, after the other, has a much bigger impact about the
enormity of the war and its effect on those left, than would be made by any
artist's interpretation of the carnage. As for an artist's view of 9/11 and
its aftermath, my "People's Choice" vote goes to the ice sculpture of a
slumped, exhausted, sick-at-heart rescue worker (fireman, maybe?) with the
large angel hovering over him. (I don't know who sent me the URL, and I
have now lost it in the black hole of my computer, but if anyone's familiar
with this image, and its whereabouts, could you let me know the site
address? Thanks.)
Dai in Armstrong, BC
potterybydai@telus.net
nightfire@telus.net
www.potterybydai.com
Take your work seriously---take yourself lightly. Unknown
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