artimater on sat 5 oct 02
We got cone 10 yellow ....we call it salt yellow......must work in salt =
too....I'm more in to transparent, I do a lot of carving.....I think I =
wrote about this before...What?...Ya'll don listen?..............Otto =
was a teacher
He taught that there was more to life than money....Ya'll don =
listen.....Otto , come see me ....I'll show you some art.....I've paid =
the IRS nothing for 13 years....Cept what I owe out of Gloria's =
retirment..........How bout that "Man's Dilemma " piece?.....Was that =
art?Make me a f**king offer?....If you think you can make art and be a =
part of the system that runs the biz....You are saddly =
mistaken......Otto sells those pots......$250000 dollars....The second =
pot i made is worth 100 times that.....The first maybe too.....It has a =
story....The world is starved for real art....Ten years ago Dallas had =
more money deposited than any ten cities in the world .....Now!... the =
highest rates of office vacancey in the nation...............
So ya'll keep making a little....and let them tell you you are =
only worth piddly shit...............
America has 2% of the population and eats67% of the =
sammmiches.....HAHAHAHAHAA.....cough....cough.......I don't make any =
money....read karl marx......Mebbe give some of you a big hint.....Read =
the boook of Babarous.....Read the 8 lost books of the =
bible.....Religion is a smoke screen.......What matters in this world is =
economic discrimination.......Black brown or purple....YOU can go to =
harvard................................If you have the money
I was gonna be dead when my shit was 20.......(I'll be 47 on the =
27th)......I was gonna be dead at 25....Or a millionaire......At =
30......
Still here and producing....All you blind somsa bitches must =
really be twerked about that HAHAHAHA.....I don't do nothing that ain't =
not fine f**king art and all you F**ks that bring me your money are so =
full of shoit
HEHEHEHEHE........HO F**KING HO g'head mel, stifle the truth and my =
self.......ALLLLL you pissants making the shock shit g'head and make a =
piece called "Man's Dilemma".......The world only needs you and the =
slave labor from China.....(HEy ,thanks ppprrrkkaaaa form =
prrrrhhdhdhdnnn,.....Don't neeeeeed you.....)....HEY, WHAT IF I LIVE TO =
BE 90????????....Will I disappear?No....You will make the japanese =
stuff....And I will be making weird shit that is so obvious but that =
only people who have lived can understand.....Wanna see my artist's =
statement(It hasn't changed).......(I believe in mel and David and TC =
and Tommy and TS and Joyce and TF(maybe B)....I got DH pieces in my =
house....Seen mel's turQ....I'd kiss TC'c ass)....(Haven't seen some =
people's pics!!!)
and Marta!!.....Her's holds my roach clip which was given to me by a =
friend!!!!)....
Been kinda a down month..........18 inch satellite platters slump =
and crack and potters soup sucks unless you like MIL blue what ever the =
hell that is.....
Got more pics to put up on the web of new stuff.....You gotta get =
drunk and lucky to see the old dusty pots.... Yahoo is like =
that.....Wanna see some new stuff?..............Give me some =
time....Life for the only full time fine artist in America is not =
easy....
Carla, I'm feeling real vunerable right now....Please ream me or I =
might feel better for days......I'm not MA...He didn't know, I do
Cheers brothers and sisters,
PAX,
Rush
"I only indulge when I've seen a snake, so I keep a supply of =
indulgences and snakes handy"
http://artimator.com
rush@artimator.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/texasceramics/
Artimator Galleries
2420 Briarwood Ln.
Carrollton, TX 75006
972-841-1857
jzclay2@AOL.COM on wed 27 aug 03
i am trying to find a bright yellow for cone 9-10 reduction. i have been
experimenting with degussa/cerdec but the color disappears. do these
stains not work well in reduction? i have tried using the stains at
between 5-15%. anyone have an idea or suggestion?
David Hendley on wed 27 aug 03
The cadmium inclusion stains do work at cone 10 reduction. Are you
sure you were using that and not a "regular" yellow stain? They do
not hold up.
You will know if you have cadmium inclusion stain because you
paid $40-50 a pound for it.
15% stain in a common celadon-type glaze (w/o the iron) will
absolutely give you yellow, 20% might be even brighter & better.
David Hendley
david@farmpots.com
http://www.farmpots.com
----- Original Message -----
> i am trying to find a bright yellow for cone 9-10 reduction. i have been
> experimenting with degussa/cerdec but the color disappears. do these
> stains not work well in reduction? i have tried using the stains at
> between 5-15%. anyone have an idea or suggestion?
Fredrick Paget on wed 27 aug 03
>i am trying to find a bright yellow for cone 9-10 reduction. i have been
>experimenting with degussa/cerdec but the color disappears. do these
>stains not work well in reduction? i have tried using the stains at
>between 5-15%. anyone have an idea or suggestion?
I have had good results in cone 10 reduction with Praseodymium
yellow Mason stain.
Cerdec yellow goes to a mustard color in reduction but is OK in oxidation.
Fred
--
From Fred Paget, Marin County, California, USA
fredrick@well.com
Edouard Bastarache on wed 27 aug 03
Try Harold McWhinnie's Woo Yellow.
It works, I tested it
Woo Yellow
Barium Carbonate 29.8
Dolomite 14.3
Custer Feldspar 39.3
EPK 8.3
Flint 8.3
Zircopax 17.9
Red Iron Oxide 3.5
Later,
"Ils sont fous ces Quebecois"
Edouard Bastarache
Irreductible Quebecois
Indomitable Quebeker
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
.
Ababi on thu 28 aug 03
You can also try to substitute the barium with 22.35 strontium carbonate
Ababi Sharon
Glaze addict
Kibbutz Shoval Israel
ababisha@shoval.org.il
http://members4.clubphoto.com/ababi306910
http://www.matrix2000.co.nz/Matrix%20Demo/Ababi.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Edouard
Bastarache
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 1:01 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: yellow
Try Harold McWhinnie's Woo Yellow.
It works, I tested it
Woo Yellow
Barium Carbonate 29.8
Dolomite 14.3
Custer Feldspar 39.3
EPK 8.3
Flint 8.3
Zircopax 17.9
Red Iron Oxide 3.5
Later,
"Ils sont fous ces Quebecois"
Edouard Bastarache
Irreductible Quebecois
Indomitable Quebeker
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
.
________________________________________________________________________
______
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
David Beumee on thu 28 aug 03
8/26/03 11:24:06 PM, jzclay2@AOL.COM wrote:
>i am trying to find a bright yellow for cone 9-10 reduction. i have been
>experimenting with degussa/cerdec but the color disappears. do these
>stains not work well in reduction? i have tried using the stains at
>between 5-15%. anyone have an idea or suggestion?
I am getting a bright yellow glaze using 12% Ferro 239416
(Degussa/Cerdec) Yellow pigment. I have had the glaze tested for
cadmium release and it is safe for using for food surfaces.
I fire to cone 10-11 in reduction.
C98E cone 10-11 reduction, David Beumee
10 EPK
19 Whiting
19 silica ( I use Imsil A-25)
38 Custer
14 talc
add : 12% Ferro 239416 Yellow pigment
David Beumee
Earth Alchemy Pottery
Lafayette, CO
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
Ron Roy on tue 2 sep 03
A very unstable glaze, short of silica, high expansion (will craze) and
over supplied with barium oxide.
Clearly not suitable for any surfaces that will come in contact with food.
It will change colour when used in certain ways - storing acidic food for
instance.
And for those of you who are relying on pot sales for your income - one of
those glazes that will drive customers away.
If this glaze is being used in a co-op studio or in a school situation -
any where where potters choose by how the glaze looks rather than it's
chemistry it should be labled - Toxic ingredients - DO NOT use as a liner
glaze.
The law states it should also have a scull and cross bones on the lable.
RR
>Try Harold McWhinnie's Woo Yellow.
>It works, I tested it
>
>Woo Yellow
>
>Barium Carbonate 29.8
>Dolomite 14.3
>Custer Feldspar 39.3
>EPK 8.3
>Flint 8.3
>
>Zircopax 17.9
>Red Iron Oxide 3.5
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
Edouard Bastarache on tue 2 sep 03
Ron,
sorry on two (2) counts:
1-It does not craze, I tested it in a few years ago
just to see what a Woo Yellow would look like.
2-Bariun is not regulated, even in the Old Europe
(dixit Rumsfeld, I am starting to like his expression);
Smart sits on the Common Market's committee for
the safety of glazes and packaging systems (any kind)
used to store foodstuffs, even out there only these two(2)
regulated.
Barium is not a cumulative toxicant such as lead and
cadmium. To visualize this compare the half-life of
barium to the one of lead:
"Barium Half-Life:
The biological half-life of barium varies between 2 and 20 hours. Absorbed
barium is mainly deposited in bones, which accounts for 93% of the body
burden in man. It is mainly excreted in feces and a small part (1 to 10%) in
urine."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------- "Lead Half-life :
1-In the adult, blood lead half-life is approximately 1 month.
2-The half-life in soft tissues (such as central and peripheral nervous
systems, the liver,
kidneys and muscles) is approximately 40 to 60 days.
3-The half-life in the bone compartment is approximately 20 to 30 years
4-The whole body lead half-life depends on the body burden, which itself is
related
to the duration of exposure of workers."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------
So, keep the skeleton in your closet.
"Ils sont fous ces Quebecois"
Edouard Bastarache
Irreductible Quebecois
Indomitable Quebeker
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Roy
To:
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 1:55 AM
Subject: Re: yellow
> A very unstable glaze, short of silica, high expansion (will craze) and
> over supplied with barium oxide.
>
> Clearly not suitable for any surfaces that will come in contact with food.
> It will change colour when used in certain ways - storing acidic food for
> instance.
>
> And for those of you who are relying on pot sales for your income - one of
> those glazes that will drive customers away.
>
> If this glaze is being used in a co-op studio or in a school situation -
> any where where potters choose by how the glaze looks rather than it's
> chemistry it should be labled - Toxic ingredients - DO NOT use as a liner
> glaze.
>
> The law states it should also have a scull and cross bones on the lable.
>
> RR
>
>
> >Try Harold McWhinnie's Woo Yellow.
> >It works, I tested it
> >
> >Woo Yellow
> >
> >Barium Carbonate 29.8
> >Dolomite 14.3
> >Custer Feldspar 39.3
> >EPK 8.3
> >Flint 8.3
> >
> >Zircopax 17.9
> >Red Iron Oxide 3.5
>
> Ron Roy
> RR#4
> 15084 Little Lake Road
> Brighton, Ontario
> Canada
> K0K 1H0
> Phone: 613-475-9544
> Fax: 613-475-3513
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Ron Roy on wed 3 sep 03
Barium is regulated in that it must be labed toxic in the powder form - and
so it should be. The data I copied to Clay Art clearly stated - 0.8 grams
is a lethal dose to average adults.
There was a post to clayart just a while ago about cats drinking barium
glaze water - one died and the other was recovering slowely.
My warning was to lable barium glaze containers as toxic - as they should be.
As for barium leaching from glazes - in the data I posted it clearly said -
those populations with elevated barium in drinking water had a higher
incident of cardiovascular problems.
How do you test for crazing - the glaze does have a high calculated
expansion rate and it will craze on some bodies - which will accelerate
leaching of course.
You say nothing about how stable the glaze is when treated with acidic acid
- did you test it - did it change colour?
RR
>sorry on two (2) counts:
>
>1-It does not craze, I tested it in a few years ago
>just to see what a Woo Yellow would look like.
>2-Bariun is not regulated, even in the Old Europe
>(dixit Rumsfeld, I am starting to like his expression);
>Smart sits on the Common Market's committee for
>the safety of glazes and packaging systems (any kind)
>used to store foodstuffs, even out there only these two(2)
>regulated.
>
>Barium is not a cumulative toxicant such as lead and
>cadmium. To visualize this compare the half-life of
>barium to the one of lead:
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
Edouard Bastarache on wed 3 sep 03
Ron,
A-Barium is regulated in that it must be labed toxic in the powder form -
and so it should be. The data I copied to Clay Art clearly stated - 0.8
grams
is a lethal dose to average adults.(RR)
"Acute intoxication by ingestion :
The lethal dose in man varies, according to barium compounds involved,
between 1 and 15 g. by ingestion. Acute intoxications are rare and generally
due to suicidal attempts with the chloride or the carbonate.
Some cases of collective food intoxications were reported, related to food
contamination, and to confusion between carbonate and barium sulphate at the
time of radiological examinations. Barium carbonate having been substituted
accidentally for potato flour during the preparation of sausages, 144 people
were poisoned in Israel in 1963. Two patients died."(EB)
B-There was a post to clayart just a while ago about cats drinking barium
glaze water - one died and the other was recovering slowely.(RR)
"Not surprising,
Uses :
-Rodenticide, insecticide, fungicide
(...)
-Etc."(EB)
C-My warning was to lable barium glaze containers as toxic - as they should
be.(RR)
Toxic ingredients - DO NOT use as a liner glaze. The law states it should
also have a scull and cross bones on the lable. (RR, from his last post)
"OK for the containers of raw barium carbonate unless you want to drink
liquid barium glazes.It was understood by my friend Francine Lague, collegue
and toxicologist that you meant to put the "death symbol" on wares covered
by a barium glaze, hence my comment "keep the skeleton in your closet."(EB)
D-As for barium leaching from glazes - in the data I posted it clearly
said - those populations with elevated barium in drinking water had a higher
incident of cardiovascular problems.(RR)
"How do prove people eating from barium glazed wares will increase
significantly enough their barium body burden to cause this effect?
The study you cited recently goes as such: " An epidemiological study
was conducted by Brenniman and Levy in which human populations
ingesting 2 to 10 mg/L of barium in drinking water were compared to
a population ingesting 0 to 0.2 mg/L. No significant individual differences
were seen; however, a significantly higher mortality rate from all
combined cardiovascular diseases was observed with the higher
barium level in the 65+ age group."
I still have 3 years to go to join this age group, this conclusion does not
apply to younger age-groups.
Other authors you cited have found different results: "In the Wones et
al. study, human volunteers were given barium up to 10 mg/L in drinking
water for 10 weeks. No clinically significant effects were observed.
In the sources I searched in Occupational & Environmental Medicine,
cardiovascular problems were not specified, except for hypertension
in the acute intoxication by ingestion."(EB)
How do you test for crazing - the glaze does have a high calculated
expansion rate and it will craze on some bodies - which will accelerate
leaching of course.
You say nothing about how stable the glaze is when treated with acidic
acid- did you test it - did it change colour?(RR)
"As I said I tested this recipe to see what Woo Yellow would look like,
the name was very exotic and I liked it. But, I still do not know the
meaning
of Woo. Maybe Lee Love could help.
I test a lot of glazes by shear curiosity and do not intend to make a book
out of them. I usually leave my glaze tests (3½ inch bottles) on a shelf for
a
few months before I check them for surface flaws. I use a lens I have
in my office to remove ocular foreign bodies.
If I do not use regulated minerals in my glazes (lead and cadmium), I do
not check for leaching, I abide by the law.."(EB)
Later,
"Ils sont fous ces Quebecois"
Edouard Bastarache
Irreductible Quebecois
Indomitable Quebeker
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
David Hendley on thu 4 sep 03
Edouard, Woo Yellow is named for Marie Woo, a well-known
American educator and potter. She is older, but as far as I know,
still active, as I saw her at NCECA a couple of years ago.
As for the glaze Woo Yellow, I personally would not have
it in my pottery studio. There is just no good reason to have such
large amounts of barium carbonate in a glaze.
As Ron Roy said, the glaze is seriously low in silica for a cone
10 glaze. Of course, the proof is in the testing, but I can say,
from looking at the unity formula, that I am close to 100% certain
that the glaze would craze on my claybody and just about any
claybody I have ever used.
The combination of probable crazing and high levels of barium
would keep me from even testing this glaze for possible use.
David Hendley
david@farmpots.com
http://www.farmpots.com
----- Original Message -----
"As I said I tested this recipe to see what Woo Yellow would look like,
the name was very exotic and I liked it. But, I still do not know the
meaning
of Woo. Maybe Lee Love could help.
I test a lot of glazes by shear curiosity and do not intend to make a book
out of them. I usually leave my glaze tests (3½ inch bottles) on a shelf for
a
few months before I check them for surface flaws. I use a lens I have
in my office to remove ocular foreign bodies.
If I do not use regulated minerals in my glazes (lead and cadmium), I do
not check for leaching, I abide by the law.."(EB)
Ababi on thu 4 sep 03
In order to keep peace in the Canadian potters community let me offer at
least in this case to replace the barium with strontium carb. 0.75 of
the evil carbonate!
Ababi Sharon
Glaze addict
Kibbutz Shoval Israel
ababisha@shoval.org.il
http://members4.clubphoto.com/ababi306910
http://www.matrix2000.co.nz/Matrix%20Demo/Ababi.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Edouard
Bastarache
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 1:37 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: yellow
Ron,
A-Barium is regulated in that it must be labed toxic in the powder form
-
and so it should be. The data I copied to Clay Art clearly stated - 0.8
grams
is a lethal dose to average adults.(RR)
"Acute intoxication by ingestion :
The lethal dose in man varies, according to barium compounds involved,
between 1 and 15 g. by ingestion. Acute intoxications are rare and
generally
due to suicidal attempts with the chloride or the carbonate.
Some cases of collective food intoxications were reported, related to
food
contamination, and to confusion between carbonate and barium sulphate at
the
time of radiological examinations. Barium carbonate having been
substituted
accidentally for potato flour during the preparation of sausages, 144
people
were poisoned in Israel in 1963. Two patients died."(EB)
B-There was a post to clayart just a while ago about cats drinking
barium
glaze water - one died and the other was recovering slowely.(RR)
"Not surprising,
Uses :
-Rodenticide, insecticide, fungicide
(...)
-Etc."(EB)
C-My warning was to lable barium glaze containers as toxic - as they
should
be.(RR)
Toxic ingredients - DO NOT use as a liner glaze. The law states it
should
also have a scull and cross bones on the lable. (RR, from his last post)
"OK for the containers of raw barium carbonate unless you want to drink
liquid barium glazes.It was understood by my friend Francine Lague,
collegue
and toxicologist that you meant to put the "death symbol" on wares
covered
by a barium glaze, hence my comment "keep the skeleton in your
closet."(EB)
D-As for barium leaching from glazes - in the data I posted it clearly
said - those populations with elevated barium in drinking water had a
higher
incident of cardiovascular problems.(RR)
"How do prove people eating from barium glazed wares will increase
significantly enough their barium body burden to cause this effect?
The study you cited recently goes as such: " An epidemiological study
was conducted by Brenniman and Levy in which human populations
ingesting 2 to 10 mg/L of barium in drinking water were compared to
a population ingesting 0 to 0.2 mg/L. No significant individual
differences
were seen; however, a significantly higher mortality rate from all
combined cardiovascular diseases was observed with the higher
barium level in the 65+ age group."
I still have 3 years to go to join this age group, this conclusion does
not
apply to younger age-groups.
Other authors you cited have found different results: "In the Wones et
al. study, human volunteers were given barium up to 10 mg/L in drinking
water for 10 weeks. No clinically significant effects were observed.
In the sources I searched in Occupational & Environmental Medicine,
cardiovascular problems were not specified, except for hypertension
in the acute intoxication by ingestion."(EB)
How do you test for crazing - the glaze does have a high calculated
expansion rate and it will craze on some bodies - which will accelerate
leaching of course.
You say nothing about how stable the glaze is when treated with acidic
acid- did you test it - did it change colour?(RR)
"As I said I tested this recipe to see what Woo Yellow would look like,
the name was very exotic and I liked it. But, I still do not know the
meaning
of Woo. Maybe Lee Love could help.
I test a lot of glazes by shear curiosity and do not intend to make a
book
out of them. I usually leave my glaze tests (3=BD inch bottles) on a =
shelf
for
a
few months before I check them for surface flaws. I use a lens I have
in my office to remove ocular foreign bodies.
If I do not use regulated minerals in my glazes (lead and cadmium), I do
not check for leaching, I abide by the law.."(EB)
Later,
"Ils sont fous ces Quebecois"
Edouard Bastarache
Irreductible Quebecois
Indomitable Quebeker
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________
______
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Ron Roy on sat 6 sep 03
Hello again Edouard,
I can ask - how do you prove there is no adverse affect.
How do we prove that there is no danger to a 1 pound fetus. Should be at
least not warn expectant mothers that there is a poison leaching out of a
glaze?
I simply would not use materials in a liner glaze that I know or suspect or
have reason to believe - that those materials might have adverse affects on
human health - unless the glaze was at least relatively stable. It is not a
question of the law - it is a question of morality.
Woo Yellow is a grossly unstable glaze - it has 30% barium Carb. in it -
there is no question in my mind - I do not know if it is a danger to anyone
- I do know enough to think it might be - what else do I have to know?
On top of all this - the glaze will change colour when in contact with
acidic food, it will change colour, it is a matte glaze that will mark with
cutlery, and it will sound awful when cutlery is dragged across it - and I
think it will craze on most bodies as well - I will do a test on my next
kiln load and report back with the results.
On another note - Yes - young and the olds are always at greater risk - so
are you suggesting we label certain things as off limits to them?
RR
>"How do prove people eating from barium glazed wares will increase
>significantly enough their barium body burden to cause this effect?
>The study you cited recently goes as such: " An epidemiological study
>was conducted by Brenniman and Levy in which human populations
>ingesting 2 to 10 mg/L of barium in drinking water were compared to
>a population ingesting 0 to 0.2 mg/L. No significant individual differences
>were seen; however, a significantly higher mortality rate from all
>combined cardiovascular diseases was observed with the higher
>barium level in the 65+ age group."
>Edouard Bastarache
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
| |
|
