Gavin Stairs on thu 10 oct 02
At 01:34 AM 10/10/2002 +0100, Past Southwood wrote:
> Hallo John,
> Personally, I reckon Leach would have had artists statements coming out of
>his ears and Hamada would'nt have dreamed of such an ego, they were just his
>pots. ...
This is a strange idea about Hamada. He was fully aware of his position in
the scheme of things, and I'm sure he would not have been reticent about
his pots and their position in the firmament of pottery. He priced them
way up there because he knew they were worth it. He sold out whole kiln
loads at the kiln openings. This was a savvy businessman who knew what was
what.
It is a grave error to believe that a person who is reflective and
practices self-cultivation must be self abasing. After the ego is
conquered, it does not go away. It remains as the perfect servant.
Hamada did not mistake himself for a Korean pieceworker. He knew that he
was a highly educated aesthete who made pots for the collector, not for the
rice bowl market.
Gavin
Gavin Stairs on thu 10 oct 02
Dear Chris,
Thanks for replying to my post on Hamada. I have read about him, though
I've never met him. I know he had to struggle as a young man. So do we
all. I also know that he and other mingei people have studied the Korean
work. I know that his personal collection held a great many pieces by what
we might call "unknown craftsmen".
Korea holds a strange place in the iconography of Japan. While much of the
culture that traditional Japanese revere came from China through Korea, the
country itself and the craftsmen of Korea who worked there on export
merchandise as well as those who migrated to Japan to work in the
underclass there are looked down on to some extent. Part of the mingei and
teaist reverence for the "unknown craftsman" stems from reaction to this
prejudice. It is a contrast, chiaroscuro, to borrow a phrase from another
culture and discipline. The cultural origins of Hamada and his
contemporaries and colleagues were complex. The teaist esthetic from which
mingei arose is one of a complex balance of rustic, rude and extreme
refinement. Hamada was a complex blend of modern rationalism, traditional
Japan, esthetics of tea and mingei, and personal cultivation based on the
several living spiritual traditions of Japan. I know nothing of what he
actually practiced of these disparate elements, but I can see the result in
his art and his statements. I do not mean to oversimplify him by this
short list of attributes.
Most countries that have reached a level of pre-eminence in their locality
develop the idea that they are the apex of civilization, while also looking
somewhat anxiously over their shoulders at their predecessors. Those who
have developed some appreciation of things as they are gradually drop this
pose, but it is often deeply embedded in their culture.
I also know a thing or two about the kind of discipline that lies at the
root of what Hamada became in his later life. If he accomplished anything
in the great task, and I suspect he did, then he was not egotistical;
merely realistic.
I stand by what I wrote. You have not grasped me correctly.
Gavin
At 05:47 PM 10/10/2002 -0700, Chris Rupp wrote:
>Gavin,
>You should really read "Hamada," by Bernard Leach. ...
Ric Swenson on thu 10 oct 02
I remember when F. Carlton Ball described his first meeting with Hamada in the 1950s in California...F.C. showed Hamada a selection of pottery by a number of promenent California potters and Hamada remarked something like..."Some of these pots look very nice...but they are not."
Grist for the mill.
Ric Swenson
Carl Finch on thu 10 oct 02
At 10:28 AM 10/10/02 -0400, you wrote:
>I remember when F. Carlton Ball described his first meeting with Hamada
>in the 1950s in California...F.C. showed Hamada a selection of pottery by
>a number of promenent California potters and Hamada remarked something
>like..."Some of these pots look very nice...but they are not."
Hooo, haaa! I love it!!
I can imagine Frank Lloyd Wright's making a similar comment about architecture.
>Grist for the mill
As if any more were needed!
That remark is a 'keeper'--thanks for posting it, Ric!
--Carl
Chris Rupp on thu 10 oct 02
Gavin,
You should really read "Hamada," by Bernard Leach. Not only is it the best
book I have read about any potter, but it gives an insight into Hamada's
life, thoughts, beliefs, ego, etc... It was not until late in his life that
he became very well known and collected. Even then, he was VERY HUMBLE, VERY
OPEN, and VERY WILLING to share his life work and understanding of pots to
almost anyone who asked.
As far as his pricing, he says himself, that it took 30 years of working in
Mashiko before his work became any good and his prices only justified the 30
years of labor that went into making them.
You would also be very surprised as there is an entire section of the book
in which Hamada discusses Korean work. How much he appreciates it, how much
he values their skill, how he desires to make his own pots as free and
relaxed. On a trip to Korea he even bought an entire kiln load of a Korean
family's pots (3,000 pieces) and had them shipped back to Japan.
Gavin, I believe you are seriously mistaken about Hamada. Maybe you should
consider taking a break from the wheel for a while and curling up around an
EXCELLENT book about an amazing man and a good potter.
"I have not come alone to where I am now. It is due to the fact that there
were people around me who were first-rate. Because they were first-rate, I
feel I have come as far as I have." -Hamada
This sounds like a big ego to me!!!
If only we could all have the Mingei spirit,
Take Care,
Chris
from Sunny Santa Barbara.
>At 01:34 AM 10/10/2002 +0100, Past Southwood wrote:
>> Hallo John,
>> Personally, I reckon Leach would have had artists statements coming out
>>of
>>his ears and Hamada would'nt have dreamed of such an ego, they were just
>>his
>>pots. ...
>
>This is a strange idea about Hamada. He was fully aware of his position in
>the scheme of things, and I'm sure he would not have been reticent about
>his pots and their position in the firmament of pottery. He priced them
>way up there because he knew they were worth it. He sold out whole kiln
>loads at the kiln openings. This was a savvy businessman who knew what was
>what.
>
>It is a grave error to believe that a person who is reflective and
>practices self-cultivation must be self abasing. After the ego is
>conquered, it does not go away. It remains as the perfect servant.
>
>Hamada did not mistake himself for a Korean pieceworker. He knew that he
>was a highly educated aesthete who made pots for the collector, not for the
>rice bowl market.
>
>Gavin
>
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Pat Southwood on thu 10 oct 02
Hallo John,
Personally, I reckon Leach would have had artists statements coming out of
his ears and Hamada would'nt have dreamed of such an ego, they were just his
pots.
If they were good enough to survive his critical faculty then they were
probably strong enough to speak for themselves.
That clarity of purpose and simplicity of focus is, however seemingly
irrelevant in the increasingly artballs world in which we are forced to
exist.
Best Wishes
Pat.
No ideas about the others mind..........
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Jensen"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 10:20 PM
Subject: Artist statements
> In the course of my attempts to understand art, I've read a number of
> written works by artist of many kinds. Potters, painter, musicians. It
> has been a great help to me to gain insight in to the mind and working
> methods of those whose work I have deeply admired, and I'm grateful that
> these people saw fit to put down and make available their thoughts and
> insights.
> Still I wonder if such honored greats as Hamada, Matisse, Gauguin, or
> Leach, (to name just a few) ever wrote an "artist's statement" to go
> along with a show. My sense is that no-one would have asked for such a
> thing. My sense is that the artists mentioned would not have provided
> such a thing.
> But(of course), I could be wrong.
>
> John Jensen, Mudbug Pottery
> mudbug@toadhouse.com, www.toadhouse.com
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Pat Southwood on fri 11 oct 02
Dear Gavin,
I certainly did'nt mean to imply that Hamada might not having had an a.s.
was self abasing, more that the work and its maker were a strong enough
statement in themselves.
Best.
Pat.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gavin Stairs"
To:
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 6:28 AM
Subject: Re: Artist statements ,Hamada etc.
> At 01:34 AM 10/10/2002 +0100, Past Southwood wrote:
> > Hallo John,
> > Personally, I reckon Leach would have had artists statements coming out
of
> >his ears and Hamada would'nt have dreamed of such an ego, they were just
his
> >pots. ...
>
> This is a strange idea about Hamada. He was fully aware of his position
in
> the scheme of things, and I'm sure he would not have been reticent about
> his pots and their position in the firmament of pottery. He priced them
> way up there because he knew they were worth it. He sold out whole kiln
> loads at the kiln openings. This was a savvy businessman who knew what
was
> what.
>
> It is a grave error to believe that a person who is reflective and
> practices self-cultivation must be self abasing. After the ego is
> conquered, it does not go away. It remains as the perfect servant.
>
> Hamada did not mistake himself for a Korean pieceworker. He knew that he
> was a highly educated aesthete who made pots for the collector, not for
the
> rice bowl market.
>
> Gavin
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
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