Janet Kaiser on sun 13 oct 02
Vince, "There are non so blind as they who do not want to see".
You cannot understand because you have decided to dwell upon a very narrow
field of experience and reference. You, your teachers, your peers, your
family, your children, your students... All ordinary, middle-class,
literate, with educational and social advantages... High achievers across
the board. Yes, like everyone else on this list: we are all articulate and
privileged people... The PPs of this world.
It should not, however, blind any one PP to the problems of those less
fortunate, nor should we dismiss their problems because we either cannot
empathise at any level nor even try to understand their position. Inability
to communicate is a very real disadvantage in this world, especially when
faced with inflexible attitudes towards poor or non-communicators. But a
great many suffer to greater or lesser degrees, as testified by the numbers
who have responded on and off-list. Most PPs grow out of the non-verbal,
non-communication attitude of adolescence, but others remain taciturn
throughout life.
Not only do I have regular contact with people who have flunked the
requirements of "the establishment" and have been branded "non-achievers",
but I have been interested in so-called "outsider art" and "art brut" for
many years. These artists are at the other end of the spectrum from the
PPs. Some cannot write their own name, let alone string a sentence
together. Some do not talk although there is nothing physically or
intellectually "wrong" and others never appear in public because society
cannot deal with their "abnormalities", whether physical or behavoural.
Many have been institutionalised because of mental or learning
disabilities.
Naturally, there are many different "levels" between these two extremes...
Some of us (including your good self) have been sincerely trying hard to
find and suggest ways around dealing with the strict requirements of
various institutions (all PP set and led) for those who are ill-equipped to
do so on their own. Fine if you do not understand or are not willing to
even try to understand that a "simple honest statement" is not achievable
by some individuals. But I personally find your condescension is really
hurtful, not to say demeaning to all those who "suffer" from the arrogance
of PPs in this and other ways.
Furthermore it is also within the right of otherwise perfectly capable PPs
like Kathi LeS, to refuse to partake in what they perceive to be the
contrived conventions of "the establishment". Their choice. I personally do
not necessarily agree, but that is neither here nor there. What I object to
more than anything, is the unwillingness to see and appreciate every
possible point of view and outright dismissal of those who are not
conforming, as being lacking in some important way. It is intellectual
snobbishness and I deplore all snobs.
Sincerely
Janet Kaiser
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
>Janet wrote:
>"Come on Vince! You must know exactly why! Many people who make pots are
>not
>even talkative, never mind good at expressing themselves in writing. It is
>not paranoia, just great humility and shyness most of the time. If forced
>to
>write, they would prefer to write about anything on this planet except
>themselves and their own work."
>
>Vince wrote:
>Once again, I do not see the issue. I appreciate humility and modesty,
but
>why should anyone hesitate to write a few honest, heartfelt sentences or
>paragraphs about their work? This is not hard stuff for anyone, and the
>perception that it is such a challenge baffles me.
>Janet wrote:
>"Ah, but Vince, there are those who do not feel either happy or
comfortable
>verbalising... Are you saying if they do not attempt to "discuss" their
>work in words, it is not good work? Or if they choose not to verbalise
they
>are lacking in some way? That is the tenor of what you say and many will
>have cause to find that does not make sense either."
>
>Vince wrote:
>You make some amazing leaps in interpreting my words. Please do not take
>offense from this, but I am not going to answer your first question,
>because it has nothing to do with anything I said and is unnecessary.
****************************************
Janet Kaiser
The Chapel of Art =95 Capel Celfyddyd
8 Marine Crescent, Criccieth LL52 0EA, Wales, UK
Tel: 01766-523570 URL: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
vince pitelka on mon 14 oct 02
Janet Kaiser wrote:
"Vince, "There are non so blind as they who do not want to see".
You cannot understand because you have decided to dwell upon a very narrow
field of experience and reference. You, your teachers, your peers, your
family, your children, your students... All ordinary, middle-class,
literate, with educational and social advantages... High achievers across
the board. Yes, like everyone else on this list: we are all articulate and
privileged people... The PPs of this world."
Dear Janet -
I apologize in advance for being so stubborn about this, but as you can see,
I have very strong feelings about this.
With all due respect, your statement above is a bit condescending and
presumptious. It is apparent that you really do not know much about me at
all. At the Appalachian Center for Craft I teach in an extremely
non-traditional academic setting, with many non-traditional students who
could not get into a normal university BFA program. I won't go into the
details, but you get the idea. Our advanced students ALL write artist's
statements. Some struggle with it a lot, and they are usually the ones who
get the most out of it.
And remember that I was a studio potter for ten years before I went to
graduate school. I had to write artist's statements then, and many people I
knew had to do it, and we sure as hell did not learn how to write one in my
undergraduate years at Humboldt state. We learned a lot about ourselves and
our own work by writing artist's statements.
So, what you say simply ain't true at all, not one bit. The whole artist's
statement phenomenon is something I have observed and studied over a very
wide spectrum of artists and craftspeople from all walks of life, all levels
of our society. As I said, there is no artist for whom an artist's
statement is impossible, for whom it is not an extremely good exercise, for
whom it is not a valuable learning experience.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Janet Kaiser on tue 15 oct 02
Vince
Sorry to upset you, however, I am equally passionate on this subject and
repeat my assertion, that you are staying within extremely narrow
parameters and appear very inflexible. If you feel that you (and your
colleagues) "have to be cruel to be kind", fine. If you insist that forcing
your students to make statements about their art is good for them however
painful or tormenting, that's fine too. They will all have to jump through
the hoops of your faculty and school's making... Fine and dandy. That is
part of them fulfilling the requirements set by the institution/s you and
others work for... A structure and construct. A necessary part of the
paperchase as it has evolved over the years.
Please understand, I do not deny that writing an artist's statement is a
valuable exercise for many outside of a formal learning environment. But
please knock off dictating to everyone here on clay art, that they also
have to fulfill the exact same requirements, that it is going to do them
good and that you do not understand why they are incapable, cannot, do not
want to or just plain refuse to comply. It may or may not be their choice,
but it is neither your job nor mine to preach to anyone. We can cajole,
coax, encourage and generally be as helpful as possible, but dictating
this, that and the other is definitely condescending and presumptuous. It
steps over the line.
It is so counter-productive, I am surprised a teacher of your calibre and
experience does not understand, is not more sympathetically attuned to the
voices heard on clay art, let alone those who are not part of this forum.
Those individuals and outsiders who have no voice, just a very strong urge
to be creative, would not be helped by being brow-beaten into fulfilling
academic requirements beyond their intellectual ability. It would torment
and damage them. Surely you do not want to be accused of mental cruelty?
I repeat: you are a PP. Does not matter how you achieved that status or
where you came from, just as it is irrelevant how all the others on Clay
Art arrived at whatever stage they are along life's wondrous path. However,
it is not our role to dictate how others should behave or what is good for
their intellectual or artistic development. It is much more gracious to
allow each to follow his/her own path through life without indulging in
jurisdiction and judgement.
Guidance is one thing, but outright dictatorship never did any good. I
prefer to respect the needs of individuals and work with them, rather than
make general, sweeping demands which can be painful and could be damaging.
You may think I am wrong, but equally, I believe you are overstating an
inflexible position.
Sincerely
Janet Kaiser
The Chapel of Art =95 Capel Celfyddyd
8 Marine Crescent, Criccieth LL52 0EA, Wales, UK
Tel: 01766-523570 URL: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
Hendrix, Taylor J. on wed 16 oct 02
You two are reminding me of the famous (for the colonies at least) =
battle between the Monitor and the Merrimac. Plug away you two! :)
Taylor
-----Original Message-----
From: Janet Kaiser [mailto:janet@THE-COA.ORG.UK]
Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 8:51 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: We are all PPs (was: artists' statements)
Vince
At this point, most good Clay arters would shrug, roll over and play =
dead.
But you know me... For better or for worse!
ETC.
vince pitelka on wed 16 oct 02
Janet wrote:
"Sorry to upset you, however, I am equally passionate on this subject and
repeat my assertion, that you are staying within extremely narrow
parameters and appear very inflexible. If you feel that you (and your
colleagues) "have to be cruel to be kind", fine. If you insist that forcing
your students to make statements about their art is good for them however
painful or tormenting, that's fine too. They will all have to jump through
the hoops of your faculty and school's making... Fine and dandy. That is
part of them fulfilling the requirements set by the institution/s you and
others work for... A structure and construct. A necessary part of the
paperchase as it has evolved over the years."
Janet -
It takes a lot to get me upset about anything, but it does bother me a bit
that you seem to misinterpret me to this degree. You keep making this sound
worse, and I am baffled as to what could motivate you to do so. I am a
demanding teacher, but I am kind and patient in my methods. The concepts of
being "cruel to be kind," "forcing my students," "brow beating," "mental
cruelty," or making them "jump through hoops" are foreign to me. I do not
need to do any of those things, in the classroom or on this discussion list.
It seems very odd that you would make such assertions and statements.
It should go without saying that in any structured educational program there
have to be specific, sequenced requirements. Is that being "cruel to be
kind" or forcing students to "jump through hoops?" Of course not. Just
about every art instructor and art program at every level has discovered the
value of having students write artist's statements, because we know how
important it is for every artist to understand in some sort of terms what it
is they do, how they do it, and why they do it. We all know from long
experience how valuable this is for the artist and for the people who view
his/her work. It doesn't mean that the artist has to explain the work to
death or pick it apart.
I appreciate your acknowledgment that writing an artist's statement is a
valuable exercise for artists outside formal learning environments. My
contention is that the concept of an artist's statement has been badly
abused by a small percentage of artists who misuse and abuse what should be
a clear and simple process. In order to "clear its name," it will take a
lot of work by those who believe strongly in the artist's statement as a
valuable tool. That is what I am doing in this dialogue.
I am not holding on to this point of view so tenuously because it is
something I am fixated on or am trying to force on anyone. I am holding on
to it because it is a highly effective professional practice for all artists
at all levels.
You are so articulate, and you have such wisdom on most things regarding
clay and life. I do not agree with you regarding this issue. We are both
stubborn, and that stubbornness is born of long experience and commitment in
what we do as a passion and a profession. Whatever I express on Clayart
comes from that experience and commitment. It really is as simple as that.
When I understand something as clearly as I understand this issue, I do tend
to hold on to it pretty tightly. It is a shame that I cannot always
articulate things as clearly as I see them in my mind.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Janet Kaiser on thu 17 oct 02
Vince
At this point, most good Clay arters would shrug, roll over and play dead.
But you know me... For better or for worse!
Concentrating on just one part of a carefully written post is what is
skewing the issue and the perspective here. Forgive me, but, you remind me
of a friend who reads the first chapter of a book and then the last only.
They then will talk at length about the crappy story line.
Let me repeat my position quietly and slowly without any heat, hyperbole or
hidden meaning: It is not appropriate or fair to expect EVERYONE to be able
to fulfill the task of writing an artist's statement.
Correct me if I am wrong, yet the tenor of your posts is that everyone is
(1) capable and (2) should write one (3) for their own good?
My use of the personal pronoun has naturally not confined to you alone
throughout this discussion. There can be no doubt that you are doing a fine
job in a caring and meaningful way, as testified by many of your students.
But it remains within a specific environment and within the structures
imposed by external circumstances. The curriculum. Or the course
description for workshops... Whatever. There naturally has to be a
structure.
What I do not understand, is your reluctance to admit that there are
individuals and whole groups of people who cannot be part of that world. In
one of my earlier posts, I referred to Outsider Art and Art Brut. Many of
those artists are incapable of communicating verbally. They have been given
the opportunity of expressing themselves through their art, but many others
have never been lucky enough to explore this avenue of communication with
the rest of us. They sadly remain non-communicators at all levels.
There is a second group: all those practising artists who do not wish to
expose themselves or their reasons for making what they do to others...
That is their choice and prerogative. I cannot find it in my heart to
condemn them for that and from years of personal experience is has always
proven counter-productive. Artist's block is just one symptom.
Just as a matter of interest: If you as an educator demand a statement, it
is right and appropriate because it is part of any course. However, if as a
gallerist, I demand one from every artist and maker submitting work, I
would find that some artists/makers simply would not exhibit. It is as
simple as that. The difference being at the end of the day, you will be
considered a good educator and I will be just another unjustly demanding or
just plain awkward gallerist!
I have to accept and honour every decision an artist/maker chooses to make
and work with them on their terms, whilst trying not to compromise the
integrity of my own work. Although you do not see it that way, you as and
educator actually have far greater powers of coercion no matter how patient
and understanding you personally are in getting results. That makes me see
your position in quite a different light.
You are not able to put yourself either in my shoes, nor those of
individuals who either (1) cannot or (2) choose not to make a simple
statement about themselves and their work. This is not a black and white
world, however much we would like it to be. There are no cut and dried
solutions. But it is always helpful to try to understand that not everyone
can or wishes to fulfill our exacting standards, especially in areas
outside our immediate control and influence.
Now... I hope you are less upset, bothered and bewildered? It is not my
intention to make anything sound worse in any way! Just an attempt to
clarify how our own perspective can be narrow when seen through the eyes of
others. The "take" on any subject depends on the individual and their own
circumstances, not just the spoken word.
Sincerely
Janet Kaiser
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
On 16/10/02 at 12:28 vince pitelka wrote:
>Janet wrote:
>"Sorry to upset you, however, I am equally passionate on this subject and
>repeat my assertion, that you are staying within extremely narrow
>parameters and appear very inflexible. If you feel that you (and your
>colleagues) "have to be cruel to be kind", fine. If you insist that
forcing
>your students to make statements about their art is good for them however
>painful or tormenting, that's fine too. They will all have to jump through
>the hoops of your faculty and school's making... Fine and dandy. That is
>part of them fulfilling the requirements set by the institution/s you and
>others work for... A structure and construct. A necessary part of the
>paperchase as it has evolved over the years."
>
>Janet -
>It takes a lot to get me upset about anything, but it does bother me a bit
>that you seem to misinterpret me to this degree. You keep making this
sound
>worse, and I am baffled as to what could motivate you to do so. I am a
>demanding teacher, but I am kind and patient in my methods. The concepts
>of
>being "cruel to be kind," "forcing my students," "brow beating," "mental
>cruelty," or making them "jump through hoops" are foreign to me. I do not
>need to do any of those things, in the classroom or on this discussion
>list.
>It seems very odd that you would make such assertions and statements.
>
>It should go without saying that in any structured educational program
>there
>have to be specific, sequenced requirements. Is that being "cruel to be
>kind" or forcing students to "jump through hoops?" Of course not. Just
>about every art instructor and art program at every level has discovered
>the
>value of having students write artist's statements, because we know how
>important it is for every artist to understand in some sort of terms what
>it
>is they do, how they do it, and why they do it. We all know from long
>experience how valuable this is for the artist and for the people who view
>his/her work. It doesn't mean that the artist has to explain the work to
>death or pick it apart.
>
>I appreciate your acknowledgment that writing an artist's statement is a
>valuable exercise for artists outside formal learning environments. My
>contention is that the concept of an artist's statement has been badly
>abused by a small percentage of artists who misuse and abuse what should
be
>a clear and simple process. In order to "clear its name," it will take a
>lot of work by those who believe strongly in the artist's statement as a
>valuable tool. That is what I am doing in this dialogue.
>
>I am not holding on to this point of view so tenuously because it is
>something I am fixated on or am trying to force on anyone. I am holding
on
>to it because it is a highly effective professional practice for all
>artists
>at all levels.
>
>You are so articulate, and you have such wisdom on most things regarding
>clay and life. I do not agree with you regarding this issue. We are both
>stubborn, and that stubbornness is born of long experience and commitment
>in
>what we do as a passion and a profession. Whatever I express on Clayart
>comes from that experience and commitment. It really is as simple as
that.
>When I understand something as clearly as I understand this issue, I do
>tend
>to hold on to it pretty tightly. It is a shame that I cannot always
>articulate things as clearly as I see them in my mind.
>Best wishes -
>- Vince
Janet Kaiser
The Chapel of Art =95 Capel Celfyddyd
8 Marine Crescent, Criccieth LL52 0EA, Wales, UK
Tel: 01766-523570 URL: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
vince pitelka on fri 18 oct 02
Janet wrote:
"Correct me if I am wrong, yet the tenor of your posts is that everyone is
(1) capable and (2) should write one (3) for their own good?"
Janet -
Well . . . . no, not exactly. #1 and #3 are right, but it certainly is not
for me to say whether everyone SHOULD write one, and if, through poor choice
of languag it sounded like that, I apologize. In academia we are in a
position to require that our students write artist's statements, because we
know it will be a learning experience for them. A gallery director or
exhibition organizer is in a position to require a artist's statement,
because it is of tremendous value to them in representing the artist's work.
I am quite certain, based on personal experience, that every artist is fully
capable of composing an artist's statement appropriate to their art and
their intent, and that doing so will be a valuable experience for them and a
valuable service for viewers who seek more information about them and their
work.
You wrote:
"What I do not understand, is your reluctance to admit that there are
individuals and whole groups of people who cannot be part of that world. In
one of my earlier posts, I referred to Outsider Art and Art Brut. Many of
those artists are incapable of communicating verbally."
They are all part of "that world," which is, of course, the world of art and
craft. Whether through the written word, the spoken word, sign language, or
any other form of communication, every artist is capable of discussing their
work and their role as an artist. Again, the term "artist's statement" is a
rather generic term that carries some unfortunate unearned baggage in the
contemporary world of fine art/craft. My contentions are that any artist is
capable of communicating about him/herself and his/her work in a way that
will provide illumination beyond the artwork, and that this is a very good
thing.
You wrote:
"That is their choice and perogative. I cannot find it in my heart to
condemn them for that and from years of personal experience is has always
proven counter-productive. Artist's block is just one symptom."
Of course it is their perogative to avoid discussing themselves or their
work. I never said that anyone outside of academia or the formal art
exhibition world HAD to write an artist's statement, and I certainly never
condemned anyone outside of those venues for being unwilling to write one.
I've pretty much distilled my point down to a few paragraphs, which has been
my intent in the past few posts on this subject. I think we can agree to
respectfully disagree on this, before the Clayart membership collectively
decides to hire an international hit squad to do away with both of us.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
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